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17 hours ago, TimDuke 01 said:

Well not to sound out of line  BUT 666 kind of has a point even if all of what he said is a bit over the top. This is the first time I've seen you respond to this issue on this forum and it has been a issue for quite sometime.Sorry I don't use Reddit or Twitter. It is a MAJOR problem on PC and what you suggest is good in theory but if you leave these "hacked" lobbies to try and find another normal lobby you more often than not get sucked right back in that same lobby, it's a vicious circle.The hackers have taken over the PC version they are  nearly impossible to avoid now. According to you basically nothing can be or will be done about it.I've given up reporting hacker with evidence because they use "FAKE" Steam accounts so they aren't really getting banned it's just some random account that gets banned.They are using a Steam account generator to get around the bans.

I've responded to folks on ANY channel with questions about the patch or PC build. As long as I'm tagged I NEVER ignore a tag, question, topic, or discussion, no matter the context or situation. Implying I've ignored you is wholly incorrect.

As for the issue on PC, I understand it can seem like every lobby is one of these lobbies, but it simply isn't the case. I know that's not a great answer to the issue, but as said prior, we are well outside of the end of service to the title. The team has held on to get the final patch fixed up, but the truth is the game is heading into a different stage of it's life. Major overhauls like what would be required here are simply no longer an option. Hell, even these forums were supposed to have been archived by now.

7 hours ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

@mattshotcha I'm sorry, but the subject of "tagging you" is definitely six of one, half a dozen of the other. Firstly, do you honestly believe that tagging YOU so that WE can get an update as to what is happening with YOUR (Gun Media's) game is what it should take for a Lead Community Dev to update the community on THEIR official forum? If that Reddit user didn't make that post about your account, you wouldn't have responded leading to info about the supposed hotfix being escalated into a full patch. What about the common decency of showing some initiative and providing the player base with that information of your own accord in an official capacity? I saw your Reddit comment before it was posted here by chance (i'm not a frequent Reddit user) and the first thing I thought was, "shouldn't that info be posted on the official forum?" Instead your last comment relating to the follow up patch was 30th November (from my observation) and without that Reddit post we were still very much in the dark, so to speak. I'm sure you are fully aware how much the guys on here adore the game and have been waiting with bated breath to hear something about the proposed fix to the last pitiful patch attempt (lets call a spade a spade), and not only did it fail as far as exploits go but also added new glitches. In a nutshell, the last patch dropped damn near FOUR months ago and we were last told about a hotfix around that time and nothing more. Do you see where I'm coming from? Do you see where tyrant666 is coming from if you look past the preceived "misrepresentation"? Secondly, irrespective of being tagged, I've seen that you still navigate these neck of the woods because you locked a topic just the other day for regurgitating old conspiracies, and you weren't even tagged in the latest conversation that caused you to do so. On the 26th January TimDuke 01 created a topic solely to ask if there is anything being done about the hacking on PC. He named you but didn't tag you so got no response from you. So which is it - tag you or take shots at you/GM to get a response (rhetorical sarcasm for the purpose of emphasis btw). Why is it that you couldn't take that same energy when locking the topic mentioned above to address the community's concerns about the indefinitely pending patch and the hackfest posts that were made as far back as December (within the last patch notes)? If it was because Black Tower were fighting a losing battle, then just say. We'd always appreciate the upfront honesty. You say that you've responded to tags, but does quoting you not work just as well? Personally I get notifications from posts I'm quoted in, and I ask this because on the 12th January in 'Patch Notes - 11.10.2020' your 30th November statement about the team working on an update patch was quoted with a question asking if there is "any news on this patch?" To which there was no response from you, Matt. So what are we supposed to think when there is no voluntary update, intervening updates or a response to direct quotes from you pertaining to the massive elephant in the room? It really shouldn't take negative comments, whether they be on here, Reddit or any other forms of social media, to get information on F13 that you know we desire. And I am fully aware that it doesn't always take negative jabs to get a response from you. But you have to acknowledge that your silence on the status of the game since just after the last patch dropped has spoken volumes. Please direct me to any topics/posts where you have fully addressed these matters, in case I may have missed it, and I will concede accordingly. So with all that being said, are you able to expand on your Reddit post/response to Redcat345 in regards to details of what the next patch release will entail, including projected release date? Surely there must be a lot more going on under the bonnet for it to become a full patch, even if it's not to fix the shitshow (because that's what it is) on PC, right?

