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Bad news. Looks like we won't see Pamela implemented as a killer.

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30 minutes ago, RKSDooM said:

I mean, I don't mean to be snarky, but it sure looks like it's actually certain fans that are ignoring Jason's wounds, not the filmmakers. They all seem perfectly aware of the wounds inflicted upon Jason in the previous movies, they just have no problem with him surviving them and, indeed, ignoring them.

So a group of medical personnel put Jason in a body bag and had him put in a morgue because he was unconscious. Huh.

I mean, obviously you are free to interpret things however you like, but it seems pretty apparent to me that, in order to create a narrative where Jason isn't supernatural (or superhuman or a mutant or a Kryptonian goalie or whatever) that you have to just sort of... invent stuff and not just go by the evidence on the screen.

 

That's fair, and that's what the point is. The filmmakers had reasons other than a greater mythology in mind for making the decisions they made (in fact, Joseph Zito, the director for part IV, has said specifically that he wanted to start 3 where 4 left off, but you can't have it start off with Jason immediately murdering people, so it was much more fun to create a sequence where we know he's alive and he's in this morgue, and we're just waiting for him to get up and pounce), but a lot needs to be invented by fans in order for it to make sense. But at the end of the day, that leaves everything up to interpretation, really. A lot like song lyrics.

As for me, I can accept a lot of inconsistency, but I still don't get why the little boy Jason in part 8 wasn't a mongloid? I haven't gotten to that part in the book yet. I hope they address it, because that always bothered me.

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, JPops said:

Well in all fairness, there is a rather lengthy post by Wes that has been on the forums for awhile. Detailing concerns and challenges that are faced when considering Pamela as a playable killer. 

That's very true. But it's still disspaointing.

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2 minutes ago, Smitty_Voorhees said:

That's fair, and that's what the point is. The filmmakers had reasons other than a greater mythology in mind for making the decisions they made...

Oh, absolutely. In fact, I don't think any of the filmmakers (except the screenwriters for FREDDY VS. JASON, maybe) really considered the mythology as a whole when creating these movies.

But, at the same time, no one forced the screenwriter to put Jason in a body bag at the beginning of IV. No one forced the screenwriter to explicitly show Jason removing the machete at the beginning of III. These were conscious decisions that were made that paint a picture of a character with some sort of supernatural (superhuman, mutant, etc.) ability. Was it done with the thinking that "This will all tie together and make an epic supernatural fantasy!" No, of course not. Was it done with the thinking that "If I just have Jason supernaturally heal from this then my movie can get going a lot faster!" Probably. But it was still consciously done, regardless of motives. 

Saying that Jason's abilities were just the result of poor continuity (like his pre-VIII teleportation) simply doesn't make any sense, when the filmmakers write and shoot whole new bits that are actively acknowledging that continuity.

13 minutes ago, Smitty_Voorhees said:

As for me, I can accept a lot of inconsistency, but I still don't get why the little boy Jason in part 8 wasn't a mongloid? I haven't gotten to that part in the book yet. I hope they address it, because that always bothered me.

It's funny - in the, otherwise quite good, Simon Hawke novelizations, for some reason Jason isn't hydrocephallic. Instead, his deformities are said to be the result of him rotting at the bottom of the lake for a few days, before dragging himself out of it. When I was much, much younger and much, much dumber I used to think that Part VIII proved that this was the case. Of course, since then I have rewatched Part I a few more dozen times, and FREDDY VS. JASON is also pretty blatant about what Jason looked like... and his appearance in Part II, III and IV doesn't look anything like it was caused by decay.

It sucks, because those novelizations that Hawke wrote of I, II, III and VI really add a lot to the story. How he dropped the ball so hard on that aspect of Jason, I really don't know.

As far as Part VIII goes, I see it, basically, like this (with the understanding that I am not saying that this was how the director intended it):

By Part VIII Jason Voorhees - the actual child that died when he was 11 - is trapped in this unstoppable, supernatural killing machine. He has no real control over anything, and he just wants to rest.

