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Looks like this might be a new thing or maybe old but first time I have heard of it.  Seems like it could be a problem once people figure out the high traffic spots around the areas like phone box, cars, boats, etc.  

Thoughts?

 

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Why do you dress up like a helicopter pilot @Pappus?

I'd be bothered by this if it were something happening every game but I haven't run into it yet myself. Also, it seems like a minor annoyance more than anything.

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I've seen counselor's placing a bear trap on the fuse box.  Apparently, it prevents Jason from trapping the box, as an item is already taking up that place.  Seems like a viable option, because then when you go to the fuse box, you can move the bear trap and work around it without burning a pocket knife or eating the Jason trap.

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I try to give meta gaming the benefit of the doubt. I say, well hey, analysis and working the angles is part of some people's play style.

This is fine for single player games. Heck I mod the bejeepers out of Skyrim and Fallout. Who cares right? At the most I am "cheating" myself out of the game experience as intended. Sometimes you just want to kill dragons with a big fucking sword. Sometimes you want to shoot Mutants with a BFG and not have to worry about ammo. Heck sometimes I mod the games to make them harder. I have died of frostbite in Skyrim. No biggie, it is my game.

With this online game I just can't stand the metagaming, because it feels like cheating. It feels like you are taking a game and breaking it down to parts and then removing the actual playing of it and replacing it with a strategy just designed to get stats. You remove the fun of it by not playing the game. You haven't outwitted Jason or the other player, just the developers who tried to provide a fun experience for their customers.

You break any sense of immersion by doing this, and for what? To mine salty tears? Laugh at frustrating other people by taking advantage of things that were never intended?

Other people's sadness doesn't fill me with joy. Other people's frustration doesn't fill me with Joy.

Getting away from a well played Jason because I played well fills me with joy.

The rest is just some bs.

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20 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

I try to give meta gaming the benefit of the doubt. I say, well hey, analysis and working the angles is part of some people's play style.

This is fine for single player games. Heck I mod the bejeepers out of Skyrim and Fallout. Who cares right? At the most I am "cheating" myself out of the game experience as intended. Sometimes you just want to kill dragons with a big fucking sword. Sometimes you want to shoot Mutants with a BFG and not have to worry about ammo. Heck sometimes I mod the games to make them harder. I have died of frostbite in Skyrim. No biggie, it is my game.

With this online game I just can't stand the metagaming, because it feels like cheating. It feels like you are taking a game and breaking it down to parts and then removing the actual playing of it and replacing it with a strategy just designed to get stats. You remove the fun of it by not playing the game. You haven't outwitted Jason or the other player, just the developers who tried to provide a fun experience for their customers.

You break any sense of immersion by doing this, and for what? To mine salty tears? Laugh at frustrating other people by taking advantage of things that were never intended?

Other people's sadness doesn't fill me with joy. Other people's frustration doesn't fill me with Joy.

Getting away from a well played Jason because I played well fills me with joy.

The rest is just some bs.

Couldnt agree more with your thoughts in this post, but ESPECIALLY the part that I bolded. For me, immersion is tantamount. If I am immersed in something I enjoy it and it is my ultimate aim. You nailed it completely with the fact it takes you out of the atmosphere, and in to a whole other arena. I am not gonna say it is wrong really, but it is not how I wish to play the game. 

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This is why there should not be a "morph grid," or at the very least the morph grid should be so dense that Jason will appear wherever the mouse is placed on the map. Additionally they need to do something about placing counselor bear traps in front of the phone box. Jason can't do anything about it, and that I can assure you was not intended.

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I agree with the above sentiments. Using tactics like this, you aren't proving your skill. You're not even proving your ability to outwit the developers. You're simply proving your ability to watch a YouTube video. And in the process, make the game worse for everyone in it.

I put morph trapping up there with muting Jason so he can't hear you, playing in party chat, bodyblocking traps, animation cancelling, blocking flares, and using combat stance to walk through traps and firecrackers. Bullshit exploits that ruin the experience the developers intended.

7 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Additionally they need to do something about placing counselor bear traps in front of the phone box. Jason can't do anything about it, and that I can assure you was not intended.

This is fine. Yes, Jason has to eat the trap, but all it does is delay him a few seconds. If he gets there in good time, it makes no difference.

Morph trapping is different, in that it relies on outside knowledge that the counselors would never have, and ruins the atmosphere as a result. Trapping the phone box is a logical thing to do, and is something that can be avoided by simply preventing counselors getting that far on the objective in the first place.

Morph traps can't be mitigated. I barely ever get the cops called on me in a match anyway, but I do morph to the same locations a number of times every single match.

