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On 8/10/2017 at 0:26 PM, AdrianBlackbear said:

I have success with P7 Jason, but I see where everyone else is coming from. There is definitely a steep learning curve with him and a lot of the people I play with hate P7 because of his weaknesses, but it is all about learning to play around his weaknesses. 

Exactly. He is tough for people who don't use him a lot and for newer players. Once you get into the swing of things, he's certainly not bad, but I guess the better way of putting it is that he is just not good enough at any one thing to fit a particular play style. He is not great at controlling objectives. He is not good at catching up to fleeing counselors. He is quite good at getting through doors (only part 8 and SJ are quicker). If Part 7 had +Destruction he'd be the fastest at breaking in of any Jason due to his faster weapon speed. But I digress. Part 7 is the Joe Average Jason in the split between control and pushing the attack.

If you wanted to make him better at objective control give him no negative to traps and a bonus to morph. It would play well with his super hearing.

If you wanted to make him a better aggressor, give him a bonus to weapon damage or destruction. Either let him hurt counselors more to cripple them or make him the very best at breaking and entering. I would go for either as they have their uses. The shift penalty is livable, but it might be better to let him get into building fast (like scary fast), to offset. If you you break in and relentlessly pursue, the counselors will have a terrible time regenerating stamina. It'll be fight or die. Essentially you could make him the homing missile Jason.

Anyways, back on topic, Part 7 is NOT bad; he is the Kenny of Jason's. He is just the hardest to master...and most gratifying to get an 8/8 with. IMO :D

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I just disagree that he has a learning curve. What sort of things to learn with this Jason that you couldn't learn with any other Jason and do better at your job as a killer? Sure there are things you can learn across all Jasons that benefit them all, but again you can apply them to any other Jason and do fine. I'd just rather he had a style to him, like a 7 trap stalking Jason, or a morphing stalk Jason. Any play style you apply to 7 you could apply to 8, for example, who has much better abilities. 

Sense and grip just come off as extremely awful boosts due to how they both function. They may be constant "boosts" he has access to unlike water speed, but every Jason more or less has these "perks" anyway because of they work. 

I'm not asking he be turned into Savini Jason or anything, just to have a better assortment of pros and cons, instead of the strongest weaknesses and the weakest strengths. Also while I agree -shift can work, I do feel it needs to be offset by some great strengths. I just don't like the idea of zombie Jasons having both Can't run and -shift, but again it could work with the right perks. 

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9 hours ago, VenomSymbiote said:

I just disagree that he has a learning curve. What sort of things to learn with this Jason that you couldn't learn with any other Jason and do better at your job as a killer? Sure there are things you can learn across all Jasons that benefit them all, but again you can apply them to any other Jason and do fine. I'd just rather he had a style to him, like a 7 trap stalking Jason, or a morphing stalk Jason. Any play style you apply to 7 you could apply to 8, for example, who has much better abilities. 

Sense and grip just come off as extremely awful boosts due to how they both function. They may be constant "boosts" he has access to unlike water speed, but every Jason more or less has these "perks" anyway because of they work. 

I'm not asking he be turned into Savini Jason or anything, just to have a better assortment of pros and cons, instead of the strongest weaknesses and the weakest strengths. Also while I agree -shift can work, I do feel it needs to be offset by some great strengths. I just don't like the idea of zombie Jasons having both Can't run and -shift, but again it could work with the right perks. 

He does have a learning curve, and you have to play with him a lot to find more creative ways to complete your objective. Just as @Alkavian said, think of him as the Kenny of Jasons. He is not super great at anything, but he can get the job done. You have to use more strategy to make this Jason effective. The worst mistake I see people make with him is that they use Shift when it is not necessary. You really have to conserve shift for when it will actually be effective.  A longer cooldown period for shift does not make him broken. I enjoy playing with him for the sole reason that he is a challenge to play with. I don't kill "12 out of 8 counselors" with him, but I have fun playing that particular version of Jason. I'm sorry you don't. The only advice I can give is, play with a different Jason. This thread is starting to remind me of the "Buff Tiffany" thread from the other day. People that want the game changed to suit their individual tastes. It really doesn't work that way man.

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Then I will agree to disagree. Jason 7 can keep his learning curve and stats that any Jason can utilize without the sense/grip/water speed, and do a better job at it too. 

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I personally don't mind playing part 7, I do alright tend to get between 5 to all people in a match. I do feel he's the weakest Jason though, mostly due to the lack of mobility or ability to control key points. I think he either needs to have morph made into a strength, have shift or traps made into a strength or taken off of being weaknesses. 

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Part 7 needs some tweaking.

Bringing Kane back for mocap work would be the perfect opportunity to bring in the weed eater.

