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Right now I feel like the male counselors (not including Tommy of course) have very little role to play in things.  Their only role is being able to do DAMAGE to Jason in a kill attempt.

Vanessa is a better fedex/distraction/runner than Chad OR Buggzy, even Tiffany is better because she's quieter and has more stam.

Deb is a better mechanic than Adam or Lechappa, heck even AJ is better as a fixer than a biker dude that you'd think would be a grease monkey.

and obviously virtually all of the females are better at stealth (with the exception of Vanessa)

On top of this a female counselor is required for a Jason kill, you don't need any male counselors just 1 female counselor can die and come back as Tommy for the role.

You see entire lobbies of AJ's, maybe a Vanessa, maybe a Deb.

Male counselors need something , with strength not being that important for stunning, it just doesen't work out well.  I thought about maybe a driving skill, like Adam would be the best driver, improving speed and handling of the car, but of course that'll be called sexist if the males are better at a particular role than females.  So what do you do?  How do you break up the all female meta?

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I think it all comes down to one simple question. Do you play the game to have fun or to perform well? Because you can easily play as any of the male counselors, have fun and even survive... no rework needed. However if you play mainly to get the best results possible and survive as much as possible, females are the way to go.

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55 minutes ago, Survival said:

I think it all comes down to one simple question. Do you play the game to have fun or to perform well? Because you can easily play as any of the male counselors, have fun and even survive... no rework needed. However if you play mainly to get the best results possible and survive as much as possible, females are the way to go.

Take a look at your average lobby to get the response to that question they're overwhelmingly majority female, particularly AJ because she's stealthy and decent enough at repair to fix things on her own and survive.

Not to mention "you can escape on any survivor if you're good" is a horrible excuse to not balance the counselors.  Never balance a multiplayer game with different classes or characters with the assumption that the stats don't matter only player skill does, because players will gravitate towards the characters with the best stats because you didn't bother to balance them, period.

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4 hours ago, I Hate Spectate said:

Take a look at your average lobby to get the response to that question they're overwhelmingly majority female, particularly AJ because she's stealthy and decent enough at repair to fix things on her own and survive.

Not to mention "you can escape on any survivor if you're good" is a horrible excuse to not balance the counselors.  Never balance a multiplayer game with different classes or characters with the assumption that the stats don't matter only player skill does, because players will gravitate towards the characters with the best stats because you didn't bother to balance them, period.

Oh I think you misunderstood. I quite agree with you that the male counselors do not have the same edge as the female ones and I think it would give the game a more variety if more people wanted to play as male counselors.

What I wanted to say was that some people just play for fun with whatever character suits them best. Nowhere did I mention that you have to get good, in fact I thought my post was clear with "... even survive" and "survive as much possible".

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I think the males need something too. The most valuable stats in the game are stealth, stamina, and repair. Nothing else really matters. The slowest counselors are faster than Jason, and the weakest counselors can still stun Jason with perks and by surrounding him to get his mask off. The other stats that males excel in need something else that they effect in gameplay that makes them worthwhile.

I really hope they add the ability for males to shave their head to "remind Jason of his past" as the male equivalent of the Sweater stun for the Jason kill. That alone would encourage more male character use.

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I agree. I kind of wish they would increase the male composure across the board and have strength also influence breaking free of Jason. I would also like to see the "fighting/strength" characters be able to take more damage then the stealth characters before they slow down. 

 

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I find most of the male characters can take more of a beating as well.  Playing AJ I once stepped in a trap while at full health and died.  She's also got the stamina of an asthmatic.  If Jason walks into a room full of AJ he stands a better chance than a room full of the jock.  Also, Jason is traditionally beaten by females, so it's kind of fitting. :)

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I usually play LaChappa or Palamino. I find the males to be lacking as well, but I have got quite good at holding my own. The male counselors definitely could use a re-look in terms of performance. AJ the goth rocker should be better than the grease monkey at fixing things...that is just wrong. Why is the biggest dude (LaChappa) the one guy that seems to take one whack and be limping away? I realize he's a nerd and all, but damn, that fat has to account for a wee bit better armor. LOL. I think perhaps they should rethink stats in general:

Composure (stealth is rolled into this):  Relates to fear accumulation and fear mitigation. How quiet a character is...etc.

Health:  Relates to how many hits you can take and damage mitigation.

Strength:  Weapon damage and breaking free of traps/Jason's grab.

Intelligence:  Repair skill / Setting and disabling traps

Speed:  Sprint speed / Entering-exiting hiding places / Crawling through windows

Stamina:  Stamina pool and regeneration

Luck:  Passive boosts to all stats for RNG related things. Random chance skill checks will be easier. Random chance to auto break-free of Jason's grab (X% based on how lucky a character is?).

