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Hey everyone

Im really excited for the new legendary perks that are soon been released on friday13th! What is everyone hoping for?

However i was wondering why doesnt jason have perks, I get he has plenty of grab kills, But wouldn't it be great for him to have perks of his own?

Recovering from stuns/pocket knifes quicker?

Picking up and reusing bear traps? Or been able to set traps inside?(Counselors already have this ability) 

If you could pick a perk for Jason what would it be?

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Honestly I don't care about the new Legendary perks unless the perk system/individual useless perks are fixed. Jason doesn't really need perks. He just needs his own abilities to be less unbalanced. Only +Destruction, +Weapon Damage, +Shift, and +Morph are particularly meaningful. If you're happy the Legendary Perks are coming, good on you man. They just don't do anything for me the way the game works now.

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Yeah i can see where you are coming from, there are loads of useless perks, (the closing doors quicker perk baffles me, as it takes less than a second anyways) but i do like the medic and no loss of mini map. 

Do you think maybe the weapon changes/swapping that are coming for Jason may balance his abilities?

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6 minutes ago, Doyle_1989 said:

Do you think maybe the weapon changes/swapping that are coming for Jason may balance his abilities?

The abilities will likely remained tied to individual Jasons and not weapons. The only variables I can see weapons affecting are reach, weapon hitbox profiles/animations, possibly swing speed (no word on this from the Devs), and the kill animations tied to them.

The problems with useful perks versus useless perks has not been addressed.....yet. I hope the Devs do listen to our discussions about them and consider making some adjustments. Like you said..barricading doors faster? Really. Pretty pointless. If they did something like the example below, you might be able pool enough situational bonuses under one thematic perk to make it so someone might use it. As it is now, barricading a door faster is a sad waste of a perk slot IMO.

Prepper:

Barricades doors faster. +%

Locked/Barricaded doors have +% hit points.

Sets bear traps faster.

Legendary bonus: Starts with a bear trap.

+Fear accumulation outdoors.

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The legendary perks are a stupid idea, I don't see how anyone can be excited for them.. It's just more RNG garbage that we have to deal with AND it makes counselors even stronger than they already are.. I've mentioned this many times but it took me over 500 hours of gameplay to roll a single epic marathon.. That shit is completely unacceptable and I am not looking forward to another endless grind.

Also, Jason doesn't need perks. They just need to work on balancing the + - system they already have. We are almost a year after release and Part 7 is still useless, despite rampant complaints from the community..

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With the legendary perks i was kinda hoping they drop some of the pointless perks, like climbing out of a window faster or the closing door quicker. And maybe inprove on stamina perks? I dunno.

Yeah a few people have mentioned how badly balanced he is...

Im also glad you mentioned Jason part 7 i totally agree there! Especially because you have to use him in order to get the dismemberment achievement! Which again i was annoyed about because its not only DLC kill, but its like 1000cp aswell! I felt right ripped off about that!

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8 hours ago, Alkavian said:

The abilities will likely remained tied to individual Jasons and not weapons. The only variables I can see weapons affecting are reach, weapon hitbox profiles/animations, possibly swing speed (no word on this from the Devs), and the kill animations tied to them.

The problems with useful perks versus useless perks has not been addressed.....yet. I hope the Devs do listen to our discussions about them and consider making some adjustments. Like you said..barricading doors faster? Really. Pretty pointless. If they did something like the example below, you might be able pool enough situational bonuses under one thematic perk to make it so someone might use it. As it is now, barricading a door faster is a sad waste of a perk slot IMO.

Prepper:

Barricades doors faster. +%

Locked/Barricaded doors have +% hit points.

Sets bear traps faster.

Legendary bonus: Starts with a bear trap.

+Fear accumulation outdoors.

I totally agree. Combining useless perks into one could do the job.

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3 hours ago, The Gunslinger said:

I totally agree. Combining useless perks into one could do the job.

That is pretty much my thoughts on it. We know from all the useless perks the kinds of things that can be affected with the current game mechanics. I think the Devs need to start blending extremely situational perks into single perks. Those situational bonuses may be unattractive by themselves, but if packaged and balanced the right way, may offer some intriguing play options people may want to explore. Game balance does need to be considered but I do not think a perk (like the one I just suggested in this thread) made from blended situational benefits will have enough overall impact to cause a severe meta shift or make things too overpowered for counselors.

