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1 hour ago, Vincent said:

The game has been hurting itself since launch. People are quitting because there is a major lack of balance in the game, because there are so many game ending bugs in the game and because there are a lot of issues with "intended mechanics" with this game, and because the devs have basically fixed nothing with this game since the start(except, maybe, the problem of counselors being able to back up through walls). Pappus is bringing a lot of value and knowledge to this game, and doing a better job at balancing and enhancing the game than illfonic/gun is.  

 

Would you mind elaborating on where the lack of balance is?

I just want to know a little more about it.

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1 hour ago, Pappus said:

How about the moderation team learns to use respect and stops resorting to rulebending then?

So my post containing this very video was closed as duplicate although it had the blessing of ben which you personally know of. Morphtrapping is referred to as cheap by your moderation team, which should at least try to be as professional as you are.

That there are personal attacks completely unwarranted in that topic is also readable yet they all get away with it because they go my way? Not that I personally care much. I am just sad that you let this type of subjective moderation go by.

Kodiak is as unprofessional as it gets when it comes to modding and of course I understand why you have to defend your colleagues, but dont think that I am the only one that notices. His style of moderation + the aggressive attitude of some forum users made several content creators disappear e.g. Rydog. He was polite and gentle and was helping out the community like no other. Now he is gone from the game as a whole, because of this forum.

All so you can let Kodiak scratch his officer ego.

I tried to convince ben to make a tips/tricks section here to help the beginners out. Instead all you give the beginners is a wall of text with little actual information of how to survive with a plethorra of factually wrong statements. Even if you think some things are exploits at the end of the day most things are just stuff that help out beginners to survive as legitimate as it gets, but to quote a nice guy. You guys burn down a forest, because you don't like a couple of trees in it.

I am unsure what rules you believe have been bended, however I can say that rules are enforced across the board and are enforced consistently and without bias. The video contained within this thread is posted in the bug report section of the forum. It was posted here with the intention of bringing it up as an issue to the developers. It is not posted in such a way to condone use of the exploit. 

An exploit is using anything as a means to provide an advantage over another player. The exploit in this instance uses a mechanic in such a way that it is not functioning as intended. 

As an official forum, we can not allow views that seem like exploits are condoned. That is the reason your thread is still closed and in that message I told you I would re-open it under the condition that the exploits were removed. When Ben gave you the OK to create an advanced players guide I can assume that he was not aware that exploits would be considered advanced player techniques. 

In regard to personal attacks that you have received, I have not seen one report of such attacks from you. Reports are reviewed as come in. If you see something that is in violation of the forum rules you are encouraged to report it using the report feature. 

I am a little confused how you will call the unofficial fan made guide for beginners a "wall of text that contains incorrect information" then suggest a tips and tricks section of the forum. If we were to have a section about that would that not also contain user contributed information that may or may not contain errors? 

I will put out one more hypothetical scenario. You say in the last part of your post that exploits will ultimately help beginners. That may be true in the interim but what happens when those exploits have been patched? That will have relied on exploits and struggle with the game after the fact. That is not really beginner friendly in my opinion. 

In closing, mods are given direction laid out in the rules section of the forum. They do not create the rules they only enforce them. The mods here are trusted which is why they are allowed in that position. I am sorry if some one on the forums was rubbed the wrong way but the rules are the rules and they will be enforced consistently regardless of who is in violation of said rule. 

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Quote

An exploit is using anything as a means to provide an advantage over another player.

Having a brain appears to be an exploit, which would nicely appear to explain much of the posting of the community. 

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15 minutes ago, JPops said:

An exploit is using anything not within the original intentions of the developers as a means to provide an advantage over another player. The exploit in this instance uses a mechanic in such a way that it is not functioning as intended.

I feel that this would be better wording. Great post regardless.

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25 minutes ago, JPops said:

I am unsure what rules you believe have been bended, however I can say that rules are enforced across the board and are enforced consistently and without bias. The video contained within this thread is posted in the bug report section of the forum. It was posted here with the intention of bringing it up as an issue to the developers. It is not posted in such a way to condone use of the exploit. 

An exploit is using anything as a means to provide an advantage over another player. The exploit in this instance uses a mechanic in such a way that it is not functioning as intended. 

As an official forum, we can not allow views that seem like exploits are condoned. That is the reason your thread is still closed and in that message I told you I would re-open it under the condition that the exploits were removed. When Ben gave you the OK to create an advanced players guide I can assume that he was not aware that exploits would be considered advanced player techniques. 

In regard to personal attacks that you have received, I have not seen one report of such attacks from you. Reports are reviewed as come in. If you see something that is in violation of the forum rules you are encouraged to report it using the report feature. 

I am a little confused how you will call the unofficial fan made guide for beginners a "wall of text that contains incorrect information" then suggest a tips and tricks section of the forum. If we were to have a section about that would that not also contain user contributed information that may or may not contain errors? 

