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With respect, please fix the following exploit/cheat:

There is a bug/exploit that counselors are capitalizing on called "Car Surfing". This bug is detailed/explained here, time stamp included:

The way it works is this: When inside of a vehicle, push the button to exit, then QUICKLY enter combat stance, attack, then cancel the attack with block. If you do this, you will be "floating" inside of the car and can ultimately exit where ever you wish. The only way Jason can counter this is to either shift to the counselor or hope the counselor re-enters the car at a seat that he has access to.

You can also use this technique to get on top of the car and not fall off while the car is being driven, allowing you to also shoot from to roof of the vehicle.

Please fix this bug so we Jason's don't have to deal with this cheaty nonsense.

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Pappus at it again. No doubt he will come up with some reason for why it should not be patched away.

Now, once the button combination that puts you on the roof of the car is patched away, as for just being on the roof of the car at all(such as jumping down from a cliff) I'm not 100% against that. It is quite difficult to do that in real life, but not entirely unfeasible. If they made the counselor slide off after the car approached more than 1/3 top speed, I'd be ok with that.

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On 8/15/2017 at 2:45 PM, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

as for just being on the roof of the car at all(such as jumping down from a cliff) I'm not 100% against that. It is quite difficult to do that in real life, but not entirely unfeasible. If they made the counselor slide off after the car approached more than 1/3 top speed, I'd be ok with that.

Based on your logic, I've been talked into this mechanic, especially with the 1/3rd top speed mechanic nerfing it. It would be a factor in real life that speeding up, slowing down, and any adjustments in speed and turning would apply forces to the counselor on the rooftop that would make it very difficult to stay on top.

In addition, I like Pappus's other content and teachings, I just don't like the cheating or any teaching thereof; Specifically, this,... and body blocking, which he does teach in another video. Body blocking: 1. Makes Jason's traps less effective than they should be and 2. Make pocket knives go further than they should since you don't have to spend them on traps.

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2 hours ago, EspionageCosmo said:

In addition, I like Pappus's other content and teachings, I just don't like the cheating or any teaching thereof; Specifically, this,... and body blocking, which he does teach in another video. Body blocking: 1. Makes Jason's traps less effective than they should be and 2. Make pocket knives go further than they should since you don't have to spend them on traps.

People like Pappus and Rydog do have legitimate strategies and techniques, but they treat all of them equally, be they glitch or not. I don't agree with keeping balance-breaking glitches in for the sake of them becoming part of the meta & gameplay. Stuff like body blocking around traps and "abduction" is just absurd and to treat them as if they should be made into valid mechanics is moronic. It's just sad that the same people that give legitimately good advice also give really sh*tty advice by promoting game-breaking glitches. Pappus and people like him with big youtube and twitch followings should not be promoting glitchy exploity behavior, regardless of whether said glitches have some kind of counter-play.

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2 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

and Rydog do have legitimate strategies and techniques, but they treat all of them equally, be they glitch or not.

Wow. I didn't know Rydog was doing that. I did read all his guides on Steam. Maybe I missed something.

2 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I don't agree with keeping balance-breaking glitches in for the sake of them becoming part of the meta & gameplay.

I agree 100%. The game I want to play is the one the creators intended, and without bugs/glitches... and adjusting that system based on balance related needs. Part of me feels that I will be both amused and disappointed when I see (and we will see them) counselors getting upset that they can't body block anymore now that they've gotten used to being able to do it.

2 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Stuff like body blocking around traps and "abduction" is just absurd.

What is "abduction"? Help me out here. :)

2 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

It's just sad that the same people that give legitimately good advice also give really sh*tty advice by promoting game-breaking glitches. Pappus and people like him with big youtube and twitch followings should not be promoting glitchy exploity behavior, regardless of whether said glitches have some kind of counter-play.

True, true, true, all day long. I agree 100%.

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28 minutes ago, EspionageCosmo said:

Wow. I didn't know Rydog was doing that. I did read all his guides on Steam. Maybe I missed something.

