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2 minutes ago, Rydog said:

I'd be curious to hear confirmation from the devs as to whether Sense's cooldown is working as intended, simply because it is the only one of Jason's abilities that functions differently in that regard. Given that this basically negates the central feature of the +Sense and -Sense traits, this implementation strikes me as a bit confusing.

The nature of the way the ability works, a shorter cool down time does make sense in theory. Shorter use should means shorter cool down since it's a timed ability. But, since you don't necessarily need to use it constantly, an experienced Jason could "abuse" the cool down by only activating it for a few seconds at a time. This would essentially negate the +/- Sense traits, but only if you don't fully use up sense in one go. If anything it's just an oversight. The only way you could "fix" it is if sense required the same amount of time to recharge after each use, for each respective Jason.

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Cringing hard at this post. Sense is fine, it's working as intended and should stay. These "Jason is OP" posts are getting old especially with all the theoreticals

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Just now, DeltaVenom said:

Cringing hard at this post. Sense is fine, it's working as intended and should stay. These "Jason is OP" posts are getting old especially with all the theoreticals

Jason is definitely not OP.

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1 hour ago, Rydog said:

Jason is definitely not OP.

Sense is a Jason ability, people are saying it's OP and basically people have insisted upon it being removed or nerfed.. soooo?

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1 hour ago, DeltaVenom said:

Sense is a Jason ability, people are saying it's OP and basically people have insisted upon it being removed or nerfed.. soooo?

It's perhaps not explained well enough in its implementation, but it's necessary for Jason to find counselors. He has a lot of deficiencies in other areas though. This is definitely not the thing I would single out as problematic for him.

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16 hours ago, Campkill said:

There is no problem with sense. As it is now you can avoid it and a well trained team has the advantage in every game. 

Sense is not spammed. It's used as soon as it fills up. Nothing wrong with sense. 

 

Maybe there's not a problem with sense, but do you think that you can really avoid it? Unless you always stay out of it's range or use hiding spots, Jason will Sense by using it in quick bursts, completely avoiding a cooldown time and you will be seen. And that's even if you are fully composed, unafraid, crouched, etc. @Rydog has cleared this up a bit, but I don't everyone is on the same page yet.

I agree with you man. A well trained team can work together to survive, and sometimes can even have the upper hand on Jason. I believe Jason is meant to be, and should be OP, and he usually is. 

Sense is key to Jason, and it shouldn't go anywhere. The only thing that I want changed is the composure and stealth stats because they really don't help much in combating his ultimate power, Sense. I know you can use some perks like Low Profile/Level Headed for a slim chance of avoiding it. I know Stealth prevents noise pings (but honestly, most Jason players use these only as a back up ability) I feel these two stats need to actually do something, like make it harder for Jason to pick you up on Sense.

From the start, everyone was under the impression that these stats helped you not show up to Jason, especially because of how the stats are described in the game (the wording is iffy for stealth: Reduces the amount of noise generated and Jason's ability to sense). Myself and almost everyone else thought you could sneak around and avoid the big guy with characters like A.J and Jenny. She was my main, and I still use her a lot. But sadly I've realized that using A.J, and trying to rely on a stealth strategy to aid in group survival doesn't work as well like I thought it did because her high stats don't matter so much.

I could be wrong, but I don't think this thread was intended to be another "Jason is TOO FUCKING OP" one. I think people are just a little confused and ticked off because they are realizing Sense/Composure/Stealth work differently then we thought they did.

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Not trying dump in anyone's cheerios but people do realize that even if a Jason player uses sense for a short span of time and cancels the ability it still requires x amount of time to refresh. And depending upon the span of time that Jason used sense means it will take longer to regenerate the reaources of that ability back i.e. Uses say three quarters of ability now must wait to regain substantial amount of sense back because if he uses it again it is spent entirely and must wait even longer.