And please don't read this as me being heated or full of hate towards you personally or Gun. I'm just being real and direct, because that is how I like people to deal with me.

P.S. I really hope you guys remove/fix Jason's combat stance delay that was introduced last patch. I see what the team tried to do, but it was not the answer. Trying to initiate a quick block, block>grab, and especially a block>slash is next to impossible, especially with the more common 200+ ping players like myself experience now.

No, I think the patch will be communicated the same way every other patch I've worked has been communicated to you. When the patch is finalized, and I can compile patch notes, the community will see those patch notes. When we have a date for the patch to go live, I'll inform the community. But no, I do not intend to pop into the forum and simply say "still working guys" once a week for the sake of it. If there is a question about the patch, simply tag me and I'll do my best to answer.

As said prior, No I cannot expand at this time on the date or contents of the patch. When that info is finalized, I'll be sharing it with the community here. Just as I have with every other patch. If I missed a quoted response, I apologize, genuinely, for that.

That said, misrepresenting the situation as the community having to attack the ComDev to get an answer is not only incorrect, it's designed specifically to stir up trouble. The information at this time is simply as said prior, the next update is the final update. It turned out to be more work than a quick hotfix and will be communicated on as soon as we have it finalized. The game is outside of it's planned cycle, and the forums are set to be archived with the launch of the last patch, as Gun has to shift focus to upcoming projects. 

5 hours ago, tyrant666 said:

 

Pretty much these.

I don't have a personal vendetta against Matt or Shifty or Ben. All the people that have been here over the years that have been punching bags for the community. Negative yes, personal no.

That said, we all expect answers and the fact that it seems like the only answer that can be given is a random post on a super, wild west forum like reddit about how the patch has turned into a bigger patch as the only info to be given is disappointing. The only info Black Tower Studios can relay back to the community lead is that the patch is going to be bigger?

Not enough.

I notice you still, after two full years of me working on this game, refuse to address me in a reply and only talk about me. I'm not sure why you do this, or why you refuse to acknowledge any of my replies to you, But here goes.

"Personal vendetta" is an odd choice of words. Your comments are always more of the starting trouble for the sake of it variety than any personal vendetta. 

If you expect answers, ask questions. Because as said before, I'm not going to pop into a forum and say "Working on it" 1000 times in the interim between when we confirm we're going to take another stab at the last patch and when we have confirmed patch notes. That's simply pacifying and not providing any new info to the topic, and is not something I'm going to do. If asked, I'll give any info I can, and HAVE. But a non-update just so I can say I sent an update is a waste of everyone's time and only leads to frustration for the community. I'm not a non-answer answer type of person.

And no, that isn't "the only info relayed to the community lead". It's the only info the ComDev can share with you at this time. Just as has been the case with every prior patch, when we have confirmed patch notes, you'll see them. When we have confirmed a date, you'll see it.

Substituting your own theories in places where you feel like they fit is not facts.

4 hours ago, TimDuke 01 said:

Crickets.

You posted your comment after hours in my local time.

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4 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

 

I notice you still, after two full years of me working on this game, refuse to address me in a reply and only talk about me. I'm not sure why you do this, or why you refuse to acknowledge any of my replies to you, But here goes.

"Personal vendetta" is an odd choice of words. Your comments are always more of the starting trouble for the sake of it variety than any personal vendetta. 

If you expect answers, ask questions. Because as said before, I'm not going to pop into a forum and say "Working on it" 1000 times in the interim between when we confirm we're going to take another stab at the last patch and when we have confirmed patch notes. That's simply pacifying and not providing any new info to the topic, and is not something I'm going to do. If asked, I'll give any info I can, and HAVE. But a non-update just so I can say I sent an update is a waste of everyone's time and only leads to frustration for the community. I'm not a non-answer answer type of person.

