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Brigadius

Roads? Where we're going Jason doesn't need roads.

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I've been giving this some thought and I think the shift ability may need a tune up. It's hard to say having not played but I have watched more than a few beta videos. It seems like he gets stuck on a lot of world objects while shifting. I'm assuming this is because they stop drawing the model but he's still actually there leaving this giant hit box to collide with everything in its path. And he can't shift over simple things like fences or the car which could be an issue. 

I have a few possible options to throw out here:

Smaller spherical hitbox

Give him a smaller or spherical or both hit box that if positioned a few feet off of ground so he can roll around objects. This would allow him to roll around trees over fences and even over the car. I mention the car because I purposed a scenario where vehicles could be used to block off buildings keeping Jason from being able to get in. This would fix that in some instances. If the hit box was small enough and positioned at about window height he would be able to shift through ground floor windows. This might be cool because he can't climb through windows and the ability is limited enough to prevent over use. This would solve all the issues I brought up with the car earlier I think. 

Freeroam

This would be the same as above but would allow Jason to move up and down freely while shifting rather than just rolling over the terrain. This would give him the ability to shift through upstairs windows. 

These options would allow for a smoother shift without getting stuck on environmental objects. It also adds a new strategy to the game. Do I leave the window open? I haven't worked out all the details but I would say that Jason would not be able to shift through a broken window, only opened windows. And the freeroam could be used to get on top of buildings this could be a problem but I don't see it really being one. If anything Jason jumping down from the roof would be scary as s***. These could affect the shift grab but you would just need to become more practiced in it. 

If there's anything I overlooked or you have anything to add or see any problems I'm always up for a good discussion. 

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8 minutes ago, ResolutionBlaze said:

This has been suggested many times, especially by yours truly.

 

Did a search and shift comes up quite a bit, but I didn't find anything specific. And I do talk about how this could fix a problem of blocking entrances with vehicles which is completely new so I think it's unique enough to qualify as a stand alone topic. But, I guess I'll find out when Jpops rolls around to check. 

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3 minutes ago, Brigadius said:

 

 

Did a search and shift comes up quite a bit, but I didn't find anything specific. And I do talk about how this could fix a problem of blocking entrances with vehicles which is completely new so I think it's unique enough to qualify as a stand alone topic. But, I guess I'll find out when Jpops rolls around to check. 

Search engine here is weird.  But I know for sure I did a topic on this.

It's whatever though.

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2 minutes ago, ResolutionBlaze said:

Search engine here is weird.  But I know for sure I did a topic on this.

It's whatever though.

How long ago? I heard a lot of old posts got deleted during the forum change up. 

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1 minute ago, Brigadius said:

How long ago? I heard a lot of old posts got deleted during the forum change up. 

It was not long after the Beta ended.

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I like a lot of your points, but I kinda like that Jason has some restrictions when it comes to shifting.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe Jason should be OP, but I feel if he can shift through cars or fences,and out of windows he would be unstoppable.

 a councillor who has low stamina and is caught out in the open with Jason on your tail, knowing that jason can't shift through a fence is the only thing protecting you from a quick death.

Yes Jason should be OP, but the councillor needs a fighting chance, even if that chance is low.

Also playing as Jason. I like having some restrictions, as it means more careful planning when to use and not use the shift ability.

I do see your points though about the car blocking doorways, and that may be an issue that people exploit.

 

 

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Just now, dandop1984 said:

I like a lot of your points, but I kinda like that Jason has some restrictions when it comes to shifting.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe Jason should be OP, but I feel if he can shift through cars or fences,and out of windows he would be unstoppable.

 a councillor who has low stamina and is caught out in the open with Jason on your tail, knowing that jason can't shift through a fence is the only thing protecting you from a quick death.

Yes Jason should be OP, but the councillor needs a fighting chance, even if that chance is low.

Also playing as Jason. I like having some restrictions, as it means more careful planning when to use and not use the shift ability.

I do see your points though about the car blocking doorways, and that may be an issue that people exploit.

 

 

Problem is that barriers are unintentional restrictions.  Often times people get stuck on a car or a tree out of mistake, not out of any intentional design choice to block them.  So it isn't a restriction its an annoyance, detracting from how Shift is supposed to work.

Doors and windows is one thing.  Cabins should obviously be impervious, but trees and fences and other such barriers aren't necessary and in fact, I'd argue that Jason NEEDS them, because even when fences and stuff are breakable, there are still plenty of looping spots.

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I think barriers should be intentional restrictions, as they are barriers.

I agree Looping is a big problem, and I hope with the addition of throwing knifes, and be able to break fences that looping won't be as common as it was in the beta.

Now regarding how I played as a councillor, I would intentionally stay off of roads, and trails as I knew it was very easy for Jason to shift along a path . I never looped, but I always tried to put trees or fences or cabins between me and Jason.