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16 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

That is pretty much my thoughts on it. We know from all the useless perks the kinds of things that can be affected with the current game mechanics. I think the Devs need to start blending extremely situational perks into single perks. Those situational bonuses may be unattractive by themselves, but if packaged and balanced the right way, may offer some intriguing play options people may want to explore. Game balance does need to be considered but I do not think a perk (like the one I just suggested in this thread) made from blended situational benefits will have enough overall impact to cause a severe meta shift or make things too overpowered for counselors.

Great idea! Far better than outright removing them.

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I think it could be solved by making a perk pyramid, basically to get the best perks you would have to figure out which two lesser perks allow you to have the better perk. To get the top perk, you'd need to balance the middle two. This could allow for counselors to fit into character types as well ie. prankster, medic, Athlete, or Driver.

I've been putting off writing out the whole thing as it would require actual work to figure out the best balances, and if I posted them here there would be nothing for players to figure out. I really do think this could balance the perks, and round out the character types in the game. It would destroy the old meta because the best perks would be moved up to the second/third level. It would result in a bit of a counselor buff because counselors would end up with six perks, but only ones in that pyramid, if they wanted to fill all six slots. Some players might purposely try pyramids that are only five slots as they want a different in between the classes type of counselor.

Example: prankster

Low Profile

Sneaky.           Firecracker.

Scout.       Night owl.      Pyro.

 

Variant Two

Nerves of Steel

Preparedness.       Lightfoot

Evasion.        Heavy Sleeper.      Escape artist

 

These are just off the top of my head examples, they haven't been balanced, except minimally. So these examples may have some problems I didn't think of. The first level doesn't give you any extra bonus, the second level gives you a small bonus, ie. start with an item. The third level gives you the really good perk (my examples fail in this, damn) but I was thinking Thick Skin, Medic, would be at the top of the Athlete, and Medic class pyramids. 

If you want me to do the work, I'm not really opposed to it, I'm just not sure there would be a point if the forum isn't interested. Let me know what you think, or if you want more examples. Perk do need a rework, and there have been lots of really good suggestions of how to do it, if this could benefit someone else's idea feel free to borrow it. We all want a better system.

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1 hour ago, Slasher_Clone said:

I think it could be solved by making a perk pyramid

I don't really understand the suggestion... I also don't get the relation to the OP's suggestion of Jason perks...

I feel like you're on to something here, but you're having trouble explaining it. Or more likely, I'm just having trouble understanding it.

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4 hours ago, Truth said:

Great idea! Far better than outright removing them.

No need to reinvent the wheel. Just improve on it in terms of what they do. ?

Less square wheel...more round. 

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It isn't in direct response to the OP, more the general conversation. Also isn't really about Jason but he might end up with it too if they gave him perks.

Like I said I haven't worked it all out, as that would actually require real work, the kind people are paid for but your right I did explain it badly. Let's try again.

So let's say I want my counselor to be a medic for my team. Medic would be at the top of the pyramid, as it doubles your uses of health spray, and is OP. To get it you would have to have the mid. level perks Hypochondriac and Friendship. To get these two perks the bottom three of the pyramid would be required, to get Hypochondriac you would need Ice Cold and Teamwork. Friendship would require Teamwork and Homebody. 

So the second perk in the bottom row would be required for both the middle row perks, and both middle row perks are required for the top one. If you had all six perks in a pyramid you would have met all the requirements to be a certain class of counselor, listed above. Some counselors would favor some classes, but it wouldn't stop a different counselor from building that pyramid. The bonuses would hopefully stack in a useful way for even the most unlikely counselor and class. 

Medic 

Hypochondriac.   Friendship.

Ice Cold.         Teamwork.        Homebody. 

Hope that explains it better, not every perk would be available at the highest level. So for example, if you wanted Thick Skin, building the Medic pyramid wouldn't allow you to take it at the top. 

 

 

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@Slasher_Clone I think I get it now, or at least I have a better understanding.

So we would still only have 3 perks equipped, but it would have the effects of 6? Different combinations on the bottom would give you a different outcome on the next tier, and ultimately the top perk?