I know its been discussed plenty before. Outside of changing stats around, that would be the other thing I would use. He would be the ONLY Jason with an instant kill weapon. You could keep his stats exactly as is. He's the slowest of the undead Jasons, but the major trade off is once he's in range, his weed eater does the trick in one slice. Sure, you could still grab kill for some unique weed eater kills.

But seriously....Part 7 would basically be immune to gangbang assaults by counselors if his weed eater could instant kill counselors within range. Whose going to try to get close enough with a weapon when he can cut you in half with a left click? Maybe his swing would be slowest of the Jasons, but it would be the most deadly. No amount of thick skin or multiple first aid spray would save them.

 

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13 hours ago, tyrant666 said:

Part 7 needs some tweaking.

Bringing Kane back for mocap work would be the perfect opportunity to bring in the weed eater.

I know its been discussed plenty before. Outside of changing stats around, that would be the other thing I would use. He would be the ONLY Jason with an instant kill weapon. You could keep his stats exactly as is. He's the slowest of the undead Jasons, but the major trade off is once he's in range, his weed eater does the trick in one slice. Sure, you could still grab kill for some unique weed eater kills.

But seriously....Part 7 would basically be immune to gangbang assaults by counselors if his weed eater could instant kill counselors within range. Whose going to try to get close enough with a weapon when he can cut you in half with a left click? Maybe his swing would be slowest of the Jasons, but it would be the most deadly. No amount of thick skin or multiple first aid spray would save them.

 

When me and my cousin watched Part 7 months ago around when the game came out I asked him if Jason kept stopping at Home Depot between each kill. He kept having all these different weapons and tools it started to be really amusing. 

As for Jason 7 I don't think Gun is ever going to alter him, sadly. They've not commented on the outcry for making him as deadly as the others. So if they really don't care we'll just see most avoid using him unless they're stuck with him on random, and counselors having a Jason they're even less afraid of than they are of the others already. Especially after the last patch. 

Like I said I'd love it if he had +traps and stalk, so he could be a spooky ghost man that you have to work hard to get around. Or a +stalk and +morph with -traps turned into -stun resistance. I mean, why should Kanes favorite Jason actually have a good skill set that resembles the movie it came from? He was all over the map and scared the hell out of people a bunch of times. In game people know he's got no major advantages while also being unable to keep objectives watched due lack of any real mobility. I don't feel people saying they can get 8/8 as a justification for him being clearly the weakest Jason. I'm sure they could beat a kindergardener at chess, but that doesn't mean the person who won was actually any good at Chess. 

Edit: Giving him +Stalk would also give people access to a stalker at level 7, instead of all the way at level 20. Sure it may not be hard to get to 20 for some, but when your'e first starting out that's quite a long way off. My one friend wanted to get a stalker Jason asap and was a bit disappointed hearing he had to wait until level 20. If he had +Traps that'd give people access to another trapper Jason instead of just part 2. 

I'm glad the glitches are their priority but I do wish Jason 7 would get some attention too, if ever, or even a comment on peoples opinions about him. At least come out and say "We don't care." or "We think he's completely great and amazing so stop asking." At least then we'd all just go sure fine whatever and never bother worrying about if they intend to do anything. This would relegate him to never used for me, sadly, but it is what it is. Though I never use him in the state he's in anyway, especially the state the game itself is in, so it's not like it matters anyway. 

Edited by VenomSymbiote
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I think they should change the stun resistance of jason part 3 and it is very unfair to be a negative point with every hit you take you fall on the floor and the survivors are doing infinite in you I think they should get some stun resistance at least because It's very easy to knock it down because it looks like you do not have any resistance to every attack. Jason falls like a rock on the floor.

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12 hours ago, SHIELD said:

 

I think they should change the stun resistance of jason part 3 and it is very unfair to be a negative point with every hit you take you fall on the floor and the survivors are doing infinite in you I think they should get some stun resistance at least because It's very easy to knock it down because it looks like you do not have any resistance to every attack. Jason falls like a rock on the floor.

People keep saying a lot of Jason passive abilities just don't work or are busted somehow, much like Counselor perks. Perhaps -stun resistance is just not working properly and you're getting more stuns than you should?

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@VenomSymbiote How do you envision Part 7 to be? My vision is that he could be the close-combat counterpart of Part 6. He could have +Weapon Damage instead of +Throwing Knives and would be better in water than in terrain. And he could also have -Stun Resistance instead of -Shift (for balance purposes) and maintain his -Traps to contrast even more with Jason 6 abilities.

In the end, he would become like this:

Strengths:

+Water Speed (opposite of J6's +Shift)

+Sense (same as J6)

+Weapon Damage (opposite of J6's +Throwing Knives)

Weaknesses:

-Stun Resistance (opposite of J6's -Defense)

-Can't Run

-Traps (opposite of J6's -Morph)

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Part 7 Jason definitely needs to be reworked. 3 traps plus nonexistent mobility plus slow weapon kills make him eye candy but a poor choice for competitive play. He is fun for final girl chases, though. After everyone else inevitably escapes.*

 

*Poor teamwork, or a lucky phone fuse/four door proximity map can make any Jason clean house, though.

