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CPLhicks31

Okay, lets talk about "fixing" Jason

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Here’s how I would do if. I would fix Jason’s grab and take away his traps. I would make it where one hit and the counselor goes down. Because there is no way it should take him 3,4, 5 hits to kill a counselor. Jason then has to pick them up and execute them. No more slash kills. I would also take away counselor perks. And even maps. The way I see it, it doesn’t feel scary enough to be a counselor. 

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8 minutes ago, MattGarcia said:

Here’s how I would do if. I would fix Jason’s grab and take away his traps. I would make it where one hit and the counselor goes down. Because there is no way it should take him 3,4, 5 hits to kill a counselor. Jason then has to pick them up and execute them. No more slash kills. I would also take away counselor perks. And even maps. The way I see it, it doesn’t feel scary enough to be a counselor. 

I am at least neutral towards most of these ideas and positive towards some, but taking away perks and maps completely is a pretty ridoculous statement that would kill the game even more than they already have (it would make matches less unique, less custom, and alienate all but hardcore players). I think the devs have catered too much to the casuals, but we don't want to alienate any players either.

 

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On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 3:30 PM, CPLhicks31 said:

 

 Counsellors should see the icons of dead bodies,

I think if you saw where the body was, the scare when you discover a body isn't scary, since you would know when its coming up.

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27 minutes ago, jenndar111 said:

I think if you saw where the body was, the scare when you discover a body isn't scary, since you would know when its coming up.

So knowingly forcing yourself to search the corpse of your brutally murdered friend would not be scary? I get that it might not be startling, but many people would still say things like "Oh no. No." (This is one of Jenny's responses to seeing a body). I see what your saying, I just don't think it's much of a stretch to still have counsellors react loudly to looting a hacked up corpse. It's not exactly their 85 year old grandfather lying in bed.

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11 hours ago, CPLhicks31 said:

I am at least neutral towards most of these ideas and positive towards some, but taking away perks and maps completely is a pretty ridoculous statement that would kill the game even more than they already have (it would make matches less unique, less custom, and alienate all but hardcore players). I think the devs have catered too much to the casuals, but we don't want to alienate any players either.

 

Okay. Fair enough. You’re probably right about my idea of no maps no perks. It just doesn’t feel scary enough to be a counselor. Jason doesn’t feel like an unstoppable killer.

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I just wrote a post relating to this topic in This thread if anyone's interested, but basically, I think people need to stop focusing so much on balance issues and focus more on the constant character control bugs that affect Jason. Everything from hit detection, to combat, to basic interaction is riddled with bugs (some quite serious) that impact his gameplay in a big way, and in turn affect the balance of the game since Jason's actions against the counselors are prone to error. 

It is most evident against a proficient team, when timing and execution are often critical in overcoming counselors. But not being able to reliably depend on the game executing whatever it is you're trying to do is certainly a disadvantage. Not that counselors aren't also affected by some of the game's issues, but they are generally a more stable experience than Jason IMO. 

I think his character control needs to be top priority for fixing, much higher priority than any balance adjustments. Once that's fixed we will have a better picture of what balance adjustments are necessary, instead of buffing Jason to compensate for the bugs and poorly designed mechanics currently affecting his gameplay. In that regard, he's only been getting worse since release.

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3 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

I just wrote a post relating to this topic in This thread if anyone's interested, but basically, I think people need to stop focusing so much on balance issues and focus more on the constant character control bugs that affect Jason. Everything from hit detection, to combat, to basic interaction is riddled with bugs (some quite serious) that impact his gameplay in a big way, and in turn affect the balance of the game since Jason's actions against the counselors are prone to error. 

It is most evident against a proficient team, when timing and execution are often critical in overcoming counselors. But not being able to reliably depend on the game executing whatever it is you're trying to do is certainly a disadvantage. Not that counselors aren't also affected by some of the game's issues, but they are generally a more stable experience than Jason IMO. 

I think his character control needs to be top priority for fixing, much higher priority than any balance adjustments. Once that's fixed we will have a better picture of what balance adjustments are necessary, instead of buffing Jason to compensate for the bugs and poorly designed mechanics currently affecting his gameplay. In that regard, he's only been getting worse since release.