Sense isn't always a one pop shot. It'll give you an idea of where someone is or what they may be doing if you're close enough but just because Jason can use it doesn't mean he is guaranteed the kill or ruins the game. 

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14 minutes ago, MyNameisJason said:

Not trying dump in anyone's cheerios but people do realize that even if a Jason player uses sense for a short span of time and cancels the ability it still requires x amount of time to refresh. And depending upon the span of time that Jason used sense means it will take longer to regenerate the reaources of that ability back i.e. Uses say three quarters of ability now must wait to regain substantial amount of sense back because if he uses it again it is spent entirely and must wait even longer.

Sense isn't always a one pop shot. It'll give you an idea of where someone is or what they may be doing if you're close enough but just because Jason can use it doesn't mean he is guaranteed the kill or ruins the game. 

You just said what I want to say... There´s no cooldown avoidance.

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On 13/07/2017 at 2:46 AM, Rydog said:

I'd be curious to hear confirmation from the devs as to whether Sense's cooldown is working as intended, simply because it is the only one of Jason's abilities that functions differently in that regard. Given that this basically negates the central feature of the +Sense and -Sense traits, this implementation strikes me as a bit confusing.

I think that +Sense and -Sense are working as intend... It´s the time that it takes to recharge Sense ability, more or less faster. It takes time, even to a +Sense Jason to recharge his sense after a short sense activation and desactivation.

 

7 hours ago, PamelasSweater said:

No comment. I'm scared I'll get banned for saying anything. Have fun, fellows. I won't be back. I'll be playing the game.

You need to calm down and try to learn the way to deal with the situation (spawn next to a objective).
When this happens to me, I just crouch or walk without make noise... Jason can´t see me before Sense. I wait he place his traps and go to his next objective.

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Though I do believe Jason is OP there definitely shouldn't be anything done to sense or any of Jason's mechanics that I can think of right now.

If anything there just needs to be more things added for counselors to use. I'm lobbying for this real hard but I really think environmental interactions(one-time use of course) for the counselors should become a thing.

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On 7/11/2017 at 3:28 AM, havek said:

Edit: Sorry for being unclear, but I did not intend to make it seem like I wanted Jason nerfed. I want Jason to rely on another mechanic than sense to maintain his current level of power, and I also do NOT want sense completely removed! Possible changes: make stealth have a chance to avoid sense, longer cool downs for sense, much shorter range on sense. Of course these changes because they are essentially nerfs would need Jason to be buffed with possibly a new ability, but the only ability that doesn't fit into a horror game where you're trying to hide from a powerful killer is sense in its CURRENT STATE, not the entire sense ability.

 

See above @carnage4u. OP never intended this post to advocate for Jason being nerfed or sense being removed. @havek  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you agree with me that the stats of Stealth and Composure need a buff or re-work. As of now they don't seem to have any direct effect on his Sense ability even with the highest composure or stealth characters.

I think we can all agree Sense is KEY and shouldn't go anywhere..but should Jason's Sense work 100% of the time on counselors that are not in hiding spots, no matter their stealth or fear level?

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Sense is vital to Jason.  I would even argue that it's his most important ability.

If you can't find counselors, you can't kill them.

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ugh @havek why'd you have to choose the title you did for this thread?? lol

Everyone is just stating the obvious that Sense is the most important ability...

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On 2017-07-12 at 7:06 PM, DeltaVenom said:

Cringing hard at this post. Sense is fine, it's working as intended and should stay. These "Jason is OP" posts are getting old especially with all the theoreticals

Cringing hard at your post because it shows you didn't actually read my post and that you just read the title. Look again, I don't want Jason nerfed and don't want sense removed. I don't think he's OP I think sense in its current state makes the game less fun as a game where you try to be sneaky and hide behind a rock etc. You can't do that with any character even those with high stealth, leading to the conclusion that stealth is a pointless trait meaning stealth characters are worthless meaning there is no stealth meta in the game. Maybe you think adding stealth as a play style doesn't float your boat, fine. But at least give me the respect of reading my full post before commenting on it.

