Jump to content
GunMedia_Ben

Upcoming Changes to Team Killing Changes for Next Patch

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, GunMedia_Ben said:

Hey all!

So, the biggest thing we’ve heard from our community with the game are issues pertaining to rampant team-killing that has unfortunately been abused by players on all platforms. While the mechanic’s intent is designed to promote life-or-death experiences into each and every game you play, the reality has turned into more of a Battle Royale scenario to a point our team feels a change needs to be made.

In the next patch; Public Games will no longer allow counselor team killing through weapons use against other counselor players. The shotgun, machete, and other assorted weapons will no longer have any effect on friendly players.

However; there remain a couple dangers. The biggest one is that the car will remain as-is. A car can and will be able to run you over and kill you. We decided on this as the alternative was abused during our beta where users would simply stand in front of the car, effectively blocking it from moving. The next consideration is that counselor-placed bear-traps will still cause damage to other counselors that walk over them, however a resulting death will no longer incur an XP Penalty. To that we say; pay attention to placed traps.

Our team believes that the ability to hurt other counselors is something that this game should have as it adds tension and requires players to make tough calls. However, we do not believe this should be a mechanic that is abused by players to the point where the vast majority of our current communications from fans are complaints of rampant/unwarranted team-killing/griefing/trolling. We will include this mechanic in private matches for now, with the hope of better options in the future.

 

Tl;dr

·       Public Matches - Team Killing is No Longer Possible

·       Public Matches - Cars Can Still Kill

·       Public Matches - Traps Still Can Hurt/Kill - no XP penalty Loss to Trap Placer

·       Private Matches - Team Killing Still Possible

·       Can’t Have Nice Things.

 

-Gun

An idea to make it so people don't troll keys or gas or battery in this situation! What if you can still hit them say 3-5 times  without inflicting damage but they then drop said item?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, PowellCampsNAKED said:

An idea to make it so people don't troll keys or gas or battery in this situation! What if you can still hit them say 3-5 times  without inflicting damage but they then drop said item?

 

So...after it's impossible to hurt anyone, make it so anyone can run up, whack you a few times, and make you drop whatever items you're carrying? Nope, no possibility for abuse there. No way someone would, say, spend a game just whacking the fuck out of whoever tried to get items to/in the car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, JasonX316 said:

It will be nice to see what the game plays like after this goes into effect. Gotta say, I think you guys nailed it though. With leaving the ability for the car, people wont just stand in front and block you from escaping. Looking forward to this. Maybe add host migration and fix the P.H.D in Murder achievement and its 100. 

All they would need to do is pickup fuse, keys and propeller or gas then go hide under a bed somewhere.

Now it's impossible for anyone to escape.

Even if they only got the fuse and keys, they're still making it impossible for half the lobby to escape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trolls are always going to troll, but that situation is already taking more work on their part than just a). find weapon b). hit someone.

TKing is essentially lazy play. Calling it by the percentages, it seems clear which of the two takes more effort. And more work means less chance of people bothering.

Plus having to spend time searching around for items always means more chance of Jason finding you. Unless it's a case of the Jason player colluding as well, but that's running into ban risk territory anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea but they could do that now. And I'm not killing someone to take parts. Not that serious. I don't mind dying. If someone wants to troll or whatever, go for it. When I get to be Jason is where the real fun begins anyway. Run rabbit run. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there's nothing i hate more than teamkillers. I've been killed by a bunch myself.. but i don't like it. 

people are going to start griefing and trolling in ways that are more annoying and have a bigger impact on the game and there won't really be any recourse. 

it's also going to impact non-griefing areas of the game. playing as jason just got a bit harder now that councilors can fire guns and swing weapons without concern for hitting their fellow councilors. 

seriously... I'd rather play with the tk'ers than have the game neutered like this. at least you can defend yourself now.

wanna weed out tk'ers? allow the xp loss to stack and actually cost them levels and perks. once they've lost all their unlocked jasons, councilors, perks etc... i don't see em sticking around. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see that a few people have major concerns that griefing and trolling will migrate to other activities. I submit to you:

 

The Law of Diminishing Griefers

 

This is a reverse proportionality law that basically says, griefers are in it for the yucks and reactions and are not as a species inclined towards massive amounts of labour. While outliers who will in fact go six blocks out of their way in order to poke a person, the vast majority appear not to want to exert important energie reserves.

So, as effort required to get a response increases, the number of people willing to exert said effort decreases.

Finding a weapon, finding a counselor, whacking said counselor with said weapon while shouting "What's my name bitch!" or "Respect my hanging CHAD!" requires very little time or effort.

