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DorianRo

How do you make the game enjoyable/Balanced for EVERYONE

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1 minute ago, stoney said:

You're playing against experienced counselors with communication, that is where your argument seems to be failing.

This addresses almost anything you can ask me: Link here

And are you sure about that?

 

The game is intended to be against counselors who communicate. You can't work your meta around the lowest common denominator. The idea is that the inexperienced start off doing bad, and as they learn, they up their game. As far as comms, people unwilling or unable to speak aid Jason greatly. Why do you think the dev's made proximity chat a thing? 

In that thread you linked to you say

"For starters, from here on out, anytime the word “balance” is used, it’s referring to the same definition as “fair.” Not as in “needs to be equal to Jason Voorhees.”

Well the balance does need to be equal for Jason. Both sides should have a 50% chance to win. The difference is that Jason plays alone, where the counselors need to spread their 50% among 7 players, one of whom will likely get a second life for a total of 8 opponents. With that I'm even assuming Jason won't "totally" win, or sweep. So if 2/7 players survive Jason still more or less wins, with a majority kill and the counselors who escape get out with their win. The trick is either being one of those counselors or through skill/coordination/luck doing better than 2/7. 

I only skimmed that post, and may read it more thoroughly later. The thing is no single counselor should be able to compete with Jason. A lone wolf may survive, but the truth is that there is safety in numbers, and a good use of planning and skills. Counselors being able to survive Jason only because they luck onto finding a bunch of pocket knives is a shitty mechanic. Back in the early days of the game, survival meant playing with tactics, communicating, and having gear for when you were outfoxed. Surviving was brag worthy then. When Jason was a punching bag and every La Choppa, Deb and A.J. could play Jason for a fool because pocketknives were in every third drawer? Not so much. 

As far as seeing if you're a top tier player? Yeah. I'm sure. We can round up the forum guys who can be vouched for being the best and we can see if you're top tier or not. 

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How often does anyone even see counselors truly working together?  Out of a 10 game match, I might see it ONCE 

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You don't even need to communicate to win, it just makes things easier. A Vanessa doesn't need to announce that they just stepped in every phone trap and that the phone is at Stillwater. The person who found the fuse doesn't need to announce that it is at the phone or where the phone is because it shows up on the map. A Vanessa/Tiffany who makes a habit of grabbing the sweater early on doesn't need to be able to speak to work together with the Tommy who is carrying a machete instead of his usual shotgun or baseball bat. Everyone doing their job individually will result in a good chance of at least one person escaping. Communication just makes it even easier.

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11 minutes ago, Risinggrave said:

The game is intended to be against counselors who communicate. You can't work your meta around the lowest common denominator. The idea is that the inexperienced start off doing bad, and as they learn, they up their game. As far as comms, people unwilling or unable to speak aid Jason greatly. Why do you think the dev's made proximity chat a thing? 

In that thread you linked to you say

"For starters, from here on out, anytime the word “balance” is used, it’s referring to the same definition as “fair.” Not as in “needs to be equal to Jason Voorhees.”

Well the balance does need to be equal for Jason. Both sides should have a 50% chance to win. The difference is that Jason plays alone, where the counselors need to spread their 50% among 7 players, one of whom will likely get a second life for a total of 8 opponents. With that I'm even assuming Jason won't "totally" win, or sweep. So if 2/7 players survive Jason still more or less wins, with a majority kill and the counselors who escape get out with their win. The trick is either being one of those counselors or through skill/coordination/luck doing better than 2/7. 

I only skimmed that post, and may read it more thoroughly later. The thing is no single counselor should be able to compete with Jason. A lone wolf may survive, but the truth is that there is safety in numbers, and a good use of planning and skills. Counselors being able to survive Jason only because they luck onto finding a bunch of pocket knives is a shitty mechanic. Back in the early days of the game, survival meant playing with tactics, communicating, and having gear for when you were outfoxed. Surviving was brag worthy then. When Jason was a punching bag and every La Choppa, Deb and A.J. could play Jason for a fool because pocketknives were in every third drawer? Not so much. 

As far as seeing if you're a top tier player? Yeah. I'm sure. We can round up the forum guys who can be vouched for being the best and we can see if you're top tier or not. 

I said I was probably one of the best, not the best.

What you just said is discussed in that post, so once you fully read it, get back with me. :) 

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I see plenty of...

