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Aaron

Is swing cancelling removed?

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Awwww. Another one of your favourite glitches has gone? Learn to play properly. 

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29 minutes ago, RAGEVIRUS said:

Awwww. Another one of your favourite glitches has gone? Learn to play properly. 

swing canceling is so I can whiff bait or not waste durability on a weapon if multiple people are going for stun/grab save

does this sound like an exploit?

is it so unrealistic to stop your own attack?

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Been playing since launch and didn't know this was even a thing. Mostly because people used to be afraid of Jason and ran from him instead of attacking.

Glad it's gone. Sounds stupid and cheap. 

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I could tell swing cancelling was never intended, but I can't help but think it's only fair to allow counselors to bait Jason just like he can bait counselors into whiffing.  For him it's easier because counselor swings are shorter than his and Jason's walk speed is faster than theirs.  All he needs to do is a quick 180.  I enjoy doing it, but I hate when it's done to me lol.  As Jason, the few players I encountered who were able to cancel swing as counselors didn't bother me at all- it let me know I'm dealing with someone experienced and I had to work harder to kill them.  I enjoyed the challenge.

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On 12/21/2017 at 2:22 PM, Aaron said:

swing canceling is so I can whiff bait or not waste durability on a weapon if multiple people are going for stun/grab save

does this sound like an exploit?

is it so unrealistic to stop your own attack?

Is 'whiff baiting' listed as a mechanic in the 'how to play' guide? I don't see it anywhere. These little 'tricks' players keep finding are probably not an intended part of gameplay, so don't be surprised if patches come out that fix them. 

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1 hour ago, Kodiak said:

Is 'whiff baiting' listed as a mechanic in the 'how to play' guide? I don't see it anywhere. These little 'tricks' players keep finding are probably not an intended part of gameplay, so don't be surprised if patches come out that fix them. 

Whiff baiting is not a mechanic, it is as the name implies. Baiting Jason and making him whiff his attack, then punishing him during his recovery frames. A strategy that relies on spacing and conditioning. Easy example - I will jog in front of Jason, then turn around to the edge of his grab range and when he inevitably misses, I will hit him. As start-up frames on Jason's attacks are always faster than counselors, he will always win in a direct exchange of attacks. Therefore you need to put him in a vulnerable state first and attack during that window of opportunity.

The terminology and tactics like these come from fighting games, but it's nothing complex or unintended. There is nothing to fix with any patch. The in-game how to play guide is also extraordinarily basic and teaches players very little. The lack of easily accessible knowledge is the reason why there is such a great divide in skill between new players and everyone else.

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2 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Whiff baiting is not a mechanic, it is as the name implies. Baiting Jason and making him whiff his attack, then punishing him during his recovery frames. It relies on spacing and conditioning. Easy example - I will jog in front of Jason, then turn around to the edge of his grab range and when he inevitably misses, I will hit him. As start-up frames on Jason's attacks are always faster than counselors, he will always win in a direct exchange of attacks. Therefore you need to put him in a vulnerable state first and attack during that window of opportunity.

The terminology and tactics like these come from fighting games, but it's nothing complex or unintended. There is nothing to fix with any patch. The in-game how to play guide is also extraordinarily basic and teaches players very little. The lack of easy accessible knowledge is the reason why there is such a great divide in skill between new players and everyone else.

That's not the same as swing cancelling. At all.

Point is, once started, there's no intended mechanic to stop a swing. People found an exploit to learn how to stop mid-swing. It was removed.

That's it.

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8 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

That's not the same as swing cancelling. At all.

Point is, once started, there's no intended mechanic to stop a swing. People found an exploit to learn how to stop mid-swing. It was removed.

That's it.

I know it's not. Swing cancelling is a form a whiff bait but it is not the only one. I was directly replying to Kodiak's comment on it which I quoted.

Cancelling a swing is also not an exploit. It is animation cancelling which is a staple of fighting in games. Removing abilities like these simply removes depth to combat, and dumbs down the gameplay.

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Oh my mistake, I thought swing cancelling was 'whiff baiting' (whoever coined that term picked something that sounds really silly lol)

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17 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

I know it's not. Swing cancelling is a form a whiff bait but it is not the only one. I was directly replying to Kodiak's comment on it which I quoted.

Cancelling a swing is also not an exploit. It is animation cancelling which is a staple of fighting in games. Removing abilities like these simply removes depth to combat, and dumbs down the gameplay.

Perhaps, but you shouldn't be able to cancel anything but the first few frames of an attack. It's not realistic to be able to cancel halfway into a swing when you're at the full power of the swing. And counselors shouldn't be the ones controlling the fight, that should be Jason.

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16 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Perhaps, but you shouldn't be able to cancel anything but the first few frames of an attack. It's not realistic to be able to cancel halfway into a swing when you're at the full power of the swing. And counselors shouldn't be the ones controlling the fight, that should be Jason.

Jason could do the exact same thing as counterplay eg. Purposely whiff a grab and cancel recovery window with throwing knife. Realistic or not, it adds depth to combat, much more than a binary "hit or miss" system. The window in which you can cancel an attack is debatable, but it should be something that is possible nonetheless.