FREDDY VS. JASON (and, to a lesser extent, JASON GOES TO HELL) seems to imply that the souls of those that Jason kills (or just that die violent deaths) are trapped in or near the Lake. So I think an "echo" of Jason - actual 11 year old drowning victim Jason - still exists in the lake.

So, when Rennie - as a child - gets pushed into the lake by her Uncle, it is this remnant of Jason that she encounters. Notice that, in this encounter, Jason IS a mongoloid.

I think that Rennie forges some sort of psychic bond with Jason by almost drowning in the same place where he did, at the same age when he did.

So, years later, during the main thrust of Part VIII, being in the lake / near Jason, causes that connection to flare up, and what Rennie is seeing throughout the whole movie is that little piece of the true Jason, trapped inside of the monster, pleading with her to set him free.

At the end, after the toxic waste has "killed" Jason once again, the final part of the pure, human Jason dies at last, and that is represented, psychically, to Rennie as the undeformed body of a child. 

Meanwhile, the supernatural monster left behind is finally free of all of its humanity, leading to the demonic wormlike body hopping Jason in JASON GOES TO HELL.

(As to why Jason appears undeformed at the beginning of the film, when that dude is telling his girlfriend Jason's backstory, I just assume it's because it is from that guy's point of view, and he doesn't know that particular detail - which is clumsy, but that's all I gots!)

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2 hours ago, RKSDooM said:

Except that they didn't ignore the wound. At all. Instead they open the movie with a flashback to the wound being inflicted and then filmed a whole new sequence of Jason yanking out the blade. 

Seems like a bizarre thing to do if you just want to pretend that the wound never happened.

I mean, I don't mean to be snarky, but it sure looks like it's actually certain fans that are ignoring Jason's wounds, not the filmmakers. They all seem perfectly aware of the wounds inflicted upon Jason in the previous movies, they just have no problem with him surviving them and, indeed, ignoring them.

So a group of medical personnel put Jason in a body bag and had him put in a morgue because he was unconscious. Huh.

I mean, obviously you are free to interpret things however you like, but it seems pretty apparent to me that, in order to create a narrative where Jason isn't supernatural (or superhuman or a mutant or a Kryptonian goalie or whatever) that you have to just sort of... invent stuff and not just go by the evidence on the screen.

 

So they added a scene of Jason pulling the machete out. What's that supposed to prove? He still had it in his shoulder when he pulled Ginny through the window at the end of part II, and a full head of hair as well, but the scene in part III skipped the final ending altogether. They left out the scene of his unmasking because the hair issue, but kept the machete to the collarbone cause it was too good to leave out.

That's because the film makers want you to ignore Jason's wounds as well.

The girl paramedic didn't even want to touch Jason at all, even though the male paramedic said he was dead. We didn't see anyone checking him for a pulse, or see if he was breathing. They just put him on a stretcher. The cops just saw a guy with an axe in his head, assumed the worst, and threw a sheet over him. Those are actual events from the movie. To bad they didn't have your passion for having a more defined supernatural element throughout all the movies.

You gotta remember that most B-movie makers don't care about the details like you or me. They are just slapping these things together to make a quick buck.

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22 minutes ago, Ultimusone01 said:

So they added a scene of Jason pulling the machete out. What's that supposed to prove?

Well, I'd say the fact that they wrote and filmed a scene explicitly reminding us of Jason's wounds would prove that they weren't ignoring those wounds, but I'm kooky that way :P.

21 minutes ago, Ultimusone01 said:

He still had it in his shoulder when he pulled Ginny through the window at the end of part II, and a full head of hair as well, but the scene in part III skipped the final ending altogether. They left out the scene of his unmasking because the hair issue, but kept the machete to the collarbone cause it was too good to leave out.

