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6 minutes ago, Vincent said:

It's more of a problem when the morph spots are right next to objectives or when you have jasons accidently morphing on people and just grabbing them for a free kill, which really shouldn't happen. The morph system should not even use fixed locations, nor should it be used to morph on top of people under any normal circumstance. It should just look at the spot you clicked on the map and find the closest available spot(not obstructed by objects, buildings or people). 

What is the alternative to fixed locations?  I get the impression part of the reason for the fixed ones is that the alternative - you land precisely where you aim the cursor - would be even more OP.  What's the 3rd option?  It's either fixed points or it's precision teleporting. 

Now if you want to argue that some of them should be shifted...maybe.  It seems like they put them in a grid and then sort of laid the map on top of them, so some of them are in kind of odd spots, but I don't know whether they left it as-is or shifted some of them around.  Some spots you can land very close to objectives.  Other ones, you're always going to land an annoying distance away no matter how far you aim.  

You can certainly learn where those spots are, but free kills are just gonna happen.  I've been walking along and had someone climb out a window into my arms.  Last night, inside a cabin someone opened an interior door and literally ran into me, thinking I was outside. I smashed their head in that door.  Wrong place, wrong time is going to happen regardless, and it happens a lot less with morph than with anything else.

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Just now, Redcat345 said:

Nope, someone admitted earlier it helps counselors bypass Jason traps to repair stuff, also JPops removed the video because it details how to exploit. 

Not only is it not an exploit(Jpops is either misinformed or unclear on the definition of an exploit) but it does not in any way help anyone "bypass jason traps". Body-blocking is an entirely different subject and has nothing to do with morph trapping.

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6 minutes ago, Vincent said:

That's like saying "if hitting jason with a bat blocks jason from an objective, it's an exploit" or "if trapping a door blocks Jason from walking through the door, it's an exploit". It's ridiculous reasoning. Stop trying to justify really bad mechanics, that are blatant fun killers for anyone that isn't Jason, because they get you free kills.  

No, the difference here is one of tools versus mechanics.

The bat is a tool for blocking Jason from an objective.

Morphtrapping involves breaking down a seperate mechanic that is necessary for the game to process Jason's movement and exploiting the way that mechanic has to work in order to block Jason from an objective.

Morph works the way it works (I am intentionally leaving out details) in order to allow Jason to move. The mechanic is the way it is to facilitate that movement. Graphing the movements and plotting the way it works so you can circumvent that movement is why people believe it is an exploit. The trap is a tool, deciding to place it in this way is using it as an exploit imo.

If you found out hitting Jason from the left side on a 45 degree angle always knocks him off the map, intenionally doing that is an exploit. Sure, the mechanics are there, but not intended.

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11 minutes ago, Vincent said:

Not only is it not an exploit(Jpops is either misinformed or unclear on the definition of an exploit) but it does not in any way help anyone "bypass jason traps". Body-blocking is an entirely different subject and has nothing to do with morph trapping.

Wrong, it stops Jason from trapping objectives by blocking the placement of his traps because he cannot move them and blocks the counselors from tripping them.it needs to be patched by allowing Jason traps to still work or by allowing Jason to move traps

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3 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

The bat is a tool for blocking Jason from an objective.

So would hitting a Jason with a bat that morphs next to you an exploit? Would waiting next to a morph spot while a friend fails his repair check be an exploit?

Just now, Definitelynotjason said:

Morphtrapping involves breaking down a seperate mechanic that is necessary for the game to process Jason's movement and exploiting the way that mechanic has to work in order to block Jason from an objective.

Morphtrapping only requires you to remember a fixed location. That's it. You are literally declaring basic human memory an exploit. It's absurd. 

4 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

The mechanic is the way it is to facilitate that movement.

The developers chose to make the morph spot fixed locations. That is their mistake. It is as much of an exploit to morph on top of someone for an instant kill than it would be to know that a Jason could morph to a location. 