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11 hours ago, I ❤️ A.J. said:

Sense is vital to Jason.  I would even argue that it's his most important ability.

If you can't find counselors, you can't kill them.

I never said Sense should be removed from the game, please read my full post.

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11 hours ago, carnage4u said:

Sense is very important.

The thread is hilarious. 

What you seem to be implying is that you think I want sense removed from thr game. I do NOT want it removed, please read the full post.

 

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11 hours ago, Googoomuck said:

ugh @havek why'd you have to choose the title you did for this thread?? lol

Everyone is just stating the obvious that Sense is the most important ability...

I tried making a click bait title and it has worked in terms of views but has failed in terms of people actually reading the post. I rustled many people's jimmies with this title and people assuming what the content was. 10/10 would rustle again lol

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Step 1. Cry about sense range/dependability, ask for nerf, "possibly replaced with new ability" before edited.

Step 2. Get flamed because for a post that was too long it had nothing anecdotal and only personal opinion because he doesn't like Jason finding him when he's not even trying objectives he's just hiding under a bed.

 

Step 3. Retract everything and act like you weren't asking for a nerf so resort to personal attacks about somehow 10 people out of the 11 that read your post all got the same from your implications

 

Step 4. Try to act like you were "trolling" the whole time

 

Classic ?

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On 7/12/2017 at 11:13 AM, Ker Juice said:

@havek, how many hours do you currently have logged playing F13?  What level are you and do you have Jason set as your preference over the counselors?  

I currently have 8 days logged, level 56 (would be higher if not for disconnects & crashes), have Jason as my preference and can assure you Sense does not need a longer cooldown.  

My advice to you is to keep playing- you may change your mind later on when you start getting your ass handed to you by counselors who know what they are doing. All the Sense in the world means diddly squat against being kited with pocket knives, bats, and thick skinned.

I have 300 hours, jason set as preference but i love playing counselor too. I just don't play stealth characters. I don't think jason is OP its just that sense seems odd game design wise. Ultimately what the current game meta is one without stealth game play (in a survival horror game), which involves chad, vanessa, and repair characters as the best for this meta. The meta isn't terrible but I would be having a more variety of fun if sense worked differently, I feel I want another viable meta which is stealth, which we don't have because of the current sense. Jason is also lacking his own stealth meta because his music is so loud so its obvious he's nearby, i want possibilities for jason to be stealth early game too. I get my ass handed to me by counselors every now and then, and i'm all for buffing jason but sense isn't the way to do it, it feels like a very cheap method of a jason buff that undermines gameplay mechanics. Counter strike global offensive has more stealth gameplay than this game, and its a shooter.  Imagine a jason buff so that jason throwing knifes always hit if thrown in a characters general direction-that requires no skill and is boring. I want jasons to stand out as being really good if they can use their abilities well, I like testing my skill against players and standing out as a good player and seeing others stand out too.  I made a post a while back about have the option to take stealth as the number 2 ability and sense last, while still keeping the option for the original configuration, that way you can get your sense and i can get my stalk.

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5 hours ago, DeltaVenom said:

Step 1. Cry about sense range/dependability, ask for nerf, "possibly replaced with new ability" before edited.

Step 2. Get flamed because for a post that was too long it had nothing anecdotal and only personal opinion because he doesn't like Jason finding him when he's not even trying objectives he's just hiding under a bed.

 

Step 3. Retract everything and act like you weren't asking for a nerf so resort to personal attacks about somehow 10 people out of the 11 that read your post all got the same from your implications

 

Step 4. Try to act like you were "trolling" the whole time

 

Classic ?