The scene with Jason coming through the window also has Muffin, explicitly shown to be torn to pieces earlier in the film, miraculously return from the dead. Between that, the lack of continuity with Jason's appearance, the use of dream sequences at the end of Part III and Part IV (although they scrapped the Part IV one), and the new footage at the beginning of Part III, showing Jason removing the machete while still in the shack, I think it's safe to say that the sequence at the end of Part II with Jason coming through the window is a dream sequence.

21 minutes ago, Ultimusone01 said:

That's because the film makers want you to ignore Jason's wounds as well.

They reshow Jason getting his wound from the end of Part II and write and film new sequences of him removing the machete from himself... because they want us to ignore Jason's wounds? 

I mean, if that really sounds logical to you, cool beans. Go with that.

21 minutes ago, Ultimusone01 said:

The girl paramedic didn't even want to touch Jason at all, even though the male paramedic said he was dead. We didn't see anyone checking him for a pulse, or see if he was breathing. They just put him on a stretcher. The cops just saw a guy with an axe in his head, assumed the worst, and threw a sheet over him. Those are actual events from the movie. If anyone is making up things it's you.

Again, if you think it makes sense for paramedics to put someone in a body bag and ship him off to the morgue without anyone ever declaring that person dead (even though one of the paramedics, like, actually declares him dead, as you yourself pointed out :lol: ), then that's fine. I really can't argue with the kind of thinking that says: "Yeah, that paramedic said he was dead and they put him in a body bag and they take him to the morgue... but the movie never actually SHOWS him checking!" 

I mean, I can't prove that they actually drove Jason's body all the way to the morgue, because they didn't show the entire drive. But I don't think that if I said that they did, I would be "making up things." I think I would be using common sense.

21 minutes ago, Ultimusone01 said:

You gotta remember that most B-movie makers don't care about the details like you or me. They are just slapping these things together to make a quick buck.

No, I am aware of that. What YOU have to remember is that there is no reason to call attention to Jason's machete wound at the beginning of Part III or to have Jason declared dead, put in a body bag and then put in the morgue if the filmmakers didn't WANT TO. 

They could just start Part III 5 years later and say that Jason healed his wounds in that time.

They could just have a new killer again in Part III.

They could do almost anything, but instead they chose to do what they did, and what they did obviously shows that they were comfortable with the idea - even if it was out of convenience - that Jason was a supernatural (superhuman, mutant, etc.) being.

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Good news if you ask me. Unless someone can actually make a reasonable suggestion as to how Pamela would in any way be fun to play, or play against.

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2 minutes ago, The Arrogant Man said:

Good news if you ask me. Unless someone can actually make a reasonable suggestion as to how Pamela would in any way be fun to play, or play against.

They would have to do something like Dead By Daylight. It would have to be a smaller map and the only way to escape is kill her or get the car running. 

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They already said they're adding her. She can have other powers besides shift and teleport. Even in the first Friday the 13th movie sure as hell seemed like she could teleport and stalk. Even then she can do things Jason can't. Like drive a car. Thatd be funny as hell to run people over as her.

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6 minutes ago, Ghostboy20 said:

They would have to do something like Dead By Daylight. It would have to be a smaller map and the only way to escape is kill her or get the car running. 

So everyone goes Bugsy and wins every game.

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1 minute ago, The Arrogant Man said:

So everyone goes Bugsy and wins every game.

But unlike Jason. She can drive. Take em out and crash the car and make it unusable. She could probably even drag em out the car like Jason does. In the movie she easily threw that person through the window

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2 minutes ago, The Arrogant Man said:

So everyone goes Bugsy and wins every game.

They would have to lock characters and only one character for each person. That's how I would think it would work. Unless they just give her as a skin then there. 

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2 minutes ago, Ghostboy20 said:

They would have to lock characters and only one character for each person. That's how I would think it would work. Unless they just give her as a skin then there. 

