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It has come to my concern that two of the counselors are very similar in their stats and style of play. As shown by their stats on the "Counselors Stats (Near Final)" by wes.

 

I love all the counselors, they are all very unique and I would hate for one to be picked over another simply because one is "better" than the other, rather, one should be picked over the other due to style of play. Which is why I am concerned for Eric Lachappa. Many people have noted that Eric and Deborah's stats are blatantly similar and that the only major difference is that Eric is slightly slower than Deborah.

 

I quote two popular youtubers:

 

"My personal recommendation for those who want to play the bookish girl: Just hang out with ol' Eric Lachappa because you don't always have to be the fastest player to survive you just have to be faster than Lachappa when Jason's around" -CharminEXSoft Gaming

 

"I wonder what's gonna make him stand out, you know what I mean, like, he's slower than Deborah meaning he can get away less faster. I mean the 1 strength boost or 2 strength boost that he has over Deborah... I- I don't really see him being played a lot, I gotta be honest with you, I think Deborah is the better pick all around... So I'm going to go ahead and say that Deborah is a better choice." -Skilled Apple

 

I'm not saying that these two people are "the all-knowing sages of stat balancing" but what I am saying is that I'm not the only one who has seen this problem and my concerns are shared and valid. (Btw they're both pretty cool so you can watch some of their stuff if you want)

 

The stats for comparison's sake are

Stat                              Eric Lachappa                                  Deborah Kim

Composure                             4                                                       5

Luck                                        5                                                       3

Intelligence                            10                                                     10

Speed                                     3                                                       4

Stamina                                  2                                                       3

Stealth                                    8                                                       9

Strength                                  3                                                       1

 

Basically, the difference is that Eric's 2 extra points in strength are Deborah's 2 points in speed and stamina (shown by the red numbers)

Eric's 2 points in luck are from the 1 less in composure and stealth when compared to Deborah. (Shown by the blue numbers)

That's it. 4 points moved around in an uninfluential way.

 

There is hardly any difference between the two. At least not anything drastic enough to make them feel unique. I am a fan of the intelligence characters, I played mostly as Deborah when I unlocked her during the beta, I really don't want people to feel as if Eric is subpar or that Deborah is subpar. Neither should be above the other. I hope that others agree with me as well. Something should be done and this is the best way to make it known.

 

Adam's stats were balanced due to a character issue. His stats were not on par with his personality, this is fine and I'm overjoyed to see the way that the team balanced him. It was a tactful and swift resolve. I'm hoping that something similar will be done for this issue. Not simply because I'm unhappy about it, rather it is an important balancing issue between two characters that are so similar that one seems dilatory due to their overbearing resemblance. I've made good points, brought in direct quotes of others who agree with me, and been civil all the way through. This issue merits some sort of attention. 

 

If you agree or disagree feel free to discuss, after all that is the point of a forum. If you can think of a way to balance them out then also feel free to share. I'll be following this topic closely since I'm curious to see what everyone thinks of this issue. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

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Im not entirely convinced of Erics stat distribution, but I feel that way mainly due to the subpar nature of luck and strength during the beta.

 

Strength was utter shit during the beta, and Luck was ???

 

If they lowered the value of Stamina and speed and buffed the value of STR and Luck than I would be more okay with it... but we aren't really sure how they tuned the stats post beta.

 

At a glance from a beta player Eric looks like a more shitty version of Kim. I hope that's not the case.

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While I agree that Deborah is clearly superior to Eric and they are way too similiar, I honestly have sat staring at both of their stats and can't really figure out a way to rebalance their stats that makes them both stand out different from one another while ALSO being true to their character tropes.

 

My only solution to the problem would be to give them both the same stats so picking one is based on preference without one being better or worse than the other. If they're gonna be that similiar and essentially the same char only with Deborah being a bit better, you might as well have them be identical.

 

But hopefully someone can suggest a better rebalancing of their stats to make them stand out seperately from one another while still remaining true to their characters. Because the last part was where I struggled with. You can easily change their stats to make them different, that's not an issue. But making those stats make sense to their characters? That's where the struggle comes in. About the only place I think Eric really could use to gain on is Strength because heavy set people may not have muscle strength but they do definitely have strength in their weight and thus can hit harder and be more resilient compared to their skinny counterparts despite lack of muscle.

 

But obviously that's not a very appealing trait switch because Strength isn't as viable as stealth and composure. So Kim would still be more viable.

 

You could increase his Luck as well but again, it's another stat that isn't exactly the most desired. And you still need to pull stats off to allow pushing up Strength or Luck. And the only place you could really pull from without really hurting him would be his Stealth or Composure. Both of which are the most appealing stats. But he already has terrible speed and stamina so you don't want to take from there, you obviously don't wanna take from his Intelligence because that's his trope, so it doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room for him.