 

5 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

If you found out hitting Jason from the left side on a 45 degree angle always knocks him off the map, intenionally doing that is an exploit

Firstly, trapping Jason and hitting him off the map are two very different things. One ends the game for everyone. One is a minor set-back to Jason. Secondly, if there was such a bug, it would 100% be the developers' responsibility to fix it, and clearly wouldn't be intended the way morph spots were. If morph spots were never intended, then the devs would have used a different system for their teleportation. 

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10 minutes ago, Crooked Wookie said:

What is the alternative to fixed locations?  I get the impression part of the reason for the fixed ones is that the alternative - you land precisely where you aim the cursor - would be even more OP.  What's the 3rd option?  It's either fixed points or it's precision teleporting. 

Now if you want to argue that some of them should be shifted...maybe.  It seems like they put them in a grid and then sort of laid the map on top of them, so some of them are in kind of odd spots, but I don't know whether they left it as-is or shifted some of them around.  Some spots you can land very close to objectives.  Other ones, you're always going to land an annoying distance away no matter how far you aim.  

You can certainly learn where those spots are, but free kills are just gonna happen.  I've been walking along and had someone climb out a window into my arms.  Last night, inside a cabin someone opened an interior door and literally ran into me, thinking I was outside. I smashed their head in that door.  Wrong place, wrong time is going to happen regardless, and it happens a lot less with morph than with anything else.

Option 3) Declare no morph  zones so if Jason clicks there he is shifted away to the closest point that is allowed to morph again and leave precise morph in. That way morph would be dangerous out in the woods but not allow him to go within arms reach of a car/phonebox.

 

Option 4) Make the morphgrid so that a line is dead center on any given objective (which is what most ppl will click) so you have a 50/50 and at least need two traps. As things stand one trap is often enough. Packanack lodge for example will pretty much always leave you at the same spot since the second spot is near the generator and the third is far behind the house.

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16 hours ago, Redcat345 said:

Wrong, it stops Jason from trapping objectives by blocking the placement of his traps because he cannot move them and blocks the counselors from tripping them.

Again, you are completely wrong. Not only does morph trapping have nothing to do with trap-blocking objectives(because the morph spots are not directly on the objectives but rather slightly off to the side) but Jason can literally walk into those traps with block to move them if he needs to. Not only that, trap-blocking objectives is also not an exploit but, rather, poor design choices from the developers. This would be an issue for the developers to fix, not players. 

 

16 hours ago, Crooked Wookie said:

What is the alternative to fixed locations?

I think the best one would be to have Jason pick a spot and then have the game pick the closest available spot that is not obstructed by people/objects. This would eliminate "lucky morphs", which result in a free grab for Jason, and this would prevent morph trapping/blocking. They could even take this one step further and add line of sight as a factor as well(spawn jason in a location not currently seen by counselors). Another solution would be to randomize the morph spots but, honestly, this is just as bad as the fixed locations. Morph should be a little bit smarter and a little bit more in-line with the flow/feel of the game/movies. 

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1 hour ago, Vincent said:

All it requires is, literally, the capacity to remember a fixed location for longer than 8 seconds. Goldfish can do this.

 

Goldfish can, but most of F13's playerbase don't have that kind of superior memory retention.

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5 hours ago, lHeartBreakerl said:

"Kite" is refferring to keeping him busy. Have him chase you and lead him on for as long as possible. Is someone sent 1/4 the game trying to kill you then that's just a bad Jason.

Not necessarily. If I shift into a house over the bear trap then manage to shift grab them immediately I consider that a win.

House shifting for the win. :lol:

5 hours ago, Redcat345 said:

Counselor trap the phone? No problem, I'll eat the trap and place mine around it.

I got a metal aftertaste in my mouth from the traps I've stepped in. Looks like mother's taking me to the dentist. :mellow:

4 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

No, in the pre-release trailers for the game, bear traps were shown being used against Jason elsewhere in the maps. Therefore they didn't foresee people using bear traps at the phone and other repair places.

I wonder how many things the developers didn't foresee that have happened.