Agreed fully, the bugs make it difficult to actually adapt to the new changes because not only are you trying to learn how best to counter them, but you're fighting with the bugs too.

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''- Leave his grab distance as is, but widen the cone! This way he can't elastic arm anyone like before, but he does not have to be facing a counsellor perfectly to grab them. They could be mostly beside him, and he could get them as long as they are close enough. ''

completely disagree, to catch someone you must be at least 10 cm away (something unrealistic) And if you don't stand up and try to throw a grip like Jason and you'll see how far your arm goes.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Woozyer said:

''- Leave his grab distance as is, but widen the cone! This way he can't elastic arm anyone like before, but he does not have to be facing a counsellor perfectly to grab them. They could be mostly beside him, and he could get them as long as they are close enough. ''

completely disagree, to catch someone you must be at least 10 cm away (something unrealistic) And if you don't stand up and try to throw a grip like Jason and you'll see how far your arm goes.

 

 

I dont understand what you mean. I did not say grab someone totally beside you (the human arm does not work that way); i said "he should not have to be facing a counsellor perfectly to grab them." The way it is now the counsellor needs to be centered in front of you which is unrealistic. If they are off slightly to the side you could easily still grab someone in real life. I mean counsellors should not need to be centered with your face to get them. I am not calling for massive changes, only widening it by 10 - 20 % on either side.

Np if you disagree, but I think we just had a missunderstanding here.

Edit: I can see how the end of my post was confusing though because I said they could be "mostly beside him" but also "needed to be close enough." Basically i just think his grab should be realistic. It used to be unrealistically long by a lot, but now it is unrealistically narrow by a little bit.

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I wanted to test out a few things last night so I played three entire matches(private matches with good teamwork) laying down on my couch, headset on the table(game volume plays through it, so no game sound) while playing music and not only did I survive all three rounds. I made a fool of one player playing Jason in one round while not even trying and two against good Jason players where I pretty much did nothing but jog around 95% of the round and sadly they couldn't even catch me. :(

It saddens me to see the state the game is in currently, it was advertised that Jason is suppose to be OP and will always be OP and that is not the case with this current build. It should be hard to survive/escape against Jason and damn near impossible against a good Jason player.

Where is the challenge in surviving/escaping anymore? I'll be honest! I've not ever seen Jason be overpowered to the point that I personally would like him to be with this game but before this latest update the game was probably at it's best and most fun stage. You still had to make an effort/work together to survive which was fun. Now! It seems like the police get called within the first five minutes almost every match and cars are getting repaired and started pretty much within the same time frame. -_-

Something needs to be done to make him a force again and hopefully that happens sooner rather than later. I personally want his grab wider and less clumsy, hit detection for his weapon fixed and trap stacking back. I was never a fan of stacking traps, learnt to live with it but now it's clear that it is needed to defend objectives and make it a challenge. IF you don't bring it back pocket knives need to be removed totally in my opinion, except for Tommy Jarvis when he spawns in because without trap stacking there is really no need to use them on traps anymore, simply tank trap and you still have the knife if Jason gets lucky and grabs you. 

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7 hours ago, j03audette said:

I wanted to test out a few things last night so I played three entire matches(private matches with good teamwork) laying down on my couch, headset on the table(game volume plays through it, so no game sound) while playing music and not only did I survive all three rounds. I made a fool of one player playing Jason in one round while not even trying and two against good Jason players where I pretty much did nothing but jog around 95% of the round and sadly they couldn't even catch me. :(

It saddens me to see the state the game is in currently, it was advertised that Jason is suppose to be OP and will always be OP and that is not the case with this current build. It should be hard to survive/escape against Jason and damn near impossible against a good Jason player.

