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Dedicated Servers Update and Why Host Migration Won't Happen

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From the start I asked when legal action was the appropriate course of action. Then I listed examples of games and publishers that have suffered lawsuits for similar instances. You have absolutely zero familiarity with legal precedence and yet have consistently claimed my arguments have no merit despite giving zero evidence to the contrary. Legal recourse is the absolute last method I would wish to deploy in fixing this problem, but it is absolutely still a course of action. If it comes to not, then so be it but I'm willing to wager Gun Media would be willing to do just about anything to avoid another failure. They've published 5 games total, most you've never heard of, one that no longer exists DUE TO A LAWSUIT, and now one that has been torn apart by any gaming news outlet you look at.

For the sake of creating a dialogue in which we can come together as a community and demand answers, I'm more than happy to drop the lawsuit discussion however.

In closing, imagine if you will a restaurant. You stand outside watching diners (PC Players) enjoy a meal that looks exceptional - You're a creep for staring but we will ignore that. Now, imagine you go inside and order the same meal as another patron, only your plate has shit smeared on it. As far as you - the general consumer know, you ordered exactly the same thing as these other patrons, yet there is shit on your plate. You see it. You smell it. It's a tangible problem. These other diners have no reason to complain as their meal is immaculate, and despite having a perfectly valid reason to complain, you wait a while to see if a waiter will come by to fix this problem. He/she does not. Then, more customers enter and are seated in your section and receive the same meal as you - shit and all. So you look at each other and say "seriously?" You voice your concerns to management who say trust in us that we need time to address this problem. You give them the time they said they needed and more. Nothing gets done. Management then refuses to even acknowledge your complaints and instead goes completely silent. No one would be ok with this, even if the restaurant was a mom and pop spot with a passion for cooking. 

 

 

My comments calling for a cease fire on infighting are just as applicable to @RustledJimmy as they were to anyone else in this forum who has lashed out at a fellow fan. He's not helping either. I however, would love to see this matter resolved and would love to see the fan base come together and demand they "Make it so"

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Welcome to the internet. I've similarly been lashed at, ignored it, and continued sharing my thoughts. Now, help the dialogue or don't take part. Same as everyone.

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19 minutes ago, Simianorlizard said:

Welcome to the internet. I've similarly been lashed at, ignored it, and continued sharing my thoughts. Now, help the dialogue or don't take part. Same as everyone.

See, now when you try the patronizing ultimatum, i tend to lose all respect for you.

While i get where your coming from with it, you don't get to demand anything of anyone. I'm not the company putting poop on plates.

Try asking for a more constructive dialogue, instead of trying to command others like a dog. I'll snap back when n where i decide.

Let's stay on the same side here, aye?

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You are quite confused if you think we are on the same side while you hurl insults at someone. I could care less about the reason. I said do as everyone else has done and add something constructive without responding to the pettiness. By all means, continue snapping back when and where you wish. Do know that you provide nothing of note as you do so. 

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@Simianorlizard, your restaurant analogy has no bearing on the current circumstances. The servers were available at launch for PC. They were not for consoles. The game was playable on its own on consoles. Hardly an uneatable meal smeared with excrement. 

Fellow players have made the lack of servers a problem by host-quitting. That certainly sucks, but it's not an action taken by the development team. The realization that dedicated servers would combat a widespread problem perpetrated by fellow players has prompted the move to add them for consoles. Based on their theorized timeline and the fact that we are outside of it, they did not realize the degree of work, or money, or red tape that it would take. This miscalculation is not illegal, merely inconvenient. 

An NDA is not at all a surprise, as trigger-happy forum members would be thrilled to drag down a contractor who was slower than they like, lawsuit or not. A business partner won't want the chance of their name smeared across gaming discussions so they require an NDA. That's just the player perspective, from a business perspective things like pricing and scope of work would be guarded for future negotiating with other game developers. Keep in mind, this game's business partners include the manufacturers of both consoles, entities who have the power to mandate non-negotiable NDAs.

Regarding the lawsuit you have cited, I'm afraid without any corroborating evidence, it is currently hearsay. If you would like to provide some evidence, then by all means, it is worth consideration. If the lawsuit is truly over naming rights, I can preemptively say that it is also irrelevant to the conversation.