1. Apparently when anyone criticizes the game they are crying? I think what you're trying to say is that I'm a bad player that wants an easier time in the game because of sense. The only thing sense means to me in this game is that i don't play high stealth characters, and that there is less fun for me in a play style of hiding from jason, which increases game complexity. It would be the same thing to say that jason players are crying about people wanting to nerf jason because they're not good players. I'm not 100% sure this is what you mean but "crying" makes it seem you think i'm just salty about getting caught by jason. Please explain further.

2. All opinions you make are personal opinions, it's just whether they are supported enough if they are good opinions or not. So apparently  I'm supposed to use someone elses personal opinion as my opinion so its not MY personal opinion? Maybe you can explain what you meant there.

I said jason's sense ability removed the hide and seek thrill from the game, but maybe you want me to more specific on that one ,that's fair, for example jason grabs you but you pocketknife him and hide behind a rock to juke him. You hear jason and decide to hide behind a house and try to look around corners to avoid him. With a longer sense cooldown and making stealth relevant to sense(right now it isn't), you can have a chance to fool jason about your location. I never said sense is OP or jason is OP. Sense takes the hide and seek thrill out of the game, that's what I said about sense.

Also, now you are making up stories about my motive for the post which are just made up personal attacks that i'm a a bad player. Where is your evidence that I hide under a bed the whole game as my play style?  This isn't a 4chan or reddit post where accusing someone of living in their mom's basement because they posted something someone finds cringy will get them 20 likes. Try again.

3. I didn't retract anything, sense takes the hide and seek thrill out of the game. My intention was to talk about sense in the way it takes the thrill out of the game for players playing a horror game, and it really DID end up seeming as a call for a nerf, not a call for a funner game. I added to my post within hours of making that mistake because my intentions were not explicitly stated. So saying that my title has failed to actually get people to read my post is a PERSONAL ATTACK? I'm not really sure what " personal attack" means to you, but after repeated posts of "don't remove sense" my assumption was that people were not actually reading my post. Apparently accusing non-specified people of not reading your entire post after seeing posts that misrepresented MY posts is a "personal attack". In that case I was personally attacked by these people that misrepresented my post with statements that are irrelevant to my post.

4. I'm not trolling, my intention wasn't to troll, and I never said i was trolling. I'm just amused by people thinking my post is one thing but its actually another. I was just amused that even days after my edit people continued to be outraged over a Jason nerf which isn't what i was vouching for. People trolled themselves, because what they posted spoke about nerfing sense or nerfing jason, when i went into specific detail that's not what I wanted to happen. These are people who were posting days after my post had been edited, which i edited hours after posting it at which point it had about 80 views. If people misread, don't read, or otherwise don't comprehend my post for some reason and I'm amused by it it doesn't mean I'm trolling, people are just being silly.

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On 7/13/2017 at 9:11 PM, PamelasSweater said:

No comment. I'm scared I'll get banned for saying anything. Have fun, fellows. I won't be back. I'll be playing the game.

What system?

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On 11.07.2017 at 10:28 AM, havek said:

First let me state a common misconception: stealth and composure have no effect on Jason's Sense ability detection. I was surprised as well when I first heard this. Source: rydog, just search him on the forums.

Anyways with that out of the way sense completely removed the hide and seek thrill out of the game because Jason essentially has wall hacks. He gets the ability very early meaning it's pointless to hide unless it's under a bed etc, then his sense will miss you pre-rage.Sense needs a way longer cool down so that people actually pay attention to noise pings, the only thing stealth is useful for. Or make it so stealth has a chance to avoid sense as well. Make high composure characters take longer to have an emotional outburst while they are hiding. It's silly already hearing a counsellor say" I hope he doesn't see me" out loud..  no one would do that, ever, lol.

Edit: Sorry for being unclear, but I did not intend to make it seem like I wanted Jason nerfed. I want Jason to rely on another mechanic than sense to maintain his current level of power, and I also do NOT want sense completely removed! Possible changes: make stealth have a chance to avoid sense, longer cool downs for sense, much shorter range on sense. Of course these changes because they are essentially nerfs would need Jason to be buffed with possibly a new ability, but the only ability that doesn't fit into a horror game where you're trying to hide from a powerful killer is sense in its CURRENT STATE, not the entire sense ability.