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11 hours ago, I Hate Spectate said:

I thought about maybe a driving skill, like Adam would be the best driver, improving speed and handling of the car, but of course that'll be called sexist if the males are better at a particular role than females.

It's the 80's. Sexism should thrive here. 

The male counselors are pretty useless though. They basically serve no purpose. 

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4 minutes ago, Brigadius said:

The male counselors are pretty useless though. They basically serve no purpose. 

Agreed. I've only felt the need to play as AJ. The male counselors have nothing appealing for me. I'd rather be all stealthy and shiet. 

The fuck is chad good for anyways

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2 hours ago, lHeartBreakerl said:

Agreed. I've only felt the need to play as AJ. The male counselors have nothing appealing for me. I'd rather be all stealthy and shiet. 

The fuck is chad good for anyways

Swagger 

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The LaChappa kid isn't a bad male character... I think the big reason you're noticing such a difference is just because the stealth mechanics are so much easier to manipulate to your advantage vs the combat and strength ones. Nothing wrong with that, I play stealth all the time honestly cause that's just how I usually play most games. Using stealth makes the player invisible to the monster chasing them and players tend to live longer so it seems like you're surviving more, but really if the combat just gets tightened up to where players can more capably defend themselves then Adam and Bugsy could be just as viable. The trick is to not make it too highly tuned though otherwise games will just break down into a Jason vs 7 Bugsy's that pummel Jason as a group all match. 

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Stealth fails you can run and even fight.

Fighting typically means that if you miss that swing you are dead.

Gun needs to reevaluate how the "combat characters" function.

 

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a couple of problems exists- combat system is broken, Jason cant die from damage received from male counselors.

whats the point of attacking Jason if when you do attack you dont land any hits and get kill right after and when you damage Jason enough he cant die because you dont have the sweater and Tommy Jarvis?

so unless they make a kill possible for the men like Tommy with the boat then there is really no reason to play as a guy in this game.

 

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8 hours ago, DonJohn80 said:

I find most of the male characters can take more of a beating as well.  Playing AJ I once stepped in a trap while at full health and died.  She's also got the stamina of an asthmatic.  If Jason walks into a room full of AJ he stands a better chance than a room full of the jock.  Also, Jason is traditionally beaten by females, so it's kind of fitting. :)

Well there's no mechanical reason that I know of that supports that theory, all characters can take the same amount of damage as far as I know and it's perks that alter that rather than variance from character to character.  As for the traditionally beaten by females..only in parts 1, 2 and 3.

In every Friday from 4 on he's beaten by a male and female together.  Tommy and Trish Jarvis, then Tommy Jarvis and Megan Garris, which to me, started the trope that the "Edgy Guy" and "Girl Next Door" are the survivors.  Tommy was a drifter who got himself arrested, you know, "the edgy guy"

Part 7, Nick was a guy who ran with a bad crowd, got kicked out of his home by his parents, and was trying to get his life back on track, going to night school, so he's the "Adam" of the film.  He protects the "Jenny" of the film.

You get the idea, in EVERY Friday Film after the first few, an Adam and Jenny survive... although in part 8 you might argue it's an Adam and a Deb (Rennie was kind of bookish)

1 hour ago, Ralph Wiggum777 said:

The LaChappa kid isn't a bad male character... I think the big reason you're noticing such a difference is just because the stealth mechanics are so much easier to manipulate to your advantage vs the combat and strength ones. Nothing wrong with that, I play stealth all the time honestly cause that's just how I usually play most games. Using stealth makes the player invisible to the monster chasing them and players tend to live longer so it seems like you're surviving more, but really if the combat just gets tightened up to where players can more capably defend themselves then Adam and Bugsy could be just as viable. The trick is to not make it too highly tuned though otherwise games will just break down into a Jason vs 7 Bugsy's that pummel Jason as a group all match. 

Lechappa is universally worse than Deb across all stats that matter except repair which they are both 10 at.  He's 1 point slower, 1 point less stamina, 1 point less stealth, 1 point less composure, he has more strength and like 1 more point of luck.  There's no reason to play him instead of Deb if you're looking for a repair focused character to help your team

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2 minutes ago, I Hate Spectate said:

Well there's no mechanical reason that I know of that supports that theory, all characters can take the same amount of damage as far as I know and it's perks that alter that rather than variance from character to character.  As for the traditionally beaten by females..only in parts 1, 2 and 3.

