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$500 Virtual Team Member tier disappointment

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8 hours ago, Jay said:

Good news everyone!  Randy and I have come to an agreement and I have gotten a refund.  I'm satisfied and am still a backer, just not at $500.  Thanks, Randy, for taking the time to address the concerns of me and everyone else.

Good to hear. At least you're happy with the decision. Did you tell him you knew Saul Goodman?

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10 minutes ago, Brigadius said:

Good to hear. At least you're happy with the decision. Did you tell him you knew Saul Goodman?

I did not.  But I do know him.  For realsies.

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3 minutes ago, Jay said:

I did not.  But I do know him.  For realsies.

Well,  he is a "criminal attorney" they might already have him on retainer. 

Do you really? Love his character. 

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Just now, Brigadius said:

Well,  he is a "criminal attorney" they might already have him on retainer. 

Do you really? Love his character. 

No, I don't know Bob Odenkirk personally.  I was just kidding.

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

No, I don't know Bob Odenkirk personally.  I was just kidding.

Damn, that would have been awesome. You could of had a Skype conversation with Gun and brought him along to negotiate  lol

Slippin' Jimmy knows how to deal with these people. 

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Regardless of specifics, I'm happy for you Jay that you got things resolved to your satisfaction! Hope to still see you around the campfires! :)

And good on Randy and the guys... yes it was a mess, but thanks for doing right by Jay. Helps to remain optimistic and continue forward with the goodwill toward the developers! 

Now Jay, everytime you're Jason, you don't have to visualize the developers as counselors! lol

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11 minutes ago, cruehitman said:

Now Jay, everytime you're Jason, you don't have to visualize the developers as counselors! lol

Haha, I never did that.  But, I guess I won't now.   Playing Jason is stressful, though. 

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46 minutes ago, lHeartBreakerl said:

I'm actually surprise you're not upset at all about this. I'm not even a VTM but i'm upset about it.

From a redditor:

ryandunking 1 point an hour ago 

Even after what Randy said on the forum, I'm still thinking "fuck that," I'd still get a refund if I were you.

They say X, don't follow up with X, then they say "forget X, here's Y", then they didn't follow up with Y. Now they're saying "yeah there was problems but look, now we have Z! (while disregarding X and Y)" Hmmm... looks like a pattern...

Lmao I'd nope the fuck out of there ASAP my man.

I wanted to address this and set some things straight. First, this is a $100 reward. It's additive and stacks on top of the $400 reward tier and includes the game, DLC and many other things. The reward still includes the ability to influence the development of the game, and we have a long way to go with all the updates we'll be doing for quite some time. The only thing that changed, was the timeframe and for that I apologize. We at Gun and Illfonic have been heads down and doing everything we can to deliver on all fronts, and make a game that the F13 community can be proud of. There has been some insinuations by some in this thread about various things and our intents, but I definitely would like to help close this down and not have anyone further maligned in the process. 

I emailed Jay and sorted all this out and contacted all the backers of this reward. In the effort to be transparent, I'd like to post one of my replies to his emails. I have asked and have gotten his approval to do this.

----

Hello Jay,

So, with everything that has happened I wanted to be clear that this whole Kickstarter and everything we're doing has been new to us. This was our first KS and trip down crowdfunding lane. We've scraped by, and put everything we could into the game. It's always been a new and unproven game design until recently, inherently risky, because there was no roadmap to follow. We were blazing trails on this type of game.

It's incredibly hard and stressful to make a game, any game, as it is, and it's very easy for time to get away from you. I'm sure you understand and have had projects in your life that have consumed you, that you've thrown your all into, and still it wasn't enough to get everything you wanted to get done. As well, I'm sure you can understand that with anything in life, plans can change, things can shift, and reality can come at you faster than you can react. This project has been immensely time consuming, especially as a small team. We've all sacrificed sleep, time with our families and sometimes even sanity to get this game done. I'm not making excuses, just talking about the realities we have faced. 