Based on my in game research, finding a damn set of keys has already taken more time than the above. Creating a horde of useful things would take half if not longer of the 20 minutes.

We also must look at the portion of the equation that involves dirty filthy jerkface yucks.

Yelling at someone and killing them provides a fairly high amount of griefer jollies. Rage factor is high for people who just wanted to avoid Jason and play their game.

Hording a pile of stuff only provides the external rage if the normal player ios informed. For that you have to horde the stuff, find a counselor and convince them you have horded the stuff. And even then most people won't even believe you, or just move on.

Anyone playing in a game where they have come across the fuse, keys and a gas can all within the first 3-4 minutes by yourself is rare, so the likelihood of one person being able to block more than one exit is low.

In conclusion

griefer jollies = effort expressed as a reverse integer where the least effort is a higher number than least effort x rage received

Number of griefers = griefer jollies - risk of losing oppurtunity to continue griefing.

 

Never be afraid to shut down one avenue of grief because another might appear. Always take out the largest bully first, then go for the smaller ones. Often times the little ones are only there because they could hide behind the big ones.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

I can see that a few people have major concerns that griefing and trolling will migrate to other activities. I submit to you:

 

The Law of Diminishing Griefers

 

This is a reverse proportionality law that basically says, griefers are in it for the yucks and reactions and are not as a species inclined towards massive amounts of labour. While outliers who will in fact go six blocks out of their way in order to poke a person, the vast majority appear not to want to exert important energie reserves.

So, as effort required to get a response increases, the number of people willing to exert said effort decreases.

Finding a weapon, finding a counselor, whacking said counselor with said weapon while shouting "What's my name bitch!" or "Respect my hanging CHAD!" requires very little time or effort.

Based on my in game research, finding a damn set of keys has already taken more time than the above. Creating a horde of useful things would take half if not longer of the 20 minutes.

We also must look at the portion of the equation that involves dirty filthy jerkface yucks.

Yelling at someone and killing them provides a fairly high amount of griefer jollies. Rage factor is high for people who just wanted to avoid Jason and play their game.

Hording a pile of stuff only provides the external rage if the normal player ios informed. For that you have to horde the stuff, find a counselor and convince them you have horded the stuff. And even then most people won't even believe you, or just move on.

Anyone playing in a game where they have come across the fuse, keys and a gas can all within the first 3-4 minutes by yourself is rare, so the likelihood of one person being able to block more than one exit is low.

In conclusion

griefer jollies = effort expressed as a reverse integer where the least effort is a higher number than least effort x rage received

Number of griefers = griefer jollies - risk of losing oppurtunity to continue griefing.

 

Never be afraid to shut down one avenue of grief because another might appear. Always take out the largest bully first, then go for the smaller ones. Often times the little ones are only there because they could hide behind the big ones.

 

Thank you. I was going to say something similar, but you have said it extremely well.

It is the truth. There will always be extreme grief-ers and jerks, but the more they take away the easy, low-hanging jerk fruit, the fewer jerks there will be that are up for the extra work necessary for their kicks.

 

The only thing I d worry about is body-blocking. That does seem like an easy thing to abuse. (and yes, I hate the fact that these should even be concerns of ours and the developers'!!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

I can see that a few people have major concerns that griefing and trolling will migrate to other activities. I submit to you:

 

The Law of Diminishing Griefers

 

This is a reverse proportionality law that basically says, griefers are in it for the yucks and reactions and are not as a species inclined towards massive amounts of labour. While outliers who will in fact go six blocks out of their way in order to poke a person, the vast majority appear not to want to exert important energie reserves.

So, as effort required to get a response increases, the number of people willing to exert said effort decreases.

Finding a weapon, finding a counselor, whacking said counselor with said weapon while shouting "What's my name bitch!" or "Respect my hanging CHAD!" requires very little time or effort.

Based on my in game research, finding a damn set of keys has already taken more time than the above. Creating a horde of useful things would take half if not longer of the 20 minutes.

We also must look at the portion of the equation that involves dirty filthy jerkface yucks.

Yelling at someone and killing them provides a fairly high amount of griefer jollies. Rage factor is high for people who just wanted to avoid Jason and play their game.

Hording a pile of stuff only provides the external rage if the normal player ios informed. For that you have to horde the stuff, find a counselor and convince them you have horded the stuff. And even then most people won't even believe you, or just move on.

Anyone playing in a game where they have come across the fuse, keys and a gas can all within the first 3-4 minutes by yourself is rare, so the likelihood of one person being able to block more than one exit is low.

In conclusion

griefer jollies = effort expressed as a reverse integer where the least effort is a higher number than least effort x rage received

Number of griefers = griefer jollies - risk of losing oppurtunity to continue griefing.

