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Tech or Cheat?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think things like the Speed Shift or Ghosting are?

    • Techs
      8
    • Cheats
      26


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25 minutes ago, hab007GE said:

IDK how to quote from another thread, but the person was complaining about double tap (Jason AND counselor can do, and been around since the BETA)

"I'm not going to lie though. When I do play as Jason against friends, which is rare since I prefer to run counselors with my buddies,  odds are I'm not going to kill them unless they give me a reason to have too or when it's funny. That mentality does screw me over at times since they will get the cops called on occasion or escape in the 4-seater with a couple of rando's by that's on me for deciding to take it easy on them. I've always advocated that it's Jason's prerogative to kill or not kill whomever he pleases." 

"Sometimes it's walking side-by-side with a limping Lachappa desperately trying to make it to the police exit who is probably convinced I'm going to slash him to death at any second. Sometimes not killing people can be just as fun as murdering everyone."

This to me is more of a problem.... treating the game like it's minecraft and not a slasher.  Maybe it's fun for you running along side counselors, wasting everyone's time and teaming with friends.  Some people actually want to play the game properly and yes there are REALLY SHITTY EXPLOITS  like when knifing the car was a thing, rooftop glitching , sliding...... but for people to complain about breaking a door slightly faster in CS or placing a counselor trap to block Jason from doing so is just laughable to me.  It is not an intended mechanic of the game? well neither is running along side counselors and not killing them, many consider that teaming.

I wasn't complaining, I was simply pointing out the falsehood in your statement. You claimed neither Jason nor Counselors  get an advantage from double-tap. Counselors can *not* break down doors, that is a fact, and that is a clear or advantage for Jason. Whether or not it's a significant advantage is irrelevant. Honestly, I don't care all that much about it. Seriously though, all the lame excuses being thrown around to justify cheating and *this* is what you focus on? You don't think of Double-Tap as a cheat is a big deal? Fine, that's your opinion, no need to get worked up because someone disagrees with you. I'm not even going to comment on what you quoted here since it has nothing to do with this thread and is completely irrelevant to this argument. When you have to go looking into other threads to make your point, you're reaching. 

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34 minutes ago, I'm Not a Goalie said:

I wasn't complaining, I was simply pointing out the falsehood in your statement. You claimed neither Jason nor Counselors  get an advantage from double-tap. Counselors can *not* break down doors, that is a fact, and that is a clear or advantage for Jason. Whether or not it's a significant advantage is irrelevant. Honestly, I don't care all that much about it. Seriously though, all the lame excuses being thrown around to justify cheating and *this* is what you focus on? You don't think of Double-Tap as a cheat is a big deal? Fine, that's your opinion, no need to get worked up because someone disagrees with you. I'm not even going to comment on what you quoted here since it has nothing to do with this thread and is completely irrelevant to this argument. When you have to go looking into other threads to make your point, you're reaching. 

Counselors can use it to combat Jason obviously, not break down doors.  There is another variation where counselors can hit and follow it with a dodge, so either side has a different benefit from it.

You don't have to respond at all... if you want to hold hands with counselors as Jason and sing kumbaya, then you do you.

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4 minutes ago, hab007GE said:

Counselors can use it to combat Jason obviously, not break down doors.  There is another variation where counselors can hit and follow it with a dodge, so either side has a different benefit from it.

You don't have to respond at all... if you want to hold hands with counselors as Jason and sing kumbaya, then you do you.

If counselor's are obviously doing it, I have no problem with Jason doing it back in retaliation. I've never been shy over saying I throw the rule book out when someone else is obviously cheating.

Now if you really want to debate me on my style of playing Jason, feel free to do it in the proper thread and I'll debate you there. Hell, half the reason I'm on this forum is because I enjoying debating people with differing opinions. Keep it respectful, and I won't have any reason to be nasty either.