 

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Giving Jason the ability to Shift through stuff, and through objects would make him too OP.
Like Dan said, there has to be restrictions for the sake of balanced gameplay.

If Jason had the ability to shift through stuff, it would destroy the gameplay, and guaranteed, most would learn to be able to kill anyone farely quickly.
Jason can't shift through a fence, but he can unshift and break through it if need be, and then actually put on a chase.

Dan hit the nail on the head here, ... Jason has to calculate, plan, and make decisions just as much as the counselors do... The gameplay aesthetic for him should be just as challenging as it is for the counselors.  The counselors simply have to escape (one objective).  Jason has to get rid of 7 of them.  Being able to shift through things would null;

Window Mechanics.  Fence Destruction.  Object Placement.

The counselors need forms of escape, and things designed to help them with 'close call' situations.  Letting Jason just 'ghost' his way through stuff disrupts these gameplay mechanics, and would make for some VERY agitated counselor players.

Looping spots??? Use your throwing knives.. you don't need Shift for that.

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4 minutes ago, Laphin said:

Giving Jason the ability to Shift through stuff, and through objects would make him too OP.
Like Dan said, there has to be restrictions for the sake of balanced gameplay.

If Jason had the ability to shift through stuff, it would destroy the gameplay, and guaranteed, most would learn to be able to kill anyone farely quickly.
Jason can't shift through a fence, but he can unshift and break through it if need be, and then actually put on a chase.

Dan hit the nail on the head here, ... Jason has to calculate, plan, and make decisions just as much as the counselors do... The gameplay aesthetic for him should be just as challenging as it is for the counselors.  The counselors simply have to escape (one objective).  Jason has to get rid of 7 of them.  Being able to shift through things would null;

Window Mechanics.  Fence Destruction.  Object Placement.

The counselors need forms of escape, and things designed to help them with 'close call' situations.  Letting Jason just 'ghost' his way through stuff disrupts these gameplay mechanics, and would make for some VERY agitated counselor players.

Looping spots??? Use your throwing knives.. you don't need Shift for that.

Throwing knives are not of infinite supply, and as such, it will still be an issue.  But I understand where you're coming from.  We will see exactly how much throwing knives and breaking fences deter looping.

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26 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

I like a lot of your points, but I kinda like that Jason has some restrictions when it comes to shifting.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe Jason should be OP, but I feel if he can shift through cars or fences,and out of windows he would be unstoppable.

 a councillor who has low stamina and is caught out in the open with Jason on your tail, knowing that jason can't shift through a fence is the only thing protecting you from a quick death.

Yes Jason should be OP, but the councillor needs a fighting chance, even if that chance is low.

Also playing as Jason. I like having some restrictions, as it means more careful planning when to use and not use the shift ability.

I do see your points though about the car blocking doorways, and that may be an issue that people exploit.

 

 

You just gotta juke him in the open. If the windows are closed or broken he wouldn't be able to go through them. This would prevent him from smashing all windows as a tactic because he may have a chance to sneak in if they leave one open. So I don't think it's not too op. 

He's not ghosting through things. A spherical hitbox while shifting would allow him to flow more smoothly around and over stuff not ghost through walls and trees. The only thing I suggested he could go through is an open window while shifting. And since shift is so limited he can't abuse it.

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Juking in the open, isnt always easy unless you are a high stamina character, and even a high stamina character wouldn't stand a chance, if Jason can just shift through trees or fences. He would just be an unstoppable freight train plowing through the map. Killing everyone in his path.

The window idea is kinda cool, it would make councillors think twice about keeping a window open for a fast escape out of a cabin or back in a cabin, and how that could keep Jason from just smashing every window.

I just feel he does need some restrictions especially out doors in the open

 

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14 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

Juking in the open, isnt always easy unless you are a high stamina character, and even a high stamina character wouldn't stand a chance, if Jason can just shift through trees or fences. He would just be an unstoppable freight train plowing through the map. Killing everyone in his path.

The window idea is kinda cool, it would make councillors think twice about keeping a window open for a fast escape out of a cabin or back in a cabin, and how that could keep Jason from just smashing every window.

I just feel he does need some restrictions especially out doors in the open

 

I'm not suggesting he go through stuff just slide around or over obstacles more smoothly. As it is now he gets hung up small pieces of bad geometry. 

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2 hours ago, ResolutionBlaze said:

Throwing knives are not of infinite supply, and as such, it will still be an issue.  But I understand where you're coming from.  We will see exactly how much throwing knives and breaking fences deter looping.

Their not suppose to be of infinite supply.. there-in lies the challenge for Jason to go pick up more knives around the environment (which wastes time), or go look solely for counselors.  The decisions are up to Jason-player... Jason is not suppose to be a breeze to play, even tho he's OP.

