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4 Strengths & Weaknesses Overhaul Version 3.0

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In light of the reveal of Part 4 Jason, here is my thread about Jason having 4 strengths and weaknesses, now updated to Version 3.0. I've changed many things, take a look.

 

Before going into the list, some fundamental changes:

 

New Strengths & Weaknesses

Fear:

How quickly each Jason raises counselor fear.

  • Neutral Fear: Original Fear rate.
  • Fear Strength: 2x fear gain rate.

 

Rage:
How quickly each Jason gains rage ability. Includes the Rage timer and how much the meter fills up with each counselor attack.

  • Neutral Rage: Original Rage gain rate
  • +Rage: Successful attacks against Jason have 1.5x faster Rage gain rate. Rage unlocks at 12 minutes as opposed to 15 minutes normally. Additionally, breakable fences can be broken simply by being walked through. Doors and walls that are damaged enough or fragile enough to be destroyed upon the next hit can optionally be "raged" through for the final blow.

 

Modified Strengths & Weaknesses

Stalk:
Stalk now removes Jason's minimap icon when active, except when spotted by a flare. All sounds related to Jason's activities(moving, setting traps, picking up throwing knives) are muted when in stalk.

 

Sense:

After toggling Sense on then off, the meter no longer immediately recharges. The meter remains at its current position. To fully recharge, Sense must be allowed to fully deplete.

 

Stun Resistance:
In addition to Stun Resistance as it already stands, now consecutive stuns against Jason build up his stun resistance(makes the stuns shorter) the more he gets stunned, up to a point, for a limited time frame. This would "cool down" to normal stun resistance while not getting attacked. Think of it as a meter, similar to the struggle meter. It is dependent on each Jason's stun resistance, as follows:

  • -Stun Resistance: Minor stun resistance buff after a few consecutive stuns for a short time.
  • Neutral Stun Resistance: Moderate stun resistance buff after a few consecutive stuns for a longer time.
  • +Stun Resistance: Bigger stun resistance buff after a few consecutive stuns for an even longer time.

 

Grip Strength:

Grabs now inflict damage onto counselors. Damage varies based on each counselor's Strength stat, and can be additionally reduced by the Thick Skinned perk. Considering counselors to have 100 "points" worth of health, it is as follows:

  • -Grip Strength: Zero damage.
  • Normal Grip Strength: 5% damage.
  • +Grip Strength: 10% damage.

 


And now for the list. Credit to @bewareofbears for the foundation for Roy's stats.

EDIT: I changed Roy's stat's to reflect the officially listed stats with 2 additions of my own.

Credit to @NoOneK9503 as the inspiration for the Uber Jason stats(I changed a couple of them though).

I am open to feedback. If you believe some of these need changing then let me know and why you feel that way.

 

Jason Overhaul List


Part 2:

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Can Run                                               - Shift

+ Traps                                                    - Defense

+ Morph                                                  - Water Speed

+ Sense                                                   - Grip Strength

 

Part 2 Added Pros & Cons

  • +Sense: Added to reflect the "hunter" aspect of the character.
  • -Grip Strength: Added to represent a "weaker" Jason from part 2. Jason fought Paul hand-to-hand and did not kill him.

   

Part 3

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Can Run                                               - Stun Resistance

+ Weapon Strength                               - Sense

+ Grip Strength                                      - Stalk

+ Throwing Knives                                - Water Speed

 

Part 3 Added Pros & Cons

  • +Throwing Knives - Added to improve versatility.
  • -Water Speed - It was Part 3's weakness in the beta, and it makes sense because in the film Part 3 didn't do anything in water.


Part 4

 

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Can Run                                               - Traps

+ Weapon Strength                               - Shift

+ Destruction                                         - Grip Strength

+ Stalk                                                     - Less Hit Points

 

Part 4 Changed Pros & Cons

  • -Water Speed: Removed to improve map control slightly. In its place are -Less HP and -Grip Strength to make him more vulnerable in combat to better reflect the film.
  • +Stalk: Reflects the stealthier than average portrayal of Jason in part 4.