4 hours ago, Crooked Wookie said:

I had that happen to me once, and I'd be lying if I said I haven't used that to good effect as Jason myself.  I *usually* double trap the phone unless I'm playing Part 7 or 9, I admit.
I was watching a stream once, and someone stepped in a trap at the fuse box, got free, immediately set off another one and died, and the host/streamer kind of gently chewed Jason out for that.  She was playing private matches with subs only, and one of her house rules was 'no more than one trap in a given spot.'  So one on the fuse box - IF someone sets that off and you have more, you can go back and place another one.  One on the battery and one on the gas is acceptable, since that counts as two different spots and will only kill you if you manage to run into one after the other somehow.

There have been a few games where I've played around with that - it definitely gives the counselors a leg up since they only have to get through/past a single trap and can call the police - which in turn, as Jason, makes you keep a closer eye on that spot, come back and check it more frequently, adds some tension and danger to the game.  It's stressful but kind of fun.

I will admit: IF they remove the body blocking exploit, I would not cry if they did something like increase the block radius of a trap enough that you can only effectively place one on the phone at a time.  I think it makes things pretty interesting.

House rules keep this game fun and interesting.

I'm gonna have to stock up on popcorn after reading all of this thread. Morph trapping isn't something I've seen in-game yet. It may become a big deal, it may not. Either way, I'll deal with as I see fit. Things change in this game from time to time. It's how you deal with the change that defines you as a player.

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35 minutes ago, Vincent said:

So would hitting a Jason with a bat that morphs next to you an exploit? Would waiting next to a morph spot while a friend fails his repair check be an exploit?

 

No, that is reacting to a situation. Jason appears, you hit Jason. That's kind of the point of the bat. It never occured to me to grid out the game, go inside a private match with a friend to continually morph to spots so I could plot them out and derive visual cues from the exact location as my friend continually morphs in to the same spot in order to plan out my next game strategy.

38 minutes ago, Vincent said:

 

Morphtrapping only requires you to remember a fixed location. That's it. You are literally declaring basic human memory an exploit. It's absurd. 

 

Nope. As we saw in the video, it required a lot of testing in a private room with a willing Jason. I might have let this slide if all it took was remembering a spot, but it clearly didn't. Continually having a person morph so you can pinpoint the spot in a non competitive match, so that you can bring that in to a competitive match is not the same as just remembering what you saw in game. Hell, I might be inclined to be ok with it if the person just watched a buttload of videos and was able to pin point the spot. Football coacjes and players watch tape for days. That isn't cheating. Getting the other team's quarterback to come to your practice so he can show you all of his best moves is cheating.

41 minutes ago, Vincent said:

The developers chose to make the morph spot fixed locations. That is their mistake. It is as much of an exploit to morph on top of someone for an instant kill than it would be to know that a Jason could morph to a location. 

 

If Jason knew a person was in that exact location because... how would Jason know that? Someone would have to tell Jason there was a counselor on that morph spot, or maybe the jason was watching a counselor stream, and saw it, but otherwise Jason can't know there will be someone on his exact morph spot before he hits the spot, so your point is invalid here. Jason would have to cheat to know that. If he morphs and there is a counselor in reach, well that is just luck. If you were randomly placing traps around the camp and Jason morphed in to one, well that is just luck. That is not what we are talking about here.

45 minutes ago, Vincent said:

Firstly, trapping Jason and hitting him off the map are two very different things. One ends the game for everyone. One is a minor set-back to Jason. Secondly, if there was such a bug, it would 100% be the developers' responsibility to fix it, and clearly wouldn't be intended the way morph spots were. If morph spots were never intended, then the devs would have used a different system for their teleportation. 

Ok, my analogy was flawed, but so is your response. First off, morph spots were intended. The bat was intended to be used to attack Jason. So yes technically it was intended to disrupt Jason, just not in the way I described, which means while the developers intended to have Jason morph, they didn't intend to have him camped in that way, or they themselves would have released a morph grid and placed little x's on that for our convenience. Just because a four stroke engine works through suck squeeze bang blow, doesn't mean the developers of the four stroke engine want you to use rocket fuel in your outboard motor.