 

Thus again I'm at a loss for how to properly balance him to make him different from Kim. 

 

I considered trying to rebalance Kim instead, but ran into almost the same issues I had with Eric in trying to find where to tweak her stats that didn't hurt her but also still made sense to her char.

 

It's not easy.

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The first thought I had when I read the stats update was that Eric and Deb were basically the same, and that something should be done to differentiate them more.
 
Here is my solution:
 
I view Deb as intelligent but somewhat strong and Eric as intelligent but socially awkward and a bit of a coward. Thus it makes sense to give Deb decent composure, I think, whereas Eric should be kind of a chicken with low composure.
 
Since Eric is out of shape, he should have the lowest stamina and speed. He does have the lowest stamina, but his speed is on par with Jenny, which I am not sure makes total sense. If you could reduce his speed to 2 without making him so slow that no one will play him, that might be something to consider. It might be hilarious to make him so slow and out of shape that everyone works extra hard to keep the fat guy alive. That's kind of how it should be.
 
Fat people are usually pretty strong. Carrying around that weight can build muscle. But are fat people stealthy? Not really. Their big body alone makes it harder for them to hide in certain areas. Thus, having Eric with 8 stealth does not make any sense to me. Out of shape people also have a hard time breathing, and typically are louder when they breathe, especially if they have been running to escape Jason. That extra noise factor adds to the senselessness of Eric's stealth rating.

Here's how I would do Eric's stats.
 
Stat                              Eric Lachappa                              
Composure                             3          (-1) - 3 way tie for 2nd lowest.                                         
Luck                                        9          (+4)  - tied with Jenny for 2nd highest.
Intelligence                            10          (0)   - tied for first                       
Speed                                     2           (-1)   - Lowest                 
Stamina                                  2            (0)    - Lowest                  
Stealth                                    2            (-6)   - tied 2nd lowest (I would reduce Vanessa's luck and give her a point or two more in stealth while you're at it)                  
Strength                                  7            (+4)  - 3rd best.                                  
 
Bam. Now Eric is remarkably his own type of dude. He is super out of shape and unable to hide, but he is the 3rd strongest dude, which makes total sense (do you think a woman who sprints could overpower a fat guy? unlikely). His method of escaping from Jason is relying on other people, fighting back, and being extremely lucky.

 

It makes sense for a nerd to be blessed by RNGesus.

The only thing I would wonder, from a gameplay perspective, is if anyone would actually <want> to help Eric, considering that his low composure and stealth would make him easy for Jason to find. He would expose the whole group. But should anyone? Maybe this fact would make gameplay even more hilarious and fun, because some people would try to help Eric, whereas other people would let him die and do their own thing.

Sounds good to me. Thoughts?

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The first thought I had when I read the stats update was that Eric and Deb were basically the same, and that something should be done to differentiate them more.

 

Here is my solution:

 

I view Deb as intelligent but somewhat strong and Eric as intelligent but socially awkward and a bit of a coward. Thus it makes sense to give Deb decent composure, I think, whereas Eric should be kind of a chicken with low composure.

 

Since Eric is out of shape, he should have the lowest stamina and speed. He does have the lowest stamina, but his speed is on par with Jenny, which I am not sure makes total sense. If you could reduce his speed to 2 without making him so slow that no one will play him, that might be something to consider. It might be hilarious to make him so slow and out of shape that everyone works extra hard to keep the fat guy alive. That's kind of how it should be.

 

Fat people are usually pretty strong. Carrying around that weight can build muscle. But are fat people stealthy? Not really. Their big body alone makes it harder for them to hide in certain areas. Thus, having Eric with 8 stealth does not make any sense to me. Out of shape people also have a hard time breathing, and typically are louder when they breathe, especially if they have been running to escape Jason. That extra noise factor adds to the senselessness of Eric's stealth rating.

 

Here's how I would do Eric's stats.

 

Stat                              Eric Lachappa                              

Composure                             3          (-1)                                          

Luck                                        9          (+4)                             

Intelligence                            10          (0)                                   

Speed                                     2           (-1)                                      

Stamina                                  2            (0)                                    

Stealth                                    2            (-6)                                     

Strength                                  7            (+4)                                    

 

Bam. Now Eric is remarkably his own type of dude. He is super out of shape and unable to hide, but he is the 3rd strongest dude, which makes total sense (do you think a woman who sprints could overpower a fat guy? unlikely). His method of escaping from Jason is relying on other people, fighting back, and being extremely lucky.

 

It makes sense for a nerd to be blessed by RNGesus.

 

Actually hes basically Adam at that point. I like the idea of Eric being an alternative sneaker a type that we don't already have.

 

My current thoughts are a kind of hyper Intelligent Luck Sneaker. (Borrowing your spreadsheet.)

