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6 minutes ago, Neonseraphim said:

Yes 0% chance even with Jenny+scape artist Rare 15%, no fear executed, me at lvl 60, Jason came (assuming stalk+shift) out of the nowhere choked me instant kill.  I do not have a chance.  You my friend, you are just delusional and willingly choose to ignore the problem.

How about you pay attention to what I was replying to before you go off?

I was responding to someone who said there is 0% chance to escape in this game. Not 0% chance to escape grabs. He was saying escaping in general. 

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3 hours ago, iz2sick said:

How about you pay attention to what I was replying to before you go off?

I was responding to someone who said there is 0% chance to escape in this game. Not 0% chance to escape grabs. He was saying escaping in general. 

Yes if he is talking in general, that also includes grabs, which I'm remaining in context to what this topic is about.  The context of this topic is not scaping the scenario but, read the title, Balance Concern: Jason Grab.  My statement was indeed within its context and had a good sample that added value.  

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I'm not sure if I've commented on this thread before but I really agree with the idea that combat stance should block grabs, or something similar.

I seem to have a lot of games where Jason just follows you while spamming the grab button, until he does the force and gravity pulls you into his hand. Obviously you can run, but when it comes to things like escaping in a vehicle and or via police, it gets a bit silly then.

I've just had a game where an AJ who had no stamina got grabbed, and a beginner Jenny kept hitting him the entire time in combat stance which did nothing, then he just turned around and within half a second she got grabbed too. I was ready to get in the car, I had two pocket knives, he grabbed me through a sofa, then once I had a baseball bat, I went into combat stance and went to hit him as he came round the cornner and before it could completely connect with him he just pressed grab again, and it instantly ate my attacks up and he just went ahead and instant choked me.

I'm not the best player but I'm learning everyday.

Having combat stance being immune to grabs till injured is a bit risky but I know it would be a step in the right direction.

Counselors have rarely any use for combat stance, it's only main use is to get prepared to hit Jason as soon as he breaks down a door, but this is defeated when people who like to play Jason in the cheapest way possible break every door down in combat stance.

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8 hours ago, MidnightCallerXx said:

[...]

Counselors have rarely any use for combat stance, it's only main use is to get prepared to hit Jason as soon as he breaks down a door, but this is defeated when people who like to play Jason in the cheapest way possible break every door down in combat stance.

A tip: don't use melee at all unless you really have to (and you have a knife), or you have a safe, guaranteed stun (for example, you attack Jason with baseball bat during the walk-through-door/wall animation), or if you have a group with you.

 

Groups of counselors are ridiculously powerful if everyone has a good stun weapon (never use a machete for stunning, for instance) and they surround Jason. The group should lock on him in combat stance to avoid hitting each other blindly. If Jason attacks or grabs someone, it's an instant stun as long as the group manages their timing and the targeted members know how to block. A group can easily keep Jason permanently down for as long as their weapons last or until Jason morphs away. If the group is big enough, counselors can even get weapon replacements from nearby houses one by one when the old ones break.

Jason can't afford to be at all weaker in combat situations. Managing Jason in a good group is so easy it's boring. The game is trying to stay true to the movies; actively seeking a fight with Jason shouldn't be a viable tactic, as it is right now for a well coordinating group.

 

All that being said, I think Jason's grabs are perfect at the moment. I wouldn't mind if the reach was decreased, but that's it. Insta kills are an important way of managing the not-so-experienced gangs where the counselors have accidentally given Jason too much breathing room. A kill usually breaks the spirit of the gang and they scatter around aimlessly or proceed to desperately to start the nearby car. The insta kills are also essential when you should be killing and stopping a vehicle at the same time.

I do agree that some stats are very imbalanced to others in their usefulness. The grab breaking effect of composure and strength are fairly useless against most Jasons. However, I wouldn't change the grab mechanics themselves to fix this as they have their important places in the game. Instead, I would modify the bonuses so that context kills would be better rewarded than they are now or maybe by adding penalties for using the same kills over and over.

The most effective way would be, in my opinion, to remove the current bonuses for context kills and kill variety and reshape them into a more concrete goal or feat. We could have an achievement or a badge as well as a bonus for killing every counselor with a different kill, for example. This feat would have a hefty reward and it could be introduced to the players through the loading screen tips as an optional goal. It should be treated almost as if it were Jason's alternative to the optional goal of killing Jason as the counselors. The key is to make it something worth achieving and to advertise it as a predefined feat. Then maybe people would devote a little more time for individual kills and 'E' smash would become a little more useful. Insta kills would remain as they are to cover the instances where they are a must. This wouldn't force anyone to change their playstyle, either, but would direct them to consider a goal that is truer to the movies: Jason tends to be a rather creative killer. 