With all that said, it wasn't magical timing. It's been in the works and just one of the many things on our plate. I understand that you are upset about information that was shared with Charmin, but Charmin had no influence on any design decisions whatsoever. The Community Design team liaisons will have influence, solid suggestions and direction will be acted upon from the input. 

If you want a refund, I'd be happy to give you one in full. No worries there. You'd still keep the digital content you've received to date, and we'd close out your account. While I wish I could turn back time, find more resources and know what we know now, back then, that's just not reality. I would be personally sad to see you fall away and not be a part of the process going forward, but will do what it takes to make you happy from this point where we're at.

Whatever outcome you choose, I want to say thank you for the support and honesty about how you feel. It's very much appreciated, and I'd like to send you something personally (consider it an apology gift from me) regardless of your choice on whether or not to proceed or get a refund. 

-Randy

----

If you or anyone else has anything else to say on this matter (or any other), please do me the courtesy of coming to me personally by forum private message, email, or twitter DM, before casting disparaging remarks.

Thank You.

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9 minutes ago, Randygbk said:

If you or anyone else has anything else to say on this matter (or any other), please do me the courtesy of coming to me personally by forum private message, email, or twitter DM, before casting disparaging remarks.

Thank You.

With all due respect, the disparaging remarks were well earned. I'm not the only one in this thread, or even other social media who believes the same.

You understand how the situation looked, right? I'm glad Jay is happy. My whole intention of posting here was to bring attention to it and correct the wrongs that you brought on.

Thankfully it was resolved. Thankfully you apologized for the situation. But don't act like the criticism wasn't earned.

This is the last I'll comment on the matter. Good luck patching the game, new content, etc etc. And @PowellCampsNAKED I hope you are satisfied with the coming skype calls and working with Gun. Maybe you'll contribute to making things a bit better in game.

I have noticed a lack of tall boys around crystal lake..

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29 minutes ago, Randygbk said:

I wanted to address this and set some things straight. First, this is a $100 reward. It's additive and stacks on top of the $400 reward tier and includes the game, DLC and many other things. The reward still includes the ability to influence the development of the game, and we have a long way to go with all the updates we'll be doing for quite some time. The only thing that changed, was the timeframe and for that I apologize. We at Gun and Illfonic have been heads down and doing everything we can to deliver on all fronts, and make a game that the F13 community can be proud of. There has been some insinuations by some in this thread about various things and our intents, but I definitely would like to help close this down and not have anyone further maligned in the process. 

I emailed Jay and sorted all this out and contacted all the backers of this reward. In the effort to be transparent, I'd like to post one of my replies to his emails. I have asked and have gotten his approval to do this.

----

Hello Jay,

So, with everything that has happened I wanted to be clear that this whole Kickstarter and everything we're doing has been new to us. This was our first KS and trip down crowdfunding lane. We've scraped by, and put everything we could into the game. It's always been a new and unproven game design until recently, inherently risky, because there was no roadmap to follow. We were blazing trails on this type of game.

It's incredibly hard and stressful to make a game, any game, as it is, and it's very easy for time to get away from you. I'm sure you understand and have had projects in your life that have consumed you, that you've thrown your all into, and still it wasn't enough to get everything you wanted to get done. As well, I'm sure you can understand that with anything in life, plans can change, things can shift, and reality can come at you faster than you can react. This project has been immensely time consuming, especially as a small team. We've all sacrificed sleep, time with our families and sometimes even sanity to get this game done. I'm not making excuses, just talking about the realities we have faced. 

With all that said, it wasn't magical timing. It's been in the works and just one of the many things on our plate. I understand that you are upset about information that was shared with Charmin, but Charmin had no influence on any design decisions whatsoever. The Community Design team liaisons will have influence, solid suggestions and direction will be acted upon from the input. 

If you want a refund, I'd be happy to give you one in full. No worries there. You'd still keep the digital content you've received to date, and we'd close out your account. While I wish I could turn back time, find more resources and know what we know now, back then, that's just not reality. I would be personally sad to see you fall away and not be a part of the process going forward, but will do what it takes to make you happy from this point where we're at.