And no, that isn't "the only info relayed to the community lead". It's the only info the ComDev can share with you at this time. Just as has been the case with every prior patch, when we have confirmed patch notes, you'll see them. When we have confirmed a date, you'll see it.

Substituting your own theories in places where you feel like they fit is not facts.

Fair enough.

@mattshotcha

I really only have two questions then.

1. What becomes of JasonKillsBugs after this forum becomes archived and the final patch pushes out? Does it still function or does the playerbase just have to police itself?

2. Any consideration with this final patch of adding the private custom match options for the lobby host in public matches? Afterall, this is basically part of what these hackers are doing to public games anyway and with private matches being very hard to setup due to any number of reasons. I would say on some level, it makes sense to add these custom match options for the host of non modded lobbies and the other players can see what options are changed by simply clicking the settings wheel. It might even be a decent foil for the modded lobbies in the long run and will finally provide new makeshift game options to the public games.

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@mattshotcha       I apologize for sounding angry but it's due to frustration on PC platform. I don't think you realize the severity of the hacker problem. If they can create these servers and it does say official servers when you enter one of these lobbies how are they accomplishing that? Are they actually paying for a server? I'm no coder or hacker so above my knowledge. I can tell you this that if you threaten to report hackers in lobby chat they just simply laugh at you. They say go ahead My profile is hidden the one you see is just some random Steam person who may not even own the game. I'm using a VPN I'm invincible. It is harming Guns already bad reputation by not supporting their own game even just a little bit.  I understand the way it works .I myself will never buy another game produced by this company because there is no guarantee the next game might suffer the same fate. I'm  not the only one who feels this way.IMO it's not good business practice just to simply throw in the towel.

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2 hours ago, TimDuke 01 said:

IMO it's not good business practice just to simply throw in the towel.

I get the frustration but how much money do you think they're going to throw away on a game that's been dead for years? Sounds to me like their budget was just about used up at the last patch. And still, they're releasing one more patch in a final attempt to take care of some bugs and increase playability. They could have pulled the plug any time after the lawsuit and just walked away. 

Even if they did take care of the hacked lobbies, there's no guarantee that the hackers wouldn't find a workaround as soon as the patch dropped. And how many other bugs would potentially turn up? They could spend an eternity trying to fix every problem this game has and still there would be someone complaining about something. 

They're not going to get new players. Nobody in their right mind would buy a game that has been dead for years. If you were running a business, when would you cut your losses?

Would you risk going bankrupt trying to patch every glitch, bug, and prevent every single hack on one single game that's been content locked for years with no end in sight to the lawsuit? Or would you fix what you can, move on, and try to learn something from your mistakes for next time?

 

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Look I see your point but this is the game that put you on the map so to speak and it wouldn't be so dead IF they could control the hacking situation because that is just driving players away from the PC version of the game and gaining any potential new players because everyone is well aware it's a hackers paradise on PC. There won't be no next time for me. I'm DONE even with no rights dispute they couldn't fix major bugs and it took months between fixes or attempted fixes which usually caused more bugs. I will not buy another Gun Media game,they have lost any credibility they had with me. It's a shame because really without hackers the game is really not that glitchy or buggy anymore relatively speaking. Most of the map exploit places are limited to 3 maps now where as there were at least 1 on every map a few patches ago.

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32 minutes ago, TimDuke 01 said:

Look I see your point but this is the game that put you on the map so to speak and it wouldn't be so dead IF they could control the hacking situation because that is just driving players away from the PC version of the game and gaining any potential new players because everyone is well aware it's a hackers paradise on PC. There won't be no next time for me. I'm DONE even with no rights dispute they couldn't fix major bugs and it took months between fixes or attempted fixes which usually caused more bugs. I will not buy another Gun Media game,they have lost any credibility they had with me. It's a shame because really without hackers the game is really not that glitchy or buggy anymore relatively speaking. Most of the map exploit places are limited to 3 maps now where as there were at least 1 on every map a few patches ago.

In their defense, the hacked lobbies didn't start until around last patch. They probably didn't even know it was possible. I'm sure they've looked into it and came to the conclusion that it's not a cost effective fix at this point. If you read between the lines you'll see that they're not investing anymore time and money into it after the patch. I mean, sounds like they're shutting down the forums AT next patch. That leaves no room for future complaints even about the upcoming patch. We get what we get with the next one.

