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I've been meaning to write up this post since the day the beta ended, though due to christmas and then school i really haven't had the time. Now luckily i saved a few things here and there regarding videos so i could refresh my memory and not come across as having my head completely up my ass.

 

Anyways i had a few thoughts about the beta. Overall impressions from the get-go was from "get this on two platforms" to "i'll stick to steam kthx" and while there are bits and pieces of things that i'd like changed, most of it has been posted at some point around here, so i'l just stick to my "main" points and maybe incorporate some sub-points in there where applicable.

 

SO without further ado, here's my list of shit that i hope gets changed before release (or else)™

 

JASON

 

The basis of jason is very clear to everyone that are even halfway aware of the franchise. He's coming for you and he's going to kill you, that much is certain. If you escape it's just postponing the inevitable.

However, in a game sense, the "postponing" part should be the escape part, not necessarily the in-game part unless there are certain criteria met (out of stamina, caught in the wild unaware etc). Now, jason has several things that can aid him in the quest for dead teens, but there are still things that should be overhauled in order to provide a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

 

Sense

 

Overview

 

The idea of sense is solid,but as a game mechanic it completely breaks everything from the get-go. Not only was it on a low cooldown (i know this will be changed in the full game, but still) but it gave you the opportunity to see literally everything within a certain radius. And it was HUGE. The thrill of the hunt wasn't even present, because there was no "hunt". You just saw them. Part of the hunt in my opinion is finding your prey, not just seeing it there. Also from a gameplay perspective, there will be a huge majority that'll just stick around in an area they assume someone will be, pop sense, and if nothing move around a bit and pop sense again until prey is found, like a flight radar.

 

Also, the aspect of escaping jason is completely bumfucked thanks to sense. As soon as i pop sense, a big red light will let me know exactly which cabin they are in. now you might say that the fact that i don't know WHERE makes it balanced, but the cabins themselves aren't big by any stretch of the imagination. Take for instance the higgins haven cabin. Once you go inside from the terrace, you have immediate vision of all 3 rooms on the ground floor. You also have time to check all the rooms, and since counselors aren't the smartest of the bunch they often leave the door open,so you know if someone has been there already.

 

If the ground floor turns out to be empty, there's only one way to go. And that's 2 rooms and a closet. Does this take a bit of time? sure. But the payoff is that you immediately find someone. Even if you don't, you'll at worst have sense to see them running away and get an idea of where they're going, but more often than not, they'll jump out the window because the closet is useless (more on that later)

 

So overall, sense is just absurdly broken. I know this isn't trying to be a super competitive MLG game, but there's a balance that needs to be upheld.

 

Proposed changes

 

First off, the sense needs to be rehauled. It still needs to lead to counselors, but it should by no means pinpoint their exact location.

 

My first proposed change is this:

 

Instead of sense lighting up where the counselors are, make it highlight a tracked path.

See image for example

 

400px-Witcher3Findthehunter.jpg

 

There can either be footprints of a scent type thing going on, but either way it'll change the dynamic without messing with the trigger, namely fear.

 

A strong fear will have a long lasting scent you can follow, or deeper footprints (when stressed you put more weight into steps for example...could be science i dunno), while a stealthy char will at best leave smaller, less discernable prints. It'll force the jason player to pay attention to his surroundings more.

 

Maybe even have color coding for who you're chasing, so that eventually you'll be able to pick your target. At first the footprints will all have the same color, but as you attack and "learn" your prey, they will get a separate color so you can pick up the chase whenever you decide to do so. It has several uses if you spot a chad from a long distance with a shotgun, you can decide to not engage yet, or maybe take him out first. It makes the game more about stalking and killing, but hopefully there's some feedback on this post as well.

 

Alternate solution

 

if the above doesn't work out, how about instead of the lights and stuff, there's a ring on the map you can check? The higher the fear, the smaller the ring. You still have to FIND the counselor, but the area gets restricted. Sense will have a bigger mini map pop up so you can assure yourself you're inside that ring. It'll be a bit more intrusive HUD wise, but the payoff is a greater sense of hunting, which wins out for me personally. obviously.