Whatever outcome you choose, I want to say thank you for the support and honesty about how you feel. It's very much appreciated, and I'd like to send you something personally (consider it an apology gift from me) regardless of your choice on whether or not to proceed or get a refund. 

-Randy

----

If you or anyone else has anything else to say on this matter (or any other), please do me the courtesy of coming to me personally by forum private message, email, or twitter DM, before casting disparaging remarks.

Thank You.

As someone that has been buried, head-down, in independent work, against all odds, in a giant and uncaring industry, I understand and relate a great deal to what Randy has worded here.

Absolutely ZERO excuses to failing on timelines and expected deliveries/promises here. Just facts and painful realities of the astonishing road to creating things you believe in, outside of the mainstream formula and funding.

I've never gone the kickstarter route, but I have seen other colleagues do so, and fumble due to similar issues.

Time seriously gets consumed by so many monsters we never expected.

Again, I am not saying this in defense, but more just sharing, almost venting, because, it can be so damn tough. And that is why I have cheered on Gun Media and this project. And it is why I've been so happy for their successes. When I started watching their interviews and reading their thoughts and the story behind this game coming together (and the license being offered!!), I started to believe this was going to be amazing.

Then, the first time I saw the beta, last winter... I had that emotional charge similar to the first time I sat in a small movie theatre for a premiere of an independent short film I'd done the music for, was assistant director for, and did some other crew work on - a handful of us literally working around the clock to meet that deadline (finishing the movie editing 30 minutes prior to the start-time at the premiere, LOL!!). When the audience starts reacting on the beats you created, when people are enjoying it, when YOU are looking at it and saying, "YES!!"... it's amazing. And I felt that in just watching other people play their beta. And also when I played it.

Anyway... got into rambling there, which I could keep doing for close to eternity, lol.

I don't excuse mistakes and foul ups and all that, but I understand it and I don't view it as negatively as others may. I completely agree with how Jay handled this and I feel badly for all sides in the matter, but I'm glad there is a happy resolution. And I really appreciated how Randy worded that. Even if I think the majority of people just want to see more of the apology and less of the explanation... I truly understand and appreciate you sharing that. I don't see it as dismissing the failures, but, rather, being transparent about how overwhelmed and unprepared they have been throughout this (and I say that in a good way - I'd rather see unprepared dreamers that deliver original, mind-blowingly exciting content - a little hap-hazardly - than more of the same through the formulaic established industry).

Goonies never say die...

(Okay, shutting up for real now, lol)

 

 

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@Jay and @Randygbk handled this situation extremely well here, and I'm glad to see an amicable outcome for both parties here for once with this community.  No pitchforks and torches, just mature "airing of the grievances."  What is this, Festivus?  :)

Now, about the Counselor Database Tandy...  (I kid, I kid... kinda)

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6 hours ago, Jay said:

Good news everyone!  Randy and I have come to an agreement and I have gotten a refund.  I'm satisfied and am still a backer, just not at $500.  Thanks, Randy, for taking the time to address the concerns of me and everyone else.

I'd happily take your slot as on the Community Dev Team

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@Jay and @Randygbk I'm really happy that this situation had a peaceful outcome. Of course there are still issues that the game really needs help with but I'm glad that the developers are not just dismissing this and are trying to do right with what resources they have. This is rare.

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Just a heads up to @Randygbk or any other publisher- I personally prefer to keep all interactions with you and your team public. It's likely some others feel the same. If it were a personal matter- yes, private interaction. But these are professional/consumer matters and benefit from being aired publicly with full transparency.

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I reached out to SidAlpha for coverage of the issue, however, other than what he read about the situation in the video (screenshots), the opinions are his own.  I made no comments regarding anything about the game itself or anything else.  Only that the devs were not responding to my request for refund and that what was promised to me specifically initially back in November 2015 never got delivered.