 

Part 5(Roy)

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Throwing Knives                                - Defense

+ Stalk                                                     - Grip Strength

+ Can Run                                               - Stun Resistance

+ Traps                                                    - Morph

 

Part 5 Added Pros & Cons

+Traps - Added because Roy used a lot of improvised methods.

-Morph - Added to counter Roy's high map control from the knives and traps.


Part 6

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Throwing Knives                                - Defense

+ Sense                                                   - Can't Run

+ Shift                                                     - Morph

+ Grip Strength                                      - Stalk

 

Part 6 Added Pros & Cons

  • +Grip Strength - Added because it's a zombie Jason and to allow for flexibility with environmental kills.
  • -Stalk - Added because as Part 6 Jason plays in the current game Stalk is not frequently used anyway. Additionally he was slightly less sneaky in that film.


Part 7

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Sense                                                   - Can't Run

+ Water Speed                                       - Traps

+ Grip Strength                                      - Stun Resistance

+ Fear                                                      - Morph

 

Part 7 Changed Pros & Cons

  • +Fear - Added to control counselor stamina by more easily keeping it depleted. Twice the Fear accumulation rate.
  • -Shift - Removed to have a stronger land presence. -Stun Resistance is also more accurate to the film.
  • -Morph - Added to balance out high water mobility and Shift's moderate land mobility.


Part 8

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Water Speed                                       - Sense

+ Destruction                                         - Can't Run

+ Stalk                                                     - Grip Strength

+ Morph                                                  - Stun Resistance

 

Part 8 Changed Pros & Cons

  • +Morph - Added to better reflect the film. Allows Part 8 to have more map control.
  • -Stun Resistance - Added to reduce his close range effectiveness when given the extra map control.


Part 9

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Stalk                                                     - Can't Run

+ Stun Resistance                                 - Less Hit Points

+ Shift                                                     - Traps

+ Weapon Strength                              - Sense

 

Part 9 Added Pros & Cons

  • +Weapon Strength - Added to better reflect the film. The kills were brutal.
  • -Sense Duration - Reflects the film because Jason lost track of the FBI agent at the start.


Savini

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Shift                                                     - Can't Run

+ Weapon Strength                              - Water Speed

+ Destruction                                        - Grip Strength

+ Fear                                                     - Stun Resistance

 

Savini Added Pros & Cons

  • +Fear - Added because he's fresh out of hell and damn if that ain't scary.
  • -Stun Resistance - Added to counter Savini's high combat lethality.


Jason X

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Stalk                                                     - Can't Run

+ Weapon Strength                               - Shift

+ Morph                                                  - Sense

+ Throwing Knives                                - Traps


Uber Jason

PROS                                                       CONS

+ Rage                                                     - Can't Run

+ Stun Resistance                                 - Shift

+ Weapon Strength                               - Stalk

+ Destruction                                         - Water Speed

 

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On 8/16/2017 at 11:54 PM, bewareofbears said:

Interesting ideas. I really want silent footsteps in stalk.

That actually would be something I'd really like to have. Had a buddy the other night say, "I know you're there, I can hear you moving." Despite being completely careful about creeping up to his cabin and setting up a great ambush outside the front window he was getting ready to climb out of.

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I really like all of these ideas. Having 4 strengths and weaknesses is important to give increasing amount of different Jasons more varied "playstyles". Only thing i would change is to give Uber Jason +Destruction. When i see Uber Jason i always think of "Tank Jason".

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5 hours ago, Mr. HK 92 said:

I really like all of these ideas. Having 4 strengths and weaknesses is important to give increasing amount of different Jasons more varied "playstyles". Only thing i would change is to give Uber Jason +Destruction. When i see Uber Jason i always think of "Tank Jason".

You are right. If Uber Jason has weak Stalk, Shift, and Rage, he needs to be able to get into houses more quickly. Good catch. I also made a few minor edits to the OP.

I know everybody want silent footsteps in Stalk, I wanted it since the start. But making it silent across the board isn't as interesting as having another layer of depth by making it dependent on each Jason's stalk strength, so that's why I came up with the 3 tiers.

Oh and be a pal and make sure I don't have to bump my own thread. ;)

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Good ideas.