Who's to say she didn't have Jason's powers though? She cursed Jason and the lake. Who's to say she didn't curse herself? No where in any movies does it say she did or didn't. I mean she's obviously extremely strong being able to throw people windows like Jason. In the movie she's attacking the cabin Alice is in then all the sudden she's far af away and driving in.... Teleport maybe? Yes she can die. But I believe they'd make it to where you call in Alice instead of Tommy to kill her. I think itd be exactly the same but not having to have anything except damage her enough then have Alice cut her head off.

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8 hours ago, RKSDooM said:

Well, I'd say the fact that they wrote and filmed a scene explicitly reminding us of Jason's wounds would prove that they weren't ignoring those wounds, but I'm kooky that way :P.

The scene with Jason coming through the window also has Muffin, explicitly shown to be torn to pieces earlier in the film, miraculously return from the dead. Between that, the lack of continuity with Jason's appearance, the use of dream sequences at the end of Part III and Part IV (although they scrapped the Part IV one), and the new footage at the beginning of Part III, showing Jason removing the machete while still in the shack, I think it's safe to say that the sequence at the end of Part II with Jason coming through the window is a dream sequence.

They reshow Jason getting his wound from the end of Part II and write and film new sequences of him removing the machete from himself... because they want us to ignore Jason's wounds? 

I mean, if that really sounds logical to you, cool beans. Go with that.

Again, if you think it makes sense for paramedics to put someone in a body bag and ship him off to the morgue without anyone ever declaring that person dead (even though one of the paramedics, like, actually declares him dead, as you yourself pointed out :lol: ), then that's fine. I really can't argue with the kind of thinking that says: "Yeah, that paramedic said he was dead and they put him in a body bag and they take him to the morgue... but the movie never actually SHOWS him checking!" 

I mean, I can't prove that they actually drove Jason's body all the way to the morgue, because they didn't show the entire drive. But I don't think that if I said that they did, I would be "making up things." I think I would be using common sense.

No, I am aware of that. What YOU have to remember is that there is no reason to call attention to Jason's machete wound at the beginning of Part III or to have Jason declared dead, put in a body bag and then put in the morgue if the filmmakers didn't WANT TO. 

They could just start Part III 5 years later and say that Jason healed his wounds in that time.

They could just have a new killer again in Part III.

They could do almost anything, but instead they chose to do what they did, and what they did obviously shows that they were comfortable with the idea - even if it was out of convenience - that Jason was a supernatural (superhuman, mutant, etc.) being.

Up until part 5. Jason has no powers. He was just extremely strong and extremely resilient. 

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4 minutes ago, bobbumman619 said:

Who's to say she didn't have Jason's powers though? She cursed Jason and the lake. Who's to say she didn't curse herself? No where in any movies does it say she did or didn't. I mean she's obviously extremely strong being able to throw people windows like Jason. In the movie she's attacking the cabin Alice is in then all the sudden she's far af away and driving in.... Teleport maybe? Yes she can die. But I believe they'd make it to where you call in Alice instead of Tommy to kill her. I think itd be exactly the same but not having to have anything except damage her enough then have Alice cut her head off.

i never said she didn't have powers, but from what we do know she was just a normal person (Even tho she tossed that one girl through a dang window) I'm just throwing out ideas for those who don't want her having powers. To me it's a game, it's not cannon so have some fun with it. 

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1 minute ago, bobbumman619 said:

Who's to say she didn't have Jason's powers though? She cursed Jason and the lake. Who's to say she didn't curse herself? No where in any movies does it say she did or didn't. I mean she's obviously extremely strong being able to throw people windows like Jason. In the movie she's attacking the cabin Alice is in then all the sudden she's far af away and driving in.... Teleport maybe? Yes she can die. But I believe they'd make it to where you call in Alice instead of Tommy to kill her. I think itd be exactly the same but not having to have anything except damage her enough then have Alice cut her head off.

Congratulations. She's not Pamela anymore. You've turned her into some weird magic witch lady. What's the point of having her if she'll be NOTHING like her movie counterpart?

 

8 minutes ago, Ghostboy20 said:

They would have to lock characters and only one character for each person. That's how I would think it would work. Unless they just give her as a skin then there. 