1. Do nothings

2. People looking to kite Jason for 20 minutes and if Jason kills them before the timer expires...they ragequit

3. Look for the kill and if they fail...ragequit

Trust me. There are plenty of people who still find it very easy as counselor and don't bother escaping or working together because its just very boring to them. They will play the game they want to play whether its for their enjoyment or someone elses annoyance. Doesn't matter. They usually get mixed in with others who want to play to escape solely, this can be a good thing for Jason or bad.

I'd love to see how much/if anything would change for Jason players if they knew where the Tommy radio was/plus the generator tied to its power to start on the map, since it makes no sense that he knows where the phone is, the boat is, the cars are but not the radio. Would Jason players play the radio for the battle counselor/kill Jason meta or would they still go for other things? I feel like you could see a surge in Jason players playing for the radio and if nobody wants to bother with escaping...oh well. No Tommy for you.

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10 minutes ago, DorianRo said:

How often does anyone even see counselors truly working together?  Out of a 10 game match, I might see it ONCE 

Right!

@Man Behind the Mask

Team work and communication should not be a requirement to play this game.

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7 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

You don't even need to communicate to win, it just makes things easier. A Vanessa doesn't need to announce that they just stepped in every phone trap and that the phone is at Stillwater. The person who found the fuse doesn't need to announce that it is at the phone or where the phone is because it shows up on the map. A Vanessa/Tiffany who makes a habit of grabbing the sweater early on doesn't need to be able to speak to work together with the Tommy who is carrying a machete instead of his usual shotgun or baseball bat. Everyone doing their job individually will result in a good chance of at least one person escaping. Communication just makes it even easier.

This is very true from my experience. I participated in killing Jason twice last week while in QP lobbies where nobody had a mic.

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10 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

You don't even need to communicate to win, it just makes things easier. A Vanessa doesn't need to announce that they just stepped in every phone trap and that the phone is at Stillwater. The person who found the fuse doesn't need to announce that it is at the phone or where the phone is because it shows up on the map. A Vanessa/Tiffany who makes a habit of grabbing the sweater early on doesn't need to be able to speak to work together with the Tommy who is carrying a machete instead of his usual shotgun or baseball bat. Everyone doing their job individually will result in a good chance of at least one person escaping. Communication just makes it even easier.

I killed one Jason without teamwork yesterday because the random that was Tommy was level 147 and knew what he was doing, while I wore the sweater. You're assuming that in every quick play match there's an abundance of effective players which is the exact opposite of reality. 

Communication is key now. 

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3 minutes ago, stoney said:

 

Team work and communication should not be a requirement to play this game.

Its not a requirement tho.. But it sure helps to increase someones chances to survive.

 

19 minutes ago, Risinggrave said:

The game is intended to be against counselors who communicate. You can't work your meta around the lowest common denominator. The idea is that the inexperienced start off doing bad, and as they learn, they up their game.

Pretty much.   This^.


As if the game needs to be balanced around players who play badly.  Which if that where the case, would make the game horribly difficult for Jason players when up against counselors using even the slightest amount of team work.

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3 minutes ago, stoney said:

I killed one Jason without teamwork yesterday because the random that was Tommy was level 147 and knew what he was doing, while I wore the sweater. You're assuming that in every quick play match there's an abundance of effective players which is the exact opposite of reality. 

Communication is key now. 

Abundance? You needed two competent players who weren't even communicating. That's not an abundance.

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7 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Abundance? You needed two competent players who weren't even communicating. That's not an abundance.

It was Packanack small and Jason's cabin was right by the 4 door. It was never intended to happen, his mask came off from a few hits then a stun with a machete. I had to spam my flashlight at the shack for Tommy to take a hint, so that was communicating in a form. We last resorted and he chanced it with an ax.

He was the only competent one in that lobby. ONLY we survived! 

@HuDawg It's a requirement if you want to escape without dying 9 times out of 10, from competent Jasons.

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16 minutes ago, stoney said:

 

Team work and communication should not be a requirement to play this game.

I respectfully disagree. We wouldnt have counselors set up with the specific strengths and weaknesses they have if it wasnt intended for them to work together. 

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5 minutes ago, stoney said:

It was Packanack small and Jason's cabin was right by the 4 door. It was never intended to happen, his mask came off from a few hits then a stun with a machete. I had to spam my flashlight at the shack for Tommy to take a hint, so that was communicating in a form. We last resorted and he chanced it with an ax.

He was the only competent one in that lobby. ONLY we survived! 