I'm guessing Randy knew this video was coming before it was posted by SidAlpha since SidAlpha talked to Ben about the overall situation in Discord.

As I said before, I'm happy with my resolution.

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

I reached out to him for coverage of the issue, however, other than what he read about the situation in the video (screenshots), the opinions are his own.  I made no comments regarding anything about the game itself or anything else.  Only that the devs were not responding to my request for refund and that what was promised to me specifically initially back in November 2015 never got delivered.

Even though the issue is resolved, it should still be made more public for other backers who want a refund on the tier. I'm glad you contacted him. The issue going more public is probably what caused a more speedy-ish response from Randy.

 

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

As I said before, I'm happy with my resolution.

More than happy about that. Are you still a backer for the Counselor Database? 

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6 minutes ago, lHeartBreakerl said:

Are you still a backer for the Counselor Database? 

Nope, I dropped down to a much lower pledge tier.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Nope, I dropped down to a much lower pledge tier.

I wonder if this now opens a slot for someone else interested in your spot?  I see why you were upset but I'm still excited my man! 

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15 minutes ago, PowellCampsNAKED said:

I wonder if this now opens a slot for someone else interested in your spot?  I see why you were upset but I'm still excited my man! 

Gonna have to start bouncing ideas off of you. lol. Maybe some of them will finally be heard by a dev.

In the meantime here's a 24 pack. ;)

FB_IMG_1499943277569.jpg

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2 hours ago, lHeartBreakerl said:

Haven't watched it yet, but I'll just leave this here.

 

this is horrible

 

@GunMedia_Ben promisd to send sidalpha an email and he didn't

 

Sid is right - so many lies, broken promises and lack of communication are sickening. I wish they would actually just come on here and own up to this bad behvaiour instead of trying to sell us ont he stupid song and dance about them being overworked.

 

News flash - We all are. We don't all suck at our jobs though.

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3 minutes ago, 7theye said:

this is horrible

 

@GunMedia_Ben promisd to send sidalpha an email and he didn't

 

Sid is right - so many lies, broken promises and lack of communication are sickening. I wish they would actually just come on here and own up to this bad behvaiour instead of trying to sell us ont he stupid song and dance about them being overworked.

 

News flash - We all are. We don't all suck at our jobs though.

That video is all wrong the game has been complete since launch, single player is just an added supplement to the game! The guy in the video try's to make it sound like no one likes the game and makes it sound like the game is trash??? Not diggin these type of YouTubers!

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Just now, PowellCampsNAKED said:

That video is all wrong the game has been complete since launch, single player is just an added supplement to the game! The guy in the video try's to make it sound like no one likes the game and makes it sound like the game is trash??? Not diggin these type of YouTubers!

he may go overboard but he has a point

 

This game has been a Matt Hardy since launch. It is still very buggy just jumping into a game without a disconnect. Lack of promised host migration or dedicated servers, glitchy etc. Even without single player its hardly polished

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35 minutes ago, PowellCampsNAKED said:

I wonder if this now opens a slot for someone else interested in your spot?  I see why you were upset but I'm still excited my man! 

I'm stoked your excited- I hope it's what you want it to be and you're able to add your input. :)

2 hours ago, Jay said:

I reached out to SidAlpha for coverage of the issue, however, other than what he read about the situation in the video (screenshots), the opinions are his own.  I made no comments regarding anything about the game itself or anything else.  Only that the devs were not responding to my request for refund and that what was promised to me specifically initially back in November 2015 never got delivered.

I'm guessing Randy knew this video was coming before it was posted by SidAlpha since SidAlpha talked to Ben about the overall situation in Discord.

As I said before, I'm happy with my resolution.

If there's a lesson to be learnt for Gun, it's to remember to be accountable. It's a very old promise that was made and shouldn't have ever been left this long to be dealt with. I'm glad you got a satisfactory resolution and they didn't give you a hassle when you finally did get to discuss it with them. :)

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