 

Stat                              Eric Lachappa                              

Composure                             4                                                

Luck                                        7                                   

Intelligence                            10                                        

Speed                                     2                                               

Stamina                                  2                                              

Stealth                                    8                                                

Strength                                  2     

 

Hes super slow but has absurd luck/stealth/intelligence. He would promote a quirky kind of play style where he lurks around and tries to control his immediate area (because hes not mobile enough to run around gathering parts.)

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They should change Eric to difference him better:

Composure: 4/10 (+0)

Luck: 5/10 (+0)

Intelligence: 9/10 (-1)

Speed: 4/10 (+1)

Stamina: 1/10 (-1)

Stealth: 6/10 (-2)

Strength: 6/10 (+3)

Deborah still sneeky and weak while Eric is more mid-strengthed. He looks like he's not that weak.

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Actually hes basically Adam at that point. I like the idea of Eric being an alternative sneaker a type that we don't already have.

 

My current thoughts are a kind of hyper Intelligent Luck Sneaker. (Borrowing your spreadsheet.)

 

Stat                              Eric Lachappa                              

Composure                             4                                                

Luck                                        7                                   

Intelligence                            10                                        

Speed                                     2                                               

Stamina                                  2                                              

Stealth                                    8                                                

Strength                                  2     

 

Hes super slow but has absurd luck/stealth/intelligence. He would promote a quirky kind of play style where he lurks around and tries to control his immediate area (because hes not mobile enough to run around gathering parts.)

I respectfully disagree. I can't get on board with the idea that Eric should be stealthy and weak, especially if he is weaker than a lot of the female characters. I exercise a lot and lift weights personally, but I know that a lot of fat dudes could overpower me. He's not that similar to Adam with the way I had planned. Adam has average stamina/speed and high composure. Those are all huge flaws in the Eric I envisioned. The only thing they really have in common is strength and a lack of stealth. Adam's intelligent, but he's not nearly as intelligent as Eric.

 

Did you guys ever have a fat friend that you played hide and seek with as a kid? If you did, I bet you found his ass every time. Every time.

 

Maybe I would give him 4 composure and 6 strength. Eric should beat Kenny and every female in an arm wrestling contest.

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Just throwing ideas around, but maybe a way to differentiate Eric and Deb could be to change Deb, instead of changing Eric. 


 


I like the idea of Deb being a light on her feet bookworm, but I admit I was surprised when I saw how high her composure was (even though I thought it was cool). I like the idea that it means she's so smart that she stays collected and practical instead of freaking out, but in the spirit of not having two identical counselors :


 


-Maybe her stealth could drop to 7, which is still very good. Her composure could drop to 2. This would free up some points to raise her speed to 9. The way I see how it fits is the Nerd and the Bookish girls tropes aren't especially brave, so it would make sense one of them would be prone to darting away from danger (even though they couldn't get far due to low stamina).


 


Since I can't see Eric being a racecar, Deb could become a smart and fast counselor with good stealth, but who gets scared easily.

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I think Deb is perfect the way she is lol, but Eric is too weak to be a fatty dude.

 

I agree! But what stats make sense thematically for Eric?

 

His intelligence is a given. However, he's out of shape, stamina and speed should be low.

 

The nerd is often a coward in horror films, he isn't the hero, so composure should be low.

 

I think his strenght should be low, because there's a difference between strenght and weight. Sure he could win a pushing contest against some of the smaller guys and the female counselors, but I'm pretty sure these same guys and female counselors who are in shape hit harder than him.

 

I personnally don't think of the Nerd as a « lucky » archetype, he's often the butt of jokes and is overlooked by his crushes.

 

Lastly even his stealth is debatable. I think it makes sense because he goes under the radar, sort of a wallflower, but some people say that he shouldn't be stealthy because he's heavyset, and I also see their point.

 

That's why I think it might be easier, if people are dedicated to differentiating Eric and Deb, to change Deb, because more stats could believably apply to her archetype than to Eric's.

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That is a good point about luck. It seems like Eric must either be too lucky or too stealthy to make sense. Fat people can hit hard, though.

When I try to average out luck/stealth as a solution, it only seems like Eric is then both too lucky and too stealthy rather than solving the problem.

Novel idea: What if Eric is just a massively flawed character that is intended to be weak compared to the rest of the counselors? When you choose Eric, you are doing it as a challenge to yourself or your group.

Stat                              Eric Lachappa                              
Composure                            3          (-1)                                    
Luck                                       3          (-2)
Intelligence                            10          (0)                     
Speed                                    2           (-1)                
Stamina                                 2            (0)                 
Stealth                                   3            (-5) 
Strength                                 6            (+3)             
   

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While I agree that Deborah is clearly superior to Eric and they are way too similiar, I honestly have sat staring at both of their stats and can't really figure out a way to rebalance their stats that makes them both stand out different from one another while ALSO being true to their character tropes.