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On 8/25/2020 at 8:24 PM, MrSketchyFungus said:

Eh, sounds like an excuse to not try to be good at the game to me. Every multiplayer game has shit like this. The vocal crowd is very often the people who just don't want to keep up. It's one thing to sit on a rock that Jason can't reach for 20 minutes, it's another to heal yourself half a second quicker. Tons of games rely on little tips and tricks to succeed, and it's already been exacerbated, the argument between "tech" and "cheating". But it's a 20 minute match tops, and most of the exploits are easy to counter if  you know what you're doing. there's really no reason right now to complain about the state of public lobbies. Roof and Rock glitches were/are a far more egregious problem than J's breaking doors down too fast or counselors quick healing. Those are easy to counter if you play for a while.

I'm glad you agree. I'd rather have an entire lobby of sliders than a bunch of fuckbois who sit on a rock out of reach. 

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20 minutes ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

I'm glad you agree. I'd rather have an entire lobby of sliders than a bunch of fuckbois who sit on a rock out of reach. 

When I see someone hiding up on a rock, I just laugh at them. If their the last person left, I'll morph away to another part of the map and go make myself a sandwich or something while they stand their like idiots pissin' everybody else off. I'm not going to stand there and watch them dance or beat-off or whatever like they think they're getting one over on me, and I'm sure as hell not going to leave and let the idiot claim he made me rage quit. It takes a special kind of retarded to waste twenty minutes of your life dancing on a rock. 

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Well since the PK exploit has become more prevalent, if just 1 person uses it on me I will proceed to slash  them and the rest of the lobby to death and I don't care how much flack I get from for slashing.

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@Somethin Cool , nice break down of the common Jason "tech".  Everything Jason exploit is 100% counterable/avoidable with good knowledge and smart plays.  I'm not going to pretend anything I say is going to convince anyone, frankly people are stuck in their own opinions and unwilling to really ever alter their stance unless they find themselves surrounded by others suddenly that accepts it.  Despite that, lets not fool ourselves that exploits never contributed to how a game is played as it evolves and exploit are never accepted by any community.

Lets break down some examples.

Street Fighter II - Early on it was discovered you can go directly from impact on some normal attacks into a special move.  This was due to the buffer leniency intentionally added to make specials easier to preform.  This resulted in what is was known as "2 for 1" or as its known as now "canceling".  This majorly effected the game, as "stun" or "dizzy" was quite low in these game and allowed players to combo into Dizzy, then do the same combo again for massive damage or death.  This gave a huge advantage to those who utilize this "exploit" over those who couldn't.  But yet this "exploit" was accepted and more players actually took issue of how OP throws were, an intended game mechanic.

But SFII is an old ass game, an future games have since toned down combos and dizzies, surely players reject exploits found in newer modern games.

(Ultimate) Marvel Vs. Capcom 3: The developer wanting to avoid the problems of "Touch of Death" or "Infinite" combos that plagued the earlier "VS" game series.  They implemented measures such as "Damage prorated" and "Increase push back" during combos to prevent them.  However players over the game's life have discovered methods to bypass this and both TODs and Infinites became a thing anyways.  Of course the players rejected this for going against the developer intentions, right?

 

I argue that everything @Somethin Cool list, speed-shift, DT, Ghost isn't anything that prevent counselors from doing what they do, is counterable, and doesn't go against the spirit of the game.  Jason already has a literal teleport and shift (not necessarily in the movies exactly), most of his tech is a combination of abilities.  But how about abduct?  Isn't it unfair that Jason grabs you and you can't be saved or you are drowned and can't use a PK?  Go back to the first thing learned day one,  Don't Get Grabbed!!  How is it fair for Jason to have missed the Tommy call and now suddenly surrounded by 5 Vanessa w/ Med+TS holding machetes and Axes without any tools to separate them?  If a Jason is skilled enough to do a quick abduct or ghost abduct into the waters, then he deserves the kill.  Some counselor tech that is strong I want to mention, is Spray canceling.  It solves a problem of being a sitting duck while spraying and you have some options still even if you're crippled.  I know many pup Jason's may not appreciate it, but its isn't all the game breaking, and adds needed dynamic into combat, so I'm fine with it.

