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Pappus

Junkyard Gladiator - Striking fear into Jason

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A viewer made this nice compilation and I thought it would be a good pointer as to what is possible even by yourself.

It is needless to say that Jason becomes absolutely weak against 2-3 councellors on this skilllevel, but for the true mortal combat feeling 1vs1 is best.

 

If you have questions about combat against Jason just ask ahead I can answer pretty much everything and will gladly do so.

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Was watching some of your vids. Learned a lot about the mechanics of avoiding shift/grab and also about hiding from Jason's sense.

I also had NO IDEA that Jason can walk over traps in combat stance without setting them off! Totally gonna use that. :)

Good videos man! Thanks!

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Combat stance is very useful. Try using it to take doors down, takes half the time. 

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Very impressive and informative! Hopefully the devs don't change too much about what's working here - it's refreshing to see whats possible at the top tier skill limit. It seems like the best way to get around Jason's grab is to circlestrafe him and attack after he exposes himself. How can you tell when Jason will respond to your combat stance with attacks instead of just grabbing you? I see you opening yourself up to grabs a lot in this video - are you reading that he goes into combat stance himself before you do that?

What are your thoughts about the current balance of the game (if you put yourself below your level of skill and imagine it for the average game)? Your thoughts about this are really valuable. What suggestions would you make to the developers?

What do you think about the grab meter and instakills? Obviously, they have their place in the current meta of the game, especially when it is possible to dish as much abuse to Jason as you are showing, but do instakills seem like an oversight from the devs? It seems as though they were relying on the need for Jason to get room to make a kill, but it's also obvious that Jason can just flick the mouse to perform instant executions. Your typical player still seems to think there is a secret algorithm determining the amount of time they can struggle - not an indicator of a well designed feature to me.

I have been arguing for 40 posts now that instakills make 3 game mechanics obsolete in the average game:

  • the grab meter, and the point of struggling
  • counselors saving each other
  • Jason using combat mode for what it was actually intended for. Its much easier to grab someone than take a swing at them

Do you think using combat mode to avoid traps and take down doors faster is an exploit or an unintended game feature? In both situations, it seems hard to argue the latter (but as long as its in the game, I say abuse it to bring attention to it).

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It is needless to say that Jason becomes absolutely weak against 2-3 councellors on this skilllevel,

Oh boy, are you going to get some pushback for that.

I've been trying to insist that Jason can be chain-stunned and kept on the ground for a logn time if a group of 2-3 counselors coordinate, and I've been assured that is just a joke, Jason is too OP for that to ever happen.

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Great video, that was really cool. I feel sorry for those Jasons :D.

But i dont think that it works very good against skilled Jasons, it would not work against me(im not a pro).  Would like to test it out if you can stop me as well.^^

-----

Yea you can't stun chain Jason, because you can use your shift in the recovery animation as Jason to avoid them.

 

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4 hours ago, raf1ki said:

Very impressive and informative! Hopefully the devs don't change too much about what's working here - it's refreshing to see whats possible at the top tier skill limit. It seems like the best way to get around Jason's grab is to circlestrafe him and attack after he exposes himself. How can you tell when Jason will respond to your combat stance with attacks instead of just grabbing you? I see you opening yourself up to grabs a lot in this video - are you reading that he goes into combat stance himself before you do that?

What are your thoughts about the current balance of the game (if you put yourself below your level of skill and imagine it for the average game)? Your thoughts about this are really valuable. What suggestions would you make to the developers?

What do you think about the grab meter and instakills? Obviously, they have their place in the current meta of the game, especially when it is possible to dish as much abuse to Jason as you are showing, but do instakills seem like an oversight from the devs? It seems as though they were relying on the need for Jason to get room to make a kill, but it's also obvious that Jason can just flick the mouse to perform instant executions. Your typical player still seems to think there is a secret algorithm determining the amount of time they can struggle - not an indicator of a well designed feature to me.

I have been arguing for 40 posts now that instakills make 3 game mechanics obsolete in the average game:

  • the grab meter, and the point of struggling
  • counselors saving each other
  • Jason using combat mode for what it was actually intended for. Its much easier to grab someone than take a swing at them

Do you think using combat mode to avoid traps and take down doors faster is an exploit or an unintended game feature? In both situations, it seems hard to argue the latter (but as long as its in the game, I say abuse it to bring attention to it).

Part of fighting an opponent is conditioning, if your opponent already tried to grab you e.g. 10 times and you flat out knocked him down everytime the chances are high that he will stop. Those are just small clips of longer combat scenes (heck some fights go 12 minutes straight).