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1 hour ago, D00las said:

Jason can't afford to be at all weaker in combat situations. Managing Jason in a good group is so easy it's boring. The game is trying to stay true to the movies; actively seeking a fight with Jason shouldn't be a viable tactic, as it is right now for a well coordinating group.

I didn't mean that Jason should be weaker in combat, I meant that it should only be fair and logical, his grab goes through all attacks making it look and feel so ridiculous and laughable. And because his grab length is extremely long and he doesn't even have to touch you it starts feeling more like the movie Paranomal Activity.

e9960a8e-12b7-447a-86ea-0d6e7fd288f3.gif

Even when I'm playing as Jason I feel like most of the times that I grab it just feels unfair, unless they are stationary. I try to single out people in groups because it seems a bit silly to go head first into a group as Jason.

I mostly play as Vanessa, she is the strongest female, and is very fast, so I can manage to get through matches keeping Jason distracted. But if I am the last one left and I have run out options, you want to fight for your survival.

===

I understand staying true to the movies so I have this clip from one of them (This is the best example I could find)

**Warning, Gore and other gross stuff**

I'm only talking about the first 45 seconds, I have not seen a lot of the Friday the 13th movies so there may have been parts leading up to this moment I have missed, this clip was shown to me among others by a friend who is a huge fan of the series, So there may of been parts I've missed in this movie, but during the first 45 seconds it seems like she's not teleporting into his hand everytime he tries to grab, then when Jason tries to grab her as she goes to hit him with the weapon it splits his hand in half, once that happens, she makes an escape, calls up the stairs and then attempts to hit Jason when he isn't grabbing and it hurts him but not a lot and she ends up getting grabbed after.

This should be what fighting Jason in game should be like because it makes sense and makes better use of the combat system. Jason should have the upperhand in most situations but not every situation. Even in this scene she is backing away and Jason is still strong and not weak.

Jasons attacks should be able to overpower a counselor if they are hitting or not, that's why a counselor can dodge, but a grab should only be able to effect counselors who are close and not attacking.

I know a lot of people can argue that they need the grab distance otherwise counselors can just keep running away, which is a very fair point, but they should honestly find a way to keep Jason that lethal and have it make sense.

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8 hours ago, D00las said:

All that being said, I think Jason's grabs are perfect at the moment. I wouldn't mind if the reach was decreased, but that's it. Insta kills are an important way of managing the not-so-experienced gangs where the counselors have accidentally given Jason too much breathing room. A kill usually breaks the spirit of the gang and they scatter around aimlessly or proceed to desperately to start the nearby car. The insta kills are also essential when you should be killing and stopping a vehicle at the same time.

We are not complaining about the 1 hit kill grabs from pulling out of a car, or boat for that matter.  It is the cheap exploited grabs that Jason will do over and over to kill everyone in the map as quickly as possible.  It is an overpowered move, cheap, and exploited.  That is what needs to be looked over.  Boat and car are perfectly fine since that counselor already has a chance to scape the scene.  

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Ugh! Some players whine about Jason's grab. Others whine about hacking Jasons. Make up your minds people!:rolleyes:

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Sorry for the confusion, I intended to address only the very beginning of my post to you, @MidnightCallerXx, The rest were my musings on the topic in general. Oh, and the video you linked doesn't seem to work. It says it's private.

But yeah. The characters tend to fight back a little but as you said, it's part of them getting away from the killer. However, I don't think this would work in the game. If the fighting mechanics were to be changed at all in the counselors' favor, they would be abused to deliberately troll Jason rather than as means of escape. And if a counselor can survive a one-on-one stand-off with Jason, just what would be the consequences in a Jason vs. a gang of counselors fight? And as I said earlier, I wouldn't mind reducing the reach of Jason's grab.

54 minutes ago, Neonseraphim said:

We are not complaining about the 1 hit kill grabs from pulling out of a car, or boat for that matter.  It is the cheap exploited grabs that Jason will do over and over to kill everyone in the map as quickly as possible.  It is an overpowered move, cheap, and exploited.  That is what needs to be looked over.  Boat and car are perfectly fine since that counselor already has a chance to scape the scene.  

I didn't mention those specific kills at all. The game is hectic and a speeding car is out of the map in no time. If the kills were prolonged in time, you wouldn't have the time to deal with a car that someone starts at the same time as you grab someone else, somewhere else. Kills have to be fast for a scenario where you are fighting a whole group, as well.