 

Either way, as the way things are right now, sense will be a game ruiner. It's just not fun to play with or against.

 

Chase

 

When spotted, you start running. Or trying to hide. Either way the problems that ocurr when this chase starts are numerous. You're basically on a doom timer. This is a good thing. The more the chase lasts, the more you as a human get tired and unable to think clearly. That much is fine.

 

However, when jason can teleport right up to you, grab you and kill you in less than 3 seconds despite having ample distance, there is something wrong. Now, i never saw anything claiming that the grab/instant kill was intentional or not, but i REALLY hope it's not a thing that's going to stay there.

 

Also, the music just kills any ambush opportunity. I was hiding by the barn in higgin's and the jason creeped up on me. The music was a dead, instant giveaway. While it sucks to die, it also took away the potential to be encouraged and applaud the fact that a jason snuck up on you. It's literally impossible when you decide to roll it like metal gear solid. it NEEDS to change in order to be useful. good music or not, the fact that it shows up when jason sees you instead of when the counselor knows he's there is wrong, wrong, WRONG.

 

 

The Grab

 

So jason got his hands on you, and there are now 3 things that can happen. You stab him with a pocket knife, you wiggle out or you get rekt.

 

When jason has you, i was under the impression that you were given a brief moment to struggle and get away, but due to the previous (hopefully) bug, you just get fucked right there on the ground.

 

Now this is a two pronged problem. For one, it just destroys any fun when you know that you die immediately when jason grabs you if you don't have a pocket knife.

 

But the worst part is, jason won't get to use all the amazing enviromental kills that the devs themselves hyped up. I don't care about seeing them in an empty sandbox against an NPC counselor, the real thrill comes from pulling off that sick kill against a real, live opponent and maybe hearing the whining through the headset.

 

Also the macros will be real if the "mash to survive" is still implemented by release. There is NOTHING stopping me from having a script tied to my "n" button and just hold it in for the maximum possible presses at any given moment to escape as soon as i can. exhaustion doesn't even come into it, it's just another button. Like opening a door.

 

So what i propose instead is something like this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ-DIVYu7-0

 

(Just watch the first 30 seconds, that's plenty)

 

Now, the system in this particular game (dragon ball budokai 3) is a guess the button, but with a twist.

 

To be more accurate, it works like this:

Attacker has to win 3 rounds of this "minigame".

Defender only needs to win 1.

Attacker presses "square" to attack

Defender anticipates square as well, and gets free and even counters.

 

alternatively:

 

Attacker presses square

Defender guesses circle

Attacker wins and starts hurting defender, building up to the ultimate.

Repeats up to 2 more times.

 

Also, keep in mind that once the attacker chooses a button (square) and wins with it, he can no longer choose the square as an attack. So there's now even higher odds for the defender to get away.

 

Now, in the game, the damage the defender gets is calculated by how many times he loses this minigame.

 

If the defender guesses the right button immediately, he takes NO damage, and counters the attacker, leaving the ATTACKER with less health (and wasted his energy required to pull off the move)

 

If the defender guesses right the second time, they both reset. The defender gets away, nobody takes damage (but attacker still wasted ki)

 

If the defender guesses right the third and final time, he takes a LITTLE bit of damage, but gets away and the fighters reset to a neutral stance.

 

 

I feel like this could be modified in a few ways (make it a shorter process for one) to help friday the 13th becoming better in regards to the grab system.

 

Using the system in the video it'd work something like this:

 

Jason grabs counselor

"minigame" starts

Jason selects M1

Counselor guesses M2

repeat x2 times and jason now has "free reign" for a little bit to actually pick an execution instead of doing the same 4 ground executions over and over.

 

Now this by itself solves the macro problem, because you can't just mash rock and think it helps you more than once, AT MOST if you're lucky.