Of course not all exploits are equal.  While certain exploits can enhance the game giving additional depth or tools lacking with the baked it options, other goes against the spirit of the game or straight up break it.   Going back to my earlier example of fighting game, SFII had several locking glitches, most infamous one is Guile's Handcuff Glitch.  This glitch locks the other player to Guile, both player can't hit each other, and will lock the game on time out.  MVC3, more modern example again, this locking glitch was pulled out at this event.

ChrisG, the true all time great that he is, said "Let it rock" and still won.  This is immediately banned from competitive play.  An F13 parallel to this would be, of course, the flair-gun crash (ends the game for everyone instantly).  One that any Jason player can relate to is "Glitch to any spot that Jason can't get access to".  How about ones where the counselors are still active on the map?  Sliding is one of the strongest, game altering, exploits.  Not only does it makes the counselor invisible during it's length (honestly if it was only that I wouldn't have a problem with it), but more importantly it locks the stamina to what value it was on when it was initiated (due to a swing property).  This completely destroys the stamina managing aspect of the game since a player can spam it, effectively an pseudo infinite stamina.  Luckly this is hard to do consistantly, but it can be done with practice........ or with the help of macros and cronos.  Not only is it silly to watch, it completetly breaks the 'spirit' of the game.  Combine it with other glitches (Spray Canceling, Pk Cloning) with meta perks (Med+TS) then you have a nill impossible to kill counselor.   All 7 skilled counselors doing this, I don't care how good of a Jason you are, it's not going to be a good experience.

There is also Trap bypass, I don't really wanna talk about it too much, it obvious why it's BS. :P.

At the end of the day, this community is too fractured to ever come up with a rule set everyone is happy with.   If you wanna play a game with your own standards, play in Private Matches.  That is what League Players do, tournament games there are rules everyone abide to.  I know a lot people complain that league players "cheat" when they are in Public Lobbies, but in truth, these players don't give a shit.  To them, public games are throw-aways, for practice, or to troll.  There isn't anything at stake for them, the outcome of a public game matter nothing at all.  If you have an rules set that you think is fair, convince other players to play in Private game with you.  The idea of everyone conforming to some "perfect" rules in a public lobby is both silly and not practical.  Gun isn't handing out ban for glitching, anything that the game engine allows is up for grabs.  If you don't like how someone plays, just leave, simple solution.

PS: I'm sure someone going to point out that F13 isn't an competitive game like FGs are.  While its true that the saturation of competitive minded player is drastically less for this game.  But the goal is similar, two different sides want a different outcome.  It's each players choice of how often he gets his way through invested time, knowledge, and dedication on any given game.  Some player care about getting their outcome more often than others.  If you don't like it, ether do something about it to beat them, or just play with other people.

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13 hours ago, Carlso said:

If they are bad, why do you use them? 😑

I'm not the one that said they're bad.

13 hours ago, Carlso said:

They do make the game stupidly easier, especially side-shift and abduction.

Abduction isn't easy. At all. Side shift? Really? 😂 Side shift=exploit. Wedging yourself into a wall=not exploit? Something smells like bullshit... 🧐 

13 hours ago, Carlso said:

Btw, what do you think about infinite PK or the throwing knife car glitch? What is the limit for the so-called "techs"?

I've done more to get exploits fixed for this game than any of you ever will. So there's that...

13 hours ago, Top_Cat said:

Claiming cheating is necessary and a smart choice is a joke. It’s not about being too blind to see it. Your openly admitting to cheating in an online game. 

Tech. Tech is a smart choice. There's all kinds of tech. Back in my day people used to write entire books teaching players how to master games based on that games meta. Including but not limited to loopholes in the games coding. Strategy guides, map guides, they had everything figured out. Usually the best stuff was found in the tips and tricks section. What we do (myself and a few other like minded individuals) is not unlike those guides. We find new strategies. We develop tech. We teach anyone willing to listen.

Btw any strategy worth using in this particular game today was originally developed by what you would consider to be "cheaters." 

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if you were a good player, you wouldn't have to search for exploits in this game and pass it off as a technique. All that such as you have done is to allow the toxic community to spoil the game for other players.