You're essentially making it so we use the "useless" perks to sort of create the "good" perk, right?

Edit: Or am I just really stupid today?

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@Slasher_Clone 

Brilliant concept...can i ask, how would you go about the time scale? I mean you have to put in the hours to have a good roll and set of perks anyways, and then to build them? 

Would it still be based on a rolling perk? It could take ages to roll the perks needed in order to build the all the correct pyramids?  

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@Truth, That is kinda simplifying it, the whole pyramid would show up on you counselors character screen. Learning which perks worked together to unlock second and eventually third tier perks would be part of the fun. It would mean getting double the perks but balancing them at the same time by limiting each character to one OP perk, two in the middle, one you want and one that might not be what you want but you need to get the top one, and three you probably never play with but might kinda be fun to have. 

The different combinations of perk would, define your character type/class, giving you a leg up that helps your team in specific ways. Some characters would be naturally inclined to be certain types/classes. To use Vanessa as an example she might have a pyramid that has to do with sports, maybe swimming. Anyone else could build the swimming athlete pyramid but it suits Vanessa the best. Shelly is a prankster, but Chad could just as easily benefit from the prankster pyramid.

When I first thought of it, I realized this would happen, it's not an easy idea to explain with out visual aids. I wish I had a tenth of some of our members graphical skills. Without explaining each pyramid in detail, you'd have more perks but only one really sweet one, and some metas for certain counselors could be made less effective, while at the same time making weaker counselors more effective. 

Edit - @Doyle_1989, yeah I would want to remove/rework perk rolling or have a bigger library that you can fill. Could try to build it using @Alkavian's idea of preforming actions to earn the low/mid tier perks and being rewarded with the top tier. See what I mean about work, lol. 

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8 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

That is kinda simplifying it

That's what I do best.

It does sound like a pretty decent idea. I don't think I would mind it.

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Damn it, @Truth. Out of all of my posts the one that requires real bloody work is the one you like, that just figures. Most of my suggestion require the Devs to do the work, leaving me to enjoy the fruits of their labor. At least you got it, that means others should be able to figure it out, ;).

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Just now, Slasher_Clone said:

Damn it, @Truth. Out of all of my posts the one that requires real bloody work is the one you like, that just figures. Most of my suggestion require the Devs to do the work, leaving me to enjoy the fruits of their labor. At least you got it, that means others should be able to figure it out, ;).

I've liked a few of your ideas, this isn't the first. You're probably right about me liking the more difficult ones though lol

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Well maybe I'll keep fiddling with it, and see what else I can work out. The biggest problem is finding the right balance for ten plus counselors. Don't want to make it impossible for Jason, although if it worked for the counselors. Then Jason could get his own pyramids, although I figure his will only be three perks two at the bottom with one at the top. This way the counselors have a little more to be unsure about when seeing a specific Jason but he doesn't end up being a perk machine.

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It's not the concept of legendary perks that bothers me, its the fact that the game has already made counselors stronger than Jason, and this will make it worse. I would be fine if all perks gave you was a bit of a head start. I.e start with a bat, map, spray etc... Stop with the stat increases, strength etc. Most people I meet in the game these days don't want to be Jason because you know you will get tea bagged and beat up if people are even half decent at the game. I was Jason the other night and slashed a counselor 4 times and she ran away. Not even limping! 

my thoughts to fix it are simple. As above, get rid of stat boosts and gives only starting items. Get Jason back to the point that fighting him, even with 2 counselor's is suicide. You could make him get stunned less or allow him to throw his weapon for instant kill. I think Jason should win most matches and it should take team work and strong play to win. Not the ability to run in circles fast and stun him over and over again with a single hit. 

Also, hand out way more points for people doing the actual game tasks as opposed to just beating on Jason and running out the clock. I would remove extra points for surviving longer. In reality, you either live or die. If you die at 19 mins 59 seconds....you are still dead and lost the game! This would incentivize people to try and complete tasks and escape....you know, the point of the game! 

It's either that or sadly then yes I agree Jason needs incentives too. I don't want it, but you can counter the perks if he had one hit trap kills, or ability to break down doors in two shots. 

oh well! happy gaming

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