I've never been morph trapped, and I can't imagine the inconvenience is huge, but it's not in the spirit of the game at all IMO.

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2 minutes ago, ZooMalfunction said:

This is fine. Yes, Jason has to eat the trap, but all it does is delay him a few seconds. If he gets there in good time, it makes no difference.

It's not about delaying Jason from destroying the box, but Jason can no longer place a trap there because he can't interact with the counselor bear traps. He can't pick them up or move them, except for using combat stance to glue it to his leg and move it, which is going to be patched soon so after that he won't be able to move the trap at all.

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7 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

It's not about delaying Jason from destroying the box, but Jason can no longer place a trap there because he can't interact with the counselor bear traps. He can't pick them up or move them, except for using combat stance to glue it to his leg and move it, which is going to be patched soon so after that he won't be able to move the trap at all.

Now that is different, and something I didn't know.

Yes, that is bullshit.

I'd say the solution should be that if Jason tries to place a trap on a set counselor trap, he simply converts the existing trap by placing leaves on it, without losing any from his inventory.

This won't cause problems for counselors, as in reality, there's very little reason to trap any outdoor area other than for trolling purposes like this. Jason can't trap indoors, so this wouldn't affect 'fair' traps.

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9 minutes ago, ZooMalfunction said:

Now that is different, and something I didn't know.

Yes, that is bullshit.

I'd say the solution should be that if Jason tries to place a trap on a set counselor trap, he simply converts the existing trap by placing leaves on it, without losing any from his inventory.

This won't cause problems for counselors, as in reality, there's very little reason to trap any outdoor area other than for trolling purposes like this. Jason can't trap indoors, so this wouldn't affect 'fair' traps.

Seems like it works as intended: Jason traps block counselor beartraps too, and if Jason traps the phone first, the counselors can't move his traps to place their own to protect the box. So why should he be able to move theirs? It's just a race to get the space right there trapped first, and Jason has every advantage (morph, spawns with traps, knows where the phone is).

If he still loses the race to trap the space right in front of the box? Well, tough shit for him.

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28 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

This is why there should not be a "morph grid," or at the very least the morph grid should be so dense that Jason will appear wherever the mouse is placed on the map. Additionally they need to do something about placing counselor bear traps in front of the phone box. Jason can't do anything about it, and that I can assure you was not intended.

Since Jason can trap the phone then councillors have the right to stop him. Seems those that favour Jason don't want the councillors having any chance of escape. Jason has two ways to avoid councillor traps, and he doesn't use up any resorces, councillors need to "eat" Jason's traps and use a spray or use up a knife. So tough luck if you don't like councillors putting traps at the phone because i hate Jason traps at the phone and the two cars. 

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3 minutes ago, Peter1970 said:

Since Jason can trap the phone then councillors have the right to stop him. Seems those that favour Jason don't want the councillors having any chance of escape. Jason has two ways to avoid councillor traps, and he doesn't use up any resorces, councillors need to "eat" Jason's traps and use a spray or use up a knife. So tough luck if you don't like councillors putting traps at the phone because i hate Jason traps at the phone and the two cars. 

I try to think about what's best for balanced fairness across the board. If either Jason or the counselors can do something that entirely denies one or the other access to the objectives, then it should be looked at for balancing. If Jason could place something in front of objectives that permanently stopped counselors from accessing it, that wouldn't be fair. If the counselors can permanently stop Jason from accessing the objectives, that's not fair either. One exception to that would be using a repaired car to block Jason from smashing the phone box. That requires a lot of coordination and planning. Putting a bear trap in front of repair slots, not so much.

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1 hour ago, Definitelynotjason said:

With this online game I just can't stand the metagaming, because it feels like cheating. It feels like you are taking a game and breaking it down to parts and then removing the actual playing of it and replacing it with a strategy just designed to get stats. You remove the fun of it by not playing the game. You haven't outwitted Jason or the other player, just the developers who tried to provide a fun experience for their customers.

You break any sense of immersion by doing this, and for what? To mine salty tears? Laugh at frustrating other people by taking advantage of things that were never intended?

Other people's sadness doesn't fill me with joy. Other people's frustration doesn't fill me with Joy.

Getting away from a well played Jason because I played well fills me with joy.

The rest is just some bs.

Well this is interesting. I play PvP games for the fun of the mechanics, and Morph trapping is a fun thing to do with the mechanics given to players because it's clever. That IS playing the game, and Morph trapping when it is +EV IS playing well. You guys seriously confuse me. If you want immersion, you should be waiting for the single player game mode. All we have now is a PvP game mode with voice communication and frequent bugs... it's inherently incompatible with immersion. Expecting immersion from it is like expecting a house of cards to maintain its structural integrity long term.
 