 

My only solution to the problem would be to give them both the same stats so picking one is based on preference without one being better or worse than the other. If they're gonna be that similiar and essentially the same char only with Deborah being a bit better, you might as well have them be identical.

 

But hopefully someone can suggest a better rebalancing of their stats to make them stand out seperately from one another while still remaining true to their characters. Because the last part was where I struggled with. You can easily change their stats to make them different, that's not an issue. But making those stats make sense to their characters? That's where the struggle comes in. About the only place I think Eric really could use to gain on is Strength because heavy set people may not have muscle strength but they do definitely have strength in their weight and thus can hit harder and be more resilient compared to their skinny counterparts despite lack of muscle.

 

But obviously that's not a very appealing trait switch because Strength isn't as viable as stealth and composure. So Kim would still be more viable.

 

You could increase his Luck as well but again, it's another stat that isn't exactly the most desired. And you still need to pull stats off to allow pushing up Strength or Luck. And the only place you could really pull from without really hurting him would be his Stealth or Composure. Both of which are the most appealing stats. But he already has terrible speed and stamina so you don't want to take from there, you obviously don't wanna take from his Intelligence because that's his trope, so it doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room for him.

 

Thus again I'm at a loss for how to properly balance him to make him different from Kim. 

 

I considered trying to rebalance Kim instead, but ran into almost the same issues I had with Eric in trying to find where to tweak her stats that didn't hurt her but also still made sense to her char.

 

It's not easy.

Deborah is already very balanced and fits into her trope quite well as of now. I don't think that adjusting her stats will do her much good.

I and a multitude of other players would be upset if Deborah and Eric ended up being reskins of each other.

It isn't easy, you make a lot of great arguments.

 

The first thought I had when I read the stats update was that Eric and Deb were basically the same, and that something should be done to differentiate them more.

 

Here is my solution:

 

I view Deb as intelligent but somewhat strong and Eric as intelligent but socially awkward and a bit of a coward. Thus it makes sense to give Deb decent composure, I think, whereas Eric should be kind of a chicken with low composure.

 

Since Eric is out of shape, he should have the lowest stamina and speed. He does have the lowest stamina, but his speed is on par with Jenny, which I am not sure makes total sense. If you could reduce his speed to 2 without making him so slow that no one will play him, that might be something to consider. It might be hilarious to make him so slow and out of shape that everyone works extra hard to keep the fat guy alive. That's kind of how it should be.

 

Fat people are usually pretty strong. Carrying around that weight can build muscle. But are fat people stealthy? Not really. Their big body alone makes it harder for them to hide in certain areas. Thus, having Eric with 8 stealth does not make any sense to me. Out of shape people also have a hard time breathing, and typically are louder when they breathe, especially if they have been running to escape Jason. That extra noise factor adds to the senselessness of Eric's stealth rating.

 

Here's how I would do Eric's stats.

 

Stat                              Eric Lachappa                              

Composure                             3          (-1) - 3 way tie for 2nd lowest.                                         

Luck                                        9          (+4)  - tied with Jenny for 2nd highest.

Intelligence                            10          (0)   - tied for first                       

Speed                                     2           (-1)   - Lowest                 

Stamina                                  2            (0)    - Lowest                  

Stealth                                    2            (-6)   - tied 2nd lowest (I would reduce Vanessa's luck and give her a point or two more in stealth while you're at it)                  

Strength                                  7            (+4)  - 3rd best.                                  

 

Bam. Now Eric is remarkably his own type of dude. He is super out of shape and unable to hide, but he is the 3rd strongest dude, which makes total sense (do you think a woman who sprints could overpower a fat guy? unlikely). His method of escaping from Jason is relying on other people, fighting back, and being extremely lucky.

 

It makes sense for a nerd to be blessed by RNGesus.

 

The only thing I would wonder, from a gameplay perspective, is if anyone would actually <want> to help Eric, considering that his low composure and stealth would make him easy for Jason to find. He would expose the whole group. But should anyone? Maybe this fact would make gameplay even more hilarious and fun, because some people would try to help Eric, whereas other people would let him die and do their own thing.

Sounds good to me. Thoughts?

First, some criticism, increasing Deb's composure recreates this same problem, but this time with Deb and A.J. so we can scratch that off the list.

 

Now, I really like your idea for Eric's balancing, I think the changes are a bit drastic, however and that although Eric is... heavy, he shouldn't be as noisy as a jock or almost as strong as Adam.