 

Never be afraid to shut down one avenue of grief because another might appear. Always take out the largest bully first, then go for the smaller ones. Often times the little ones are only there because they could hide behind the big ones.

 

Thank you! You remove the larger issues first, and then worry about the "what ifs" later. People already try to hoard items, but unless they're the Flash then it requires a lot of effort to hoard both sets of gas, both sets of batteries, both sets of keys, the phone box fuse, and the propeller within a matter of minutes and then find a good spot for each to troll people on. And you always find the risk of being spotted by Jason while searching for items.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, LadySansaLannister said:

Thank you! You remove the larger issues first, and then worry about the "what ifs" later. People already try to hoard items, but unless they're the Flash then it requires a lot of effort to hoard both sets of gas, both sets of batteries, both sets of keys, the phone box fuse, and the propeller within a matter of minutes and then find a good spot for each to troll people on. And you always find the risk of being spotted by Jason while searching for items.

The larger issue is the griefers, not the tool they're using at the moment. The worry is not what imagined tactic they'll use next so much as that this is just a band-aid. Handling the offending players should've been the priority, not compromising the game's vision to take away one of their options.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

The larger issue is the griefers, not the tool they're using at the moment. The worry is not what imagined tactic they'll use next so much as that this is just a band-aid. Handling the offending players should've been the priority, not compromising the game's vision to take away one of their options.

Who is compromising the game's vision more? 

Was it the intention of the designers to have random rogue teenaged stereotypes rampaging through the map like it was a dystopian landscape? 

What exactly was the vision of allowing someone to kill or injure other characters? To have more Dr. Crews moments? Lachapa and Bugzy chill in' until Jason shows up, the lachapa becomes lechopa, and that fat boy gets away? Ok, that might have been the vision, but when it becomes a nightmare it is time to wake up. 

The griefers are the ones ruining the vision. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

The larger issue is the griefers, not the tool they're using at the moment. The worry is not what imagined tactic they'll use next so much as that this is just a band-aid. Handling the offending players should've been the priority, not compromising the game's vision to take away one of their options.

 

14 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

Who is compromising the game's vision more? 

Was it the intention of the designers to have random rogue teenaged stereotypes rampaging through the map like it was a dystopian landscape? 

What exactly was the vision of allowing someone to kill or injure other characters? To have more Dr. Crews moments? Lachapa and Bugzy chill in' until Jason shows up, the lachapa becomes lechopa, and that fat boy gets away? Ok, that might have been the vision, but when it becomes a nightmare it is time to wake up. 

The griefers are the ones ruining the vision. 

I can't tell if you realize that you're helping prove my point, or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, NthnButAGoodTime said:

 

I can't tell if you realize that you're helping prove my point, or not.

I think the point works for both of us. You and I have some points of agreement. That is one of them. I felt like you were sort of pushing forth the idea that those calling for the change and the devs giving in was destroying the dream. I wanted to pull back from that and remind you of the areas in which we can all agree.

I should point out, I have been lurking on this topic for a while, and the Kotaku thread as well. I may be answering to the totality of the arguements more than the individual statment you made. Sorry about that, it is unfair of me to do so, and confusing to us both I think.

We agree the problem is griefers. We disagree on solution.

I don't remember if it was you who said take away the griefers and not the tool they are using, which is similar to the gun control arguments. You cannot always prove who the true griefers are from the accidental and occasional (He made me kill him because he....) and so now what?

You limit the tool to controlled environments. You can TK in private matches. Public spaces are free of randoms doing random things because they only have the tool in private. This is the best current solution before they have a codified list of rules we agree to and the ability to enforce those rules.

1.8 million copies sold. How many games a day is that? How many griefings in a day? How many employees are there? How much video would they have to go through watching closely enough to find the wrongdoing as opposed to the accidents? How many database enttries do they have to make to prove it was not an isolated incident? A simple reporting system without verification is not enough to remove the ability for a paying customer to play the game.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Definitelynotjason said:

I think the point works for both of us...[and then a lot of valid points]

 

Yeah...I suppose this is simpler, and still gives the private option BUT my preference would be a lobby that high TK players funnel into.

I don't honestly know which would be harder to code.

I get that you've been forced to watch and not comment and had it all ready to squirt out. I like how you've represented yourself on the boards so far. I'm glad you're here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

Yeah...I suppose this is simpler, and still gives the private option BUT my preference would be a lobby that high TK players funnel into.

I don't honestly know which would be harder to code.

I get that you've been forced to watch and not comment and had it all ready to squirt out. I like how you've represented yourself on the boards so far. I'm glad you're here.