Just because a thing can be done, doesn't mean it should be done. I harken back to how this gem of an idea was developed. The person tested it by cheating. Ok, not cheating since you can do what you want in a private match, but look at my quarterback point above. The developers never intended to have Jason help the counselors by continually doing something so they could pinpoin actions and the inner workings of the mechanic.

This isn't remembering to use the hit Jason from behind almost always stuns mechanic like you seem to be implying. This is the spend hours with a private non aggressive Jason friend to pinpoint an exact location then trap that location because the mechanic never expected you to do this because working with Jason is sort of counter the basic mechanic of the game thing.

 

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2 hours ago, Vincent said:

Jason can literally walk into those traps with block to move them if he needs to

Only if the counselors are foolish enough to set the trap. Placing it in front of the fuse box, but not setting it, is the way to go.

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17 hours ago, Vincent said:

Again, you are completely wrong. Not only does morph trapping have nothing to do with trap-blocking objectives(because the morph spots are not directly on the objectives but rather slightly off to the side) but Jason can literally walk into those traps with block to move them if he needs to. Not only that, trap-blocking objectives is also not an exploit but, rather, poor design choices from the developers. This would be an issue for the developers to fix, not players. 

 

I think the best one would be to have Jason pick a spot and then have the game pick the closest available spot that is not obstructed by people/objects. This would eliminate "lucky morphs", which result in a free grab for Jason, and this would prevent morph trapping/blocking. They could even take this one step further and add line of sight as a factor as well(spawn jason in a location not currently seen by counselors). Another solution would be to randomize the morph spots but, honestly, this is just as bad as the fixed locations. Morph should be a little bit smarter and a little bit more in-line with the flow/feel of the game/movies. 

But landing near a person or objective is not in any way 'obstructed.'  He already can't land right on top of anything 'solid.'  
And again, I fail to see why a lucky morph into arm's reach is in any way more OP than simply spotting someone from a ways off and shift-grabbing them.

 

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18 hours ago, Vincent said:

Again, you are completely wrong. Not only does morph trapping have nothing to do with trap-blocking objectives(because the morph spots are not directly on the objectives but rather slightly off to the side) but Jason can literally walk into those traps with block to move them if he needs to. Not only that, trap-blocking objectives is also not an exploit but, rather, poor design choices from the developers. This would be an issue for the developers to fix, not players. 

 

 

Wrong, you are trying to justify an exploit and worse, fighting an exploit using an exploit instead of reporting it to a dev to be fixed. Tired of people using exploits instead of playing honestly.

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For those complaining on morph and shift grabbing, saying they are cheap or an exploit. You must have never seen Friday the 13th part VIII. He shift grabs the asian girl on the dance floor, and morph grabs Charles in the building and throws him through the window. If the devs understand this and put features in game to mimic all of the ways Jason uses to catch victims, maybe you "die hard fans" should actually rewatch and study up on these things instead of getting riled up and demanding a powerless Jason, which did not exist in the films universe.

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3 minutes ago, jameson87 said:

For those complaining on morph and shift grabbing, saying they are cheap or an exploit. You must have never seen Friday the 13th part VIII. He shift grabs the asian girl on the dance floor, and morph grabs Charles in the building and throws him through the window. If the devs understand this and put features in game to mimic all of the ways Jason uses to catch victims, maybe you "die hard fans" should actually rewatch and study up on these things instead of getting riled up and demanding a powerless Jason, which did not exist in the films universe.

Maybe I don't know what shift grabbing is, because if it is grabbing as you come out of shift, that seems like an intentional design choice and feature of the game.

Morph grabbing seems like it is mostly luck. You morph and look, a counselor happens to be standing there. Grab them! I know there is some skill to morphing during chases, but that seems pretty hard to pull off to me as a high percentage move. I know people will say, git gud brah on this but , me thinks they are selective remembering the number of times it works for them.