 

Nerds are quiet, that's their trope. I agree that he should not be as stealthy as he is, and not as stealthy as Deb for sure, but he is not a naturally noisy personality. 

instead, I would suggest these edits

 

Stat                                        Eric

Composure                            3 (-1)

Luck                                       7 (+2)

Intelligence                            10 (0)

Speed                                    3 (0)

Stamina                                 2 (0)

Stealth                                   5 (-3)

Strength                                 5 (+2)

 

The increased luck and strength allow him to fight Jason off which is something Deborah can't do, while Deborah will run off which is something Eric can't do.

 

Let me explain why I think these stats are original by addressing the concerns of another user

 

Actually hes basically Adam at that point. I like the idea of Eric being an alternative sneaker a type that we don't already have.

 

My current thoughts are a kind of hyper Intelligent Luck Sneaker. (Borrowing your spreadsheet.)

 

Stat                              Eric Lachappa                              

Composure                             4                                                

Luck                                        7                                   

Intelligence                            10                                        

Speed                                     2                                               

Stamina                                  2                                              

Stealth                                    8                                                

Strength                                  2     

 

Hes super slow but has absurd luck/stealth/intelligence. He would promote a quirky kind of play style where he lurks around and tries to control his immediate area (because hes not mobile enough to run around gathering parts.)

My suggested build (Plox's edited build) doesn't make a second Adam for two reasons

1. He's too slow

If Jason has someone grabbed he won't run over and save them since he wouldn't have the stamina to run away after hitting him which means that his strength is for self-defense only, which complements his trope.

He simply doesn't have enough stamina to be a fighter like Adam.

2. Low-composure

Adam has a solid composure which lets him stay calm while Jason is near, Eric is lacking this which makes him easier to kill the more you mess with him. Eric's strategy is not to get caught and if he does then to leave ASAP without stopping for anyone or anything else to keep his fear in check. 

Adam and Eric play differently with these stats. 

 

Adam is a defender who stays calm and can also repair things, Eric is a repairman that can hide and fights only for himself. (At least with Plox's edited stats)

I hope the difference is more clear.

 

Taking away from his strength and speed just make him a pitiful choice since there's no way for him to put up a fight against Jason. At all.

Nice catch on avoiding the re-creation of the same scenario between Adam and Eric though.

 

I think Deb is perfect the way she is lol, but Eric is too weak to be a fatty dude.

I respectfully disagree. I can't get on board with the idea that Eric should be stealthy and weak, especially if he is weaker than a lot of the female characters. I exercise a lot and lift weights personally, but I know that a lot of fat dudes could overpower me. He's not that similar to Adam with the way I had planned. Adam has average stamina/speed and high composure. Those are all huge flaws in the Eric I envisioned. The only thing they really have in common is strength and a lack of stealth. Adam's intelligent, but he's not nearly as intelligent as Eric.

 

Did you guys ever have a fat friend that you played hide and seek with as a kid? If you did, I bet you found his ass every time. Every time.

 

Maybe I would give him 4 composure and 6 strength. Eric should beat Kenny and every female in an arm wrestling contest.

Eric's strength and stealth are now equal to those of Kenny's. Kenny is a bit strong and noisy because of his muscle while Eric is "strong" and noisy because of his weight. 

I can't see Eric being any stronger than Kenny however. He may be heavy but he's a nerd, he doesn't work out nor is he in shape. Remember the stronger he gets the farther out of his trope he falls

 

In conclusion, Eric should use his average stealth and stay low to keep off the radar. He can repair things quickly and then hide out. If he gets chased he has a chance to put up a fight and then break away, if he lands a hit on Jason he gets a second wind from that extra stamina gained from his high luck and the heightened chance of a stun from the average strength. He may be able to pull this off multiple times if there's a good player behind the screen since the weapon is also more durable. However, the longer he is chased, the thinner his chances run due to his low composure, he'll stumble and it'll be hard to tell where he's going or where Jason is without the mini-map. Once his weapon does break it won't be long till he's caught due to his inability to run and no more stamina boosts.

 

This is very different from Deborah, Deborah can't fight Jason. If she lands a hit, it probably won't stun due to horrible strength and won't regain much stamina due to low luck. She'd run from Jason and then hide to try and juke him. It is possible for her to sneak around him since she has very high stealth and average composure. Her high intelligence lets her repair things and then dash away before hiding again. Her strategy is also not to be caught by Jason which is easier for her due to her higher stealth and composure.

The difference between them is their reaction once Jason appears and how careful they both have to be. Deborah can jog around more while Eric has to keep low to take advantage of his stealth. These two things make a big difference and keep both characters unique.

 

This is just a suggestion however. Thank you to everyone who has responded as of now. I'm glad to see other's who care so much about this issue!

Thanks for reading another one of my long posts.

 

EDIT TO RESPOND TO NEW POST

 

That is a good point about luck. It seems like Eric must either be too lucky or too stealthy to make sense. Fat people can hit hard, though.