Where is the challenge in surviving/escaping anymore? I'll be honest! I've not ever seen Jason be overpowered to the point that I personally would like him to be with this game but before this latest update the game was probably at it's best and most fun stage. You still had to make an effort/work together to survive which was fun. Now! It seems like the police get called within the first five minutes almost every match and cars are getting repaired and started pretty much within the same time frame. -_-

Something needs to be done to make him a force again and hopefully that happens sooner rather than later. I personally want his grab wider and less clumsy, hit detection for his weapon fixed and trap stacking back. I was never a fan of stacking traps, leant to live with it but now it's clear that it is needed to defend objectives and make it a challenge. IF you don't bring it back pocket knives need to be removed totally in my opinion, except for Tommy Jarvis when he spawns in because without trap stacking there is really no need to use them on traps anymore, simply tank trap and you still have the knife if Jason gets lucky and grabs you. 

I agree with this post 100%, especially the part I boldfaced.

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Disclaimer: I’m a terrible Jason. Like, TERRIBLE. But I still like that the grab distance has been reduced because it feels more realistic (although I agree it should be widened). 

The one big change I would like to see is to the car mechanics. Too often someone gets a car going and then I spend ages chasing them through the woods. They should totally be able to do so but I think it should come at a substantial cost to speed or control. Its pretty immersion breaking in my opinion....

Also maybe there some way that Jason could throw a knife at the driver with a chance to stop it or possibly lay down “car traps” (maybe at the cost of 2/3 regular traps) to slow it down or make it crash?

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The only things i can really think of is a better blocking without having to go into combat stance. It's way too clunky, feels non existent, especially if facing large groups all armed.it can be a brutally punishing situation.

I also feel the knife throwing aim is a bit ropey, not very smooth.

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I think that one thing they could do to help fix Jason, is add some kind of button sequence mini game to the pocket knives because at this point it's pretty much a get-out-of-jail-free card,  

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Here are a few balance adjustments in my opinion.

1.  Furniture needs to be destructible during rage.  If he can bush through a wall, he should be able to scoot a chair out of the way.

2.  Add a mini-game to disarming traps.  Don't bring back stacking, but at least make the presence of the trap mean something.  We can exchange pocketknives, and this would encourage better use of traps by Jason and better coordination between counselors.

3.  Making driving risky.  If Jason slam stops a car at full speed, that should be felt by the counselors.  They should take damage from that in the same way they take damage from falling from high places.  

4.  Counselor toss - Jason should have the option of throwing counselors into other counselors.  I realize this would be a huge undertaking, but if a group of counselors gang up on Jason, they should be able to get in each other's way, and Jason should be able to use their numbers against them with good strategy, and bowling for counselors just sounds like a lot of fun to me.

 

 

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On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 7:28 PM, jenndar111 said:

I think if you saw where the body was, the scare when you discover a body isn't scary, since you would know when its coming up.

Actually I strongly disagree.   People in medical school starting to do inspections of the bodies, or people who in police work understand they are going to a fatal car crash has little effect on visceral reaction they get to actually seeing it. 

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On 11/8/2017 at 2:16 PM, va_ghost said:

Actually I strongly disagree.   People in medical school starting to do inspections of the bodies, or people who in police work understand they are going to a fatal car crash has little effect on visceral reaction they get to actually seeing it. 

Sorry I'm late to reply, but are you saying they had some secret medical training or police training?

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Nothing is wrong with Jason other then his stun resistance. Its the counselors they need to work on. I am level 101 and playing Jason is a breeze. Its easy, you just have to use skill and think about what your going to do next. I know newer players have a hard time because of higher level counselors beating them to rage quit. The game is very unbalanced right now...

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On 11/7/2017 at 4:29 PM, j03audette said:

Where is the challenge in surviving/escaping anymore? I'll be honest! I've not ever seen Jason be overpowered to the point that I personally would like him to be with this game but before this latest update the game was probably at it's best and most fun stage. You still had to make an effort/work together to survive which was fun. Now! It seems like the police get called within the first five minutes almost every match and cars are getting repaired and started pretty much within the same time frame. -_-

I screw around and die often in private with friends, but that's among people like you and I'm having fun and don't really care. It's not scary like it used to be, we used to dread that music and you could tell by our voices. Now it's like "Oh, there's Jason. You got this? I'm gonna go over to Blair's and see what they're up to..." My biggest gripes are the hit and grab detection, absolutely terrible at times. Even what I thought was a perfect grab was thwarted, He had me and I knew it so I turn to face him in combat stance. Jason wades in and swings, I stand still and whoops! Guess he was to close and missed me? Really? What happened to the monster we were so scared of? Yeah we got better, but when he misses grabs and weapon attacks that by all rights should hit thats not fun for me as a counselor. Much less the poor sap in the goalie mask...