What is "abduction"? Help me out here. :)

Well, Rydog doesn't specifically promote game-breaking cheating to the degree of glitching out of bounds, but he was pro-abduction, ahem "technique," hopefully not anymore. The "abduction" is when Jason grabs and uses Shift at about the same time, I think you grab, then shift very quickly, and then Jason can zoom through the air with the counselor attached to him. This can be used to "abduct" people away from groups and to environmental kills with no way to defend against it. The "counter-play" is to have a pocket knife because the knife used while Jason is Shifting makes the game freak out and Jason dies instantly, probably by falling through the map and through a kill barrier. Yeah, there's no way that was intended, nor should it stay. It's not a "happy accident" kind of bug. It completely destroys the way the game was meant to be played.

 

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3 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

People like Pappus and Rydog do have legitimate strategies and techniques, but they treat all of them equally, be they glitch or not. I don't agree with keeping balance-breaking glitches in for the sake of them becoming part of the meta & gameplay. Stuff like body blocking around traps and "abduction" is just absurd and to treat them as if they should be made into valid mechanics is moronic. It's just sad that the same people that give legitimately good advice also give really sh*tty advice by promoting game-breaking glitches. Pappus and people like him with big youtube and twitch followings should not be promoting glitchy exploity behavior, regardless of whether said glitches have some kind of counter-play.

It baffles me that you still don't understand the rule. There is stuff I do not show, because it breaks the rule that I set to swiftly distinguish bad stuff from good stuff.

Either there is counterplay to it or there is not. No counterplay? I won't post it. Like resetting the skillwheel as any char to get the minimum amount of skillchecks. You don't see that in any of my guides. You won't see duplicating pocket knives, teleporting via traps from me either. That is not seeing everything equal.

All the stuff I post is already thought about in the sense of: What if everyone did this and it was still an okay result. Several ppl carsurfing at once? Weapons will start breaking and they will hit each other very fast. Jasons will git gud and understand how to break car surfing or just flat out ask me.

Bodyblocking traps? Put them in certain shapes there if you really want to deny the objective. See you complain about the bodyblocking trap stuff that I showed involving a teamate. However there is a perfectly fine way to do it by yourself. Did you see me post that? No. I could have, but instead I chose to take the 2-man variant and promote that over the method that lets you do it alone.

The stuff I show is good for the game. Keeps it fresh, adds knowledge and skill.

See I could make a Jason guide that will get them to be a near unstopable force against the players in quickplay, because they are simply too weak. I don't, because most lobbies are already annihilated without a guide that skyrockets Jasons power even further.

You guys might not like certain things that I show, but that doesn't mean that I am hurting the game.

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Just now, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

@Pappus You were fully aware that those types of glitches were not intended but you promoted them anyway. Doesn't matter that you promoted the "less exploitative" version.

Just because something is not intended doesn't mean that it is inherently bad for the game. The things I post are all good additions.

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Just now, Pappus said:

Just because something is not intended doesn't mean that it is inherently bad for the game. The things I post are all good additions.

So if it were up to you you'd keep them in the game?

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2 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

So if it were up to you you'd keep them in the game?

I would fix the button combination of how car surfing is currently done and make it so you can slide out the other side of the car or mount the roof, but I would keep it.

Bodyblocking I would implement in an easy 2-team interaction in a streamlined fashion.

So yeah I would keep it.

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5 minutes ago, Pappus said:

I would fix the button combination of how car surfing is currently done and make it so you can slide out the other side of the car or mount the roof, but I would keep it.

Bodyblocking I would implement in an easy 2-team interaction in a streamlined fashion.

So yeah I would keep it.

We're in agreement of sorts about car surfing. Make it possible to slide off the car based on speed, direction, etc.

A simpler solution to traps would be to allow weapons to trigger traps to get them out of the way. Jason is notified and you're defenseless but the trap is gone. Completely fair. Going entirely around a trap and not alerting Jason and getting to keep any pocket knives you have is hardly fair with the original intentions of the game.

Would you keep "abduction?" Flying through the air like the opening of Evil Dead 2 to insta-envrionment kill someone?

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Just now, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

A simpler solution to traps would be to allow weapons to trigger traps to get them out of the way. Jason is notified and you're defenseless but the trap is gone. Completely fair. Going entirely around a trap without using a pocket knife an not alerting Jason is hardly fair with the original intentions of the game.

Would you keep "abduction?" Flying through the air like the opening of Evil Dead 2 to insta-envrionment kill someone?

