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First let me state a common misconception: stealth and composure have no effect on Jason's Sense ability detection. I was surprised as well when I first heard this. Source: rydog, just search him on the forums.

Anyways with that out of the way sense completely removed the hide and seek thrill out of the game because Jason essentially has wall hacks. He gets the ability very early meaning it's pointless to hide unless it's under a bed etc, then his sense will miss you pre-rage.Sense needs a way longer cool down so that people actually pay attention to noise pings, the only thing stealth is useful for. Or make it so stealth has a chance to avoid sense as well. Make high composure characters take longer to have an emotional outburst while they are hiding. It's silly already hearing a counsellor say" I hope he doesn't see me" out loud..  no one would do that, ever, lol.

Edit: Sorry for being unclear, but I did not intend to make it seem like I wanted Jason nerfed. I want Jason to rely on another mechanic than sense to maintain his current level of power, and I also do NOT want sense completely removed! Possible changes: make stealth have a chance to avoid sense, longer cool downs for sense, much shorter range on sense. Of course these changes because they are essentially nerfs would need Jason to be buffed with possibly a new ability, but the only ability that doesn't fit into a horror game where you're trying to hide from a powerful killer is sense in its CURRENT STATE, not the entire sense ability.

 

Edited by havek
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Stealth affects how much noise you make, that's all. The lower your stealth, the easier it is for him to detect you when you move. Early game and late game he'll be able to track you wherever you go if you play a low stealth character.

Composure affects the rate you gain fear. Higher composure characters take longer to get scared, and the more scared you are the easier it is for him to find you with sense. Basically, characters like Jenny can be outside in the dark for longer periods of time before Jason detects them. I've started playing Deborah recently and she gets scared so easily without my epic darkness fear reduction perk. Composure does indeed make a difference.

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1 minute ago, Kodiak said:

Stealth affects how much noise you make, that's all. The lower your stealth, the easier it is for him to detect you when you move. Early game and late game he'll be able to track you wherever you go if you play a low stealth character.

Composure affects the rate you gain fear. Higher composure characters take longer to get scared, and the more scared you are the easier it is for him to find you with sense. Basically, characters like Jenny can be outside in the dark for longer periods of time before Jason detects them. I've started playing Deborah recently and she gets scared so easily without my epic darkness fear reduction perk. Composure does indeed make a difference.

Kodiac the OP is right your conception of what fear does is not correct. Rydog did the clinical testing and it aligns with what happens every game aswell. Jump on top of an AJ and sense immediately she will flare up and there is no way she is already scared.

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Not what I've found. Don't forget that it's dependent on what time in the game it is. Pre-rage and post-rage have big differences on your ability to hide. Proximity to the character also does too. You can be very close to someone who doesn't have much fear and you'll detect them, but you try that from about 4-5 cabins down and see if you can still do it. The developers wouldn't code in a useless stat, it's just a bit misunderstood. 

Example: At the beginning of the game, sense won't detect anyone. Smash up a few power boxes and people start appearing. AJ's and Jenny's always appear last, and I've literally had Jenny characters a few feet in front of me and they haven't shown up on sense whilst being chased.

By the way, I don't think 'clinical' testing is the right application of the word lol.

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1 hour ago, Kodiak said:

Stealth affects how much noise you make, that's all. The lower your stealth, the easier it is for him to detect you when you move. Early game and late game he'll be able to track you wherever you go if you play a low stealth character.

Composure affects the rate you gain fear. Higher composure characters take longer to get scared, and the more scared you are the easier it is for him to find you with sense. Basically, characters like Jenny can be outside in the dark for longer periods of time before Jason detects them. I've started playing Deborah recently and she gets scared so easily without my epic darkness fear reduction perk. Composure does indeed make a difference.

I rarely use noise pings, I use sense because of the insane short cooldown, noise pings are a worse version of sense and are therfore practically useless.I have no trouble finding any "high stealth" or high composure characters. Press 2, wall hacks. I agree that you will gain fear faster with less composure but composure has nothing to do with the sense ability detecting you better or worse. I can see someone who is completely still with sense as long as I'm in range of sense which is the same for all characters.

 

1 hour ago, Kodiak said:

Not what I've found. Don't forget that it's dependent on what time in the game it is. Pre-rage and post-rage have big differences on your ability to hide. Proximity to the character also does too. You can be very close to someone who doesn't have much fear and you'll detect them, but you try that from about 4-5 cabins down and see if you can still do it. The developers wouldn't code in a useless stat, it's just a bit misunderstood. 