The balance of this game is councellor favored to a point that the game is boring even against the most tryhard of Jasons. Jason destroys everything 1vs1, but as soon as 2-3 competent councellors gather up he can't do anything any longer. Everything a Jason does can be retaliated against and even if he uses certain block glitches that would normally make combat against him obsolete you can override it with DPS car.

Saving each other against grabs is not a problem just dont run alone and practice it. Rescuing someone is probably more a ping issue than it is a technical issue.

There is really no solution that is easy for the current balance if they take away the lethality of grabs then that means I can safely 1vs1 any Jason at any point and if I can do it so could technically the 6 other councellors in the match. For now it would probably best to have everyone simply spawn with a pocket knife per default. Jason was designed with a significant lack of gaming experience and it shows everywhere.

I have offered the devs help to avoid the situation we actually have today and they refused since they thought they can do a better job. Now we have exactly this and if they want to fix their game they know whom to reach out to. Meanwhile I am busy refining tech you dont see in this compilation yet :)

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12 minutes ago, Pappus said:

Those are just small clips of longer combat scenes (heck some fights go 12 minutes straight).

Could you give some links to those long, long fight scenes? There are some threads I've been asked to show evidence of Jason getting dominated by counselors.

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1 minute ago, HodderFodder said:

Could you give some links to those long, long fight scenes? There are some threads I'd like to show them as evidence of Jason getting stunlocked.

https://www.twitch.tv/pappusgaming/manager/highlights

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/150579097

 

Most stuff is not highlighted really and just happens on the stream and is forgotten. I don't really stunlock in a 1vs1 yet though I just reset and outplay again

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Pappus said:

https://www.twitch.tv/pappusgaming/manager/highlights

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/150579097

Most stuff is not highlighted really and just happens on the stream and is forgotten. I don't really stunlock in a 1vs1 yet though I just reset and outplay again

First link gets "You are not the editor of this channel".

Anyways, was looking for video of 2-3 counselors vs. Jason keeping him down.

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Just now, HodderFodder said:

First link gets "You are not the editor of this channel".

Anyways, was looking for video of 2-3 counselors vs. Jason keeping him down.

https://www.twitch.tv/pappusgaming/videos/all

I dont think I ever highlighted 2-3 with a stunlock since that is not really exciting but more like that is what is supposed to happen there. There is the scene where we use the car for the first time to induce a stunchain.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/148188156

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8 hours ago, Pappus said:

A viewer made this nice compilation and I thought it would be a good pointer as to what is possible even by yourself.

It is needless to say that Jason becomes absolutely weak against 2-3 councellors on this skilllevel, but for the true mortal combat feeling 1vs1 is best.

 

If you have questions about combat against Jason just ask ahead I can answer pretty much everything and will gladly do so.

This was super interesting,  thanks for the share. I'm also a big fan of the swing my bat as Jason Morphs/Shifts at me. Nothing more satisfying then putting the big man on his arse as he comes out of an ability. 

The video demonstrates some cool possibilities,  but it does look set up through 75% of the video. So using these tactics in a legitimate game isn't always gonna be the best call.

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9 minutes ago, Slashin' Passion said:

This was super interesting,  thanks for the share. I'm also a big fan of the swing my bat as Jason Morphs/Shifts at me. Nothing more satisfying then putting the big man on his arse as he comes out of an ability. 

The video demonstrates some cool possibilities,  but it does look set up through 75% of the video. So using these tactics in a legitimate game isn't always gonna be the best call.

There is nothing setup. Everything is quickplay

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Should Jason be able to block counselors from every direction when he blocks? What if Jason's combat mode was replaced with his blocking move, making it easier for him to block?

I strongly disagree that every counselor should start with a knife. That would pretty much ruin the game.

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But but... shift grab and regular grab are so OP! They need to nerf it so it has a 3-7 second cooldown between grabs!!!! Screw that, Jason shouldn't be able to kill at all so counselors can escape easier!

Kidding aside, awesome video. Been trying to tell people to learn how to avoid the shift grab instead of demanding a nerf.

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24 minutes ago, raf1ki said:

Should Jason be able to block counselors from every direction when he blocks? What if Jason's combat mode was replaced with his blocking move, making it easier for him to block?

I strongly disagree that every counselor should start with a knife. That would pretty much ruin the game.

The starting knife serves two purposes: Extra chance if you are caught early, and as a tool to remove traps. Currently nobody in their right mind gives the pocket knife for a trap. If everyone spawns with one they might and jasons might go more into swinging or have to accept that the first grab wont always be a kill.

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That's ridiculous. What about the Jasons who start with only a couple of traps? And you just showed how ineffective Jason is in combat compared to his strength with grabs. If counselors are vastly overpowered to Jason as you claim, why should we make them stronger?

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