 

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1 minute ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

@Simianorlizard, your restaurant analogy has no bearing on the current circumstances. The servers were available at launch for PC. They were not for consoles. The game was playable on its own on consoles. Hardly an uneatable meal smeared with excrement. 

Fellow players have made the lack of servers a problem by host-quitting. That certainly sucks, but it's not an action taken by the development team. The realization that dedicated servers would combat a widespread problem perpetrated by fellow players has prompted the move to add them for consoles. Based on their theorized timeline and the fact that we are outside of it, they did not realize the degree of work, or money, or red tape that it would take. This miscalculation is not illegal, merely inconvenient. 

An NDA is not at all a surprise, as trigger-happy forum members would be thrilled to drag down a contractor who was slower than they like, lawsuit or not. A business partner won't want the chance of their name smeared across gaming discussions so they require an NDA. That's just the player perspective, from a business perspective things like pricing and scope of work would be guarded for future negotiating with other game developers. Keep in mind, this game's business partners include the manufacturers of both consoles, entities who have the power to mandate non-negotiable NDAs.

Regarding the lawsuit you have cited, I'm afraid without any corroborating evidence, it is currently hearsay. If you would like to provide some evidence, then by all means, it is worth consideration. If the lawsuit is truly over naming rights, I can preemptively say that it is also irrelevant to the conversation.

 

An NDA over expendatures and those involved is one thing, a gag order on a company providing adequate customer service is a different animal.

They can say " hopefully september but by the end of October" didn't seem to violate their NDA, but now all of a sudden any update on why that failed and an updated timeline is now blocked by an NDA?

Can't have both. 

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16 hours ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

@Simianorlizard, your restaurant analogy has no bearing on the current circumstances. The servers were available at launch for PC. They were not for consoles. The game was playable on its own on consoles. Hardly an uneatable meal smeared with excrement. 

Fellow players have made the lack of servers a problem by host-quitting. That certainly sucks, but it's not an action taken by the development team. The realization that dedicated servers would combat a widespread problem perpetrated by fellow players has prompted the move to add them for consoles. Based on their theorized timeline and the fact that we are outside of it, they did not realize the degree of work, or money, or red tape that it would take. This miscalculation is not illegal, merely inconvenient. 

An NDA is not at all a surprise, as trigger-happy forum members would be thrilled to drag down a contractor who was slower than they like, lawsuit or not. A business partner won't want the chance of their name smeared across gaming discussions so they require an NDA. That's just the player perspective, from a business perspective things like pricing and scope of work would be guarded for future negotiating with other game developers. Keep in mind, this game's business partners include the manufacturers of both consoles, entities who have the power to mandate non-negotiable NDAs.

Regarding the lawsuit you have cited, I'm afraid without any corroborating evidence, it is currently hearsay. If you would like to provide some evidence, then by all means, it is worth consideration. If the lawsuit is truly over naming rights, I can preemptively say that it is also irrelevant to the conversation.

 

Finally, constructive dialogue. The analogy isn't perfect, sure. But trying to create an analogy with something as complex as this issue is tough. I more or less wanted to bring some humor and explain the layman's view point (layman in this instance referring to an understanding of the server difference from pc to console). 

Bottom line is this is a game publisher that ran a pretty thorough beta test, then released a digital version of the game but failed to mention it was still in development.

Ark for instance clearly stated the game was in development before it's official release. It had a nightmare time of its own, for its own reasons but they remained protected from legal recourse and in my opinion, the right to be publicly scrutinized by simply stating it was still in development right next to the purchase button. It was clear and present for anyone who paid attention. 

Essentially, we either choose to believe that a game publisher wasn't bright enough after years of multiplayer gaming that online players are generally the absolute worst and ignored even the possibility that host quitting etc. would be an issue. Or they knew this would be a problem but didn't have the funding to address until sales revenue returned to aid their budget. I believe gun media Ben stated the latter was true. Perhaps it's not an illegal practice but it's certainly a spit in the mouth of every single person who purchased the game in hopes that the experience would be as smooth as it's pc counterpart. After all, we certainly would have guessed that given the state of the game since launch, host quitting would be a major issue. 