Honestly though, you kind of knew the higher risk of hacking being a PC gamer. It's certainly not unheard of on that particular platform. That's why I do all my gaming on console. And it's not like the hackers have always gone unpunished. You've had 3 years of relatively unhacked play on a game that's been dead since they announced no new content.

It sucks that they can't fix everything. But overall, if it wasn't worth your investment, you probably wouldn't still be here. It's definitely a shame that hackers are going to end up killing it for PC though. I'm honestly ok with any way it ends now. I can safely say that I've had a blast with it while it lasted. More so than most big budget games I've ever played. I personally wouldn't rule out at least checking out their next project. Hopefully they'll take what they've learned from this one and make improvements.

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5 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

In their defense, the hacked lobbies didn't start until around last patch. ....

This is the most objective perspective we can have at this point.  The game is done, we are lucky that we are getting one more update that's fixes (hopefully) what broke last patch (CS LOL).  As a PC player, it's disheartening to see it over ran by hackers, I'm glad I got out before dealing with that frustration.  At this point, organize with friends to play together to have a smooth experience.  I'm sure not many will like what I'm about to say, nor will the Devs, but the fact that is been proven that hackers can customize game gives it some hope.  Perhaps in the future, this develops into a grassroot effort to unofficially support the game, balance, and content on this forgotten gem.

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19 hours ago, tyrant666 said:

Fair enough.

@mattshotcha

I really only have two questions then.

1. What becomes of JasonKillsBugs after this forum becomes archived and the final patch pushes out? Does it still function or does the playerbase just have to police itself?

2. Any consideration with this final patch of adding the private custom match options for the lobby host in public matches? Afterall, this is basically part of what these hackers are doing to public games anyway and with private matches being very hard to setup due to any number of reasons. I would say on some level, it makes sense to add these custom match options for the host of non modded lobbies and the other players can see what options are changed by simply clicking the settings wheel. It might even be a decent foil for the modded lobbies in the long run and will finally provide new makeshift game options to the public games.

As stated in the "Future of Friday the 13th: The Game" thread, JasonKillsBugs.com will remain active and support can be reached there.

Public matches will not receive the same custom options as private matches, so that players can still search for a traditional lobby. If those toggles were in public matches, then every lobby would be at the mercy of whatever the host felt like toggling on and that leads to a terrible user experience for anyone not on host. You'd also see even more people leaving the matches and trouble filling lobbies because toggles they don't prefer are turned on or turned off, etc. It's not a viable solution to the issue with PC lobbies, and it's a net negative for the majority of the community in general, especially when those options exist in private matches.

Fan organized "Looking for Group" messages to fill private matches are the best way to orchestrate a match with toggle options.

18 hours ago, YouAndYourFriendsAreDead said:

Is the obnoxious big weapon glitch getting patched? Thanks. 

Yes. 

17 hours ago, TimDuke 01 said:

@mattshotcha       I apologize for sounding angry but it's due to frustration on PC platform. I don't think you realize the severity of the hacker problem. If they can create these servers and it does say official servers when you enter one of these lobbies how are they accomplishing that? Are they actually paying for a server? I'm no coder or hacker so above my knowledge. I can tell you this that if you threaten to report hackers in lobby chat they just simply laugh at you. They say go ahead My profile is hidden the one you see is just some random Steam person who may not even own the game. I'm using a VPN I'm invincible. It is harming Guns already bad reputation by not supporting their own game even just a little bit.  I understand the way it works .I myself will never buy another game produced by this company because there is no guarantee the next game might suffer the same fate. I'm  not the only one who feels this way.IMO it's not good business practice just to simply throw in the towel.

"Not supporting their own game even just a little bit" seriously?

You're right, there is no guarantee that after 4 years the next game will still be receiving new content and stay out of sunset. But think about that for a second. Lawsuit aside, literally NO game has a promise of content 4 years out. So I guess by that logic, no game is safe? Is that what you're saying? How many years will make you more comfortable with your $40 investment? 