I just watched about 15 videos in which a Jason cleared the board of all counselors. Shift and morph grab were successful about 15% of the time. Maybe as much as 20% but no more than that. The first grab misses 80% of the time, though the second grab is about 50% effective, mostly because the counselor can either juke left or right. It is a coin flip.

Morphing was harder for me to pinpoint as it is harder to tell if the Jason player is intending to chase someone with their morph or just randomly morphing to hot spots and getting lucky. I did not see more than 3 or 4 grabs within the first two seconds of morph. These were always at objectives though. I did see a couple of times were morph followed by either a short 3-5 second chase (mostly ended because a counselor chose wrong and ran right at Jason), or a quickly hit shift that ended fast at counselor's face. A quick morph-shift-grab just seems like great Jason play to me.

If I am wrong about what these things are my bad, but if this is what we are talking about then no, they seem intended abilities.

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3 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

Maybe I don't know what shift grabbing is, because if it is grabbing as you come out of shift, that seems like an intentional design choice and feature of the game.

Morph grabbing seems like it is mostly luck. You morph and look, a counselor happens to be standing there. Grab them! I know there is some skill to morphing during chases, but that seems pretty hard to pull off to me as a high percentage move. I know people will say, git gud brah on this but , me thinks they are selective remembering the number of times it works for them.

I just watched about 15 videos in which a Jason cleared the board of all counselors. Shift and morph grab were successful about 15% of the time. Maybe as much as 20% but no more than that. The first grab misses 80% of the time, though the second grab is about 50% effective, mostly because the counselor can either juke left or right. It is a coin flip.

Morphing was harder for me to pinpoint as it is harder to tell if the Jason player is intending to chase someone with their morph or just randomly morphing to hot spots and getting lucky. I did not see more than 3 or 4 grabs within the first two seconds of morph. These were always at objectives though. I did see a couple of times were morph followed by either a short 3-5 second chase (mostly ended because a counselor chose wrong and ran right at Jason), or a quickly hit shift that ended fast at counselor's face. A quick morph-shift-grab just seems like great Jason play to me.

If I am wrong about what these things are my bad, but if this is what we are talking about then no, they seem intended abilities.

Exactly dude. But there are people that flood forums complaining about how overpowered Jason is and that these should be nerfed so you can't pull these, highly luck based, kills off. When like you said they are intentionally there, and if you have seen the movies they are in them as well. People want a higher chance to escape is all it boils down to and bitch and moan about how unfairly overpowered Jason is. Yet it was that way in the movies. I don't know, I guess they expect Jason's to just sit the match out and let them escape. I, for one, won't. Nor will I not kill you if I just so happen to morph right next to you. If this happens, oh well for you. You are dead. And for shift grabbing if I get you, again, oh well. Your dead. Unless you have a pocket knife or firecrackers that is. Then I will catch you later. No skin off my back. 

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11 minutes ago, jameson87 said:

Exactly dude. But there are people that flood forums complaining about how overpowered Jason is and that these should be nerfed so you can't pull these, highly luck based, kills off. When like you said they are intentionally there, and if you have seen the movies they are in them as well. People want a higher chance to escape is all it boils down to and bitch and moan about how unfairly overpowered Jason is. Yet it was that way in the movies. I don't know, I guess they expect Jason's to just sit the match out and let them escape. I, for one, won't. Nor will I not kill you if I just so happen to morph right next to you. If this happens, oh well for you. You are dead. And for shift grabbing if I get you, again, oh well. Your dead. Unless you have a pocket knife or firecrackers that is. Then I will catch you later. No skin off my back. 

No offense, but I am going to distance myself from your inflammatory statements on the motives of the people complaining. There may be several reasons why someone might complain or feel this is an issue, and that is on them.

I choose not to speculate, just to explain my feelings and thoughts on the matter.

Often times people are influenced by selection bias and confirmation bias. They take the small sample size of their last couple of frustrating games and they extrapolate the entire data pool as if that was the case. Then it happens again soonish and bam you have a case. This does not make them whiney, bitchey or bad at the game. It makes them human, just like me.