In every Friday from 4 on he's beaten by a male and female together.  Tommy and Trish Jarvis, then Tommy Jarvis and Megan Garris, which to me, started the trope that the "Edgy Guy" and "Girl Next Door" are the survivors.  Tommy was a drifter who got himself arrested, you know, "the edgy guy"

Part 7, Nick was a guy who ran with a bad crowd, got kicked out of his home by his parents, and was trying to get his life back on track, going to night school, so he's the "Adam" of the film.  He protects the "Jenny" of the film.

You get the idea, in EVERY Friday Film after the first few, an Adam and Jenny survive... although in part 8 you might argue it's an Adam and a Deb (Rennie was kind of bookish)

Lechappa is universally worse than Deb across all stats that matter except repair which they are both 10 at.  He's 1 point slower, 1 point less stamina, 1 point less stealth, 1 point less composure, he has more strength and like 1 more point of luck.  There's no reason to play him instead of Deb if you're looking for a repair focused character to help your team

Never said he was better, just said he's a viable option...

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Just now, Ralph Wiggum777 said:

Never said he was better, just said he's a viable option...

and unless you have a person who is like "I refuse to play a girl character!" there is 0 reason to pick him over Deb, which is why he's so rarely picked.

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I kind of find the idea that the male counselors not being as good as the female counselors as an actual complaint kind of comical to be honest. 

The final girl is a big part of the horror genre and with the exception of Tommy Jarvis' run they've been a driving force of the F13 franchise as well. I fail to see how this is a problem.

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6 minutes ago, vehiclesshockme said:

I kind of find the idea that the male counselors not being as good as the female counselors as an actual complaint kind of comical to be honest. 

The final girl is a big part of the horror genre and with the exception of Tommy Jarvis' run they've been a driving force of the F13 franchise as well. I fail to see how this is a problem.

It's more of an issue that there's pretty much no reason to play a male counselor unless you want a stun.

sure, it may be kind of true to the movies. But it's not good for gameplay.

The only time I played a male counselor was Kenny. And that was only to unlock AJ.

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Just now, lHeartBreakerl said:

It's more of an issue that there's pretty much no reason to play a male counselor unless you want a stun.

sure, it may be kind of true to the movies. But it's not good for gameplay.

The only time I played a male counselor was Kenny. And that was only to unlock AJ.

I rotate my counselors pretty regularly and I've probably had most of my escapes as Lachappa. 

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1 minute ago, vehiclesshockme said:

I rotate my counselors pretty regularly and I've probably had most of my escapes as Lachappa. 

True that.

I find repair to be the most useful Stat overall. So that limits me to about 3 counselors lmao.

which isn't a problem. I'm sure others could care less about repair. Variety is good.

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1 minute ago, lHeartBreakerl said:

True that.

I find repair to be the most useful Stat overall. So that limits me to about 3 counselors lmao.

Repair is my favorite stat as well. 

I think a lot of things boil down to how you're using characters though. I've gotten a lot of good play out of Adam as well but he works best when you're in a group. Stunning is really beneficial when there are other people around and you're working on an escape together. If you're predominantly solo the female counselors often better suit your needs but working as a group I find the guys pretty necessary.

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3 minutes ago, vehiclesshockme said:

I kind of find the idea that the male counselors not being as good as the female counselors as an actual complaint kind of comical to be honest. 

The final girl is a big part of the horror genre and with the exception of Tommy Jarvis' run they've been a driving force of the F13 franchise as well. I fail to see how this is a problem.

"with the exception of Tommy Jarvis"*

*and Nick (part 7), and Sean Robertson (part 8), and Steven Freeman (Jason Goes to Hell), and Tsunaron (Jason X), and Will Rollins (Freddy vs Jason), and Clay Miller (2009)

There's more Friday the 13th movies with a male/female pair of heroes surviving than Fridays with solo female heroine survivors..

In fact, we don't know what happened to Paul Holt in part 2, he may have survived as well, it was never made clear.

Paul Holt, Rick (part 3), and Rob Dier (part 4) are Kenny Tropes, and they die or we don't know what happened to them.  Nick and the other heroes from the later Friday the 13ths are Adam tropes, well maybe Tsunaron is a Lechappa?  I forget.  It's been awhile since I saw that one it's the only F13 movie I don't own.

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8 minutes ago, lHeartBreakerl said:

It's more of an issue that there's pretty much no reason to play a male counselor unless you want a stun.

sure, it may be kind of true to the movies. But it's not good for gameplay.

The only time I played a male counselor was Kenny. And that was only to unlock AJ.

Strength doesn't matter for stuns.

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