When I try to average out luck/stealth as a solution, it only seems like Eric is then both too lucky and too stealthy rather than solving the problem.

Novel idea: What if Eric is just a massively flawed character that is intended to be weak compared to the rest of the counselors? When you choose Eric, you are doing it as a challenge to yourself or your group.

Stat                              Eric Lachappa                              

Composure                            3          (-1)                                    

Luck                                       3          (-2)

Intelligence                            10          (0)                     

Speed                                    2           (-1)                

Stamina                                 2            (0)                 

Stealth                                   3            (-5) 

Strength                                 6            (+3)             

   

The thought of a challenge counselor is interesting but is not what Eric is intended to be. Also every counselor's stats must add up to 35, yours falls short. You were closer on your last posts in my opinion. (God bless RNGesus)

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Yeah, I think they should leave Deb's stats the way they are and change Eric's.

agreed

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Im not entirely convinced of Erics stat distribution, but I feel that way mainly due to the subpar nature of luck and strength during the beta.

 

Strength was utter shit during the beta, and Luck was ???

 

If they lowered the value of Stamina and speed and buffed the value of STR and Luck than I would be more okay with it... but we aren't really sure how they tuned the stats post beta.

 

At a glance from a beta player Eric looks like a more shitty version of Kim. I hope that's not the case.

 

Well, let's be honest: we didn't have any strong characters in the beta.  The strongest we had was Kenny.  And he only had 5 strength.

 

So yeah It'd make sense that Strength was shit.  Because everyone had shit strength.

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Well, let's be honest: we didn't have any strong characters in the beta.  The strongest we had was Kenny.  And he only had 5 strength.

 

So yeah It'd make sense that Strength was shit.  Because everyone had shit strength.

Either way, the manner in which Eric's stats are distributed as of now still make his strength crappy. He's far from strong so any extra strength when compared to Deborah is rather dilatory in his case. They're both weaker than Kenny so it's as if they were beta characters anyway.

 

I really see a stat change as a necessary step in ensuring that he is a desired character to play during the full release of the game.  

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EDIT TO RESPOND TO NEW POST

 

The thought of a challenge counselor is interesting but is not what Eric is intended to be. Also every counselor's stats must add up to 35, yours falls short. You were closer on your last posts in my opinion. (God bless RNGesus)

 

I liked your post and you made some good points about Eric's strength and stealth. I think 5 is a good number for both of those stats for him. Maybe I would still give him 4 stealth. I don't see why muscles make someone less stealthy.

 

But the point "stats adding up to 35" was ignoring my point. He was intentionally supposed to have much less than 35 in that scenario so that he would be the "challenging flawed character." If he had equivalent points as everyone else then he would just be another character variation instead of especially challenging. Intentions can change. 

 

Really, when you think of the trope of a fat nerd, he's not supposed to have composure, luck, stealth, speed, stamina, or strength. If you are going to be stuck on the idea of the trope, then you almost have to embrace an exceptionally flawed and under-skilled character.

Or embrace the blessings of RNGesus and a 5-6 strengthed fatty.

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This is the problem you run into when you want a similar character from two different genders.

 

It would've been easier to make Eric a skin alternative to Deborah. He could keep his name, but keep the same stats. The trade off would be Deb would not have an alternate set of clothes. Unless they wanted to keep that too.

 

But then everybody would want the opposite gender of every single trope. We already sort of have that with Bugsy and Vanessa. We already sort of have that with AJ and Adam. Adam is definitely a rock music kind of guy, and him and AJ would be a thing. Chad and Jenny seem to be a thing. So in actuality, they all sort of have their opposite gender trope. I'm unsure who Tiffany's opposite is? Maybe Kenny I suspect.

 

So actually, Eric and Deb would be the most likely to be a thing.

 

Keep in mind, I don't give a single shit about shipping. Not trying to go down that road here at all.

 

The other alternative would've been to have only as many counselors as the stats indicate.

 

So only 7 counselors instead of 10.

 

All of them have 1/10 stats and their best stat is a 10/10. Lazy balance, but easier balance.

 

So Adam or AJ is out, despite popularity. Eric or Deb is out. Vanessa or Bugsy is out.

 

So...

 

1. Vanessa  - 1/10 in everything except speed

2. Adam  - 1/10 in everything except strength

3. Deb  - 1/10 in everything except intelligence

4. Jenny - 1/10 in everything except composure

5. Tiffany - 1/0 in everything except stamina

6. Kenny - 1/10 in everything except stealth

7. Chad - 1/0 in everything except luck

 

So 3 counselors go, the rest end up with 1/10 except their 10/10 great stat. Easy, but lazy.

 

Rather than worrying about a couple +/- in the stats. We make it much easier to understand. This also opens the door for perks to feel really useful.