Abduction? Yes to buff Jason against groups. Make the shift a good chunk shorter or let it have a bigger wind-up. RIght now abducting someone is just styling him since you can't really just go and abduct someone since it ends the game if he holds a pocketknife you die or if he struggles free manually - which can happen with one of the longer ones.

So reality is abduction gives the ppl tons of chances more than they would normally have. You check them for pocketknifes first, you limp them and then you abduct them. Sometimes you even mess up so you have to wait even more. Not like there are people abducting ppl out of groups.

 

With traps we can argue back and forth. I don't think it is healthy for the game to allow Jason to effectively lockdown objectives against beginners. His single trap is meaningless against any veteran already. Using weapons for disarming... well we might aswell remove the traps from the game then. Weapons are plentiful and you aren't defenseless. You simply go inside the house that is always next to the trap and drop your current weapon next to the trap. Trigger the trap - pick up your old weapon.

Maybe if traps had a cooldown and regenerate upwards, pretty much like knives should we could accept this. Right now the traps are too damaging to beginners for my taste in a game that is already very frustrating for them.

 

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@Pappus Let's assume in a best-case scenario the abduction combo is made legit. Let's have a thought experiment. In this scenario, pocket knives no longer glitch the game into insta-killing Jason, they just break off the animation. The thing is,

1. That never happened in the films. The purpose of the game is to emulate the "F13 movie experience" in an interactive way.

2. It would give yet another tool to Jason that would be too overpowered. It's nearly like shooting fish in a barrel if you can just snatch everyone up and take them away from teammates. It also renders grip strength and composure pointless if Jason can fly at mach 3 to any environmental kill that he wants.

I think that a better way to deal with groups is not with "abductions" but improved combat mechanics. Give Jason a quick-step dodge move, and a horizontal sweeping attack that reaches a wide radius around him. Maybe even lock-on with throwing knives while in combat stance. All better options to deal with group attacks than combining abilities that weren't meant to be combined(grab and shift).

As for traps, ok forget the weapons. How about a skill check? If you mess up it snaps shut on you. Risk/reward based on player skill that doesn't take advantage in flaws in the game's programming.

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7 hours ago, Pappus said:

It baffles me that you still don't understand the rule. There is stuff I do not show, because it breaks the rule that I set to swiftly distinguish bad stuff from good stuff.

Either there is counterplay to it or there is not. No counterplay? I won't post it. Like resetting the skillwheel as any char to get the minimum amount of skillchecks. You don't see that in any of my guides. You won't see duplicating pocket knives, teleporting via traps from me either. That is not seeing everything equal.

All the stuff I post is already thought about in the sense of: What if everyone did this and it was still an okay result. Several ppl carsurfing at once? Weapons will start breaking and they will hit each other very fast. Jasons will git gud and understand how to break car surfing or just flat out ask me.

Bodyblocking traps? Put them in certain shapes there if you really want to deny the objective. See you complain about the bodyblocking trap stuff that I showed involving a teamate. However there is a perfectly fine way to do it by yourself. Did you see me post that? No. I could have, but instead I chose to take the 2-man variant and promote that over the method that lets you do it alone.

The stuff I show is good for the game. Keeps it fresh, adds knowledge and skill.

See I could make a Jason guide that will get them to be a near unstopable force against the players in quickplay, because they are simply too weak. I don't, because most lobbies are already annihilated without a guide that skyrockets Jasons power even further.

You guys might not like certain things that I show, but that doesn't mean that I am hurting the game.

You are hurting the game. I told you about this before; whether there's a 'counter play' or not does not matter. You are utilising questionable mechanics to give yourself an advantage, which constitutes exploiting. 'Abduction' and 'car surfing' are exploits. Don't try and pass exploits off as 'skill' or 'knowledge'.

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1 minute ago, Kodiak said:

You are hurting the game. I told you about this before; whether there's a 'counter play' or not does not matter. You are utilising questionable mechanics to give yourself an advantage, which constitutes exploiting. 'Abduction' and 'car surfing' are exploits. Don't try and pass exploits off as 'skill' or 'knowledge'.

If there is counterplay there is no big advantage but that might be too massive for you to understand.