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12 minutes ago, Nibori said:

if you were a good player, you wouldn't have to search for exploits in this game and pass it off as a technique. All that such as you have done is to allow the toxic community to spoil the game for other players.

Dude, you don't get it.  The players to know all these "tricks" knows just about everything about this game.  These are the players, often been around the longest, that make guides, tutorials, do research to find new and interesting things.  They are also are tired and bored of whatever is "normal" play and want to push it forward.  This is important and good for a game that isn't going to get new content any time soon.

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3 minutes ago, 82912 said:

maybe it is? i dont know its not my place to say

Say whatever you want.  Don't worry, we're all just a bunch of assholes :P

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2 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

Dude, you don't get it.  The players to know all these "tricks" knows just about everything about this game.  These are the players, often been around the longest, that make guides, tutorials, do research to find new and interesting things.  They are also are tired and bored of whatever is "normal" play and want to push it forward.  This is important and good for a game that isn't going to get new content any time soon.

Exactly this.

I actually tried it the other day. I was going to play a Jason match without using any tricks or exploits. I'm talking banging out doors using default animation and everything. Just to prove I didn't need advanced tech to wipe a lobby. Second shift was a no start up. Third shift was a strafe. I'd get within swinging range of a door, go into CS, hit it once, then have to leave CS to break a single unlocked door down in two minutes flat.

I've practiced this stuff so much that I do it all without thinking. Knife cancel, block cancel, shift tech, door tech, it's all burnt into my play style. The same as memorizing the tower guide and key morph pins for every map. 

And by league/tourney standards I'm a shit Jason. I don't have near the seat time of a top tier Jason. On a good day I can keep up. But just because I know all the tricks. On a bad day I go 1/7 and end up with an axe in my skull. But each match gives me a little more knowledge. Which in turn makes me a little bit better.

Now I'd imagine all that extra practice burns the inputs that much deeper into a top tier players core. Asking one of them to change their play style for pubs would be like asking a zebra to change it's stripes.

If you're not interested in learning new tactics and making yourself better, then what the hell is the point of playing? So you can say you wiped your tenthousandth lobby full of players under level 75 that weren't even trying to do anything?

Good job

👍😎👍

2 hours ago, Nibori said:

if you were a good player, you wouldn't have to search for exploits in this game and pass it off as a technique. All that such as you have done is to allow the toxic community to spoil the game for other players.

Toxic players are map exploiters, 10 year old Jason teamers, and that asshole that quits the match as soon as it starts because he didn't get picked to be Jason. Tournament players may stick around after the cops arrive just to throw you a beating, but if you can keep your cool long enough, you just might learn something.

If you figure out how to deal with a couple of them then you'll never have a problem with an average lobby again. I don't bother Tommy boxing anymore. I haven't trapped the shack door in a long time, unless Tommy and sweater were already inside. It's just not that much of a problem anymore.

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@GeneiJin All that you said is true, but let's be honest against a fair team that doesn't abuse game mechanics, Jason can get 8/8. Exploits are only necessary for Jason because counselors ALSO use exploits. If none used exploits the game would be much better.

Yes, tournament players abuse in-game things throughout all games, this is not something specific to F13. There was a For Honor tournament that a guy using exploits won. Guess what happened to FH's players base? Went downhill. Cheats, abuses, and exploits can be a good thing for tournament players, but for us casual players, responsible for 90% of the profit of the games, they just look dirty.

When I play this game, I don't play to win. I just want to have fun with my friends, I just want to play like Jason. Do you think Jason is able to become invisible, and why the hell are counselors able to teleport? What would you think if it was an in-game mechanic? Of course: it would be fucking stupid. Imagine if that bullshit was in the game trailer: "Enjoy F13 the game, where teenagers can teleport and Jason can become invisible"... no one would give a miserable cent for that shit. You also wouldn't give... so why do you think it's okay to make this game look like a glitched mess?

All of these exploits, like the one who originated SF combos, or even that bug that made Space Invaders faster at each second, were good to their games. However, they were good not because players abused them, but because game devs introduced mechanics based on that glitches with proper balance. It would be very cool if all of these became F13 part 2 in-game mechanics (so they would not look as bad and glitchy as they are now). But until then, this is all straight-up dirty cheats and a drag away player machine.