 

OH.MY.GOD ! havek,you are PERFECTLY RIGHT !!!! I totally agree that Sense,in its current state,removes the hide and seek thrill out of the game.Whenever I play as Jason I don't pay any attention to noise pings(which are,as you said,the only thing Stealth is useful for)....nor does anyone else.All I have to do is stick close to the objectives and activate Sense(unless Rage is active because then I can sense counselors no matter how far away they are). Stealth and Composure are indeed very useless right now,not to mention crouch walking.This is mainly because no Jason player relies on noise pings and even max Stealth/Composure do not prevent a counselor from glowing red(if in range).

I consider that the biggest problem is the range this ability has(more precisely,during Rage).I would suggest the following change:

The range of this ability should increase over time as normal,but in its final stage,it should only cover about 25-30% of the entire map.If the counselors are scared,the range will increase as normal(it may exceed that 25-30% in this case) and therefore they will still be detected more easily.In order to compensate,counselors will receive no Stealth bonus when Rage becomes active.Also,if that is still not enough,the range of the ability should increase much faster(for example after 7 minutes it should already cover 30% of the map),but not more than 30% in its final stage,unless the counselors are fearful.During Rage,the cabin where the counselors are hiding should still glow red  if Jason is close enough.Since Jason can morph,spam Sense from 5 to 5 seconds(if cancelled quickly enough) he is able to cover  the map quite quickly and will not be that difficult for him to find the counselors.

The main purposes for Sense,from my point of view should be: 1. To prevent counselors from hiding forever and 2.To help Jason detect nearby counselors.The fact that he can find you no matter where you are on the map(during Rage) gives you no chance of survival if you play as AJ or Deborah,who have low Stamina,Speed and rely only on their Stealth to avoid Jason.

Most of the time,the first characters to die are the ones who rely on Stealth and cannot run,while Vanessa who is really loud for example dies among the last ones.I have noticed this during many rounds,even when the stealthy characters were away from the objectives.If by any chance Jason sees a Deborah and runs after her,she will be most likely dead.

If Jason  relied mainly on noise pings to make an idea of where the counselors are and only use Sense when he is close,the Stealth,Composure stats and of course crouch walking would definitely become more viable.

I don't want Jason's Sense ability removed or "nerfed",I just want it to be balanced,to give stealthy characters a chance.The reduced range won't have such a big impact anyway since counselors will be close to objectives most of the time....not to mention that most characters are loud.

I don't know what is wrong with most people,why they want Sense to remain as it is now.havek's arguments entirely stated why it needs to be changed and were more than convincing(maybe most people haven't read his full post lol)

I really don't mind if Jason will be able to grab me or hit me with his weapon from a considerable distance(but in this case make dodging more effective as well cause I use it a lot and don't want it to become useless:D),nor if he can place multiple traps one above the other;Jason really needs these advantages but his Sense ability needs a change(I am talking about the range).

Sorry for being  sooo late :unsure:

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You don’t want sense nerfed but in essence changing the working dynamic to limit the sense ability in its current form is a nerf. You’re also ok with Gumby grabs and trap spamming..

Sense is fine the way it is. If you play as Jason (which you stated that you do) than you know that sense does not always “sense” a counselor. I can count more than one occasion, even in rage mode, where morphing all over the map and sensing did not indicate the counselor’s position in over 7 sense attempts.

Perhaps that is perk related but I have literally seen counselor’s in front of me and hit sense and watched them run through brush or thickets and they didn’t light up red. Even running and no noise pings but players want to see sense diminished when many of Jason’s mechanics aren’t that great at the moment. There are some very interesting and creative ideas in here but I’d rather see more improvements to what’s actually not workin than anything and than go from there. 

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