Thank you for the kind words.

I see your point that simple is not always best. I do hope that this doesn't turn in to a game of whack a griefing mole, and the devs spend most of their time making bigger mallets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Definitelynotjason said:

Thank you for the kind words.

I see your point that simple is not always best. I do hope that this doesn't turn in to a game of whack a griefing mole, and the devs spend most of their time making bigger mallets.

That's my fear, right now, and the most negative I've been willing to let myself get in these boards, so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, NthnButAGoodTime said:

That's my fear, right now, and the most negative I've been willing to let myself get in these boards, so far.

I am a johnny come lately to the party, only had the game a couple of weeks, so I missed most of the early drama, and also, missed much of the silent period from the devs. I have none of the baggage from the early days or any false promises, perceived or real.

The Gun I have seen has been fairly responsive and proactive, which leaves me with a high degree of confidence, which I know is not shared by all. I can respect those who feel differently than I because their experiences have been different. I can't agree though with a pessimistic outlook on the devs (not saying you have one, just that it is present on these boards).

I hope they know what they are doing, and from my experiences so far, they do.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Definitelynotjason said:

I am a johnny come lately to the party, only had the game a couple of weeks, so I missed most of the early drama, and also, missed much of the silent period from the devs. I have none of the baggage from the early days or any false promises, perceived or real.

The Gun I have seen has been fairly responsive and proactive, which leaves me with a high degree of confidence, which I know is not shared by all. I can respect those who feel differently than I because their experiences have been different. I can't agree though with a pessimistic outlook on the devs (not saying you have one, just that it is present on these boards).

I hope they know what they are doing, and from my experiences so far, they do.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thak u for this update :-)))) the next step i think is to find a way to avoid counselors helping jason to spot the other players in the map :-) then will be almost perfect ;-))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those concerned about people holding onto resources and preventing their use, there are options.  I would assume that the player kick ability will be rolled out with this change.  That will allow the party to kick unruly players.  Additionally, on the PS4, if you add these players to your Block List, you will never be grouped with them again, on any game.  For other platforms, I don't know what options they have, but they probably have a similar blocking system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like banning team killing all together; I think it's a knee jerk reaction that could be solved a little more eloquently.  We shouldn't punish the whole for the actions of a few.  Being able to kill fellow councilors (accidentally) is a core feature of the game (survival).

Instead, I would propose:

1) First offense:. -1000XP

2) Second offence: In addition to the -1000 XP, randomly take away a perk from the offender.

3) Third offense: Restrict the player to only being able to select a unique "dunce" councilor.  The councilor should look the part and have a dunce cap, have low stats that make it extremely difficult to survive a game (1's across the board), etc.  This special character will not be able to use weapons to harm other councilors, but can be harmed by other councilors (in case the dunce is hoarding car parts, etc). Councilors that kill a Dunce will not incur a penalty (you only incur penalties for killing regular councilors).

 After a probationary period of time  as a Dunce (weeks/months), the player can use regular councilors again.  

4) Fourth offense: Perma-ban.

 

I think handling it this way won't punish all councilors, but only the few who abuse the ability to kill other players (ie; intentionally, not accidentally).

Also doing it this way will clearly identify who is branded a TK, so others can be wary and keep an eye on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First I'm not now and have never been an intentional team killer playing mostly all LFG on Xbox I've also never had to deal with the type of "trolls" who exist in this game.  The only reason the change bums me out is that now people can really defend their fellow counselors with out fear of injuring them.  I see Jason's taking an awful lot of free machete shots.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Kaelum said:

For those concerned about people holding onto resources and preventing their use, there are options.  I would assume that the player kick ability will be rolled out with this change.  That will allow the party to kick unruly players.  Additionally, on the PS4, if you add these players to your Block List, you will never be grouped with them again, on any game.  For other platforms, I don't know what options they have, but they probably have a similar blocking system.

I think if a player kick ability were on the horizon, there would be no need to remove friendly fire. Sure, the griefer may kill one counselor before he/she gets kicked, but maybe if they get kicked out of enough games, it would curb the behavior. There are still plenty of opportunities to troll. Hiding items, running over people with the car, etc...

I just don't believe this is really going to fix anything. I'm usually an optimist, but I am feeling fairly pessimistic about this patch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BrutalMetalHead said:

Can you guys work something to improve frame rate and graphics for PS4 pro owners ??

 

Thanks 

You might want to make a new thread in the Suggestions/Feedback forum on here. After you post a "Hello" in the Introduction forum, of course. ;) This thread is all about the new patch coming out. Devs will not be looking for suggestions or complaints about frame rates and graphics in this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×