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I can agree that his stats are unplayable. People do have fun playing him as a challenge, but he's really not that effective. I find this sad, because he is the scariest Jason in the game (scarier than Savini), yet nobody ever plays as him. The other day I was in a match where he was the Jason and I was like. "Oh my Gosh! I've never ever ever heard this suspense music before!". That proves nobody ever plays as him. He has music I've never once heard before. Poor Part 7. Only YOU have the power to fix this, IllFonic! :D

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1 hour ago, ItsLeAshton said:

I can agree that his stats are unplayable. People do have fun playing him as a challenge, but he's really not that effective. I find this sad, because he is the scariest Jason in the game (scarier than Savini), yet nobody ever plays as him. The other day I was in a match where he was the Jason and I was like. "Oh my Gosh! I've never ever ever heard this suspense music before!". That proves nobody ever plays as him. He has music I've never once heard before. Poor Part 7. Only YOU have the power to fix this, IllFonic! :D

Then what about my ideas for his stats above? Tell us what do you think!

And please, introduce yourselfhttp://forum.f13game.com/index.php?/forum/5-introduce-yourself/

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18 hours ago, NoOneK9503 said:

@VenomSymbiote Do you envision Part 7 to be? My vision is that he could be the close-combat counterpart of Part 6. He could have +Weapon Damage instead of +Throwing Knives and would be better in water than in terrain. And he could also have -Stun Resistance instead of -Shift (for balance purposes) and maintain his -Traps to contrast even more with Jason 6 abilities.

In the end, he would become like this:

Strengths:

+Water Speed (opposite of J6's +Shift)

+Sense (same as J6)

+Weapon Damage (opposite of J6's +Throwing Knives)

Weaknesses:

-Stun Resistance (opposite of J6's -Defense)

-Can't Run

-Traps (opposite of J6's -Morph)

Getting rid of the shift penality and the weapon damage aren't bad. Isn't his machete one of the faster swinging weapons? I don't dislike these ideas. 

I'll admit I've not seen all the movies, but I did watch part 7 solely because of how cool he looked in it. From what I recall he was all over the place in that film. In the woods, near houses, seemingly like he was just morphing from place to place. 

Water speed, morph, stalk, -run, -stun resistance, -traps/shift. I'm not too keen on a -shift zombie Jason unless they had really bitchin positive skills. So perhaps -traps with normal shift wouldn't be too bad. I do like the idea of a Jason who can morph and stalk a lot though, so that could be cool for Jason 7 since him being all over the place in that film sticks out in my mind. So I'm not hating on your ideas, just that if I was to work him around the movie that may be what I do. 

Alternatively they could go water speed, morph, grip strength, -run, -traps, -shift, BUT grip strength would need to be changed so that counselors cannot save friends if they are grabbed unless it's with fire crackers, flare gun, grabbed persons own pocket knife, or them breaking free by themselves. Perhaps other people could use their own pocket knives to save friends, too? This would make engaging Jason 7 very dangerous.

Unless of course we could add a new skill to him. Because he totally should get something like Enrage where his rage gets built up faster than others. If I can go with that I'd want: 

Water speed, morph, Enrage, -run, -stun resistance, -shift.  Enrage could make his rage build twice as fast or quicker, he could move around the map with morph great, he'd have enough traps to keep objectives from getting done too quickly, and he'd be in line with how he was from movie 7. Once rage activates his cooldowns would get a boost so he'd go from being a pushover to being feared that much quicker. This would make a zombie Jason with -shift more viable I feel since he'd be really slow early on then become more deadly sooner. That'd probably be my ideal Jason 7. Him having Enrage would make sense to me for how pissed he was getting at Tina for not dying easily like the others. 

Edit: Also it'd be cool if he had a unique kill where he pulled out the tree trimmer that he got the asshole doctor with. If you activate the kill from a grab maybe get the vhs effect like when he shifts and morphs to mask the tree trimmer coming into his hands. This would also mimic the movie since he was getting these odd weapons out of nowhere in a bunch of scenes. Though this could be worked for every Jason to give them unique kills from their movies that aren't related to their main weapon. So it'd be like a movie scene change with the vhs effect where Jason just pops up with a weapon. Though they'd probably rather make it a context kill which would be ok too. 

Edited by VenomSymbiote

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@VenomSymbiote Interesting ideas for sure. But I don't think they would be good for the game mechanics. With both +Water Speed and +Morph, he would have way too much mobility. And +Enrange would make things even worse for the counselors. Moving fast in water, morphing in the map all the time and breaking down doors early without even a penalty to traps is completely unbalanced. And I suggested -Stun Resistance because he was stunned very often by Tina and did take some time to get up. And that idea for Grip Strength is also overpowered. Jason is supposed to get the upper hand but not be Superman.