@HuDawg It's a requirement if you want to escape without dying 9 times out of 10, from competent Jasons.

Lachappa laughs at your assertion.  He is the demigod you want in QP matches, and excels at soloing.

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20 minutes ago, stoney said:

Right!

@Man Behind the Mask

Team work and communication should not be a requirement to play this game.

Mabe you’re right... I just prefer it. It’s marketed as a 1vs7 asymmetrical 3rd person ... so maybe teamwork is implied. 

Either way we’re all entitled to an opinion. I’m very new and more of a casual player... the balance is fine for me. 

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Just now, A.J. Mason said:

I respectfully disagree. We wouldnt have counselors set up with the specific strengths and weaknesses they have if it wasnt intended for them to work together. 

Working together is different than forcing communication. You can easily work together by picking up a battery to show its location on a map, by undoing a trap, kiting Jason, repairing an objective, etc. But when completing those task requires telling your buddy when Jason is after you so either you can distract or they need to aid you due to lack of adequate defense, is when it crosses the line of fairness - because you can't expect effective teamwork with someone who might not have a mic, speak your language, know how to take a hint, etc.

4 minutes ago, Bropollocreed79 said:

Lachappa laughs at your assertion.  He is the demigod you want in QP matches, and excels at soloing

You should show me sometime!

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24 minutes ago, stoney said:

Right!

@Man Behind the Mask

Team work and communication should not be a requirement to play this game.

They aren't a requirement, they are part of the balance thought. Your just going to keep standing out on the road, insisting we're missing the goal posts you've moved farther and farther back. Play private matches then the balance can be 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v bigger 1, that seems to be the balance you want, but it's not the balance in the game. 

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This topic is on fire right now, so I would like to give my opinion on this.

Yes, We can all agree that Jason is meant to be a pretty powerful entity and challenge to go against. But here's my problem.
Remember before the update aired
LIVE, when the Dev's put this in the Patch Notes?

  • Reduced the number of Pocket Knives and Medical Sprays that can spawn per match

At first, I was pretty fine with this change. I thought that maybe they were gonna remove maybe 2 or 3 pocket knives from the entire Camps as a whole, and I thought that it was a pretty balanced nerf for the counselors according to what they said.

Now, when that update went LIVE with Roy (Part 5 Jason.) Words cannot describe how furious I was with the update. There's one fucking thing that pisses me off with the fucking devs, which is the fact that they never ever fucking clarify with any of the bullshit they say. How the absolute FUCK are you gonna put "Reduced the number of pocket knives that can spawn per match." But not "Tremendously Reduced the number of pocket knives that can spawn per match." This update pissed me off because now, finding a pocket knife is a fourth of the equivalency of finding a fucking Pamela Tape. Now with virtually no pocket knives in the match, how the hell do you expect me to survive the fucking game? There's rarely even anyone to help save people because a lot of people in this game are very uncoordinated and don't want to fucking work together. You even had the godamn nerves to give Jason a buff with the pocket knives, just to make me waste my stamina EVEN MORE because I fear Roy and Part 6 Jason limping me with only 2 hits from pocket knives. Let's not forget that the infamous pre-nerfed Jason grab has ONCE AGAIN, made a debut in the game.

I've even seen NEW PLAYERS as Jason get 8/8 multiple times against lobbies of players level 50 and above, that's pretty godamn terrible. This game is supposed to be BALANCED, not "Oh we favor this side-- Actually no we're fucking retarded, we like this side instead." I understand that not all people are good at Jason, so sometimes you have to resort to buffing Jason, but you don't have to fucking buff him to the point where he's virtually fucking all of us over. As a developer, your job is to make sure that both parties are happy at the end of the day. Dead By Daylight recently made a mistake, which is buffing the survivors to the point where using skill isn't present anymore. Now when a fucking Nurse or Hag or Trapper picks someone up when they're on the pallet, they can instantly stun them and not have to time it perfectly, which removes skill from the game; They also did the same with Flashlight Saves too.

My message to the developers of Gun Media and Illfonic of Friday The 13th: The Game, is: Fix your godamn game, and get your shit together. You need to really wake the fuck up and really think about how other players will react based on the poor decisions that you so choose to make.

-Qcici

download-11.jpg.49885918809f34daea3cc14743e6f209.jpg

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1 minute ago, Slasher_Clone said:

They aren't a requirement, they are part of the balance thought. Your just going to keep standing out on the road, insisting we're missing the goal posts you've moved farther and farther back. Play private matches then the balance can be 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v bigger 1, that seems to be the balance you want, but it's not the balance in the game. 