 

Now obviously this won't work if you straight out ripped the system from dragonball and implemented it in friday the 13th. You can't expect both of them to  just stand there and have a minigame going on oblivious to the rest of the game, so the counselor would need to "trigger" the start of the minigame.

 

Maybe with a smaller bar that you can fill, and then it starts off. If you win, you move on to the next "level" of it, if you lose, you have to fill it up again, with a bigger penalty the more jason wins.

 

It also let's grab be a risk instead of the sure kill it is now (barring counselor interference).

 

Converted into an example, it'd be something like this:

 

Jason grabs counselor

Counselor has to mash to fill up a small bar

Jason gets a prompt to select his "attack"

Counselor selects a counter button

If counselor doesn't select the same as jason, he gets choked a bit harder, and has a bigger bar to fill up, or a small penalty before he can start struggling properly again.

Repeats until esacpe or death.

 

As for counselor benefits to escaping (other than being alive a bit longer) the counselor should be outright rewarded for being able to escape quickly in my opinion. So again following the system in the video:

 

Defender gets it right in 1 try - Escapes and stuns jason, lowers fear momentarily and gives a boost of stamina (fills up alot, lasts longer for x amount of seconds)

 

Defender gets it right on 2 - Escapes, minor stun to jason, small recovery for fear, minor recovery for stamina (adrenaline burst)

 

Defender gets it right on 3 - Jason drops counselor, but is hurt in the process, now has 1 point of damage to him, no otherwise recovery and stamina bar takes a hit for x amount of minutes (can only fill up to say 80% maybe)

 

Jason on the other hand:

 

Attacker gets 1 - Counselor gets penalty to fill the bar in order to try again from the beginning

 

Attacker gets 2 - Counselor gets a bigger penalty, has to start from the beginning

 

Attacker gets 3 - Counselor almost passed out, requires help from others to escape

 

This system would allow counselors to get a second chance at life, but also allows a jason player to (if lucky) be able to actually treat them like animals for a bit, and would allow a person to carry some guy from outside the higgins house to inside to stuff them in the fireplace if they want to, while stll preventing him from carrying them from one end of the map to another. Now obviously what i suggested above is just that, a suggestion. The third attack for jason is a potential for griefing if pulled off against the last remaining survivor, just being carried around for eternity unable to do anything. It's just spitballing. Maybe the third attack, when left to the last survivor, just gives a very big penalty instead for example. Or it changes depending on the character grabbed.

 

Survivors

 

I have less to say about the survivors, but i'll try to keep it shorter than jason, if nothing else because i've written a wall already (thanks for reading so far!)

 

Stamina

 

The stamina usage system as it is, is...flawed.

Using stamina for running, sure. However i don't think it's fair to spend that much stamina for jogging alone. I get that it's realistic, but there comes a point where realism clashes with fun gameplay, and it's not always good. ARMA 3 is a good military sim, but even that has leeway with realism to provide fun gameplay.

 

What i propose instead is to allow survivors more options regarding how to spend their stamina, namely what they can do when chased by jason (or do otherwise if they want to for some reason)

 

Things like:

  • Running through a door and slamming it shut behind you (creates a loud sound, still have to lock and barricade it manually)
  • rummaging through desks faster (again, makes sound because you do it in a hurry)
  • make the skill ring move faster (sound...alot of it)
  • and more!

 

The point is that you spend a chunk of stamina to do things faster, and the cost is less stamina and the heightened worry that jason is on to you due to the noise you make as a result. It's a risk vs reward. Do you do it slow and steady, or do you hurry the fuck up and risk jason finding you quicker, but now with less stamina?

 

Also there should be a snack you can eat to increase stamina regeneration for a while. Just sayin'. Put some red bull in the camp i dunno.

 

 

Repairing

 

The phone needs more steps before it's fixed, or it needs decoy phones that are ruined. That's it.

Any object you need to interact with to escape should either have decoys, or have more steps than 2.