The NDA issue was never a major thing for me. Your interpretation is absolutely correct, thorough and concise. Were my name on this product I would certainly do my best to assure fans of the game that we have s specific time frame in mind, but perhaps the NDA prevents that. This still doesn't change the fact that this issue should never have arisen in the first place.

I'll forgive a publisher who's players glitch up a wall and hang out for twenty minutes. Especially if said company fixes the problem in a reasonable time. 

The Speakeasy lawsuit I'll do a bit more research on and get back to you. From several reports the reason I stated before is what happened. If true, I find it absolutely mindnumbing that Gun seems to have zero grasp on the industry in which they operate. 

Any argument that Gun couldn't imagine a problem with players would cause a ripple effect of problems across servers seems silly to me. How many literal children do you guys and gals get stuck playing with on an average night? Yes yes, they shouldn't be playing an M rated game etc. But they represent one piece of the giant turd that is your average pool of online gamers. 

 

On 12/11/2017 at 12:24 PM, GunMedia_Ben said:

We understand the frustration, but I cannot offer anything more until a later date when all the ducks are in a row. This is a very long, involved process that requires a lot of work with our 1st party partners and I cannot go into more about that at this time due to NDA with our publishing partners. There's a ton involved with this process and there's a reason many games don't utilize dedicated servers and instead opt for the host migration feature. We believe in doing this right. 

Doing it right means more time invested in the quality overall for the game and experience. There was no possible way we could have done this prior to launch and now that we have the means to be able to invest back into the game, dedicated servers are on the docket. This isn't a 'flip the switch' kind of proposition, never has been. We've got a lot of hurdles to go over, not much manpower and there's not much that can be done to alter our course. When I have more information, I will let you guys know the moment I'm able, but for now we continue to ask for your patience. No one likes dropped games, but we're working as quickly and as hard as we can. 

Here's the post where Gun Media Ben blatantly acknowledges they knew they couldnt implement dedicated servers at launch. He goes on to suggest that the reasoning was financial, at least in my interpretation. 

It's a shitty business decision at best.

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19 minutes ago, Simianorlizard said:

Here's the post where Gun Media Ben blatantly acknowledges they knew they couldnt implement dedicated servers at launch. He goes on to suggest that the reasoning was financial, at least in my interpretation. 

It's a shitty business decision at best.

Yeah. Host migration would have been done already and would cost less to implement. 

That's why i think it's BS.

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Good luck finding much of a mention at all on Speakeasy. The game simply vanished and we are left with little more than speculation. Someone at Limited Run Games seems to know what's up, waiting on a response now. Certainly strange, not often I've seen a company hide from a product like it used to make Agent Orange and later became a seed manufacturer. 

 

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7 hours ago, Simianorlizard said:

Christ dude, add me to the list of people no longer paying attention to you. 

LMFAO that made my day. Thank you for bringing real facts into the discussion. You made some good points. 

I still haven't seen where anyone from gun or illfonic promised dedicated servers by a certain date. While I do agree that they should've kept it in game demo/ preview, I don't think that really makes a difference in this case. If you were thinking of suing for the overall issues, maybe. But strictly for dedicated servers that were not promised before release, I don't think so. Dedicated servers are just a bonus that were getting (eventually) and have nothing to do with why people bought the game. I was playing all day yesterday (in quick play) and only had a few hosts drop out. Could that just be luck? Of course. But the game works. It's the toxic players that cause the issue, not the lack of dedicated servers. Blame the shitheads that ARE the problem, not the people working to FIX it.

Again, I appreciate you popping in here and cleaning up @RustledJimmy's stale argument.

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1 hour ago, Truth said:

I was playing all day yesterday (in quick play) and only had a few hosts drop out.

are you playing on xbox or ps4? if ps4 would u mind telling what ur network is like (download and upload speed and nat type)?

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7 hours ago, Truth said:

LMFAO that made my day. Thank you for bringing real facts into the discussion. You made some good points. 