If it's not a requirement, then why does everyone insist teamwork is essential now?  

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1 minute ago, stoney said:

If it's not a requirement, then why does everyone insist teamwork is essential now?  

Teamwork is essential. Teamwork is not communication. The mute Vanessa who stepped in all the traps and then led Jason on a chase just made repair very easy. The Vanessa who grabs a bat and goes and seeks out Jason so she can teabag him for a minute before ragequitting as soon as he grabs her is not making repair very easy.

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Just now, stoney said:

Working together is different than forcing communication. You can easily work together by picking up a battery to show its location on a map, by undoing a trap, kiting Jason, repairing an objective, etc. But when completing those task requires telling your buddy when Jason is after you so either you can distract or they need to aid you due to lack of adequate defense, is when it crosses the line of fairness - because you can't expect effective teamwork with someone who might not have a mic, speak your language, know how to take a hint, etc.

Again I respectfully disagree. I only play QP matches and I survive/escape about 50% of the time simply by doing the things you mention as teamwork. 

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2 hours ago, Rexfellis said:

Yeah, I'm on pins and needles to hear the results of your "controlled tests". I know what I've seen, and I trust the people who actually do tests about the game mechanics on a regular basis. But, please, conduct your tests and tell everyone what you, with your infinite wisdom discovers. I'm quite sure you are the final answer on every aspect of the game, and we all await your scientific results with baited breath.

(Blowhard douchebag with a god complex) Yeah, I said it.

 

It's funny because everything you just said actually relates to you. @Imayslaylizdaw was only asking for evidence of chain-stunning. They were telling people to please give evidence as their tests are showing that chain-stunning isn't possible. You expressed your opinion in a rude personal attack and that is when they shot back. We get it, you don't like losing arguments, but seeing as how we're going to do tests and you're not gonna do anything shows that you really don't know whether it even exists or not. Show us these supposed tests done by people who do game mechanic tests on a regular basis. Show us these results and I'll gladly say you were right. As of now, you're just sore that you can't win this losing battle by using sarcasm.

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14 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Teamwork is essential. Teamwork is not communication. The mute Vanessa who stepped in all the traps and then led Jason on a chase just made repair very easy. The Vanessa who grabs a bat and goes and seeks out Jason so she can teabag him for a minute before ragequitting as soon as he grabs her is not making repair very easy.

How often do you see that happening? You're assuming there's at least one competent person in the lobby who just so happens to not be a repairer and also a Vanessa who has thick skinned and Medic and tanks traps.

You also act like people still readily 1v1 Jason now... that hardly happens anymore.

Working together does not require communication as I explained to @A.J. Mason

Effective teamwork does.

I genuinely see people trying now. Sure a lot of them are just stupid or new, but they all try nonetheless. They often die however because they are all usually missing something key now - communication. 

The only people who ever escape when I'm playing QP Is my team of counselors who dedicate themselves to lending a hand in QP.

@A.J. Mason

You lone wolf all the time? I get out most of the time unless it's a great Jason, but that's because I have teamwork and communication.

If I don't, I usually escape by myself, survive the night, or die last. So I live 75% of the time with teamwork, 50% without - simply because I'm a skilled player. If I wasn't Vanessa and experienced, I wouldn't.

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They don't necessarily need to be a Vanessa. I'd say that Vanessa, Buggzy, Tiffany and Chad are all good for it. Also, almost everyone runs Medic and if you're playing a character built for kiting it's just common sense to consider thick skinned if you have it. But with medic you don't even need it most of the time.

People still readily 1vs1 Jason, they just get their ass kicked. Kids are going to be kids.

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1 minute ago, stoney said:

 

@A.J. Mason

You lone wolf all the time? I get out most of the time unless it's a great Jason, but that's because I have teamwork and communication.

If I don't, I usually escape by myself, survive the night, or die last. So I live 75% of the time with teamwork, 50% without - simply because I'm a skilled player. If I wasn't Vanessa and experienced, I wouldn't.

Yes I do lone wolf all the time. I know my escape rate would be higher if I communicated or played in a group. I enjoy the chaos of QP and not knowing what im getting into with each lobby I join. Feels more like a real horror movie to me that way. If others are trying to work together I follow. If not I do as much as I can on my own. 

Sounds like you survive more often than not. Why do you want to see that made easier for you? Genuine question. Not being snarky.

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