 

It just funnels the game into particular things, ignoring everything else but calling the cops, calling TommyJarvis and only caring about the car if someone else stumbled upon the pieces they need while finding the phone. It wasn't necessarily the case in the beta, but there's nothing preventing this from being the meta at release and for a long time, and by then people will get sick of it and leave. It's a multiplayer game and repetition is to be expected, but when you have all these choices to get out of there, why should there be a funnel like this?

 

Hiding

 

Hiding, just like in dead by daylight is useless. At BEST it buys you seconds. I say seconds because if you hide inside a closet, and jason shows up to rip apart every other closet and bed in the cabin, you're not further away from him. It's just, again, postponing the inevitable. I did not see a single juke created by utilizing the closets or beds while playing the beta, and sure players aren't good yet, but that's still a dynamic that worries me when hiding will actually be more prone to giving you away. I couldn't think of a single time where hiding would give me any advantage, since as soon as i left the closet, jason would at best see me popping out the window anyways, while he was busy ripping out the beds looking for me. I was tempted to try the second story closet by the window at higgins once, but because i knew it was nothing but a deathtrap, it's just wasted potential. It's the exact same issue dead by daylight has with the hiding spots.

 

Most of the issues stem from the fact that you breathe like a dragon when hiding. ANd i get that fear is supposed to make you more stressed and give off more sound, but as it is right now it's nothing but a death trap. might as well hide inside an iron maiden and wait for jason to close it on you (haunting ground anyone?) I have no proposed fixes for this as i feel completely removing sound when entering or leaving or even staying inside it will solve anything, but i hope the devs will come up with something that works better than this, 'cause right now i don't see many people using it aside from streamers because "lolimhidingXD" (because that's funny for some reason)

 

Finding survivors

 

I'll be touching more on the map in general shortly, but one thing that bothers me constantly is the fact that every survivor is always aware of every other survivor. The walkietalkie is a great item until you look at the map for 3 seconds and then it basically doesn't matter because even though you cant hear them, there's nothing stopping you from just walking up to the dot at the map.

 

The change i propose for this is simple. Make it so that every character, including jason, pop up as an icon on the map once close enough to be within hearing distance, but don't let the player know who it is. It creates tension, it creates a risk where you might want to interact with another survivor, but you don't know if you're walking straight into jason (see; map tagging)

 

Again using higgins as an example, imagine going into the first floor, seeing some doors open already, and proceeding to search a bit at the first floor since some things are unopened and then hearing the creaks of foosteps upstairs. You can call out on the mic, but the other played can be a mute (jason or another player without a mic), So you have to decide to you run away and check from a distance or do you approach and risk suddenly being ambushed by jason?

 

I'll put more into tagging underneath, but a safety measure to help not walking into jason all the time would be being able to tag who it is for x amount of time, so you'll know on the map until they either walk too far away or too much time passes without seeing them in person.

 

Also you'll have another advantage in knowing that groups of 3 are most likely counselors. Probably. Or there's two of them dying and they need help.

 

 

Common issues

 

Now, i THINK i've covered atleast a LITTLE that's not been mentioned 1000 times already (stamina i'm sure has been a big thing, and sense, but hopefully not in the exact same way) There are still some general issues that plague both sides.

 

 

The map

 

Now, the map is a thing everyone has within their mind from what i gathered, it's not a physical object the counselors or jason carry with them. That's to be expected.

 

The issue i have with it is how everyone knows where the cars are, and how jason automatically knows where everything is. Now this is mostly fine for jason, but for gameplays sake he should not be aware of where the functioning phone is. Jason is a good killer, and very creative at it, but is he really that smart to recall exactly which phone he fucked up just enough that it'd need fixing? adding the decoy phones would certainly give a seasoned killer atleast a little room for doubt?

 

The cars have a similar reason. Within the game world, all 8 counselors couldn't possibly have driven around at the same time all day. Somebody could have moved the car, they don't all line up and drive behind eachother until one car is parked, then drive back just to make certain nobody goes off in less groups?