I will put out one more hypothetical scenario. You say in the last part of your post that exploits will ultimately help beginners. That may be true in the interim but what happens when those exploits have been patched? That will have relied on exploits and struggle with the game after the fact. That is not really beginner friendly in my opinion. 

In closing, mods are given direction laid out in the rules section of the forum. They do not create the rules they only enforce them. The mods here are trusted which is why they are allowed in that position. I am sorry if some one on the forums was rubbed the wrong way but the rules are the rules and they will be enforced consistently regardless of who is in violation of said rule. 

There is a big difference between a tips/tricks section where everyone can share and a thread that is promoted by the staff to beginners that struggle (F13 twitter) and is hold as the only allowed topic by applying the no duplication rule to anything that remotely comes close to tips/tricks.

I honestly don't understand why you don't see that rulebending is happening here: First guide I post is merged with the beginner topic due to duplicate rule. Next guy posts tips it gets merged, next two tips topics go through straight, next topic from me was not closed because of exploits but again because of duplication rule and then after kodiak demands proof of the conversation with ben he still argues that ben didn't mean a topic but "post it". If even with this you still don't see that Kodiak will bend the rules then there is no convincing you.

You argue, that this is the official game forum. Well there is also the official reddit and an official discord. Guess what that information lands on the official reddit without any complaints and is happily received there. All your blocking does is moving people that want to learn away from the forum even further. This thing is already in a state where people don't come for learning.

In the conversation with ben I specifically stated that the one topic rule creates a too convoluted topic and people will start avoiding it. Now the last post is from july 12th in there. So was I right or not? Or do you think we suddenly don't have beginners anymore?

So yeah if you use the rules to make sure that there is only one guide up, then it better be correct or removed.

By the time the techniques are patched out the time they kept the people afloat allows for changes to be made as the developers see fit. Also the devs might actually have a chance to see something as a good addition if it was used by many without much problems and make it into a feature that doesn't look glitchy. You can call them exploits all you want, but at the end of the day these techniques do not seriously damage the flow of any given game.

The game is in a state where every single match has unintended things used. Be it hitting through doors, blocking stuff you aren't supposed to block etc etc etc. You want to be true to your word, then start removing anything that mentions body blocking, animation cancels, hitting through doors, car surfing and so on, because saying you want these things not discussed and leave this very video here which has several things that you consider exploits in it is a double standard.

Next you can go over to the morphtrapping section and remove all comments about trap blocking objectives, the morphgrap guide itself since that isn't intended either and roll from there.

See the forum is already filled with things you consider exploits anyhow...

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51 minutes ago, Pappus said:

By the time the techniques are patched out the time they kept the people afloat allows for changes to be made as the developers see fit. Also the devs might actually have a chance to see something as a good addition if it was used by many without much problems and make it into a feature that doesn't look glitchy. You can call them exploits all you want, but at the end of the day these techniques do not seriously damage the flow of any given game.

The game is in a state where every single match has unintended things used. Be it hitting through doors, blocking stuff you aren't supposed to block etc etc etc. You want to be true to your word, then start removing anything that mentions body blocking, animation cancels, hitting through doors, car surfing and so on, because saying you want these things not discussed and leave this very video here which has several things that you consider exploits in it is a double standard.

Next you can go over to the morphtrapping section and remove all comments about trap blocking objectives, the morphgrap guide itself since that isn't intended either and roll from there.

See the forum is already filled with things you consider exploits anyhow...

I am wondering, and I mean this in a constructive criticism way, if half the problem here Pappus is presentation.

You say that maybe devs will see these things as a good thing in the game, but your videos often present these things as trolling behaviour. You talk about making people salty and ruining Jason's day, and present videos of how pissed off people get when you employ many of these strategies. While I recognize that as a content provider you are trying to be as entertaining and stylish as possible, it could be that approach that is what makes it hard for people to take it seriously as a strategy. A good strategy is about helping the team and yourself, but rarely are your ideas presented as such any more. Your earlier videos seemed more about team, now you mainly talk about mining salt.

With Kodiak earlier, with me, with several others you come across as combative. It makes people defensive. The same can be said for the videos you make. When you present your ideas as something designed to bother others rather than as ideas to make your play better, people will react accordingly.

It is the same way on the thread. Not going to sugar coat it, some people seem to be attacking you when you aren't even involved in a thread, but you also stoke those flames with the way you speak to and about other people.

I am not trying to attack you, but merely shine a light on something I see. These things coloured the way I interacted with you. The first time we ever interacted was me calling you out for attacking people's intellect. Not a great first meeting I would say. I am not blaming you here, far from it. In any and every interaction there is at least two people and their baggage and reputations if any the other person is aware of. Without me being me, the interaction could not have gone the way it did, and I have to police myself and think about the outcomes I want. You need to do the same.

What do you want Pappus?

How can you get it in the most productive and timely fashion?

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