Othe games like DBD the community has some agreements on what is good and what is bad for the game. For example, camping the hook is a valid strategy to secure a kill, however, it is extremely unhealthy for the game. Therefore, the DBD community recognize that as a problem and most killers don't camp, even though they might lose if they don't do it. I would like F13's community had a similar agreement in regards to cheats, at least on casual matches.

I just want to have fun and feel like I am really in Friday the 13th, both as a counselor, as well as Jason. Let us enjoy our last moments with this amazing game.

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@Somethin Cool. Originally you said the following...

On 8/22/2020 at 6:49 PM, Somethin Cool said:

To be completely honest there aren't enough pub lobby players that even know how to do any of this stuff for it to ever be an issue. I don't even know why you're bringing it up. But good job sharing how to do every Jason "exploit" on the forums.

Then more recently you said...

On 8/25/2020 at 10:40 PM, Somethin Cool said:

I play pubs all the time and rarely ever run into a player that knows how to do any tech, counselor or Jason. I honestly wish I did run into them more often. It's a lot more fun playing with a group that knows what they're doing.

 

16 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

What we do (myself and a few other like minded individuals) is not unlike those guides. We find new strategies. We develop tech. We teach anyone willing to listen.

 

10 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

If you're not interested in learning new tactics and making yourself better, then what the hell is the point of playing?

So my questions to you are - why was your initial reaction to this topic one of annoyance at the thought of all this Jason "tech" being made public information to the forum? What's the difference between Guru's vid and the supposed stratagies you (and others) develop and put out there? Is learning "tech" a selective thing? And lastly, if you are so willing to teach, where do I sign up? I feel I am ready to elevate my game to the next level.

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6 hours ago, Carlso said:

@GeneiJin All that you said is true, but let's be honest against a fair team that doesn't abuse game mechanics, Jason can get 8/8. Exploits are only necessary for Jason because counselors ALSO use exploits. If none used exploits the game would be much better.

 

I play only one way, and that is what I call "normal" for me.  Just like @Somethin Cool said about his playstyle, everything is muscle memory and I do it without thinking.  It's harder for me actually to make an effort to not play that way.  And if I did limit myself, its really not as fun for me.  If it wasn't obvious from my big post, I'm a fan of fighting games, and doing complex inputs to get cool "specials" is really fun for me, and adds additional enjoyment in the game, on both sides.  I also play with the assumption that every 7 players is every bit as good as I am, with access to the same bag of counselor "tricks" I know of, so I play on "Max" mode from the very start.  I rather not underestimate the lobby just because it's public and then put myself in an early hole because I didn't realize that I have some tournament or elite players.

6 hours ago, Carlso said:

Yes, tournament players abuse in-game things throughout all games, this is not something specific to F13. There was a For Honor tournament that a guy using exploits won. Guess what happened to FH's players base? Went downhill. Cheats, abuses, and exploits can be a good thing for tournament players, but for us casual players, responsible for 90% of the profit of the games, they just look dirty.

That is a matter of perspective.  The community as a whole, likely the competitive ones have the most influence, decides on which "exploits" or "tech" will be acceptable in competition.  Its also the devs job to also gauge what is being found and decide if they want to patch it out or tone them down.  Can exploits drag a game down for the greater community, sure, but it isn't the individual player's responsibility to govern it, their job is only to play and win.  If the game allows for it, and in the case of an competition, there is no rules against use them, exploits/tech are fair game.  If you don't wanna use it, fine, but that is a self imposed limitation, you have access to the same tech if you care to use it.  That is fair.  Also, lets not get delusional that the only thing that separates top players with casual are exploits.  As the game gets older, the hardcore players gets stronger, while interest with the more casual players drops.  At some point the casuals can't keep up or compete at any level, and to a lot of these players, the idea of practice, dedication, and doing homework for their hobby isn't fun for them.