Now you're just getting silly. Yes, if they change everything about the game, it could wor... wait, NO! You could not ever have any kind of team effort directed against a middle aged woman. She would stand no chance. The only way to make it work would be to give her supernatural powers, which as I've already mentioned, completely destroys her as a character. People don't want Pamela because she'd be fun to play, they want her for it's own sake. She's awesome. I agree. But she's out of place in this game. She's already well represented in the game as is.

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1 minute ago, The Arrogant Man said:

Congratulations. She's not Pamela anymore. You've turned her into some weird magic witch lady. What's the point of having her if she'll be NOTHING like her movie counterpart?

 

Now you're just getting silly. Yes, if they change everything about the game, it could wor... wait, NO! You could not ever have any kind of team effort directed against a middle aged woman. She would stand no chance. The only way to make it work would be to give her supernatural powers, which as I've already mentioned, completely destroys her as a character. People don't want Pamela because she'd be fun to play, they want her for it's own sake. She's awesome. I agree. But she's out of place in this game. She's already well represented in the game as is.

NES Jason isn't even cannon, he's in the game. Putting her in as a skin on one of the Jason's would be something they could look into. But it's how it is, you could had a new game mode that she's killing players but it would be a guessing game like clue, who is the kill and you'll have to figure it out. Tho you would need to remove who is who and have a blind gameplay. There is always new ideas for this game, but right now I think we should focus on fixing the glitches that are up and getting severs stable. 

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10 minutes ago, bobbumman619 said:

Up until part 5. Jason has no powers. He was just extremely strong and extremely resilient. 

Gotcha. No powers.

mPsW07LDhQPhfx47MpYORQvi8ChUrYhPyo5ddZj5

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31 minutes ago, bobbumman619 said:

They already said they're adding her. She can have other powers besides shift and teleport. Even in the first Friday the 13th movie sure as hell seemed like she could teleport and stalk. Even then she can do things Jason can't. Like drive a car. Thatd be funny as hell to run people over as her.

Source??

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14 minutes ago, Ghostboy20 said:

i never said she didn't have powers, but from what we do know she was just a normal person (Even tho she tossed that one girl through a dang window) I'm just throwing out ideas for those who don't want her having powers. To me it's a game, it's not cannon so have some fun with it. 

They were trying to do everythimg like the movies. I don't see how they wouldn't put her. I mean shed have the strength and morph. But I'd say for stalk. Since she's not Jason have her stalk active when she goes into a hiding spot and if a counselor comes by she can jump out and kill them or if she's under a bed just slice their tendon so they cant run away. As for shift I think since shes just another actual person just give her some speed and stamina like a boy othwr character. Of course they'd have to give her a lil more to catch up with bugsy. Maybe more stamina but less speed? I'm not sure. Ive been think about this for a wille myself

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10 hours ago, RKSDooM said:

Oh, absolutely. In fact, I don't think any of the filmmakers (except the screenwriters for FREDDY VS. JASON, maybe) really considered the mythology as a whole when creating these movies.

But, at the same time, no one forced the screenwriter to put Jason in a body bag at the beginning of IV. No one forced the screenwriter to explicitly show Jason removing the machete at the beginning of III. These were conscious decisions that were made that paint a picture of a character with some sort of supernatural (superhuman, mutant, etc.) ability. Was it done with the thinking that "This will all tie together and make an epic supernatural fantasy!" No, of course not. Was it done with the thinking that "If I just have Jason supernaturally heal from this then my movie can get going a lot faster!" Probably. But it was still consciously done, regardless of motives. 

Saying that Jason's abilities were just the result of poor continuity (like his pre-VIII teleportation) simply doesn't make any sense, when the filmmakers write and shoot whole new bits that are actively acknowledging that continuity.