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11 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

No offense, but I am going to distance myself from your inflammatory statements on the motives of the people complaining. There may be several reasons why someone might complain or feel this is an issue, and that is on them.

I choose not to speculate, just to explain my feelings and thoughts on the matter.

Often times people are influenced by selection bias and confirmation bias. They take the small sample size of their last couple of frustrating games and they extrapolate the entire data pool as if that was the case. Then it happens again soonish and bam you have a case. This does not make them whiney, bitchey or bad at the game. It makes them human, just like me.

I didn't see anything inflammatory about my response. Plenty of people have called for this to be removed and constantly cite to fair and balanced gameplay as the reason. Sorry, but for the sake of the game being like the movies, this argument holds no validity. Where in the franchise's history has it ever been fair and balanced? Jason is supposed to be an extremely overpowering menace who very few ever escape. I think the game is just fine on touching on this and get tired of people always calling for making changes that will strip this game down to a fair and balanced game of cat and mouse. Sorry if something i said offended you, but it is what it is. Nothing inflammatory, just truth.

For, numerous different times, people do whine about how overpowered Jason is, in multiple different posts. Calling for him to be toned down. That is mind boggling stupid in my honest opinion.

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Just now, Jason's Whetstone said:

I would like a more dynamic spawn points for counselors, escape objectives and Jasons. Not varied enough imo

Now I can definitely get behind this.

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14 minutes ago, jameson87 said:

I didn't see anything inflammatory about my response. Plenty of people have called for this to be removed and constantly cite to fair and balanced gameplay as the reason. Sorry, but for the sake of the game being like the movies, this argument holds no validity. Where in the franchise's history has it ever been fair and balanced? Jason is supposed to be an extremely overpowering menace who very few ever escape. I think the game is just fine on touching on this and get tired of people always calling for making changes that will strip this game down to a fair and balanced game of cat and mouse. Sorry if something i said offended you, but it is what it is. Nothing inflammatory, just truth.

For, numerous different times, people do whine about how overpowered Jason is, in multiple different posts. Calling for him to be toned down. That is mind boggling stupid in my honest opinion.

Again, I do not disagree much from your points, if at all.

Saying someone is whining and bitching it what I call inflammatory. If I am in an argument with my wife and I say she is acting like a bitch, or is bitching, it is in her eyes, the exact same as calling her a bitch, and she reacts accordingly, and not favorably.

As you did here in the beginning, you stopped characterizing the way in which people are calling for change and merely stated that they are, and constantly is probably a fair assessment. This is a much better post in my opinion. And that is all it is, my opinion. I am not the tone police of any one but myself. I feel you can post it in any way you want. I just wanted t6o be clear that while I was agreeing with your point, I was not agreeing with your tone. Which is fine.

Again, do not change for me, but also, do not expect mne to change for you. You do not have to stay silent on how or what I say, and visa versa.

 

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Bear traps are to snag up a player who didn't see it and catch them by surprise

I think if ur smart enough to see it

you should be able to dismantle it..with ur pocket  knife and if ur Jason and you see it u should be able to his break it or diguard it..blocking over it looked glitchy so something else official would be better smacking it with ur weapon would suffice 

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19 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

Again, I do not disagree much from your points, if at all.

Saying someone is whining and bitching it what I call inflammatory. If I am in an argument with my wife and I say she is acting like a bitch, or is bitching, it is in her eyes, the exact same as calling her a bitch, and she reacts accordingly, and not favorably.

As you did here in the beginning, you stopped characterizing the way in which people are calling for change and merely stated that they are, and constantly is probably a fair assessment. This is a much better post in my opinion. And that is all it is, my opinion. I am not the tone police of any one but myself. I feel you can post it in any way you want. I just wanted t6o be clear that while I was agreeing with your point, I was not agreeing with your tone. Which is fine.

Again, do not change for me, but also, do not expect mne to change for you. You do not have to stay silent on how or what I say, and visa versa.

 

I get your point, and appreciate you input. Wish more could have open discourse without the personal attacks that so many stoop to. 

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