Hell, Anthem is seeing sunset now. I don't mean to sound like I'm kicking them while they're down, because I genuinely feel for them and their community, but look at that as a point of reference. And I'm not saying compare the two games or anything like that based on their game play, or any criteria other than timing alone. So are you saying you aren't going to buy games anymore then?

If you feel that the last 4 years of F13 was not worth the $40 price tag, by all means, speak with your wallet when we launch our next game. I'm not a salesman. That's not my goal here. But your comment lacks perspective, self awareness, and vision. 

 

13 hours ago, TimDuke 01 said:

I'm DONE even with no rights dispute they couldn't fix major bugs... 

It's a shame because really without hackers the game is really not that glitchy or buggy anymore relatively speaking...

Most of the map exploit places are limited to 3 maps now where as there were at least 1 on every map a few patches ago.

I trimmed the middle out of your comment here to highlight a few key sentences, all typed by you in the same post.

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On 3/3/2021 at 9:52 PM, Somethin Cool said:

Even if they did take care of the hacked lobbies, there's no guarantee that the hackers wouldn't find a workaround as soon as the patch dropped. And how many other bugs would potentially turn up? They could spend an eternity trying to fix every problem this game has and still there would be someone complaining about something.

I suspect the hackers will find a workaround. I hope not.

@mattshotcha, I know this is not a concern right now, but will the team eventually develop an offline profile contingency down the road, when it becomes necessary?

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5 hours ago, Fair Play said:

I suspect the hackers will find a workaround. I hope not.

@mattshotcha, I know this is not a concern right now, but will the team eventually develop an offline profile contingency down the road, when it becomes necessary?

That is the plan, though the database servers are not going to go anywhere any time soon.

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At some point in the day when we leave a hacked match we go back to a new one. I noticed 3 lobbies hacked simultaneously on a single download region. There should be an option that allows you to choose to be the public host. Those who indulge in these lobbies will stay there, those who want to play the game the way it's designed will avoid them. We would have a better chance of getting a normal lobbies if several normal lobbies are created.

Everyone would be happy.  😁

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On 3/2/2021 at 4:41 PM, mattshotcha said:

I'm not sure where the end of this comment is coming from. I've responded to any tags on any of our official channels with updates to the status of the incoming patch. The situation with that sub is not a matter of neglect by me, so much as a matter of neglect by the sub team to run their Reddit. And no it didn't take "constant shots" for me to acknowledge anything, just tag me and ask. You're intentionally misrepresenting something to make me look like I've somehow slacked in my responsibility. "It shouldn't have to come to that to get an answer" is correct, and it doesn't have to. Just tag me and ask and I answer. Reddit "came to that" well before this patch. The "constant shots" have been the case there, with little to no moderation, for two years now and have nothing to do with the situation now.

Anyone who has tagged me on one of our supported channels has gotten a response. This type of comment is solely posted to stir the pot.

By the way @tyrant666 <---- That's how you tag. Type @ and start typing out mattshotcha. The forums will do the rest for you.

The method has been adapted a bit and as time goes on, more widespread. But the team has put more work in on this issue with the upcoming patch.

Thanks for the tag. 

The situation with the modded lobbies has been investigated and will not be fixed in the upcoming patch as it would require significant changes to some key areas of the game. Core structural changes like that are a bit of a Pandora's Box. Unfortunately, that is outside of the scope at this point. 

The current workaround is to exit those matches and search quick play again, as not every lobby is a modded lobby, or leverage the Private Match feature.

Wait, upcoming patch? Wait, are you telling us that you guys will be working on the game again?

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1 hour ago, gettodachappa said:

Wait, upcoming patch? Wait, are you telling us that you guys will be working on the game again?

No not in a continual capacity. This is a patch that started life as a hotfix for the last patch. But as we got into the work of the hotfix, it quickly grew to be more than a quick turnaround hotfix. So we have one final patch coming soon that will have the elements of the hotfix, plus a few other key issues resolved, like giant weapons.

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6 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

No not in a continual capacity. This is a patch that started life as a hotfix for the last patch. But as we got into the work of the hotfix, it quickly grew to be more than a quick turnaround hotfix. So we have one final patch coming soon that will have the elements of the hotfix, plus a few other key issues resolved, like giant weapons.