Example: At the beginning of the game, sense won't detect anyone. Smash up a few power boxes and people start appearing. AJ's and Jenny's always appear last, and I've literally had Jenny characters a few feet in front of me and they haven't shown up on sense whilst being chased.

By the way, I don't think 'clinical' testing is the right application of the word lol.

There is the level headed perk that can make Jenny not appear. Of course you won't see them 4 cabins down that's out of sense range, nothing to do with stealth or composure. Stealth reduces noise pings but I can still sense them anyways so it is useless through context of the game. Sense will detect anyone in range regardless of fear. Invite me to a private game and I can show you. Sense won't detect anyone early game because the first time you use it just through probability it's unlikely anyone is in range.

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19 minutes ago, havek said:

I rarely use noise pings, I use sense because of the insane short cooldown, noise pings are a worse version of sense and are therfore practically useless.I have no trouble finding any "high stealth" or high composure characters. Press 2, wall hacks. I agree that you will gain fear faster with less composure but composure has nothing to do with the sense ability detecting you better or worse. I can see someone who is completely still with sense as long as I'm in range of sense which is the same for all characters.

Noise pings can be a very useful way to get you within proximity range to successfully use sense. 

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28 minutes ago, Splatterhouse said:

Noise pings can be a very useful way to get you within proximity range to successfully use sense. 

I mean sure that's barely useful, people are going to be at the 3 main camp sites on each map. All the pings do is show me where I already expect the counsellors to be, at objectives which are the same areas as the 3 major house clumps. If everyone was AJ I'd still find them very quickly. Even if Jason doesn't see your noise ping he is extremely likely to just find you accidentally during Sense on a morph to a house clump. I've slaughters many AJs hiding behind a house thinking that stealth will help. I find them and kill them by dumb luck every time, no survivors. Morph to a new location, sense, kill, repeat. Forget about noise pings often because they are useless unless I am stunned and someone is running off so I can't use sense to track them. Usually people are at 2/3 main house clumps which leaves me 1/3 chance to morph and no one is there. Since the first morph is usually to trap the phone or car it's still worth it even if no one is there. Second morph is guaranteed killing morph for me.

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@havek I have merged your posts; please don't double post.

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Assholes that morph straight to the objectives and kill people that are unfortunate enough to spawn there have ruined the game for me. I'm good at the game but I'm sick of wasting my time waiting for the next match after I spawn right next to the blue car, not in a cabin, RIGHT NEXT TO THE FUCKING BLUE CAR, and Jason morphs there and kills me. There's nothing my stealth or anything can do to prevent that. I can run and lure him around for a while but that's not fun and that's not what I bought the game to do. The Jasons that don't give you a chance to get settled are the worst. I never leave lobbies. I left one tonight because it was the third time over a course of about 7 games that I spawned next to an objective and the Jason was there within seconds to kill me. Cool, now I get to wait up to 20 fucking minutes to play another 30 seconds? Nah. I'm seriously about to return this piece of shit game since it doesn't even work anyway. How do they keep patching it to make it worse? It kicks half of the lobby every other game. Maybe the 12 year old is writing their code for them.

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1 hour ago, PamelasSweater said:

Assholes that morph straight to the objectives and kill people that are unfortunate enough to spawn there have ruined the game for me. I'm good at the game but I'm sick of wasting my time waiting for the next match after I spawn right next to the blue car, not in a cabin, RIGHT NEXT TO THE FUCKING BLUE CAR, and Jason morphs there and kills me. There's nothing my stealth or anything can do to prevent that. I can run and lure him around for a while but that's not fun and that's not what I bought the game to do. The Jasons that don't give you a chance to get settled are the worst. I never leave lobbies. I left one tonight because it was the third time over a course of about 7 games that I spawned next to an objective and the Jason was there within seconds to kill me. Cool, now I get to wait up to 20 fucking minutes to play another 30 seconds? Nah. I'm seriously about to return this piece of shit game since it doesn't even work anyway. How do they keep patching it to make it worse? It kicks half of the lobby every other game. Maybe the 12 year old is writing their code for them.

Those assholes (me included) have been through the same shit as you. If you spawn near an objective- run! Jason doesn't have shift at that point- run!

That said, spectating fucking blows.

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Just now, bewareofbears said:

Those assholes (me included) have been through the same shit as you. If you spawn near an objective- run! Jason doesn't have shift at that point- run!

That said, spectating fucking blows.

I agree. I really don't understand this spawn killing thing. By the time Jason grabs his two knives (animations included), loads up the map and positions it to his destination you can be well out of there. He has no sense or shift so he can't track you either. 

