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Nubcakes

Why Does Everyone Say Savini Is Overpowered?

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Alright, listen -- 

More recently, I've been getting complaints when I play as Savini Jason that he is overpowered, too strong, and that no skill is required to kill 7-8 players in a match. Why is this the conclusion? Because of his different music and his cool appearance? So, to educate myself, I've made an effort to play every Jason, even the ones deemed "bad jasons", and I can see why some are preferable over others, but I don't find the Jasons THAT much lacking. But why is Savini framed as a god-tier Jason? 

 

Let's do a quick run down on Savini Jason:

Strengths: 1. Increased Shift Regeneration Speed, 2. Weapon Deals More Damage, 3. Increased Speed While Breaking Down Doors and Walls

Weaknesses: 1. Slower Movement Underwater, 2. Cannot Run, Slightly Lower Top-End Speed, 3. Decreased Grip Strength

 

So, I analyzed the strengths and weaknesses. Obviously, the shift regen is pretty significant. Part 6 and Part 9 Jasons also have increased shift regen though, and Part 6 has a reduced cooldown on his sense ability and it lasts longer, which Savini lacks. I'm more inclined to think that Part 9 Jason is the OP one, with Stun Resistance and Increased Stalking as well. Part 8 Jason can break down doors and walls faster too, like Savini Jason, but has MASSIVELY increased water speed. I can tell you firsthand as Savini Jason that I cannot catch a boat that is already in motion if I can't morph near it. As for weapon dealing more damage, Part 3 Jason has that as well, AS WELL AS increased Grip Strength, something Savini is severely lacking. 

I agree that Savini Jason is definitely not a "terrible" Jason, but each of the Jasons are tailored to different gameplay styles. One person might be REALLY good at Part 2 Jason because they know how to trap well, and would prefer to run instead of relying on shift and possibly getting juked. 

Sorry for the sort-of-long post, but I guess I just want to know why exactly Savini is OP, rarity or anything aside, I just mean solely based on stats. I have found that when I play a certain Jason, I have to change my mindset because I have different utility at my disposal and different resources to draw from, based on the Jason's strengths.

 

Thanks for reading, 

- Nubcakes -

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It's because nobody else has savini Jason and some of us get envious.

Me? Not so much but to others its sort of a tease, like a "haha I have savini and you don't".

 

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Like Seeker said, it's mostly envy. Everyone wants what they can't have. I don't have the Savini Jason skin, but I actually get excited when he shows up in a match. I think he looks cool as hell, and I like his music. Retro Jason, not so much. I owned that NES game back in the day, and it was horrible!!! (And he carried a damn machete, not an axe!! Despite what the cover art would have you believe)

But yeah man, it just boils down to the fact that the majority of people don't have that skin, so they get butthurt when they see it.

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Savini's strengths are all the most powerful strengths in the game, and his weaknesses barely qualify as such (-Grip Strength is totally irrelevant, Can't Run is more "Jason's default state" than "weakness," and -Water Speed is a huge edge case). You're also forgetting his fourth hidden strength, increased weapon range, which is huge (only Jason Part 6 shares this advantage). No other Jason has a collection of traits that add up to anything nearly this strong.

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IMO Destruction and Shift Buff are the two best strengths. Add that to the fact that his traps and morph are standard. His weaknesses are probably the least important.

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Every time he says William Wallace just replace it with Savini Jason ?? Sorry, I couldn't resist. I honestly do not feel that Savini Jason is that OP. Yeah, he's got all of the power stats, but just like any Jason, it is all in how good the player is that is piloting him. I've escaped him many times, and we even managed to kill him once. I'm sorry, I just don't get the hate from the people that don't have the skin. I don't have it either.

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Just now, ColdArmy13 said:

IMO Destruction and Shift Buff are the two best strengths. Add that to the fact that his traps and morph are standard. His weaknesses are probably the least important.

Yep. +Shift allows him to bodyblock easier and also outrun the car, and Destruction is a 50% increase in cabin entrance time.

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Just now, Rydog said:

Yep. +Shift allows him to bodyblock easier and also outrun the car, and Destruction is a 50% increase in cabin entrance time.

He is the only one with both.. that doesnt take hits in traps/morph etc

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destruction becomes obsolete after rage, also, idk. i just feel like its a little over-glorified lol

 

1 hour ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I heard Savini Jason gets all of his abilities sooner than any other Jason. If that's true then that is kind of a secret strength. So in essence he has 4 strengths!