1 hour ago, ZooMalfunction said:

And in the process, make the game worse for everyone in it.

Morph trapping is different, in that it relies on outside knowledge that the counselors would never have, and ruins the atmosphere as a result.

I think it improves the game since it gives a method to tank traps and do some repairs without an expected instant death grab punish when your team refuses to cover you like what happens so often with the abysmal player base in quick play. I can't say I'd be mad if I was Jason and I was Morph trapped. If anything, I'd be slightly impressed, then I'd simply use other nearby Morph spots as counterplay on followup visits to the location.

Counselors would never have a map with constantly updating coordinates for fellow counselors, cars, and the boat. Counselors wouldn't be able to use a 3rd person camera to keep an eye on Jason while not actually looking at him. They wouldn't have a minimap showing Jason's trajectory when he's literally invisible during Shift. They wouldn't have the VHS effect that tells you Jason has used Shift or Morph or a camera that zooms in when Jason is close. And for some reason, that Jason guy is a living stereo blasting tense or chiptune music unless he uses Stalk. This game has a myriad of foundational mechanics giving counselors outside knowledge they would never have.

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3 hours ago, bewareofbears said:

Why do you dress up like a helicopter pilot @Pappus?

I'd be bothered by this if it were something happening every game but I haven't run into it yet myself. Also, it seems like a minor annoyance more than anything.

The room I make the videos in is largely empty so the microphone on the webcam is no good -> wireless headset and I wanted to see first if the whiteboard guides are something I want to commit to before I invest into professional equipment for it. Either way the commentator outfit is something I can get behind so it doesn't bother me.

For obvious reasons you don't see this happening, because stuff is generally only known after I posted about it. Wether you like it or not is a different matter. Once the webpage for the grid goes up you will see this a lot more.

 

8 minutes ago, Ediconeg said:

I've never seen anyone look like more of a douche than this guy.

I love you too honey.

57 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

lol @Pappus is such a tearing bag of shit...

Why do you ping me just for an insult? I don't care what you think about me enough to warrant a ping.

 

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Okay... I would maybe understand, if this game was designed for some ranked high level play, that these tactics would be "needed" because everyone on higher ranks would be a bunch of try-hards who would use them.

But this game was not designed to be played such way. Everyone plays with everyone no matter their skills and experience... this game is meant to be played for fun, not to frustrate everyone else if someone chooses to use these tactics anywhere in public matches.

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3 hours ago, I ❤️ A.J. said:

I've seen counselor's placing a bear trap on the fuse box.  Apparently, it prevents Jason from trapping the box, as an item is already taking up that place.  Seems like a viable option, because then when you go to the fuse box, you can move the bear trap and work around it without burning a pocket knife or eating the Jason trap.

you have to be damn quick to do this. He ususally morphs their first and traps the fuse within about 1 min of the game starting

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16 minutes ago, Survival said:

Okay... I would maybe understand, if this game was designed for some ranked high level play, that these tactics would be "needed" because everyone on higher ranks would be a bunch of try-hards who would use them.

But this game was not designed to be played such way. Everyone plays with everyone no matter their skills and experience... this game is meant to be played for fun, not to frustrate everyone else if someone chooses to use these tactics anywhere in public matches.

That is funny, because the match before the girl collaborated with Jason to kill me to increase her survival chance. The very girl whining about cheating in this clip and I was shot by another guy that was doing useless shit after pointing out that all he has to do is shoot Jason and put in the fuel. He chose to kill me instead.

Clearly there seems to be a rule here: Gamers have the most fun at the expense of other gamers.

They had no beef shooting me dead for fun and giggles and throwing the game away for everyone else. During the match where I pummeled Jason into nothingness more trolling was going on, but certainly I must be the one reasonable protecting their little group fun by not using my knowledge, because they are casuals not even understanding the depth of the game.

Just stick to the golden rule of gaming and enjoy the game for yourself. Their whining is funny, because the skill I showcase is so far off that they can't distinguish it from hacks any longer. I like it that way.

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Am I the only one sick of reading Pap-smear pat himself on TNT back in every post.  I hate it when my iPad logs me out because otherwise his posts are hidden from my view. 

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1 hour ago, Pappus said:

The room I make the videos in is largely empty so the microphone on the webcam is no good -> wireless headset and I wanted to see first if the whiteboard guides are something I want to commit to before I invest into professional equipment for it. Either way the commentator outfit is something I can get behind so it doesn't bother me.