 

Jason should be able to see a relevant object and tag it, or burn it into his memory if you will, on the map. So he still has to find the car and boat like everyone else. Static objects like power boxes and phones are on the map from the get-go, but he still won't know which phone works, so he has to go between them to find the right phone, then tag it with vision and from there it'll have a different color than the rest so you'll know it's the phone to look out for.

 

The counselors however have their own separate maps, but can still tag them, either permamently or for a while based on a stat. This provides more options when cooperating. Maybe map remembering is basedon intelligence. A high intelligence character that has a car tagged will remember it for 10 minutes (admit it, you went into the kitchen and forgot why you were there atleast once, short term memory DOES happen) while chad is more busy worrying where the girls are at than where the car is parked, so he only remembers it for a minute at a time. Now they can refresh this for eachother constantly, so a chad can come up to an a.j, refresh his memory by interacting for a moment, and if a.j is running low on "time" for the tag, she can ask chad about it and then have a sort of symbiosis like that. If time runs out for both, best find someone that knows or recall where the car is yourself. unless it moved.

 

Jason still has the advantage in these scenarios, after all he will remember it for the rest of the match, while the cooperation aspect between counselors are strenghtened. If they stick together because of memory, that's a win, since it naturally discourages running off on your own and dying in a random campsite.

 

Music

 

Touched briefly on earlier. The timing for when what music hits needs to be changed. Jason spotting someone should not be the prompt for starting chase music, it should be with the counselors locking on to him visually. The stealth aspect is completely lost as it is, but when the fucking violins pop off like an m16 everytime jason looks in the general direction of a fart, it just mocks it. The stalking nature of what jason is dissappears and is permamently ruined. Once the realization sets in that you CANNOT ambush someone properly because of music, then everything else falters. Hearing the crackling from the fireplace, the slow paced steps as you search a cabin, the soft creaks as you check for supplies just ruined because Niccolo Paganini rose from the grave, took 8 hits of speed and played until his fingers caught fire. All because jason was on the same continent.

 

 

 

Phew, that was a handful to write. If you read it to the end, well done! thanks!

I might update this later as i come up with something else but for right now i think i'll be heading off. Again, thanks for reading and i hope to recieve some constructive feedback on my..feedback.

 

Also i posted it here under general feedback since the beta players were not under NDA, and i'd like to reach as big a crowd i can in the forum, but if it's wrong, give me a heads up.

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Ok I'll be honest long but well done man! Don't get ^ him wrong he's not picking on the game just trying to make mechanics better! I like the ideas for fixes and I hope GUN at least reads this!?

 

I like the footprints idea and a more intelligent councelor sees a more memorized map and only a councelors point of view of Jason triggers the chase music! And phone decoys!

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I literally in love with the idea of the map, more intelligent counselors will remember the map very well, while Chad and Tiffany are lost (JAJAJA!). I hope that someone of the developers read this.

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Excellent post. I hope the devs read it.

 

Instead of just rambling about things you don't like, you offered deep insight and even better - solutions to the problems at hand! I guess this is the kind of feedback the devs are looking for when making a a game as it is constructive and informative.

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thanks for your compliments fellas, i do hope the devs see this. I know my topic is very general and vague in the title, but hoping it'll get SOME atttention, atleast an answer from any higher ups, 'cause i really believe it'll help the game to change some of it.

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Very nice suggestions here. I agree with most of your points, but I think the grab minigame could use some work. With the system you proposed, the escape would be dependent on guessing rather than skill. I understand that it's a difficult problem to fix, but otherwise it's an interesting idea.

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Very nice suggestions here. I agree with most of your points, but I think the grab minigame could use some work. With the system you proposed, the escape would be dependent on guessing rather than skill. I understand that it's a difficult problem to fix, but otherwise it's an interesting idea.

 

I agree with that, but i also think that since the counselors in question aren't educated navy seals or the like, the premise of escaping a strong killer IS a bit up to chance. That being said, i do believe that it's a very rough sketch of a potensial fix, so i wouldn't completely count out some degree of randomness to it.

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