6 hours ago, Carlso said:

All of these exploits, like the one who originated SF combos, or even that bug that made Space Invaders faster at each second, were good to their games. However, they were good not because players abused them, but because game devs introduced mechanics based on that glitches with proper balance. It would be very cool if all of these became F13 part 2 in-game mechanics (so they would not look as bad and glitchy as they are now). But until then, this is all straight-up dirty cheats and a drag away player machine.
 

Agreed, this is why I mentioned that not all exploits are equal.  Some do help deepen the game, while others breaks it as how I illustrated with my selected video examples.  But I remind you, there are no referees in Quick Play.  Any thing is up for grabs, and, like it or not, we can't do anything to force players to play a particular way.  While some players want to ban all "non intentional"  mechanics, others want everything possible to be used.  Personal, I fall in the middle, some exploits add more options to heighten the game.  Spray canceling allows counselor more flexibility in healing when otherwise they be an easy target for Jason allowing them to better stand toe-to-toe with Jason (I'm a battle nut, so I enjoy this on both sides), and Jason's abduction makes his grab an actual threat when otherwise a group can easily stay together an wait for opportunities to land stun and damage (and its not without its drawbacks, if Jason abduct at a wrong time, he may get a kill but he morphed away to give counselor time to regroup or push, and if he wiffs the grab he wasted a morph).  Of course, there are exploits that are too strong.  Sliding is too OP, so much that it makes combat irrelevant and devolves the game into something like this: cat.gif&f=1&nofb=1

, but then again, that's maybe just my opinion, and if I cared to make a list of acceptable exploits, it would only be in the context of competition or private games I'm hosting.

6 hours ago, Carlso said:

Othe games like DBD the community has some agreements on what is good and what is bad for the game. For example, camping the hook is a valid strategy to secure a kill, however, it is extremely unhealthy for the game. Therefore, the DBD community recognize that as a problem and most killers don't camp, even though they might lose if they don't do it. I would like F13's community had a similar agreement in regards to cheats, at least on casual matches.

I doubt higher up on the latter players have such reservations.  It's like an "gentlemen's agreement" not to throw in local arcades during SFII heyday.  But that doesn't fly when you get higher up and players want to win in whatever fashion the rules will allow them to.

6 hours ago, Carlso said:

I want to have fun and feel like I am really in Friday the 13th, both as a counselor, as well as Jason. Let us enjoy our last moments with this amazing game.

As do I, and just about anyone here who played and love this game.  However, everyone has a different idea of what is "fun" to them.  Players are going to play how they want, and their are not going to listen to some arbitrary rules some guy is preaching to them.  They don't know you or respect you just as much as you don't know them or respect them.  QP is an melting pot, there is fun to be found there, but expect to find a durpfest every now and then.

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The fact remains that these exploits/cheats/techs what ever you decide to call them are not going away but maybe 1 or 2 of them by the next patch. Hopefully sliding and the pocket knife are the 2 that do fingers crossed. The rest it'll  be slow going if any at all get fixed. Too much recoding involved to do all at once and I don't see many more patches coming unfortunately. With no penalties for using them, they are going to get used like it or not. Debating whether it is "moral"  to use them is kind of a mute point. Will it cause  the casual player base who don't want to take time to learn the counters or learn to do them to quit playing? I'm sure to a degree it will.

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11 minutes ago, TimDuke 01 said:

The fact remains that these exploits/cheats/techs what ever you decide to call them are not going away but maybe 1 or 2 of them by the next patch. Hopefully sliding and the pocket knife are the 2 that do fingers crossed. The rest it'll  be slow going if any at all get fixed. Too much recoding involved to do all at once and I don't see many more patches coming unfortunately. With no penalties for using them, they are going to get used like it or not. Debating whether it is "moral"  to use them is kind of a mute point. Will it cause just the casual player base who don't want to take time to learn the counters or learn to do them to quit playing? I'm sure to a degree it will.

Right.  I hope the devs are smart and spend time determining which exploits are worth to deal with.  If it was me, it would be sliding and trap-bypass.  I'm not too concern right now about PK cloning, since I know how to deal with it, but I can understand how this can get out of hand in an high-octane match, so I do want this fixed.