 

If Tina ever enters the game via DLC as an alternative hero pick to Tommy. At least she'll be easy, 10/10 for everything with a side dish of telekinesis to boot. Maybe with a reduction in speed/stamina to offset that power.

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The thing about fat nerds is that their strength is super unbalanced. They essentially do constant leg presses anytime they move over the course of the day, but they can't bench press for crap.

In combat if a fat nerd had you on the ground, he could curb-stomp you like nobody's business. He could also jump his weight onto you and pin you down. Contrary to what has been said before, though, he would *not* win at arm wrestling.

 

If you sucked all the fat out of a fat nerd, he could jump 8 feet high, or run a marathon, but he can't because all the strength and stamina is used to move his fat around.

So while Eric is probably super strong in some ways, you can't really express it in a single stat. For *most* purposes he would probably be considered not that strong, since the strength is concentrated in his legs and most of the time they are used lifting his body.

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I think his composure is pretty good. In all respects, Eric seems to be a lot like Shelley from 3. While a bit timid and awkward, he stood up to Ali and ran over their motorcycles, proving he had the nerve to stand up for himself. I don't think lowering his composure is the best way around it, maybe make his Intelligence a 9, his stealth a 7, and bumping his luck to 6 and his strength to 4 but I think he's in a good place.

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He most certainly would beat most women at arm wrestling. It's just a weight thing after a certain point. It allows you to resist being moved and to apply more force, which is a sort of strength. Among all people who do not train, the fatter people are typically stronger than the less fat.

But when you think about what the strength statistic actually means, the force applied to the use of a weapon, then you can consider the fact that technique is the most important factor. Thus, maybe someone like Vanessa <should> be stronger than Eric, because she might be trained or just generally have better technique when swinging a baseball bat or something like that.

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It has come to my concern that two of the counselors are very similar in their stats and style of play. As shown by their stats on the "Counselors Stats (Near Final)" by wes.

 

I love all the counselors, they are all very unique and I would hate for one to be picked over another simply because one is "better" than the other, rather, one should be picked over the other due to style of play. Which is why I am concerned for Eric Lachappa. Many people have noted that Eric and Deborah's stats are blatantly similar and that the only major difference is that Eric is slightly slower than Deborah.

 

I quote two popular youtubers:

 

"My personal recommendation for those who want to play the bookish girl: Just hang out with ol' Eric Lachappa because you don't always have to be the fastest player to survive you just have to be faster than Lachappa when Jason's around" -CharminEXSoft Gaming

 

"I wonder what's gonna make him stand out, you know what I mean, like, he's slower than Deborah meaning he can get away less faster. I mean the 1 strength boost or 2 strength boost that he has over Deborah... I- I don't really see him being played a lot, I gotta be honest with you, I think Deborah is the better pick all around... So I'm going to go ahead and say that Deborah is a better choice." -Skilled Apple

 

I'm not saying that these two people are "the all-knowing sages of stat balancing" but what I am saying is that I'm not the only one who has seen this problem and my concerns are shared and valid. (Btw they're both pretty cool so you can watch some of their stuff if you want)

I appreciate the compliment!

 

I am glad to see we could have a nice discussion about this, because I feel like these 2 were the most similar and maybe needed a touch to make them a tiny bit different and more viable in different situations.

 

I agree! But what stats make sense thematically for Eric?

 

His intelligence is a given. However, he's out of shape, stamina and speed should be low.

 

The nerd is often a coward in horror films, he isn't the hero, so composure should be low.

 

I think his strenght should be low, because there's a difference between strenght and weight. Sure he could win a pushing contest against some of the smaller guys and the female counselors, but I'm pretty sure these same guys and female counselors who are in shape hit harder than him.

 

I personnally don't think of the Nerd as a « lucky » archetype, he's often the butt of jokes and is overlooked by his crushes.

 

Lastly even his stealth is debatable. I think it makes sense because he goes under the radar, sort of a wallflower, but some people say that he shouldn't be stealthy because he's heavyset, and I also see their point.

 

That's why I think it might be easier, if people are dedicated to differentiating Eric and Deb, to change Deb, because more stats could believably apply to her archetype than to Eric's.

Very good points! I actually would like to think that the nerd would be lucky, just because they play D&D and stuff like that, and in movies they just seem to know what to do in a situation when there's nothing to do. I know it's a farfetch'd idea, but it's what was in my head.

 

is strength I think could get a boost, I mean he is a bigger guy - and obviously bigger guys hit harder! His stealth I feel is a weird area, because what you mentioned makes sense. Though, once again, I feel like a nerd has trained for this moment of "hiding from danger" because he has probably had it rough and needed to hide. He also plays D&D, and he learned stealth is important there, too. Don't question my logic lol.