So this final patch will fix everything?

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3 minutes ago, gettodachappa said:

So this final patch will fix everything?

No, not "everything" as that's pretty subjective and, if I'm being honest, simply not possible at this point in the game's life.

For example, the perk system could not be touched. Or, for a second, different example, there can be "safe spots" or other areas not yet discovered in testing or by the community. The end of the game's active development cycle is already, technically, past us. And so it would be dishonest of me to try and say that everything is fixed. I cannot in good conscience ever really make that claim though. There is no moment in game dev where you can guarantee the game is entirely bug free.

All that being said, we have patch notes coming that will have the full list of what has been worked on this patch. Expect those as soon as we have a final build certified and a date for it to deploy on all platforms.

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Is it finally fixing "sliding" aka swing teleport? That was one of the main  things the final patch was suppose to fix. Not that it really matters on PC anymore.Hackers and modded/hacked servers are far bigger pain than sliding but something is better than nothing. PC it is nearly impossible to find a "normal" lobby now.

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Well the hacked lobby situation wouldn't be so bad if the playerbase didn't constantly continue its tried and true tradition of being toxic little bitches.

You would think with the modded lobby situation, people would try to behave in normal lobbies, but nope. People still rage quit/alt f4 the minute things don't go their way.

- Can't troll Jason? They leave

- Jason doesn't have an easy wipe? He leaves

- Can't kill Jason? See above

- Toxic Nessa that alt F4s the minute they get grabbed without 2 or 3 knives? They leave

- Teamers don't get their way? They leave

- Teamers get their way? Others leave, though this one is legit

So this stuff that has been there since launch day still hasn't improved and so when you add in these modded lobbies. Its completely puzzling why these types above continue the lobby circle jerk, knowing they'll end up in modded lobbies with this type of nonsense, meanwhile starving people who just want to play a normal game. I suppose its unfortunately just another form of trolling. These toxic trolls don't care about leaving. To them, its a new form of depriving people from playing the game. So in the end, they get what they want.

It is what it is though. Console players still have to deal with these types, but at least the modded lobbies aren't there to add to the nonsense.

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On 3/24/2021 at 4:38 AM, TimDuke 01 said:

Is it finally fixing "sliding" aka swing teleport? That was one of the main  things the final patch was suppose to fix. Not that it really matters on PC anymore.Hackers and modded/hacked servers are far bigger pain than sliding but something is better than nothing. PC it is nearly impossible to find a "normal" lobby now.

Sliding was again investigated heavily as well as other combat stance issues introduced like Jason moving at run speed in CS. As is the case with a lot of visual discrepancy types of bugs, like sliding, ping plays a role in it and may still be possible at exceptionally high levels of ping. But the team has spent extensive time testing at varied ping levels and have not been able to further reproduce sliding, not by any of the various methods submitted to JasonKillsBugs.com

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12 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

Sliding was again investigated heavily as well as other combat stance issues introduced like Jason moving at run speed in CS. As is the case with a lot of visual discrepancy types of bugs, like sliding, ping plays a role in it and may still be possible at exceptionally high levels of ping. But the team has spent extensive time testing at varied ping levels and have not been able to further reproduce sliding, not by any of the various methods submitted to JasonKillsBugs.com

Combat stance delay going away then, I hope?

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8 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

Combat stance delay going away then, I hope?

This is a tricky topic to put into short replies. I'll explain as in depth as possible and if you have any follow up questions, we can keep on this topic. But I think getting the build on your console or PC and seeing it for yourself will be the best way for the community to feel the changes.

Things like sliding, as well as a multiple other unintended in game behaviors, are possible by manipulating multiple inputs and essentially "confusing" the game and the animations. Mix in varying ping and how that can affect what you're seeing vs what others in the match are seeing, and you have these unintended mechanics. 

So button spam, for lack of a better quick term, has to be resolved. There's a couple ways this is achieved. We can set cancels and things that will make one animation override another, etc. We can also limit how rapidly inputs can be made. 

So, yes, there is still, for lack of a better term, a delay on how rapidly you can enter and exit combat stance. But that "delay" is minimal. Exiting combat stance and slashing or grabbing is still entirely possible, and we've cut the feeling of a delay as much as we can. 