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Yeah man Jason needs Sense. I'm getting people regularly pushing multiple simultaneous Objectives early game pre-Rage now. That is if they're not team killing or jackholing around. 

People are getting better at kiting, defending objectives instead of scattering, and generally completing objectives more quickly. 

However once they complete the car / boat good luck getting a seat as it becomes every man/woman for themselves. 

Worse thing you can do as a team is scatter and everyone be roaming the map secluded. 

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9 hours ago, Kodiak said:

Stealth affects how much noise you make, that's all. The lower your stealth, the easier it is for him to detect you when you move. Early game and late game he'll be able to track you wherever you go if you play a low stealth character.

Composure affects the rate you gain fear. Higher composure characters take longer to get scared, and the more scared you are the easier it is for him to find you with sense. Basically, characters like Jenny can be outside in the dark for longer periods of time before Jason detects them. I've started playing Deborah recently and she gets scared so easily without my epic darkness fear reduction perk. Composure does indeed make a difference.

Fear affects the range of Sense, but not the likelihood of it seeing you, not at all. Perks may change this, I don't know yet.

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5 hours ago, SexDrugs&Tea said:

Up next on Friday the 13th The Game forums : " Jason being able to kill counselors ruins the game! " 

Up next on the friday the 13th The Game forums: "when anybody wants the game to be changed it means they want the game to be boring".

                                                                                                                                     and

                                                                                               "I don't actually respond to the content of your posts"

                                                                                                                                   and

                                                                       "If jason is nerfed in one way that means he can't be buffed in another way to encourage a funner meta"

                                                                                

                                                                                                                             

Your sentence is not even an argument its just a rhetorical slippery-slope fallacy of my argument, can you explain why sense in its current state is better and funner than what I mentioned? (not rhetoric, an actual question). I admit the title was a big generalization of what I had to say but if you read what I posted its not about nerfing jason its about increasing the thrill in the game. Jason might need to get buffed in another way if sense is reworked negatively for him. Sense needs to be reworked, not removed. Stealth needs to do something useful as well as it would make more sense to be able to hide from Jason, right now its all about running, stamina, and getting in a house. I don't care about jason's shift grab or morph, but this is a horror game where hiding should be viable for stealth characters like it would be in real life but it's not.

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2 minutes ago, havek said:

Up next on the friday the 13th The Game forums: "when anybody wants the game to be changed it means they want the game to be boring".

                                                                                                                                     and

                                                                                               "I don't actually respond to the content of your posts"

                                                                                                                                   and

                                                                       "If jason is nerfed in one way that means he can't be buffed in another way to encourage a funner meta"

                                                                                

                                                                                                                             

Your sentence is not even an argument its just a rhetorical slippery-slope fallacy of my argument, can you explain why sense in its current state is better and funner than what I mentioned? (not rhetoric, an actual question). I admit the title was a big generalization of what I had to say but if you read what I posted its not about nerfing jason its about increasing the thrill in the game. Jason might need to get buffed in another way if sense is reworked negatively for him. Sense needs to be reworked, not removed. Stealth needs to do something useful as well as it would make more sense to be able to hide from Jason, right now its all about running, stamina, and getting in a house. I don't care about jason's shift grab or morph, but this is a horror game where hiding should be viable for stealth characters like it would be in real life but it's not.

Sense is perfect. To alter it would further damage the game. Deal with sense. We all do. A well trained team already has the advantage over Jason. 

 

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Counselors should receive a notification that they have been detected by Sense.

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9 minutes ago, Rydog said:

Counselors should receive a notification that they have been detected by Sense.

I respectfully highly disagree. 

Like overly. 

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8 minutes ago, Campkill said:

Sense is perfect. To alter it would further damage the game. Deal with sense. We all do. A well trained team already has the advantage over Jason. 

 

It's not about nerfing jason, which I am saying for the second time he can be buffed somewhere else. It's funny how you say "deal with sense" as if I'm complaining about sense from a counselors point of view. Playing as Jason bores me because of sense, and also the noise pings are a redundant version of sense that need their own place. I see Deborah thinking she can hide behind a rock from me while she is glowing red and its just laughable. If sense was on a longer cool down it would need some skill and timing to use, right now no skill required unlike Jason's other abilities. Sense is the reason why I don't play stealth characters and only play Vanessa for running away, chad for knocking Jason out,  and high repair characters. I want to play other characters but stealth is a useless trait for me.

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Just now, Campkill said:

I respectfully highly disagree. 