In order for some of the existing strengths/weaknesses to be worthwhile. They should be overhauled a little bit.

The idea of silent footsteps and tiering them and just giving the throwing knives at the start are basic ideas that should be there hopefully soon enough. The rest is gravy.

I still really wish they tinkered with the undead Jasons fast walk speed. Which is what I proposed many moons ago.

+ Fast Walk - Faster than the current undead fast walk...this is a Part 6 feature most likely, but could be added to say Part 8 in exchange for something else or in conjunction with it.

Neutral Fast Walk - As seen by all the current undead Jasons

- Fast Walk - Slower than the normal fast walk, but Jasons with this would have to be compensated with a plus morph or shift or not have them as a weakness whatsoever.

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I have updated the original post to include the official Part 4 Jason stats and made some tweaks to the whole list. The new and modified strengths and weaknesses have also been overhauled slightly.

On 9/20/2017 at 8:01 AM, tyrant666 said:

Good ideas.

In order for some of the existing strengths/weaknesses to be worthwhile. They should be overhauled a little bit.

The idea of silent footsteps and tiering them and just giving the throwing knives at the start are basic ideas that should be there hopefully soon enough. The rest is gravy.

I still really wish they tinkered with the undead Jasons fast walk speed. Which is what I proposed many moons ago.

+ Fast Walk - Faster than the current undead fast walk...this is a Part 6 feature most likely, but could be added to say Part 8 in exchange for something else or in conjunction with it.

Neutral Fast Walk - As seen by all the current undead Jasons

- Fast Walk - Slower than the normal fast walk, but Jasons with this would have to be compensated with a plus morph or shift or not have them as a weakness whatsoever.

I don't think varying walk speeds is necessary. All of the zombie Jasons have walked slower or faster to some degree. Maybe they could include variable speed based on analog stick tilt? Like Jason walks faster when the stick is pressed all the way and slower when it's just barely tilted.

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15 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I have updated the original post to include the official Part 4 Jason stats and made some tweaks to the whole list. The new and modified strengths and weaknesses have also been overhauled slightly.

I don't think varying walk speeds is necessary. All of the zombie Jasons have walked slower or faster to some degree. Maybe they could include variable speed based on analog stick tilt? Like Jason walks faster when the stick is pressed all the way and slower when it's just barely tilted.

First, only Dan Bradley/C. J. Graham walked fast. Kane Hodder walked very slow and breathed too (specially in Part 7).

And last, all Jasons with no exception, can walk or slowly walk by doing what said now.

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2 hours ago, NoOneK9503 said:

First, only Dan Bradley/C. J. Graham walked fast. Kane Hodder walked very slow and breathed too (specially in Part 7).

And last, all Jasons with no exception, can walk or slowly walk by doing what said now.

I suppose you're right. We can kind of already get the slow & fast walk from the movies with the walk system now. Any thoughts on the updated OP?

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1 minute ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Any thoughts on the updated OP?

Pardon me but, what is an OP?

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15 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Original Post. The first post in this thread. It's been changed to reflect new ideas and the new Part 4 Jason stats.

Perfect. Not only you fixed what was bothering me (-Water Speed), but added +Stalk too.

Also, will you add Retro Jason too? He will be taken out and will become a new playable Jason.

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2 minutes ago, NoOneK9503 said:

Perfect. Not only you fixed what was bothering me (-Water Speed), but added +Stalk too.

Also, will you add Retro Jason too? He will be taken out and will become a new playable Jason.

I don't know enough about Retro Jason, but I would say he'd be a zombie Jason because Part 7 was on the cover of that game. Would probably have +Water Speed too because I hear he was fast in water for that game.

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30 minutes ago, NoOneK9503 said:

@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow I didn't like the changes to Defense, Grip Strength and Stun Resistance. I don't think they'll work. But the Destruction and Throwing Knives changes were great!

Can you elaborate on why you think the changes to Defense, Grip Strength, and Stun Resistance wouldn't be good?

