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VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow

Forced Perspective and Jason's Grab

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I believe a lot of the complaints about Jason's grab come from something called "forced perspective." It's when the distance between two objects LOOKS small, but is actually much larger. An example is the Lord of the Rings movies. In one of the first scenes, Gandalf and Frodo are sitting on a carriage together. It looks like they are side-by-side, but in reality:

0f9ddab3-5277-42e7-ac88-4d929e922722_lor

Frodo is sitting a good 4-5 feet behind Gandalf. I think this is why a lot of Jason players are complaining about the new grab distance. From the default camera angle at Jason's perspective, it LOOKS like they are close enough because Jason is closer to the camera than the counselors are. Take a look at this screenshot:

710LSpw.png

Oh no! Jason's right on top of him! That Buggzy is surely done for! Buggzy can smell Jason's nasty breath they are so close!

Lzdlcax.png

Oh wait, he's not anywhere near him. (Someone once said they could grab someone from that range in real life. Dude, I'd like to see you grab someone from this distance without moving from the spot.)

So yeah, the old grab distance was calibrated to Jason's perspective, a forced perspective. From Jason's default point of view he looks quite close but he's not anywhere near the guy once he turns the camera.

People have been missing some very close grabs, so there is some work to be done. They could revert the WIDTH of the cone size back to what it was, invert it, but keep the length as it is right now because there's no justifiable reason to make Jason't grab this long ever again. It breaks all bounds of logic and fairness. It is both unrealistic and unfair to be this former length because it is deceptive. It's deceptive because it looks like you as a counselor should be safe, and by all right you should be, but you weren't because the grab wasn't originally calibrated to a counselor's point of view.

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2 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I believe a lot of the complaints about Jason's grab come from something called "forced perspective." It's when the distance between two objects LOOKS small, but is actually much larger. An example is the Lord of the Rings movies. In one of the first scenes, Gandalf and Frodo are sitting on a carriage together. It looks like they are side-by-side, but in reality:

0f9ddab3-5277-42e7-ac88-4d929e922722_lor

Frodo is sitting a good 4-5 feet behind Gandalf. I think this is why a lot of Jason players are complaining about the new grab distance. From the default camera angle at Jason's perspective, it LOOKS like they are close enough because Jason is closer to the camera than the counselors are. Take a look at this screenshot:

710LSpw.png

Oh no! Jason's right on top of him! That Buggzy is surely done for! Buggzy can smell Jason's nasty breath they are so close!

Lzdlcax.png

Oh wait, he's not anywhere near him. (Someone once said they could grab someone from that range in real life. Dude, I'd like to see you grab someone from this distance without moving from the spot.)

So yeah, the old grab distance was calibrated to Jason's perspective, a forced perspective. From Jason's default point of view he looks quite close but he's not anywhere near the guy once he turns the camera.

People have been missing some very close grabs, so there is some work to be done. They could revert the WIDTH of the cone size back to what it was, invert it, but keep the length as it is right now because there's no justifiable reason to make Jason't grab this long ever again. It breaks all bounds of logic and fairness. It is both unrealistic and unfair to be this former length because it is deceptive. It's deceptive because it looks like you as a counselor should be safe, and by all right you should be, but you weren't because the grab wasn't originally calibrated to counselor's points of view.

You’re closing argument is spot on but I do think some tweaking needs to be done. I have had scenarios where I am littering on top of the counselor but the grab doesn’t initiate. And the pictures referencing lord of the rings are utilizing an optical illusion to manipulate the scene for the perceived effect. I do think that “may” be part of the problem but I know with absolute certainty that it’s not the entire fault in the system. 

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1 minute ago, MyNameisJason said:

You’re closing argument is spot on but I do think some tweaking needs to be done. I have had scenarios where I am littering on top of the counselor but the grab doesn’t initiate. And the pictures referencing lord of the rings are utilizing an optical illusion to manipulate the scene for the perceived effect. I do think that “may” be part of the problem but I know with absolute certainty that it’s not the entire fault in the system. 

I think it is also partly because the nerfed grab is new and people haven't gotten used to it yet. They keep trying to grab at long range like before when they should prioritize melee until they're crippled.

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4 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I think it is also partly because the nerfed grab is new and people haven't gotten used to it yet. They keep trying to grab at long range like before when they should prioritize melee until they're crippled.

one malee sucks so that rarely works as for the range @HuDawg brought this up if it was a full lunge animation instead of a swat one the original range makes sense 

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I've played as Jason in other games and having good reach and quick grabs is usually his thing. Maybe GunMedia can redesign his grab animation a bit to match the range if they wanted to. (just an idea)

 

 

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18 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I think it is also partly because the nerfed grab is new and people haven't gotten used to it yet. They keep trying to grab at long range like before when they should prioritize melee until they're crippled.

True, I am guilty of attempting grabs at typical distances because it’s what I’m ised to until I find the new sweet spot. But there are times as I’ve said before that you can be on top of a counselor, even a crippled one and the grab doesn’t connect. You saw the melee clip from my other thread sometimes even melee is consecutively inoperative. If timing is of the essence and med sprays and/or counselor’s coming to the rescue factor in than that one target who you gimped can get back on their feet and all is for not. 