I still haven't seen where anyone from gun or illfonic promised dedicated servers by a certain date. While I do agree that they should've kept it in game demo/ preview, I don't think that really makes a difference in this case. If you were thinking of suing for the overall issues, maybe. But strictly for dedicated servers that were not promised before release, I don't think so. Dedicated servers are just a bonus that were getting (eventually) and have nothing to do with why people bought the game. I was playing all day yesterday (in quick play) and only had a few hosts drop out. Could that just be luck? Of course. But the game works. It's the toxic players that cause the issue, not the lack of dedicated servers. Blame the shitheads that ARE the problem, not the people working to FIX it.

Again, I appreciate you popping in here and cleaning up @RustledJimmy's stale argument.

I think this more or less where the fundamental disagreement lies. They didn't make a promise, that much is true. They did however set a timeframe that was already long to begin with and everyone who posted up to that point was more than satisfied with that. However, quickly approaching a year since launch and still nothing has been done. Host quits are a problem,  absolutely. My question is is that truly the only problem that's causing this entire mess? It definitely seems like the ability to even find a lobby and stay connected is just as big an issue and I don't know just how much host quitting really affects that. I also don't see how Gun couldn't have seen this coming. Unless they've never played an online game they surely knew that host quitting has been a problem since the days of Quake. Most games have a solution at launch with either host migration or dedicated servers. I do agree that host migration in an assymetrical game is not the best fit. The biggest problem for me is that they absolutely knew they couldn't have dedicated servers at launch. They knew this and as gun media Ben stated, they used resources gained after release of the game to create dedicated servers. In my interpretation he's referring to using finances gained from sales, seeing as how they outsourced the project and hence can't be referring to time/man power. 

Simply stating that the game wasn't complete and that our purchase of the game would help improve it via dedicated servers, would have at the very least improved customer relations. 

This is the current state of the entire industry, sadly. Devs push a game as quickly as possible - not entirely their fault as they must appease investors etc. But we get stuck with faulty products that have to be patched later. Anyone remember Skyrim's initial playstation release? Now THAT was a nightmare. 

The very structure of the game absolutely requires dedicated servers. Host or not, if you're killed early you're forced to wait until the end of the match. Unless it's a good group of players, that gets boring. Some sort of solution here would be a great help. For instance, dead players get sent to a new lobby - together, to wait for a new game. Sure, parties get split up but parties can also play in private matches should they choose. Thinking that a host will be decent enough to be killed a minute in and be willing to wait 19 minutes is absolutely ridiculous. Yes I've seen it, but those men and women are saints and deserve a statue in their honor. 

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7 hours ago, RustledJimmy said:

You all really do deserve this crap game.

All you can do is talk trash while you do nothing to change the downward spiral this industry is taking.

But at least you'll have each other to stroke your egos.

To think that the lobby is talking trash to you after attempting several times to include you in a civil discourse is staggering. I recommended you stop hurling insults at anyone who was slightly rude and you claimed I spoke to you like a dog. No sport, you have behaved in a manner we all find disagreeable and no longer wish to discuss the matter with you. This isn't a disagreement in content, it's a refusal to adhere to "how you handle your affairs." 

I swear, talking to this guy makes me feel like a youth counselor. 

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On 1/20/2018 at 3:57 PM, RustledJimmy said:

Still missing the point. Gonna chalk it to willfull ignorance.

Also the only person I've gotten "rude" with thinks you and i are the same person.lol

No. I thought you and Simianorlizard were/are the same person.

On 1/20/2018 at 1:50 PM, Simianorlizard said:

To be fair to @Cokeyskunk, I'd thought you posted a particularly vitriolic comment to someone on here and I was wrong. I do sincerely apologize. We disagree, but at least you put thought into it without condescending. 

Bottom line here is infighting gets us nowhere.

Your apology is both appreciated and accepted. And I could not agree more about the fighting amongst ourselves. It gets us nowhere, hence my decision to move on. There is no reason to continually debate the validity of a lawsuit that the wildly vast majority of the forum thinks is an all-around bad idea, but two members think is a must.