If I could see something official on that, then I would stand corrected.

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1 hour ago, Nubcakes said:

destruction becomes obsolete after rage, also, idk. i just feel like its a little over-glorified lol

Totally not true -- Rage leaves Jason far more open to punishment because he's stuck in the animation for so long. It may be a little thing, but a Jason with +Destruction and a long weapon has more ways to quickly get inside a cabin with less fear of a free stun.

 

1 hour ago, Nubcakes said:

If I could see something official on that, then I would stand corrected.

I still need to do a full battery of proper Savini Jason tests on PC (I currently only have access to him on PS4). Back soon with that. Hopefully this week.

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2 minutes ago, Rydog said:

Totally not true -- Rage leaves Jason far more open to punishment because he's stuck in the animation for so long. It may be a little thing, but a Jason with +Destruction and a long weapon has more ways to quickly get inside a cabin with less fear of a free stun.

I do get that, but also its pretty obvious hearing loud bangs on the door to get away from it. I guess there are alot of angles to consider. 

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1 hour ago, Rydog said:

Totally not true -- Rage leaves Jason far more open to punishment because he's stuck in the animation for so long. It may be a little thing, but a Jason with +Destruction and a long weapon has more ways to quickly get inside a cabin with less fear of a free stun.

Agreed. I hardly use Rage because of this fact...actually, I only use it if the counselor is unarmed or I know they're hiding. Otherwise, I enter combat and break down a door so they can't stun me. Typically, that method works and I walk away with another kill.

And I've gotten the same complaint regarding Savini Jason. Some people quit when I select him in the lobby, others quit if the match starts and I have him. I don't understand that mindset, though. While I've had some great matches with Savini Jason, I've had my absolute best with parts 2, 3 & 6 respectively.

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@Nubcakes and @Rydog please don't double post; I've merged your posts.

As for this thread, there are very similar threads that exist, like this one: 

I will leave this open for discussion however as this thread is a little different.

My opinion on Savini Jason (who I use exclusively on both Xbox and Steam) is that he's not overpowered; it's entirely dependent on the player who's using him. Every now and then people manage to escape me in the boat or the car; it's not often at all but it does happen. If you're a good Jason then you can get 7/7 with all of them (part 7 being the hardest one I'd say). Every Jason is overpowered, even part 7.

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Savini Jason has 3 strengths which I would say are undeniably part of the strongest Jason kit possible against a pack of counselors: +Shift, +Weapon Strength, and weapon range. +Destruction is the only questionable strength as far as being part of the best kit vs. a pack, and it's still quite strong regardless. (Supposedly Savini's Weapon Strength is bugged at the moment, though, which currently makes him significantly weaker than he should be.)

Water Speed is Savini's closest thing to a significant weakness besides Can't Run (which can't be removed without replacing an already excellent strength with Can Run as well as adding a new weakness.) Water Speed only comes into play in half of games, and you can still Morph to the escape and play goalie against the boat with Stalk. (As a counselor, I think it might actually be a smarter play to go for the boat timeout rather than trying to escape with it until you know Savini's location.) At worst, this weakness costs you 2 escapes from people who were most likely not dedicated team players anyway (unless trying to bring in Tommy for a kill.)

Edit: All that said, I still don't think any Jason is overpowered.

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People always complain when he's selected. I just random my Jason now a days but after about 30 random, I'm convinced that there is a programming error that doesn't allow him or retro Jason to be picked.

If anyone can test this more properly to confirm or if you have actually had random pick him for You, please let me know. 

This is on ps4, yes I have him, otherwise I wouldn't expect random to work ( wanted to clear that up, a guy on the bug forum thought I meant I couldn't get him using random as a non owner....)

I also want to add that it seems Like his weapon gets stuck a lot more than it should when you bust windows and such.

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His three pros (+Shift, +Damage, Destruction) are among the best three skills in the game. Only +Morph is also in that conversation.

His three cons (Can't run, Water Speed, -Grab) don't matter.

Can't run isn't a con. It's neutral. 4/6 other Jasons have it, so It's common, and unlike most other skills, It's a binary. You can either run or you can't. It's not like Shift where there's a plus, a minus, and a neutral value. Destruction is a good example. You either have it or you don't. As not having it is common, that's classed a neutral, not a weakness. A lack of something is not a bad thing, having a value less than the neutral value is.