Arguing with me about these things kodiac is like a random dude on the street picking a fight with a nuclear scientists about fusion. That is directly comparing my knowledge about this genre with pretty much everyone in this forum including you.

I have created the most advanced meta for months to hold in 3 out of 4 games (evolve, dbd, deceit, f13) my playtime in this genre is somewhere around the 3k+ region + several thousand more hours debating, concluding and finding out. You can safely assume that I know a metric shit ton more about what is good for these games than you do. You can also trust that I cannot have an interest in blowing up the games that I cover, because that would be sabotaging my own work.

Wether you like it or not I am pretty much an expert for this genre and you can of course try hard and find someone with more knowledge. Does that mean that I do not make mistakes? No of course not, but it means that when I say something it comes from a very different understanding.

Do you think all the messages I get are praise? No some people contact me stating that I killed the game for them, because of this or that. When I put it down to a ratio then it would be somewhere in the ballpark of 100 thank you to 1 fuck you. So no King Casul I am not hurting the game. The game is hurting itself for various reasons and is by now pretty much a dead fish already. Very much to my disliking, but it isn't for the lack of trying on my part.

How about you do what you are best at and make up rules to make morphtrapping disappear. Certainly it is a duplicate post of some sort and while you are at it those personal attacks against me in that very topic clearly are out of hand wouldn't you think?

Oh I forgot you are as biased a mod as it gets ;)

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There's no personal attacks going on here. I am telling you straight up that you are cheating, but you still refuse to listen to me. Consequently, I will remove any of your content that promotes exploiting. The rest of your post is pretty much more of the same stuff you post all the time. As I said in my last post, don't try and post cheats under the ruse of 'this is advanced knowledge'. You are cheating. How many hours you have invested into the game doesn't matter; you should recognise exploits when you see them.

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Wow, just wow. I think @Pappusmay be overestimating the value of video game knowledge. While it might be fun for an ego stroke, that is all it is. 

I also think it important to recognize the difference between knowledge and understanding. I know a guy who can fix a small engine, but has no idea how they work. He was shown how, and has done it a hundred times, but he hasn't the slightest idea how engines work. I on the other hand cannot fix a damn thing, but I know each and every part of an engine and how they work alone and together to create the process. 

I have said you have helped my game play, and that is true. I want to be clear about something though. You did not help me because you are smarter than me, or even smart (though you might be). You helped me by speeding up the learning curve. 

I am not a dumb person. I am not going to sit here and say I am any smarter than anyone else, because posts on a message board are a small sample size of the totality of a person's intellect, but hey, I am generally viewed as a smart person, so I will take it. That means I learned from you because you played the game more. That is it man. You played a lot, so I watched what you learned from that and incorporated what I liked. This meant I did not have to trial and error my way through things. You did it for me. 

My dog learns from his mistakes. 

Intellegent people learn from the mistakes of others. 

Don't your trial and error learning for some kind of massive intellect that is so superior than others for anything more than it is man. I am grateful for your effort, but maybe you might want to back off insulting people like me. I may not have the hours played, or the hours philosophized of you, but ten minutes of watching you taught me everything you know. I have added your knowledge to mine, and to others and that has made me knowledgeable in the ways of the game. I will now play more to gain the understanding and experience. 

Thank you, but your services are no longer required. 

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@Pappus you are free to disagree with any member of the forum however, like everyone else you will do so without resorting to name calling or gauging "intellect" disagreements will be handled as such and will not resort to such rhetoric. Forum moderators will moderate content as they see fit. If it exploits a mechanic than it will be removed from the forums. Whether you promote that as advanced tactics is irrelevant. Please be respectful in your responses to both members and moderators. Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, Pappus said:

Arguing with me about these things kodiac is like a random dude on the street picking a fight with a nuclear scientists about fusion. That is directly comparing my knowledge about this genre with pretty much everyone in this forum including you.

 

lol...delusional.

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2 hours ago, Definitelynotjason said:

Wow, just wow. I think @Pappusmay be overestimating the value of video game knowledge. While it might be fun for an ego stroke, that is all it is. 

I also think it important to recognize the difference between knowledge and understanding. I know a guy who can fix a small engine, but has no idea how they work. He was shown how, and has done it a hundred times, but he hasn't the slightest idea how engines work. I on the other hand cannot fix a damn thing, but I know each and every part of an engine and how they work alone and together to create the process. 