There are far more constructive ways to utilize one's time, such as offering insight as to how to improve all game dynamics and overall gaming experience, rather than focusing on a missed hopeful deadline and trying to punish the developer for it.

Enjoy the discussion without me, gents. I can do better.     

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I really hate to keep harping on the same old crap... but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!... Give us dedicated servers already!  I read a forum post some time ago (not sure if it was here or one of the other forums) saying that dedicated servers WERE in the works and they were awaiting approval from microsoft and playstation. THAT was several months ago... and still we're hearing nothing. They keep making these patches... that in all honesty, while its nice to get a new counselor here or there and kill packs and such, basically do NOTHING for the overall playability of the game. ENOUGH.... This game... one of the greatest of the last 10 years... is suffering because the people at GUN and ILLFONIC are mishandling it at EPIC levels.  Come on folks... I know you're a small company (Gun Media)  but you can do better than this... the last couple of patches have basically been band-aids over cancer. This games losing players in DROVES.... (particularly on consoles)... and it's pathetic. This game has SO MUCH potential... and you guys are letting it die on the vine. Before you start throwing a whole bunch more crap at it... why don't you fix whats already there. Thus far, every patch  has done nothing but make things worse in my opinion. We get a new patch... and a bunch of new bugs to go with it.  Granted, a FEW minor things were fixed with the last one... but I saw far more new glitches than old ones that were fixed. FIX WHAT WE HAVE.... ITS GREAT.  THEN we can worry about NEW stuff.... dowloadable content and what not.  THE BIGGEST thing you can do to help this game is dedicated servers.... NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT IS or HOW GOOD IT PLAYS, NONE of it matters if 7 out of every 10 games never makes it to completion because of host drops. And believe me.... I know PLENTY of HARD CORE players who LOVE this game who have just given up on it already because they just can't deal with the idiocy of the host drops and ridiculousness of a lot of the trolling and such that goes on.  The answer to that is not to put 100 more pocket knives on the map, a new Jason, more counselors, a new map, or even a new game mode. The ANSWER is DEDICATED SERVERS and a troll/glitch reporting  process IN GAME that makes it easy to contact the developers about problems they're having.  It's a video game folks... Not rocket science. 

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We have a new update coming to balance Jason. According to Gun there are some other tweaks coming with the update. Cross your fingers gang,  we might finally have a playable game. 

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3 minutes ago, Simianorlizard said:

Scratch that. We get Roy and Pinehurst.......yay. Seriously. What. The. Fuck.

You're assuming that's everything. They also said they will announce more on monday.

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Hey, somedays the connections stick and you can play for a hours straight and i'm happy to get a connection error or host quit just so I can go do something else with my life besides becoming the ultimate F13 player(which I am one of the best hands down!)! And when i'm the host I NEVER just quit mid match.  I communicate with the people in the match that this will be my last round or if my headset isn't charged i quit the lobby in between cause yes i'm the best host too & most others can suck it!)  and as far as dying and waiting 19 minutes, hell, I just go do some bs around the house and check back in when I hear people frantically clicking to ready up.  Everyone seems so impatient.  The game would be much better if it never crashed or hosts didn't bail or connections weren't lost but just roll with it for now and trust GUN and Ill to get everything fixed up.  I'm sure they are working on it.  And DO NOT frickin threaten with lawsuits you freakin dirty rats!  what are you tattle tales?  snitches?  It's good that you voice your concerns and put the heat and pressure on the developers but everyone in the world needs to cool it with the lawsuits!  You guys act like wimpy nerds!  and I swear to god when we meet up at Crystal lake i'm going to knock that silly hockey mask off, take a dump in it , then slap it back on your face before i kill you!  And if i'm Jason,  I'm going to make you waste all your stupid pocket knives and health spray and eventually take a dump on your mangled carcass.   Gun, please give Jason the ability to tea bag or take dumps.... 

The servers seem worse with the update. Perhaps there was a boost in the number of people playing now that caused it but fuck man. This is beyond old. Players abusing a game has always been a problem. Anyone who's even held a controller in an online setting know this. You fucked up Gun/illogic. You fucked up spectacularly.