EDIT: I've further edited the topic to include expanded ideas. I'll list it here for your convenience:

Quote

 

Jason's "guard meter" as one would call it is always slowly recharging. If Jason's guard is broken, the stun chance of that particular attack is 1/2 of what it would be if the attack had connected when Jason was not blocking. The guard meter begins recharging 3 seconds after a successful guard break

Assuming no perks are used, if Kenny, whose attributes are all level 5, attacks Jason with an Axe, the Jason's defense rating is as follows:

  • -Defense: Can block 4 axe attacks from Kenny in a 13 second window. Depleted Guard meter fully restores in 11 seconds.
  • Neutral Defense: Can block 6 axe attacks from Kenny in a 13 second window. Depleted Guard meter fully restores in 9 seconds.
  • +Defense: Can block 8 axe attacks from Kenny in a 13 second window. Depleted Guard meter fully restores in 7 seconds.

Perks that alter damage and higher strength attributes can reduce the number of attacks needed to break Jason's block. Luck may or may not be included for a "critical hit" dice roll per se. I haven't decided yet. Critical hits would do 13% more damage if they become a factor. Every counselor could get critical hits but higher Luck would increase their chance of occurring.

 

 

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9 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Can you elaborate on why you think the changes to Defense, Grip Strength, and Stun Resistance wouldn't be good?

EDIT: I've further edited the topic to include expanded ideas. I'll list it here for your convenience:

 

@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow

Your suggestion of those 3 mechanics I've mentioned above fits the "do not fix what it's not broken" phrase. Your ideas aren't bad, but I feel like some of them are unnecessary. 

First, the Defense stat. I think the original mechanics is fine. Why? Because when Jason is blocking in Combat Stance, he has a probability to successfully block attacks. When a Jason have a -Defense weakness, he'll take more successful hits (meaning that even though he's blocking, he'll still receive damage like he never blocked in first place, but he'll not get stunned or knocked down). This encourages people to not use this kind of Jason for combat. And for me, that's totally fine and acceptable.

Second, the Stun Resistance stat. This mechanic determines if Jason will get stunned (aka flinched without a recovery bar) or not. This idea of yours encourages people to make Jason a punching bag, independant if the Stun Resistance stat is a weakness of a strength. Just for them to finally give up after Jason was hit 4 or 5 times.

And last, Grip Strength. I honestly think this stat need more effects than the current one because Jason can execute counselors instantly with Choke or Saitama Puch (sorry for the pun). But this is not the right way to go. I mean, being punished because I've managed do survive a bit longer??? Heck, even the Luck stat rewards you for doing this. You could change this by making the Grab remove Stamina WHEN he grabs a counselor and then the Luck stat determines how much Stamina they win back after breaking free.

Edited by NoOneK9503
Sharing my ideas

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@NoOneK9503 Ok I will think it over. For Defense I was thinking that it's kind of unfair that Jason's guard can't be broken. You say he still takes damage but I've yet to see Jason get unmasked while he was blocking. I thought to be more fair without being cheap Jason's guard should be able to be worn down until it breaks. The "guard meter" is always replenishing so it would require consistent attacks to finally break through it.

For Stun Resistance, I thought if Jason's guard is going to get broken, then he needs a counter to that by getting a little bit of extra stun resistance. This was to prevent "chain stuns" where he gets stunned over and over and can't stop it. The extra stun resistance is always slowly depleting so he would only have this extra stun resistance for a few seconds, just enough to get him out of a tight spot but no more. Counselors wouldn't have to "give up" after a few hits, they would just wait a few seconds for him to  become vulnerable again.

I could just remove the grip strength portion. I'm not entirely sure about it but I figured Jason's grip needed more impact on gameplay than it does now. Maybe it can increase fear levels. That way you still have enough stamina to run away but grip would do something more than it already does.

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53 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

@NoOneK9503 Ok I will think it over. For Defense I was thinking that it's kind of unfair that Jason's guard can't be broken. You say he still takes damage but I've yet to see Jason get unmasked while he was blocking. I thought to be more fair without being cheap Jason's guard should be able to be worn down until it breaks. The "guard meter" is always replenishing so it would require consistent attacks to finally break through it.