It's funny - in the, otherwise quite good, Simon Hawke novelizations, for some reason Jason isn't hydrocephallic. Instead, his deformities are said to be the result of him rotting at the bottom of the lake for a few days, before dragging himself out of it. When I was much, much younger and much, much dumber I used to think that Part VIII proved that this was the case. Of course, since then I have rewatched Part I a few more dozen times, and FREDDY VS. JASON is also pretty blatant about what Jason looked like... and his appearance in Part II, III and IV doesn't look anything like it was caused by decay.

It sucks, because those novelizations that Hawke wrote of I, II, III and VI really add a lot to the story. How he dropped the ball so hard on that aspect of Jason, I really don't know.

As far as Part VIII goes, I see it, basically, like this (with the understanding that I am not saying that this was how the director intended it):

By Part VIII Jason Voorhees - the actual child that died when he was 11 - is trapped in this unstoppable, supernatural killing machine. He has no real control over anything, and he just wants to rest.

FREDDY VS. JASON (and, to a lesser extent, JASON GOES TO HELL) seems to imply that the souls of those that Jason kills (or just that die violent deaths) are trapped in or near the Lake. So I think an "echo" of Jason - actual 11 year old drowning victim Jason - still exists in the lake.

So, when Rennie - as a child - gets pushed into the lake by her Uncle, it is this remnant of Jason that she encounters. Notice that, in this encounter, Jason IS a mongoloid.

I think that Rennie forges some sort of psychic bond with Jason by almost drowning in the same place where he did, at the same age when he did.

So, years later, during the main thrust of Part VIII, being in the lake / near Jason, causes that connection to flare up, and what Rennie is seeing throughout the whole movie is that little piece of the true Jason, trapped inside of the monster, pleading with her to set him free.

At the end, after the toxic waste has "killed" Jason once again, the final part of the pure, human Jason dies at last, and that is represented, psychically, to Rennie as the undeformed body of a child. 

Meanwhile, the supernatural monster left behind is finally free of all of its humanity, leading to the demonic wormlike body hopping Jason in JASON GOES TO HELL.

(As to why Jason appears undeformed at the beginning of the film, when that dude is telling his girlfriend Jason's backstory, I just assume it's because it is from that guy's point of view, and he doesn't know that particular detail - which is clumsy, but that's all I gots!)

This is very well thought out. I'd love to believe this, but (in regards to the final paragraphs) it really just seems like New Line was ignoring continuity in favor of making whatever they wanted.

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1 minute ago, DialM said:

This is very well thought out. I'd love to believe this, but (in regards to the final paragraphs) it really just seems like New Line was ignoring continuity in favor of making whatever they wanted.

And I'm sure that they totally were doing that, so it's left to us fans to make sense of it all, if we are so inclined :).

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10 minutes ago, RKSDooM said:

Gotcha. No powers.

mPsW07LDhQPhfx47MpYORQvi8ChUrYhPyo5ddZj5

They even said he had no powers look it up. They give him his powers in the movies once he's zombie Jason which is Part 6

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18 minutes ago, The Arrogant Man said:

Congratulations. She's not Pamela anymore. You've turned her into some weird magic witch lady. What's the point of having her if she'll be NOTHING like her movie counterpart?

 

Now you're just getting silly. Yes, if they change everything about the game, it could wor... wait, NO! You could not ever have any kind of team effort directed against a middle aged woman. She would stand no chance. The only way to make it work would be to give her supernatural powers, which as I've already mentioned, completely destroys her as a character. People don't want Pamela because she'd be fun to play, they want her for it's own sake. She's awesome. I agree. But she's out of place in this game. She's already well represented in the game as is.

How's it not like the movies? I literally explained a scene from the movie itself. Watch it again. You'll see shes right outside the cabin then all the sudden shes far af away driving up in a car. If that's not not that old woman can run fast af. And yes she is extremely strong she throws a woman through the windows and even hangs a man up in a tree. That's pretty fucking strong. 

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Just now, bobbumman619 said:

They even said he had no powers look it up.

Oh totally. I mean, who am I to argue with They?

 

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