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32 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I believe a lot of the complaints about Jason's grab come from something called "forced perspective." It's when the distance between two objects LOOKS small, but is actually much larger. An example is the Lord of the Rings movies. In one of the first scenes, Gandalf and Frodo are sitting on a carriage together. It looks like they are side-by-side, but in reality:

0f9ddab3-5277-42e7-ac88-4d929e922722_lor

Frodo is sitting a good 4-5 feet behind Gandalf. I think this is why a lot of Jason players are complaining about the new grab distance. From the default camera angle at Jason's perspective, it LOOKS like they are close enough because Jason is closer to the camera than the counselors are. Take a look at this screenshot:

710LSpw.png

Oh no! Jason's right on top of him! That Buggzy is surely done for! Buggzy can smell Jason's nasty breath they are so close!

Lzdlcax.png

Oh wait, he's not anywhere near him. (Someone once said they could grab someone from that range in real life. Dude, I'd like to see you grab someone from this distance without moving from the spot.)

So yeah, the old grab distance was calibrated to Jason's perspective, a forced perspective. From Jason's default point of view he looks quite close but he's not anywhere near the guy once he turns the camera.

People have been missing some very close grabs, so there is some work to be done. They could revert the WIDTH of the cone size back to what it was, invert it, but keep the length as it is right now because there's no justifiable reason to make Jason't grab this long ever again. It breaks all bounds of logic and fairness. It is both unrealistic and unfair to be this former length because it is deceptive. It's deceptive because it looks like you as a counselor should be safe, and by all right you should be, but you weren't because the grab wasn't originally calibrated to counselor's points of view.

I guess you fail to mention where the clip skips, and Bugsy goes from where he was at rug's length away to about maybe half that as he is being grabbed. sure, the video editor did a decent job, but it is still noticeable. Bugsy skips from far rug to mid rug into grab. So yeah. this video is a nice attempt at people changing something that was never this to begin with.

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20 minutes ago, dmack621 said:

I guess you fail to mention where the clip skips, and Bugsy goes from where he was at rug's length away to about maybe half that as he is being grabbed. sure, the video editor did a decent job, but it is still noticeable. Bugsy skips from far rug to mid rug into grab. So yeah. this video is a nice attempt at people changing something that was never this to begin with.

So you think he's lying? You think he made it up? Mad-Eye Yokai made a video showing the same thing. The reason Buggzy "skips" to the middle of the carpet is because the grab is magnetic.

 

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11 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

So you think he's lying? You think he made it up? Mad-Eye Yokai made a video showing the same thing. The reason Buggzy "skips" to the middle of the carpet is because the grab is magnetic.

 

Every time I see that video I think of how nuts it is. But it always feels different from Jason POV and from the counselor’s POV. Same thing with new grab feels different from each but a noticeable difference. 

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I won’t lie that I’m not thrilled with the new grab mechanic but I’m weaning into it. I’ve gotten more used to where it is responsive; however, I still have issue with the numerous situations where I clearly had the grab but it did not initiate. Same as the melee attack which feels even worse in comparison. As I’m using it more as a result of the grab change. 

I haven’t noticed the combat stance issues that others have mentioned because I don’t utilize it. If they could rework combat stance so that it was more viable I think I would see a lot more Jason’s use it including myself. Sorry if I went off topic. 

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Did someone actually bring up forced perspective because they don't understand hitboxes? The old grab had a hitbox that extended well past his visual grab range and it was nothing else.

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No Vorhees used forced perspective as an example to explain how some players might have misinterpreted their distance to target for the grab. 

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The easiest way to judge distance to a grab is to see if the grab indicator lights up. Watch any grab distance video and you can see the hand light up when they are within range.

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10 hours ago, Jawbone said:

The easiest way to judge distance to a grab is to see if the grab indicator lights up. Watch any grab distance video and you can see the hand light up when they are within range.

To be honest I never knew there was a grab indicator lol. Maybe they should make the icon bigger so people will know exactly when it's time to grab.

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How did I miss this?

I don't know if I said it somewhere on the forum or if I said it to myself in the mirror, but this is 150% the reason for the long grab and why now everyone is having trouble grabbing. It was an assist based on the unnatural 2 dimensional 3D perspective. 

This has always been a problem for me with games like this. Maybe this is why I'm not that bothered by the new grab because I've been wrestling with this concept since Mario 64. What I like to do as Jason is tilt the camera to an overhead view when I'm setting traps and doing slow chases so I know for sure how far I am.

But I don't need to say it. Jolly explained it all. This reply was more of an "Amen!" than anything.

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On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 0:21 PM, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

To be honest I never knew there was a grab indicator lol. Maybe they should make the icon bigger so people will know exactly when it's time to grab.

Wait, there is a grab indicator?  Never, ever seen it.  That or too busy looking at main portion of screen and no some outlier on edge of screen. 

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1 hour ago, va_ghost said:

Wait, there is a grab indicator?  Never, ever seen it.  That or too busy looking at main portion of screen and no some outlier on edge of screen. 

It's the hand right next to the abilities panel in the bottom right.

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