Speak of casuals, while no doubt they get pissed off with sliding, especially since this isn't easy for them to do, but I can imagine many of these players (at least the counselor-only ones :P) will like the PK cloning as they are the ones complaining on how "OP" or "Unfair" Jason and shift-grabbing is.  PK cloning is brain-dead easy.

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PK cloning is just going to cause Jason players to start slashing everyone to avoid it cause you don't know who may use it against you and you know how people get all bent if you only slash. It's a cause and effect type of thing. Once you get a reputation of being a slasher everyone leaves the lobby if you become Jason. A catch 22 scenario.

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10 minutes ago, TimDuke 01 said:

PK cloning is just going to cause Jason players to start slashing everyone to avoid it cause you don't know who may use it against you and you know how people get all bent if you only slash. It's a cause and effect type of thing. Once you get a reputation of being a slasher everyone leaves the lobby if you become Jason. A catch 22 scenario.

I prefer to abduct them into the waters, but slashing works too I suppose :P lol

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2 hours ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

why was your initial reaction to this topic one of annoyance at the thought of all this Jason "tech" being made public information to the forum?

Because I knew it would get taken out of context And be shown as one sided by a bunch of people who don't know what they're talking about. Would you like me to make an Ultimate Counselor Guide? If you think Jason tech is game breaking, you haven't seen anything yet. Luckily we don't promote counselor tech because I guarantee you that guide would get double the views of this one.

2 hours ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

What's the difference between Guru's vid and the supposed stratagies you (and others) develop and put out there?

Nothing except context. Read the description of Guru's video. I'm credited for my contribution.

2 hours ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

Is learning "tech" a selective thing?

No. But it takes an open mind. You all act like I'm only including things like ghosting as tech. To you that might seem new. To me that's old news. Nobody cares. If you'd like to see how worthless it is, go learn how to do it and then try using it in a match. 

2 hours ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

And lastly, if you are so willing to teach, where do I sign up?

Again, read the description of Guru's video.

 

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2 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

I doubt higher up on the latter players have such reservations.

Of course, not on tournaments, not on private matches. But watch TrUta1ent's vids, he's always concerned about if he's camping or not because he doesn't want to be what is considered by the community "toxic killer". This has its downsides tho once will emerge a bunch of crybabies pointing and accusing each other of being toxic, but at least it would not be the glitch festival that F13 is.

Again, if counselors teleported or Jason had the magic powers to become invisible on the trailer back in 2016, would you buy this game? 90% sure you wouldn't because it looks like a mess of a game, and it is.

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On 8/28/2020 at 10:33 PM, Somethin Cool said:

Because I knew it would get taken out of context And be shown as one sided by a bunch of people who don't know what they're talking about. Would you like me to make an Ultimate Counselor Guide? If you think Jason tech is game breaking, you haven't seen anything yet. Luckily we don't promote counselor tech because I guarantee you that guide would get double the views of this one.

Fair enough. Not wanting to call you a liar, but your words were, "good job sharing how to do every Jason "exploit" on the forums." Don't know about anyone else, but I took that to mean that you weren't too keen on others knowing this "tech". But either way you have now clarified that you are willing to teach and I embrace that. Would I like an Ultmate Counselor Guide? Sure, why not! But if you don't promote counselor tech then why dangle the carrot? There's something not cool about that.

On 8/28/2020 at 10:33 PM, Somethin Cool said:

Nothing except context. Read the description of Guru's video. I'm credited for my contribution.

So I see. I guess it's safe to say that you're all for this type of gameplay to be widely used, more often, in QP and tournaments alike. Fair enough, but R.I.P to all newbies, lol. The fact this game has no ranking system is gonna suck for them once "tech" becomes the norm and Support has said "deuces." At least there's rankings in fight games to separate the tech savvy from the button mashers. God forbid Justin Wong ever decides to play F13 😂

On 8/28/2020 at 10:33 PM, Somethin Cool said:

No. But it takes an open mind. You all act like I'm only including things like ghosting as tech. To you that might seem new. To me that's old news. Nobody cares. If you'd like to see how worthless it is, go learn how to do it and then try using it in a match.