In terms of combat, Jason can do just about everything counselors can (even the Sliding exploit). That's what people don't realise. So it's simply a matter of one player using a tactic the other doesn't know, and comes down to knowledge and skill. It's the responsibility of every player to learn as much as they can about the game, in order to improve their success rate. Just because it's not in the in-game guide, for example, doesn't mean it's not legitimate.

Jason doesn't have a problem with 1v1 (other than hit detection which is a separate issue). It's group combat he has a problem with and lacks the tools for.

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3 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Jason could do the exact same thing as counterplay eg. Purposely whiff a grab and cancel recovery window with throwing knife. Realistic or not, it adds depth to combat, much more than a binary "hit or miss" system. The window in which you can cancel an attack is debatable, but it should be something that is possible nonetheless.

Jason and the counselors shouldn't be on the same playing field. It's 7vs1.

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1 minute ago, MichaelMemers said:

Jason and the counselors shouldn't be on the same playing field. It's 7vs1.

I will repeat this again: Jason doesn't have a problem with 1v1 (other than hit detection which is a separate issue). It's group combat he has a problem with and lacks the tools for. Literally the 7v1 you are speaking of.

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Just now, Tommy86 said:

I will repeat this again: Jason doesn't have a problem with 1v1 (other than hit detection which is a separate issue). It's group combat he has a problem with and lacks the tools for. Literally the 7v1 you are speaking of.

With the ability to cancel attack animations counselors were able to attack and cancel with zero consequence, allowing them to stall Jason for absurd amounts of time 1vs1. Now they actually have to commit to their attacks so Jason can actually punish.

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5 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

With the ability to cancel attack animations counselors were able to attack and cancel with zero consequence, allowing them to stall Jason for absurd amounts of time 1vs1. Now they actually have to commit to their attacks so Jason can actually punish.

Again, counterplay. Jason could cancel his recovery frames, exactly to counter this tactic. The counselor would think they performed a whiff bait, and then take a throwing knife in the face when Jason cancelled it instead. Jason has always had the advantage in 1v1, and continues to. Just comes down to a matter of skill.

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1 minute ago, Tommy86 said:

Again, counterplay. Jason could cancel his recovery frames, exactly to counter this tactic. The counselor would think they performed a whiff bait, and then take a throwing knife in the face when Jason cancelled it instead. Jason has always had the advantage in 1v1, and continues to.  

Why do you assume they're going for a whiff bait? It was a frequent tactic to throw out attacks and cancel them as Jason was jogging just behind you. The idea is to waste his time and keep him constantly afraid that you're going to pull a lightning fast switch to combat stance and attack out of your ass.

Also, there's only one map in the game, Packanack Small, since that's the one hosts choose. And there are like 5 or 6 knives on the entire map.

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21 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Why do you assume they're going for a whiff bait? It was a frequent tactic to throw out attacks and cancel them as Jason was jogging just behind you. The idea is to waste his time and keep him constantly afraid that you're going to pull a lightning fast switch to combat stance and attack out of your ass.

Just because that's what I thought we were talking about. What you're talking about is more a matter of counselor mobility advantage and spacing. You can do the same thing without any swing cancel, just keep Jason behind you at a distance where he is always just outside grab or swing range, and won't be tempted to use a Shift. You can keep him wary of an attack just the same by quickly entering combat stance, then back to jogging, and nothing else. Or 360 degree turns. It's simply a mind game.

 

21 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Also, there's only one map in the game, Packanack Small, since that's the one hosts choose. And there are like 5 or 6 knives on the entire map.

Searching for throwing thrives, and even picking them up in some cases (due to glitches), can pose a problem. That's something I've said before. IMO it would help Jason a great deal to have a small amount of auto-replenishable throwing knives, especially for group combat. The way it currently is, if counselor activity is limited to the same areas where throwing knives have already been picked up, there is really nothing you can do but Morph away and try to find some. I already leave the 2 throwing knives in the shack just as emergency knives, but it's really not enough.

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2 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

That makes no sense at all. Just take them with you and save them...

I find if I have them, I'm tempted to use them early on. And it's an easy location to go to and immediately get 2 more if I need to. Might not make sense but that's what works for me.

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3 hours ago, Kodiak said:

Is 'whiff baiting' listed as a mechanic in the 'how to play' guide? I don't see it anywhere. These little 'tricks' players keep finding are probably not an intended part of gameplay, so don't be surprised if patches come out that fix them. 

 

lols.. you won't win any games following that

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3 hours ago, Aaron said:

lols.. you won't win any games following that

Speak for yourself. I've always done just fine and surpassed 103 by playing fair. Good players don't need to do stupid shit like 'sliding' or 'car surfing' to have a good time.

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51 minutes ago, Kodiak said:

Speak for yourself. I've always done just fine and surpassed 103 by playing fair. Good players don't need to do stupid shit like 'sliding' or 'car surfing' to have a good time.

Well whiff baiting is just what they call it when you run at Jason, bait him into grabbing or attacking, and dodge and counter. It's not an exploit or even a mechanic.

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