For last, that idea for an environmental kill is awesome, but would be very expensive to actually become true. I like to think of things that would take little time to put in the game but could still make significant differences in gameplay for the Jasons and even counselors.

Sorry but I still think my idea is better because it would make Jason 7 more unique and different than both Jason 6 and Jason 8 (remember that both J7 and J8 have +Water Speed).

Edit: As for Jason 8, he needs +Morph instead of +Stalk to make him have more control of the map and make more use of his +Destruction ability. And his current weaknesses would balance it out since -Sense means his "sense net" is smaller and his -Grip Strength increases the chances of counselors breaking free from his grab.

Edited by NoOneK9503

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I seriously don't understand why his shift is so slow. Like fine it takes awhile to regen but what is the rationality behind it being so slow. It's as slow as Part 2's but Part 2 can run and has fast morph regen. 

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3 hours ago, Kalopsia said:

I seriously don't understand why his shift is so slow. Like fine it takes awhile to regen but what is the rationality behind it being so slow. It's as slow as Part 2's but Part 2 can run and has fast morph regen. 

It is like this for all of Jason's abilities. They not only have longer cooldown but other nerfs as well.

-Morph = Longer cooldown and less precision of where you will land when choosing a place to morph.

-Traps = Less traps to use.

-Shift = Longer cooldown and slower shift speed and duration.

-Water Speed = Slower in water.

-Stun Resistance = Longer stun time and more chance to get stunned with every weapon (stun is different of knock down. Stun time does not have a recover bar).

-Hit Points = The name explains it all.

-Defense = A bit less HP and less chances to block attacks when blocking (it doesn't sound that bad, but when battling in combat stance with Tommy, be careful).

-Stalk = Longer cooldown and shorter duration when active.

-Sense = Longer cooldown and smaller radius to detect counselors.

-Grip Strength = Less time to hold on counselors before they break free.

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42 minutes ago, NoOneK9503 said:

It is like this for all of Jason's abilities. They not only have longer cooldown but other nerfs as well.

-Morph = Longer cooldown and less precision of where you will land when choosing a place to morph.

-Traps = Less traps to use.

-Shift = Longer cooldown and slower shift speed and duration.

-Water Speed = Slower in water.

-Stun Resistance = Longer stun time and more chance to get stunned with every weapon (stun is different of knock down. Stun time does not have a recover bar).

-Hit Points = The name explains it all.

-Defense = A bit less HP and less chances to block attacks when blocking (it doesn't sound that bad, but when battling in combat stance with Tommy, be careful).

-Stalk = Longer cooldown and shorter duration when active.

-Sense = Longer cooldown and smaller radius to detect counselors.

-Grip Strength = Less time to hold on counselors before they break free.

Some of these aren't that bad and others really hinder your usage of the ability. -Shift is really harsh on say, Jason 7, whos mobility is already hindered as a zombie. Don't really get why -hp and -defense are both a thing. They seem to do more or less the same thing. 

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31 minutes ago, VenomSymbiote said:

Some of these aren't that bad and others really hinder your usage of the ability. -Shift is really harsh on say, Jason 7, whos mobility is already hindered as a zombie. Don't really get why -hp and -defense are both a thing. They seem to do more or less the same thing. 

Less HP only affects your hp (you have a way smaller HP bar than a "regular" Jason).

Less defense affects both your hp and defense (specially defense). And the hp penalty affects you way less than the -hp one.

For example, if you try to defend with Jason 9 you will block more attacks than Jason 6 but J9 takes less successful hits to fall his mask off than J6.

Side note: According to @wes, the tree trimmer from the Doctor kill scene was an Idea for Jason 7's weapon. But they gave up because it would take a completly different animation to break down doors and at the time, they were low on money to do these things.

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Side note: According to @wes, the tree trimmer from the Doctor kill scene was an Idea for Jason 7's weapon. But they gave up because it would take a completly different animation to break down doors and at the time, they were low on money to do these things.

Wouldn't the combat stance spear animation have worked ok for the tree trimmers door animation? I'm glad he got the machete since it's more iconic though. 

I still feel water/morph/stalk would be a really cool move set for Jason 7, but your ideas aren't bad either. Honestly anything they do to Jason 7 at this point would be a buff since you can't get any worse, skill-wise, than he is now. They don't seem to ever comment on him though which is disheartening since we very well may never see him altered in any way shape or form. It's kind of funny in a sad way because in the beta he had -stun instead of -traps. When the game first launched Jason 7s stats said -traps but he had 5 of them. So from beta and the launch they've already nerfed him. Unbelievable. 

Edited by VenomSymbiote
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