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So can i still run my own server if i choose to? You could choose join or host game. That would be wonderful.

 

Also, what about voting to kick players out who ruin the game for others?

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15 hours ago, Codeflowd said:

So can i still run my own server if i choose to? You could choose join or host game. That would be wonderful.

 

Also, what about voting to kick players out who ruin the game for others?

No and no. The devs for this game are awful to console players. And you'll get nothing.

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Well i sure hope you are mistaken.

It would be such a shame if they ruin big parts of the game..

We really need more admin controls.. so that people who behave bad in the server lobby or ingame could get kicked.

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I'm so glad that I built a gaming PC over wasting my money on a console gaming on a PC is so much better then on a console any day for many reasons such as improved graphics with a PC you have graphic options you don't get on a console this allows you to maximize the graphics of games to the developers intended specks with a console your locked in, on most games that allow mods and some that don't you will find mods for games by the tons online that you can never do on a console at least not to the extent you can on a PC, with a gaming PC you can just go buy the new graphics card out and be years ahead of a console as far as performance and graphics go with a console you have what you have until the next gen console comes out usually years down the line,  even though the new Xbox One X or Xbox x is out and the Ps5 around the corner instead of spending 500 bucks or more on one of those for a couple hundred more I can build a PC from scratch that again will be ahead of them by a few years. I don't understand why more people don't just convert to PC and ditch consoles all together considering the pro's that a PC can provide over the use of the console.  I plan to do another build soon due to my current computer being 10yrs old yet with a 10yr old gaming pc I thought of the future and made sure I got a good motherboard and processor the two main things you need and to this day I can smoke a PS4 and Xbox one with my kick ass Nvidia 1060 gtx graphics card with 6gigs ddr5 ram, 16gig's system ram, 1tb solid state hard drive, and amd athlon black edition quad core processor. 

 

On 3/14/2018 at 5:57 AM, Codeflowd said:

Well i sure hope you are mistaken.

It would be such a shame if they ruin big parts of the game..

We really need more admin controls.. so that people who behave bad in the server lobby or ingame could get kicked.

That's a good idea except with all the trolls we have now and seeing how people love to break rules etc with this game having a kick option is just setup for failure it would get abused like crazy then we will have people by the tons complaining how it's being abused and trolled and a cry to remove it. If it were for honest players in the first place the idea wouldn't even be possible something to think about my friend as this won't work in my opinion.

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@pilospc if you don’t understand why people switch from PC to console, and never go back, there isn’t anything that can be said.  Enjoy your pissing wars in constantly upgrading your hardware, not being able to play older games, and not playing on a balanced field due to hardware differences.  I, and all other PlayStation owners, are more than happy to be isolated from the “Wild West” PC gamers, who can easily hack any game.  I played PC games for 20 years and will never go back to it.  I luv Sony’s direction, and with 2 exceptions (soon to be 1) I only play the AWESOME single player games that EA states, “No one wants play”.

@RustledJimmy if there is ever a class action suit against GunMedia, I’m sure that you’ll have a huge amount of support across all platforms.

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On 5/31/2018 at 6:34 PM, Kaelum said:

@pilospc if you don’t understand why people switch from PC to console, and never go back, there isn’t anything that can be said.  Enjoy your pissing wars in constantly upgrading your hardware, not being able to play older games, and not playing on a balanced field due to hardware differences.  I, and all other PlayStation owners, are more than happy to be isolated from the “Wild West” PC gamers, who can easily hack any game.  I played PC games for 20 years and will never go back to it.  I luv Sony’s direction, and with 2 exceptions (soon to be 1) I only play the AWESOME single player games that EA states, “No one wants play”.

@RustledJimmy if there is ever a class action suit against GunMedia, I’m sure that you’ll have a huge amount of support across all platforms.

What do you mean i can't play old shit i can play nintendo games on my pc from that console up with a console enabler all i'm saying is i have had a console xbox 360 was a piece of shit always overheated and didn't play games right ain't ever looking back hell with consoles man they are locked in no ability to max the graphics etc hell my pc even plays better then the xbox one x and ps4 pro i can 4k witcher 3 max settings 30fps so yeah im happy.

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