For obvious reasons you don't see this happening, because stuff is generally only known after I posted about it. Wether you like it or not is a different matter. Once the webpage for the grid goes up you will see this a lot more.

 

I love you too honey.

Why do you ping me just for an insult? I don't care what you think about me enough to warrant a ping.

 

I'm not really all that bothered, like I said. Strategy guides and walkthroughs are pretty common in gaming and they're mostly made up of using flaws in the game's design to advance. I've used things like this for ridiculous trophies in non-multiplayer games where there is a place you can hide and shoot and not die, etc. My only suggestion is to not trick yourself into thinking this is some kind of high-level of play or technique. It's just a very simple exploit of poor game design. This stuff being pointed out or exploited is helpful too as developers will see it or hear about it and usually improve the game so it's not as easily exploitable.

If this reaches Packaknack roof glitching levels, then I'll be bothered.

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1 hour ago, 7theye said:

you have to be damn quick to do this. He ususally morphs their first and traps the fuse within about 1 min of the game starting

This is true.  And it does seem like Jason does go there first thing.

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2 hours ago, Pappus said:

That is funny, because the match before the girl collaborated with Jason to kill me to increase her survival chance. The very girl whining about cheating in this clip and I was shot by another guy that was doing useless shit after pointing out that all he has to do is shoot Jason and put in the fuel. He chose to kill me instead.

Clearly there seems to be a rule here: Gamers have the most fun at the expense of other gamers.

They had no beef shooting me dead for fun and giggles and throwing the game away for everyone else. During the match where I pummeled Jason into nothingness more trolling was going on, but certainly I must be the one reasonable protecting their little group fun by not using my knowledge, because they are casuals not even understanding the depth of the game.

Just stick to the golden rule of gaming and enjoy the game for yourself. Their whining is funny, because the skill I showcase is so far off that they can't distinguish it from hacks any longer. I like it that way.

Oh I did not mean any exact match in particular. I meant it in the most general way... I certainly would be extremely frustrated if I joined a public match and people started using all these tactics on me, that is all. I already had to deal with people "glitching" through traps and let me tell you it is sucks the fun out of the game when you have no idea what is happening and how.

If people do it in private matches with other like-minded people that is fine. But I absolutely cannot understand when such level of play and meta-gaming is used in public matches.

There will always be toxic people and TKing people. I cannot count how many times I started a game and got team killed within 1-2 minutes. But I just leave the game, find another lobby and try again.

I just cannot bring myself to using these tactics etc. in any game, let alone one like this.

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This isn't exactly an exploit, but it is borderline foul play. It doesn't make much of a difference if Jason gets stuck in a trap when morphing because it only takes a second or two to get out of it; traps are most effective at buying you time to get away and if Jason has only just morphed to your location then you've got more time than you'd have if you were running away from him.

I would say it is a rather cheap 'tactic' to use and I'd also say there are way better uses for bear traps than plonking them out in the open at a place Jason may or may not appear.

We're all aware of how highly Pappus regards himself but rules are rules and I wouldn't be a fair mod if I bent the rules for specific users, so @AldermachXI please don't insult other members :)

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6 hours ago, bewareofbears said:

I'm not really all that bothered, like I said. Strategy guides and walkthroughs are pretty common in gaming and they're mostly made up of using flaws in the game's design to advance. I've used things like this for ridiculous trophies in non-multiplayer games where there is a place you can hide and shoot and not die, etc. My only suggestion is to not trick yourself into thinking this is some kind of high-level of play or technique. It's just a very simple exploit of poor game design. This stuff being pointed out or exploited is helpful too as developers will see it or hear about it and usually improve the game so it's not as easily exploitable.

If this reaches Packaknack roof glitching levels, then I'll be bothered.

Yes everything is always easy to swallow, when something else chews it for you. It certainly isn't high level, obviously everyone knows about it since it is so apparent how morph works. Yet somehow I never saw another soul put down a morphtrap in 3 months. I get called a cheater the absolute majority of the time I employ the traps, because it is so apparent how morph works right?

The massive amount of people telling me how they didn't even morph there etc is all imaginary and all this although I explained how morph works pretty much the day the game was released, while people even in this very forum denied it since they could "easily" and "skillfully" morph on top of people.

So yes I am not gonna trick myself into believing that this technique is high level at all. It is in fact so low that basically everyone always knew about it and it was just beneath them to use it ;)

There is a reason the F13 basically has no content creators left. This forum is a big part of it.

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