Water speed is incredibly situational. In most matches, players will never even enter the water. Even more so if there's not a boat. In 50% of matches it literally means nothing, and in the remainder they have to fix the boat before it does become an issue. Even then, you have plenty of time to play goalie by just morphing to the exit.

-Grab is pointless. All grab kills are available instantly as long as you have space to trigger the animations. Grab only dictates how many button bresses a player needs to escape. The only time -Grab becomes an issue is if you're in a very tight space, without a context kill like a window, door, or fire close by, and need to walk them into the open. Even then, they need to be a high composure character for this to even be an issue. It's almost never an issue, and because you have +weapon strength, you can just chop them down in close quarters anyway.

This isn't even mentioning that he has increased weapon reach (shared with 6), which obviously increases the benefit of +damage.

I don't think he's an issue as in around 500 matches, I've played him 5 times. He's too rare to be an imbalance. And even then, he didn't seem overly oppressive, though that could have just been bad players. There's also an argument that he stuns more easily and for longer, and anecdotally that seemed the case, though  don't have any hard data.

But to say on paper he isn't far and away the best is absurd.

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1 minute ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

What would be a con? Can't Walk?

Slow walk? Have Sprint as a +, then can run becomes neutral, and can't run a con?

I appreciate sarcasm as much as anybody, but come on. This is hardly a difficult concept to grasp.

If a value is a binary, and 5/7 Jasons have the lower value, then it's baseline, not a negative. Only two Jasons have Destruction, which is also a binary, making it a direct comparison. +Weapon Damage is the same.

Do you really think Jasons without that should have -Destruction and -Weapon Damage to highlight this? Do you consider taking 6 hits to destroy a door a weakness, or the norm?

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The one thing I've consistently seen about this topic is people who don't have him, and never played him are the ones that say he's OP. So that tells me there's definitely some jealousy/envy there. Not saying it's every single one of them, but certainly by quite a few. They're mad that they can't have him, and they can't take it out on the devs, so they take it out on the people that have him. I've played every single Jason, Savini included, multiple times. I've also played against him 4 times. The results: 3 escapes, 1 death. The only Jason I ever have trouble getting 6 or more kills with is Part 7. I've wondered if Gun is able to track how many times each Jason is used. I'd bet that Part 7 is amazingly low in comparison to the other Jason's.

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As someone that has played alot as Savini Jason, my recommendation for playing against him is to stick together and be more aggressive because he is extremely easy to stun. If the counselors split up or just try to run, they are only going to die tired.

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24 minutes ago, Super Ty said:

The one thing I've consistently seen about this topic is people who don't have him, and never played him are the ones that say he's OP. So that tells me there's definitely some jealousy/envy there. Not saying it's every single one of them, but certainly by quite a few. They're mad that they can't have him, and they can't take it out on the devs, so they take it out on the people that have him. I've played every single Jason, Savini included, multiple times. The only Jason I ever have trouble getting 6 or more kills with is Part 7. I've wondered if Gun is able to track how many times each Jason is used. I'd bet that Part 7 is amazingly low in comparison to the other Jason's.

You're reaching a false positive here.

Almost nobody has played him, because almost nobody has him. On paper, which we're looking at, he's unambiguously the best. There's no jealousy, just an objective look at his abilities. Unless he has hidden weaknesses or broken stats, then according to his stats, he will be the best.

I main Part 9, and almost always leave no survivors. In terms of relevant stats, Savini essentially trades a worse Stalk and Stun, for 2 more traps, 3 hit destruction, longer reach, and more damage. If you added that to Part 9, I'd definitely never leave anyone alive. That's my baseline.

Stalk and stun are good, but middle tier perks. I'd be changing two average abilites for 3 great ones, and one average one (reach).

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2 minutes ago, ZooMalfunction said:

You're reaching a false positive here.

Almost nobody has played him, because almost nobody has him. On paper, which we're looking at, he's unambiguously the best.

Unless he has hidden weaknesses or broken stats, then he will be the best.

I main Part 9, and almost always leave no survivors. In terms of relevant stats, Savini essentially trades a worse Stalk for 2 more traps, 3 hit destruction, longer reach, and more damage. If you added that to Part 9, I'd definitely never leave anyone alive. That's my baseline.

To add to you point.  I do not have Savini and I've only gone up against him in a match once or twice.  I would love to have him, but I'm not going to make a big stink over not being able to get him.

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