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46 minutes ago, deadpaww said:

Jason should never be able to get through windows. Cabins are a safety net.

Nowhere is safe. And in this scenario he would only be able to go through an open unbroken window while shifting. That's a lot of conditions, so it's not like he would just be zipping in and out of windows all game. He could choose to break all but one limiting your escape routes and than you have to decide should I open window and risk him getting in or wait and he breaks down the door and you would be scrambling to open a window and get out. Meanwhile, he's thinking I only have one chance to get through this window because shift is limited maybe I should break the door. It gives both sides more decisions to make and has you second guessing what your best option is. Adding some panic and quick thinking to survive. 

Let me just say again I'm in no way saying he should pass through solid objects. 

The main point was to have Jason move smoothly around objects because he seems to get stuck on little things and allow him to shift over the car to stop the blocking of entrances. Windows was more of an after thought since he can't climb through them shifting would give a limited and way to get through them.

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20 minutes ago, Brigadius said:

Nowhere is safe. And in this scenario he would only be able to go through an open unbroken window while shifting. That's a lot of conditions, so it's not like he would just be zipping in and out of windows all game. He could choose to break all but one limiting your escape routes and than you have to decide should I open window and risk him getting in or wait and he breaks down the door and you would be scrambling to open a window and get out. Meanwhile, he's thinking I only have one chance to get through this window because shift is limited maybe I should break the door. It gives both sides more decisions to make and has you second guessing what your best option is. Adding some panic and quick thinking to survive. 

Let me just say again I'm in no way saying he should pass through solid objects. 

The main point was to have Jason move smoothly around objects because he seems to get stuck on little things and allow him to shift over the car to stop the blocking of entrances. Windows was more of an after thought since he can't climb through them shifting would give a limited and way to get through them.

Technically, yeah, nowhere is safe. Though cabins are supposed to be a place where counselors can go to regroup and hold Jason off for the time being.

I'm actually paraphrasing from Randy himself when I believe Mad Eye interviewed him. Allowing Jason to go through windows, open, broken, or closed, is not a good option. Besides, it's a viable strategy for counselors to keep the windows open for easy access in the future and escape.

 

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I agree cabins should be safe zones, or temporarily safe zones before Jason rages through the front door

I do see your point that the shift could be smoother, and could keep people from getting frustrated with the controls 

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9 hours ago, deadpaww said:

I'm actually paraphrasing from Randy himself when I believe Mad Eye interviewed him. Allowing Jason to go through windows, open, broken, or closed, is not a good option. Besides, it's a viable strategy for counselors to keep the windows open for easy access in the future and escape.

While windows aren't the main point I'm happy to discuss it. I haven't seen that interview but I'd be willing to bet he was talking about climbing through windows not using your very limited special ability to go through a window only if it's open. You see what I'm saying? Shift is the 3rd ability to unlock I believe? So you wouldn't even be able to do it right away and even then with having to wait for recharge of ability you would only get a chance to do it a few times if you found an open window. 

8 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

I agree cabins should be safe zones, or temporarily safe zones before Jason rages through the front door

I do see your point that the shift could be smoother, and could keep people from getting frustrated with the controls 

Nothing would stop them from being temporary safe zones if the windows were closed. One of my biggest concerns is them becoming permanent safe zones if the entrance gets block off. 

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1 hour ago, Brigadius said:

Nothing would stop them from being temporary safe zones if the windows were closed. One of my biggest concerns is them becoming permanent safe zones if the entrance gets block off. 

Once Jason hits Rage stage, no safe zone is permanent.

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Hmm, what if once Rage is activated, destructible objects take damage until broken through when "pressure" is applied while in Shift?

Probably not a good idea, but it would be neat to simulate something from Evil Dead.

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10 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Hmm, what if once Rage is activated, destructible objects take damage until broken through when "pressure" is applied while in Shift?

Probably not a good idea, but it would be neat to simulate something from Evil Dead.

I actually don't think I would have a problem with him rage shifting through doors and fences. But, it doesn't fix a car blocking the only door issue unless the shift let's you move over the car. 

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13 hours ago, Brigadius said:

While windows aren't the main point I'm happy to discuss it. I haven't seen that interview but I'd be willing to bet he was talking about climbing through windows not using your very limited special ability to go through a window only if it's open. You see what I'm saying? Shift is the 3rd ability to unlock I believe? So you wouldn't even be able to do it right away and even then with having to wait for recharge of ability you would only get a chance to do it a few times if you found an open window. 

Nothing would stop them from being temporary safe zones if the windows were closed. One of my biggest concerns is them becoming permanent safe zones if the entrance gets block off. 

Actually I think he was talking about shifting into the windows but either way I know it was against just going into them, at all.

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