Like overly. 

My problem with Sense -- and this kind of extends to one of the central issues that I perceive with stealth gameplay in general (I include Composure/Fear/Sense in this description) -- is that you aren't receiving any feedback about them at all, about what they are (or aren't) doing for you. I can definitely understand why you would disagree with getting a Sense notification as a counselor, and yeah... it would probably introduce some problems.

What I'm really saying is that I wish there were more counterplay to certain mechanics, and Sense is one of those. Like, maybe some kind of Splinter Cell-esque gauge that gives you at least some visibility of the likelihood that you are hidden from Jason? I dunno.

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Jason sense is vital, otherwise it would be nearly impossible to find out where counselors are. It's one versus eight. Jason needs his perks, too.

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12 hours ago, Campkill said:

I respectfully highly disagree. 

Like overly. 

@Rydog I'll have to agree with campkill on this particular point. I like this post it just needs an explanation to make it clear. The fear  in not knowing if jason sees you or not makes it a fun game, and adds to the paranoia and horror of the game when jason pops up behind you  That's why i want stealth to play a role in sense.

 

12 hours ago, Ste_Wolf said:

Jason sense is vital, otherwise it would be nearly impossible to find out where counselors are. It's one versus eight. Jason needs his perks, too.

Again for the 10th time, its not about nerfing Jason or completely removing sense. I am also talking about the sense ability when you press "2". Ever heard of noise pings? Ever heard of people seeing a dead body making them appear on your sense radar for example? Making the sense range shorter and get bigger throughout the game maybe? I also mentioned longer cooldown for sense as a possibility, not completely removing sense! And if sense were removed, obviously Jason would need to buffed in another way to make it work.

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1 minute ago, havek said:

@Rydog I'll have to agree with campkill on this particular point. I like this post it just needs an explanation to make it clear. The fear  in not knowing if jason sees you or not makes it a fun game, and adds to the paranoia and horror of the game when jason pops up behind you  That's why i want stealth to play a role in sense.

Yeah. Please see my reply to @Campkill -- a flat-out YOU HAVE BEEN SENSED notification probably is not the best idea and would weaken it way too much, but I really just wish there were some sort of counterplay, something that actually says to the player this is a stealth mechanic. The cat-and-mouse thing could be done better. I think Stalk is also a huge part of that, and a lot of Jasons seem to really undervalue/underuse that skill.

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16 minutes ago, Rydog said:

My problem with Sense -- and this kind of extends to one of the central issues that I perceive with stealth gameplay in general (I include Composure/Fear/Sense in this description) -- is that you aren't receiving any feedback about them at all, about what they are (or aren't) doing for you. I can definitely understand why you would disagree with getting a Sense notification as a counselor, and yeah... it would probably introduce some problems.

What I'm really saying is that I wish there were more counterplay to certain mechanics, and Sense is one of those. Like, maybe some kind of Splinter Cell-esque gauge that gives you at least some visibility of the likelihood that you are hidden from Jason? I dunno.

I don't think there should be any HUD gauges, I like how you can see if your character is injured or scared just by looking at them. It's part of why the game makes sense in 3rd person. I think if you have higher stealth your chances should be higher of not being detected and that is mainly what you should be relying on, and sometimes you will die for relying on it too much. The secondary factor could be that stealth depreciates over the course of the game. One stealth point could be lost every minute. Or maybe all stealth factors are lost when Jason has rage. 

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4 minutes ago, havek said:

I don't think there should be any HUD gauges, I like how you can see if your character is injured or scared just by looking at them. It's part of why the game makes sense in 3rd person. I think if you have higher stealth your chances should be higher of not being detected and that is mainly what you should be relying on, and sometimes you will die for relying on it too much. The secondary factor could be that stealth depreciates over the course of the game. One stealth point could be lost every minute. Or maybe all stealth factors are lost when Jason has rage. 

I know there are a lot of disagreements between me and other players on this forum about the value of stealth gameplay, but the idea of stealth is always extremely interesting to me in any game, and I really would love to find a way to make it work in a way where it's useful, counselor players understand what it is (or isn't) accomplishing for them, and there is counterplay on Jason's part (and this applies equally in reverse, with Jason's Sense and Stalk skills vs. counselors).

Maybe Sense could be at peak power when used in conjunction with Stalk, but otherwise it tips counselors off to some degree (music playing from further away, or something like that). Maybe Composure and Stealth could be rolled into one stat, and make for a much stronger and easily understandable way to govern a counselor's defense against all detection mechanics.

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