No one has said you are narrowing down the exploits/tech to Ghosting and a few others. At least not me. So far forum memebers have discussed it all from door breaking to Ghost Walking to Counselor Sliding. And I know there's more - Counselor invincible bed glitch (not tech per se), Jason can Shift whilst destroying gens, closets etc., Jason can move while stunned by firecrackers (not in Rage mode), to name a few. Nothing mentioned thus far in this thread is new to me either. I play the game fairly often and have access to YouTube just as much as the next person; all the info is out there for those who care to look for it. Why call Ghosting worthless when you know it's not? I have seen Jason snatch a SG Vanessa from right next to Tommy. Took him several attempts but he got it in the end and saved himself from being killed. Just as you said, these actions have become second nature to you and there is clear reason as to why that is - they are worth the time and effort, and you don't need to knock down every door in Packanack for this to be fact. @GeneiJin didn't downplay the exploits/tech and made his points clear as day, and I understood a little bit better why "tech" users do what they do with or without the necessity for doing it, and as such my mind is now open.

On 8/28/2020 at 10:33 PM, Somethin Cool said:

Again, read the description of Guru's video.

I see a couple of discord links. Is the path to F13 enlightenment within? What's with the vagueness?

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20 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

Abduction isn't easy. At all. Side shift? Really? 😂 Side shift=exploit. Wedging yourself into a wall=not exploit? Something smells like bullshit... 🧐 

I'm sure there are people who can perform Abduction like they were the one that invented it, but I can't pull it off unless the counselor is standing completely still for several seconds (thus why I only do it to counselors who are either giving up, or who weren't going to be killed in the first place)

To claim Side-Shifting is an exploit is just laughable. The only benefit of Side/Wedge/Wobble Shifting is slightly better control of your Shift. Speed Shifting gives you a little bit of extra distance and that's ALL, and is easier to avoid than regular Shifting since Jason stays visible a bit longer. 

On a different note, I would have thought that league games and tournaments would be the one place were any exploits of any kind would be banned. 

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16 minutes ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

There's somthing not cool about that.

😢

16 minutes ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

So I see. I guess it's safe to say that you're all for this type of gameplay to be widely used, more often, in QP and tournaments alike. Fair enough, but R.I.P to all newbies, lol. The fact this game has no ranking system is gonna suck for them once "tech" becomes the norm and Support has said deuces. At least there's a level system in fight games to separate the tech savvy from the button mashers. God forbid Justin Wong ever decide to play F13 😂

 

19 minutes ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

I play the game fairly often and have access to YouTube just as much as the next person; all the info is out there for those who care to look for it.

You just solved your own problem. The tech is out there for anyone who cares to look for it. 

23 minutes ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

Why call Ghosting worthless when you know it's not? I have seen Jason snatch a SG Vanessa from right next to Tommy. Took him several attempts but he got it in the end and saved himself from being killed.

More often than not it's not effective. People gravitate to this particular one because the thought of it is OP. Funny little side story, the last time I died in a pub lobby I was trying to quick abduct a sweater girl. Missed the inputs and got the axe instead. 

2 minutes ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

On a different note, I would have thought that league games and tournaments would be the one place were any exploits of any kind would be banned. 

The bold truth is that Jason is still weak. It's still too easy to get overpowered by a group of counselors that are knowledgeable. Even if the only tech allowed to them is spray cancel, which is the case for most league/tournament play. That's why more Jason tech is allowed than counselor tech. To balance the game play. On the rare occasion they hold an all exploits tourney, the Jason players usually don't get more than 3 kills per match. And even then map exploits are not allowed.

Bottom line is that's why I promote Jason tech. I'm just trying to level the playing field. There's absolutely nothing Jason can do in a match that's game breaking. No matter what, he can't be 7 places at once.

6 minutes ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

I'm sure there are people who can perform Abduction like they were the one that invented it,

Yeah there's probably ten players I know that are pretty good at it, but you still have to land the grab. 

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