So that sounds like a long way of saying it, but it is important to note why this change has to happen, as well as how we can look at the change and its impact on game play. It is not just about sliding, as those rapid inputs and animations can break more than just a movement animation. As for impact on game play, it is minimal enough in this current build where timing will have to adapt, but the end result is not impossible. So players can still achieve the same, intended game play behaviors, without the unintended ones. Does this mean players will have to adjust to the new timing? Yes. Definitely. But we are confident that that adjustment can be made. Changed does not always mean broken. 

EDIT: It is worth mentioning that I am in no way a top (or even mid, lol) tier player. Not even close. I felt confident in my ability in play testing to grab out of CS and slash out of CS. Partially due to the fact that I never had a pinpoint, split second timing and muscle memory. So I think the biggest hurdle will be adjusting the timing and getting those new beats down. Then players will be doing all the things they always did, without the crazy animation/interaction breaks like sliding.

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On 3/24/2021 at 6:31 AM, tyrant666 said:

It is what it is though. Console players still have to deal with these types, but at least the modded lobbies aren't there to add to the nonsense.

Maybe it's just me, but it's actually been quite a while since I've seen (on PS4) any actual glitches/exploits being used aside from sliding (which isn't really that big a problem), med-spray animation cancelling, and the occasional trap bypass. Still you guys on PC are totally fucked, and you have my sympathy.

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11 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

So, yes, there is still, for lack of a better term, a delay on how rapidly you can enter and exit combat stance. But that "delay" is minimal. Exiting combat stance and slashing or grabbing is still entirely possible, and we've cut the feeling of a delay as much as we can.

If the upcoming, final patch still has any noticeable CS delay then that will be really unfortunate. I’m not sure it’s even worth explaining why at this stage, but I might as well if there’s any chance it has some bearing. I post here once in a blue moon so I’ll just lay it all out on this topic.

Let’s acknowledge the fact that the CS change was an attempt to remove sliding, based on a lack of info on how it actually works. A few of us all shed light on it in a thread post-patch so you could forward it to the devs, and the main point was to show how a delay on CS exit has zero relation to sliding at all. Some possible solutions to patching it out were explored too. 

But that aside, I’ll assume for a moment there’s a bunch of other exploits the delay was also meant to patch. In case it isn’t known, Illfonic already implemented a minor delay for CS years ago, to remove certain things that specifically relied on simultaneous entry/exit of CS. While their methods were imperfect, the result was far less intrusive and to date, those exploits have not returned. In other words, they nullified the CS + Sprint inputs which is exactly what the new delay also targets - trying to fix a problem that was already solved. Years ago.

In regards to existing exploits, I can say with certainty that the new delay fixes nothing / has no relation to anything I am aware of (and I’m aware of the majority). It is however directly responsible for creating new ones such as (yet another) infinite stamina method that is so easily performed it puts sliding to shame. The irony is just incredible.

But the biggest problem is the degradation of basic input functionality, and it can very much be felt by any player but especially competitive. While certain tactics preceded by block are still possible, it entirely depends on whether you accounted for the delay prior to an action out of CS or not. If not, then no instant punish allowed. At the end of the day, no amount of adapting is going to change the fact that an input working flawlessly for almost 4 years is now simply not responding for half a second. Many including myself would say that is entirely unacceptable. And the worst part is that it‘s for absolutely nothing.

Given that dev support is coming to an end, I still don’t understand why this would seem like a good time to gamble on patching out some tired old exploit and hoping there’s no consequences. My opinion is the mechanics should’ve been left well enough alone instead of introducing new problems that will never be fixed. Many would say just revert to last patch, but I know that’s not the way it works. I don’t expect this post to make any difference, but I can say I made an effort at least.

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@Tommy86 Thank you for the detailed information regarding CS as a mechanic.   Its still upsetting for me, since the "depth" of the combat of this game relies on it.  It's was the motivating drive for me to keep playing at mastering it for all situations (not counting the really broken stuff).  Both sides using it bring more complexity that would be otherwise just "slings" at each other.

They should have never touched Combat Stance :sadchappa:

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