I have said you have helped my game play, and that is true. I want to be clear about something though. You did not help me because you are smarter than me, or even smart (though you might be). You helped me by speeding up the learning curve. 

I am not a dumb person. I am not going to sit here and say I am any smarter than anyone else, because posts on a message board are a small sample size of the totality of a person's intellect, but hey, I am generally viewed as a smart person, so I will take it. That means I learned from you because you played the game more. That is it man. You played a lot, so I watched what you learned from that and incorporated what I liked. This meant I did not have to trial and error my way through things. You did it for me. 

My dog learns from his mistakes. 

Intellegent people learn from the mistakes of others. 

Don't your trial and error learning for some kind of massive intellect that is so superior than others for anything more than it is man. I am grateful for your effort, but maybe you might want to back off insulting people like me. I may not have the hours played, or the hours philosophized of you, but ten minutes of watching you taught me everything you know. I have added your knowledge to mine, and to others and that has made me knowledgeable in the ways of the game. I will now play more to gain the understanding and experience. 

Thank you, but your services are no longer required. 

You brought up intellect. I didn't. I didn't say I am smarter than the rest, I said I have more experience and knowledge - which I do and both have nothing to do with intellect. Intellect is merely the clockspeed at which you process information or make conclusions. So if what I wrote makes you feel insulted I would advice to understand the point I am trying to bring across a bit more. Additionally if you think you can absorb F13 as a system in 10 minutes you don't give the game enough credit. It still has a lot of nuances and depth to it.

I can tell you one thing about intelligent people though. Those that truly are don't like being called intelligent for various reasons.

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3 hours ago, Kodiak said:

You are hurting the game. I told you about this before; whether there's a 'counter play' or not does not matter. You are utilising questionable mechanics to give yourself an advantage, which constitutes exploiting. 'Abduction' and 'car surfing' are exploits. Don't try and pass exploits off as 'skill' or 'knowledge'.

The game has been hurting itself since launch. People are quitting because there is a major lack of balance in the game, because there are so many game ending bugs in the game and because there are a lot of issues with "intended mechanics" with this game, and because the devs have basically fixed nothing with this game since the start(except, maybe, the problem of counselors being able to back up through walls). Pappus is bringing a lot of value and knowledge to this game, and doing a better job at balancing and enhancing the game than illfonic/gun is.  

 

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43 minutes ago, JPops said:

@Pappus you are free to disagree with any member of the forum however, like everyone else you will do so without resorting to name calling or gauging "intellect" disagreements will be handled as such and will not resort to such rhetoric. Forum moderators will moderate content as they see fit. If it exploits a mechanic than it will be removed from the forums. Whether you promote that as advanced tactics is irrelevant. Please be respectful in your responses to both members and moderators. Thanks. 

How about the moderation team learns to use respect and stops resorting to rulebending then?

So my post containing this very video was closed as duplicate although it had the blessing of ben which you personally know of. Morphtrapping is referred to as cheap by your moderation team, which should at least try to be as professional as you are.

That there are personal attacks completely unwarranted in that topic is also readable yet they all get away with it because they go my way? Not that I personally care much. I am just sad that you let this type of subjective moderation go by.

Kodiak is as unprofessional as it gets when it comes to modding and of course I understand why you have to defend your colleagues, but dont think that I am the only one that notices. His style of moderation + the aggressive attitude of some forum users made several content creators disappear e.g. Rydog. He was polite and gentle and was helping out the community like no other. Now he is gone from the game as a whole, because of this forum.

All so you can let Kodiak scratch his officer ego.

I tried to convince ben to make a tips/tricks section here to help the beginners out. Instead all you give the beginners is a wall of text with little actual information of how to survive with a plethorra of factually wrong statements. Even if you think some things are exploits at the end of the day most things are just stuff that help out beginners to survive as legitimate as it gets, but to quote a nice guy. You guys burn down a forest, because you don't like a couple of trees in it.