For Stun Resistance, I thought if Jason's guard is going to get broken, then he needs a counter to that by getting a little bit of extra stun resistance. This was to prevent "chain stuns" where he gets stunned over and over and can't stop it. The extra stun resistance is always slowly depleting so he would only have this extra stun resistance for a few seconds, just enough to get him out of a tight spot but no more. Counselors wouldn't have to "give up" after a few hits, they would just wait a few seconds for him to  become vulnerable again.

I could just remove the grip strength portion. I'm not entirely sure about it but I figured Jason's grip needed more impact on gameplay than it does now. Maybe it can increase fear levels. That way you still have enough stamina to run away but grip would do something more than it already does.

Here's a proof of my Defense statement:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cEm8Ttlb3C8

See? He was blocking all the time and still got unmasked.

Well, your Stun Resistance suggestion can be good, but only as an added effect, not as an replacement.

And gosh! I loved that new Grip Strength idea! I can just imagine the despair counselor players will have when grabbed! Currently, increased fear happens if you attack and cripple them. But with this new idea, Jasons with +Grip Strength can be deadlier than ever before! (Part 7?)

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41 minutes ago, NoOneK9503 said:

Here's a proof of my Defense statement:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cEm8Ttlb3C8

See? He was blocking all the time and still got unmasked.

Well, your Stun Resistance suggestion can be good, but only as an added effect, not as an replacement.

And gosh! I loved that new Grip Strength idea! I can just imagine the despair counselor players will have when grabbed! Currently, increased fear happens if you attack and cripple them. But with this new idea, Jasons with +Grip Strength can be deadlier than ever before! (Part 7?)

Huh, ok I thought Jason was invulnerable to melee while blocking. Ok then I can remove the defense idea, but maybe a tweak? Ok what if instead of my current idea, consecutive attacks on Jason have a chance to lower his block? Like after they hit him "X" amount of times, he will "un-block" but the player can just block again?

As for the Stun Resistance, yes it was meant as an ADDITION to the stun resistance we already have. I don't like how short the stuns are now, but they were kind of too long in the previous patches, so I was thinking stun times would be in-between those two with the temporary additional stun resistance from my idea.

And I'll switch grip strength to raising fear instead!

EDIT: Original Post now edited.

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I have a suggestion for stun resistance. When Jason gets stunned by firecracker or flaregun, player´s screen and sounds will be modified. This way the player would experience stuns more like how Jason would. I think that screen modifiying effect would be white noise.

- Stun resistance: screen turns to heavy white noise and only firecracker/flaregun sounds are heard. Jason cannot move. (optional) After stun, Jasons abilities would be slightly weaker for, lets say, 15 seconds.
Neutral Stun resistance: White noise is half as heavy compared to above. Can hear other sounds little better. Still cannot move.
+ Stun resistance: only mild audiovisual disturbances. Now Jason can move, but slower than walking speed. Cannot use weapons.

 

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@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow Here I am.

Now, I was thinking about the Grip Strength stat. When you get caught by Jason's Grab, you're practically dead. So first, update your "bodyblocking" idea to the stat change as a cryptic change (not in stat screen).

My suggestion is: increase the +Grip Strength stat Fear gain to 50% (Grip Strength Jasons need to be feared), the Regular Grip Strength to 25% and -Grip Strength to 0%. This and the already in-game "chance to escape Jason's grab" will make Grabs way more of a threat!

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15 minutes ago, NoOneK9503 said:

@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow Here I am.

Now, I was thinking about the Grip Strength stat. When you get caught by Jason's Grab, you're practically dead. So first, update your "bodyblocking" idea to the stat change as a cryptic change (not in stat screen).

My suggestion is: increase the +Grip Strength stat Fear gain to 50% (Grip Strength Jasons need to be feared), the Regular Grip Strength to 25% and -Grip Strength to 0%. This and the already in-game "chance to escape Jason's grab" will make Grabs way more of a threat!

I was just thinking that when counselors are at low composure, it becomes harder to escape. Increased fear upon grabs would effectively make grabs stupidly powerful because it becomes harder to break out at high fear levels. So is it really a good idea? Perhaps instead use the bodyblocking thing to knock counselors out of Jason's grip when counselors hit each other like I said in a couple other threads. That might be just enough to make Grip Strength matter.

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