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On 3/11/2017 at 9:30 PM, CPLhicks31 said:

 So lets talk about improving him, but lets keep it reasonable.

This is not going to happen, it's pretty clear the Dev are happy with Jason right now, he has no issue, there are no bugs, no hit detection problem and the other stuff simply don't exist for them

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Oh come on. Who ever says that as Jason they get an easy breezy clean slate everytime is just delusional (not including bad counselors, counselors fuckin around, not doing shit,  casual fun,.... you know what I mean).

I usually play with a good group and on many occasions we could have , for example, escaped to the cops. But instead we try to fix cars, kill Jason or just casually mess around. Basically anything other than running to the cops, because honestly, its a bit boring. Then when we do stupid things, Jason kills us and on to the next game.

Yes, sometimes a good Jason does a clen sweep, but usually it's not only because your a skilled gitgud Jason. Same with me. Sometimes I get everyone because I'm ok as Jason, sometimes I mess up, sometimes counselors are either unlucky or bad.. The circumstanses change.

Balancing Jason should be a top priority. Not only does it help build a healthy playerbase, it makes Jason fun again. "I wanna be Jason" should be the thing you hope for while waiting in lobbies. The "counselor experience" just is not that great.

We could start it by taking babysteps. Reduce counselor stamina regen a bit. Give Jason a wider melee (to all sides, including below) with a chance to hit multiple counselors at once. Remove one pocketknife /map. Jason should not be stunned by one hit with every person regadless of used weapon.. Instakill if you get to a trap before the counselor braks free. Instkill for teabaggers, Allow Jason to hit counselors while crouching/any animation when in proximity.

Litlle things.

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1 hour ago, Blinckx said:

This is not going to happen, it's pretty clear the Dev are happy with Jason right now, he has no issue, there are no bugs, no hit detection problem and the other stuff simply don't exist for them

They have not said it isn't going to happen. They've just said it won't make this patch.

Edit: I think an adjustment to hit detection and grab radius to cover current gaps without reverting back to using The Force would help Jason out. The idea of tossing one counselor into others fascinates me, but would likely be too complex to build into the game.

Edited by NthnButAGoodTime

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I'd like to believe I'm a decent Jason, although the private group I played in recently absolutely schooled me (0/7 and somehow or another mother said my job was done and she was pleased).

I've somewhat adapted to the grab, but still not a fan of the fact that you can essentially rub shoulders with Jason and somehow be out of grab range. In my honest opinion the first thing that needs to be addressed for Jason, hit detection.

At some point you can adapt to a grab change. How can you adapt to your weapon passing through a counselor when they're out of stamina or limping and you're right behind them or adapt to your weapon passing right over their heads if they're crouching and directly in front of you?

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4 minutes ago, hu_soldier13 said:

I'd like to believe I'm a decent Jason, although the private group I played in recently absolutely schooled me (0/7 and somehow or another mother said my job was done and she was pleased).

I've somewhat adapted to the grab, but still not a fan of the fact that you can essentially rub shoulders with Jason and somehow be out of grab range. In my honest opinion the first thing that needs to be addressed for Jason, hit detection.

At some point you can adapt to a grab change. How can you adapt to your weapon passing through a counselor when they're out of stamina or limping and you're right behind them or adapt to your weapon passing right over their heads if they're crouching and directly in front of you?

100% agree...but I have never killed no one playing as Jason, I guess it depends on how you play. Its always been between 5-8 kills. But yea, the hit detection is trash in this game. I get hit more with melee weapons then I slash the counselor with combat stance.

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