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1 hour ago, Pappus said:

You brought up intellect. I didn't. I didn't say I am smarter than the rest, I said I have more experience and knowledge - which I do and both have nothing to do with intellect. Intellect is merely the clockspeed at which you process information or make conclusions. So if what I wrote makes you feel insulted I would advice to understand the point I am trying to bring across a bit more. Additionally if you think you can absorb F13 as a system in 10 minutes you don't give the game enough credit. It still has a lot of nuances and depth to it.

I can tell you one thing about intelligent people though. Those that truly are don't like being called intelligent for various reasons.

Dude, you directly said you were smarter than everyone else. You directly said you were smarter than Kodiak. You said we were all not as smart as you. YOU brought up intellect, allow me top enlighten you:

3 hours ago, Pappus said:

If there is counterplay there is no big advantage but that might be too massive for you to understand.

Arguing with me about these things kodiac is like a random dude on the street picking a fight with a nuclear scientists about fusion. That is directly comparing my knowledge about this genre with pretty much everyone in this forum including you.

I have created the most advanced meta for months to hold in 3 out of 4 games (evolve, dbd, deceit, f13) my playtime in this genre is somewhere around the 3k+ region + several thousand more hours debating, concluding and finding out. You can safely assume that I know a metric shit ton more about what is good for these games than you do. You can also trust that I cannot have an interest in blowing up the games that I cover, because that would be sabotaging my own work.

Wether you like it or not I am pretty much an expert for this genre and you can of course try hard and find someone with more knowledge. Does that mean that I do not make mistakes? No of course not, but it means that when I say something it comes from a very different understanding.

 

1. Intellect is not how fast you process, or rather not just speed but rather how well you internalize, generalize and adapt to knew knowledge. My point was exactly what you just said. Knowledge is not smarts or even UNDERSTANDING. As you said several times. You said you understand the game on a level we do not. If you hasd merely said I know more about the game you would be right in your response. What you said was you understand the game better. That is intellect, that is calling people less intellegent than you.

2. I didn't say I learned everything about the game in 10 minutes. I said I learned everything you had to teach about the game in ten minutes. There is a difference.

3. Your attempt at psychology has failed. Whether or not you are comfortable being called intellegent or not is actually seperate from your actuakl level. It has more to do with your biopsychosocial framework than anything else. People who are smart enough to know they are dumb are also uncomfortable being called smart, 'cause they hate to feel like a fruad.

A careful reread of what I said will bring out the fact I did not call you dumb. I conceeded that you may in fact be smart.

Your point as I saw it was, I understand things well beyond you (Kodiak) and most  if not everyone on this board. I am the expert and the rest of you can just well.... I am going to not speculate on your conclusion. Intellect is about knowing implicit as well as explicit.

And son, you prematurely dropped this... hands you the mic back.

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1 hour ago, Pappus said:

How about the moderation team learns to use respect and stops resorting to rulebending then?

So my post containing this very video was closed as duplicate although it had the blessing of ben which you personally know of. Morphtrapping is referred to as cheap by your moderation team, which should at least try to be as professional as you are.

That there are personal attacks completely unwarranted in that topic is also readable yet they all get away with it because they go my way? Not that I personally care much. I am just sad that you let this type of subjective moderation go by.

Kodiak is as unprofessional as it gets when it comes to modding and of course I understand why you have to defend your colleagues, but dont think that I am the only one that notices. His style of moderation + the aggressive attitude of some forum users made several content creators disappear e.g. Rydog. He was polite and gentle and was helping out the community like no other. Now he is gone from the game as a whole, because of this forum.

All so you can let Kodiak scratch his officer ego.

I tried to convince ben to make a tips/tricks section here to help the beginners out. Instead all you give the beginners is a wall of text with little actual information of how to survive with a plethorra of factually wrong statements. Even if you think some things are exploits at the end of the day most things are just stuff that help out beginners to survive as legitimate as it gets, but to quote a nice guy. You guys burn down a forest, because you don't like a couple of trees in it.

As I said before, you're attempting to bend the rules because you think your 'knowledge' allows you to do so. It will not happen whilst I'm here.

I'm not unprofessional at all; you break the rules or you post stuff condoning exploits and I will deal with you the same way I would if anyone else were to post it. It is not 'subjective' moderation; it is the same for everyone.

Cheats are cheats, regardless of what you call them. Post whatever you want as long as it doesn't break forum rules or promote cheating.

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