 

As for Deb, I think Deb is right at her sweet spot. I'd hate to see them touch her stats too hard!

 

 

He most certainly would beat most women at arm wrestling. It's just a weight thing after a certain point. It allows you to resist being moved and to apply more force, which is a sort of strength. Among all people who do not train, the fatter people are typically stronger than the less fat.

But when you think about what the strength statistic actually means, the force applied to the use of a weapon, then you can consider the fact that technique is the most important factor. Thus, maybe someone like Vanessa <should> be stronger than Eric, because she might be trained or just generally have better technique when swinging a baseball bat or something like that.

Good points. He's got the strength, but does he know how to use it. Very fine point. 

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This is the problem you run into when you want a similar character from two different genders.

 

It would've been easier to make Eric a skin alternative to Deborah. He could keep his name, but keep the same stats. The trade off would be Deb would not have an alternate set of clothes. Unless they wanted to keep that too.

 

But then everybody would want the opposite gender of every single trope. We already sort of have that with Bugsy and Vanessa. We already sort of have that with AJ and Adam. Adam is definitely a rock music kind of guy, and him and AJ would be a thing. Chad and Jenny seem to be a thing. So in actuality, they all sort of have their opposite gender trope. I'm unsure who Tiffany's opposite is? Maybe Kenny I suspect.

 

So actually, Eric and Deb would be the most likely to be a thing.

 

Keep in mind, I don't give a single shit about shipping. Not trying to go down that road here at all.

 

The other alternative would've been to have only as many counselors as the stats indicate.

 

So only 7 counselors instead of 10.

 

All of them have 1/10 stats and their best stat is a 10/10. Lazy balance, but easier balance.

 

So Adam or AJ is out, despite popularity. Eric or Deb is out. Vanessa or Bugsy is out.

 

So...

 

1. Vanessa  - 1/10 in everything except speed

2. Adam  - 1/10 in everything except strength

3. Deb  - 1/10 in everything except intelligence

4. Jenny - 1/10 in everything except composure

5. Tiffany - 1/0 in everything except stamina

6. Kenny - 1/10 in everything except stealth

7. Chad - 1/0 in everything except luck

 

So 3 counselors go, the rest end up with 1/10 except their 10/10 great stat. Easy, but lazy.

 

Rather than worrying about a couple +/- in the stats. We make it much easier to understand. This also opens the door for perks to feel really useful.

 

If Tina ever enters the game via DLC as an alternative hero pick to Tommy. At least she'll be easy, 10/10 for everything with a side dish of telekinesis to boot. Maybe with a reduction in speed/stamina to offset that power.

This solution changes the very foundation of the character design which is something I doubt the developers are willing to do. Also, it would make anyone who isn't Vanessa or Tiffany a terrible runner and they would never be able to get away even if they tried. It removes characters from the game (which some people have paid to have themselves made as counselors) which also reduces verity. Not to mention the M/F counterparts to each other are quite different from each other.

Chad can run but Jenny can't

Jenny can stay calm but Chad can't

Adam can fight, A.J. can't

A.J. can hide, Adam can't

Tiffany and Kenny are very different from each other.

Vanessa is a runner, Buggzy is a fighter

Each of them have their own unique traits which separate them from their other gender counterpart, except Deb and Eric.

Deb can kind of run, Eric can't? This is a problem since Eric is a less popular choice

 

Stat balancing is important and necessary to ensure fun and fair counselors to play.

 

I think his composure is pretty good. In all respects, Eric seems to be a lot like Shelley from 3. While a bit timid and awkward, he stood up to Ali and ran over their motorcycles, proving he had the nerve to stand up for himself. I don't think lowering his composure is the best way around it, maybe make his Intelligence a 9, his stealth a 7, and bumping his luck to 6 and his strength to 4 but I think he's in a good place.

I don't think we should lower his intelligence since his trope is based around intellect.

Lowering his stealth and composure for strength and luck as I've suggested before would be a be a better fix from my pov.

 

He most certainly would beat most women at arm wrestling. It's just a weight thing after a certain point. It allows you to resist being moved and to apply more force, which is a sort of strength. Among all people who do not train, the fatter people are typically stronger than the less fat.

But when you think about what the strength statistic actually means, the force applied to the use of a weapon, then you can consider the fact that technique is the most important factor. Thus, maybe someone like Vanessa <should> be stronger than Eric, because she might be trained or just generally have better technique when swinging a baseball bat or something like that.

Vanessa is a sprinter not that much of a fighter. She doesn't spend time training in areas that would help her take down a 180-200lb man even if he is also rather weak. She can't fight him but she can sure as hell run from him.

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I thought he was the class clown. Class clowns don't have to be super duper smart right? I figured class clowns would be the type of people who can turn a negative situation into something positive, and know how to deal with traps.

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