Care to clarify what you consider an exploited grab? Shift-grab? Long reach grabs? Grabs in general?

And if you had read all of my post, you would have noticed I addressed the "grabs that Jason will do over and over to kill everyone in the map as quickly as possible".

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On 7/26/2017 at 8:48 AM, tyrant666 said:

It would be nearly impossible for Jason to kill someone under those new conditions with grab if he were facing a well organized group of counselors.

Yeah it would be. So your system could never be implemented.

There are just too many things your new affects. For starters I like the idea of grip strength. Completely getting rid of that stat would make certain Jason's better to pick than others. That's how the game is right now, considering that Jason can just pick up, then choke. I think your ideas would changing the game into something it is not, I just like original system better, but it certainly needs some tinkering-- a lot of tinkering.

I do like the idea, but as stated already, I like the concept of being able to save teammates when they are grabbed. Taking that out of the game, effectively gives counselors no incentive to hang out together. As for right now, on Xbox, composure determines how quickly you character's screen goes black and how big the chunks are per button mash when you try to break free (in conjunction with pro/con of grip strength the Jason holding you has)-- complete fear causes issues like stumbling and not being able to shoot or melee.

My problem with the game right now is that composure is not a useful stat (primarily because Jason can just execute as soon as he wants to after a state of invulnerability) thus the game is mal-balanced.  I think escaping from Jason's grab should be impacted by strength and fear, not solely composure.

[***Also I've been told there is some sort of design flaw with composure. Apparently it takes longer to get full fear, but it also takes longer to get rid of fear-- and that is fundamentally idiotic. https://fridaythe13th.gamepedia.com/Composure]

Thus all players using counselors with a decent strength stat, who also manage that counselor's fear level appropriately, could escape from Jason's grab more easily. What I think is that Jason should have a mandatory timer before he can press an execution button. Aside from that, nobody wants Jason to so weak that he can be overwhelmed by too many counselors together, so I think Jason needs a longer 'stun protection' timer.  

As the game currently stands when Jason is stunned he can't use his abilities-- after this phase when he can use all of his abilities again, for about three seconds he has complete stun protection. I think this stun protection should be made about five seconds long, that way, after a counselor stuns Jason Jason can't immediately be stunned again (which is usually the fault of unskilled players who are not good at acting quickly).

It seems a lot of players right now are overly concerned with "stun locking" Jason. Personally I have never experienced this myself, even though I have gone against a group of confident counselors who have swarmed me and tried to do so. I don't think most players know that Jason has stun protection.

 

Also bud, you need to work on your grammar. 

On 7/26/2017 at 8:22 AM, tyrant666 said:

counselors can no longer help the person whose grabbed

who is grabbed

Edited by Pikalicious
Typos

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2 hours ago, D00las said:

Sorry for the confusion, I intended to address only the very beginning of my post to you, @MidnightCallerXx, The rest were my musings on the topic in general. Oh, and the video you linked doesn't seem to work. It says it's private.

But yeah. The characters tend to fight back a little but as you said, it's part of them getting away from the killer. However, I don't think this would work in the game. If the fighting mechanics were to be changed at all in the counselors' favor, they would be abused to deliberately troll Jason rather than as means of escape. And if a counselor can survive a one-on-one stand-off with Jason, just what would be the consequences in a Jason vs. a gang of counselors fight? And as I said earlier, I wouldn't mind reducing the reach of Jason's grab.

The video was where Trish (I think that's her name) splits Jasons hand down the middle because he tries to grab her while she is attacking. :)

It's not at all making the game in the counselors favour, it wouldn't turn Jason into a dainty fairy or turn the counselors into world heavyweight champions, It would just make it seem more realistic and stop Jason players just endlessly abusing the grab button while counselors are pulled through different objects using his crazy weapon eating grab. :lol:

I have learned to deal with instant kills because sometimes they are needed and I can see it from a Jason players point of view. I can deal with Jason slashing because I can move out the way of it just as he can with my attacks. But I really don't see Jason grabbing without coming into close contact with a counselor or using a grab as a way of moving through a counselors attack as a viable mechanic.

I adore this game but I would rather play a Friday the 13th game that looks and feels real and has more fun than frustration and I'm sure a lot of people would agree. Instead of a game where people are always absolutely dumbfounded because "Jason grabbed them round the corner" or when they say "How did he get grabbed, we just saw him hit Jason", people seem more frustrated about how they died rather than them actually being killed.

Just a short anecdote, I remember I was escaping from the police and as I left the out of bounds area to the police that Jason could not go, he managed to grab me through that and kill me, which goes to show his grab is long enough to reach out of bounds areas. But the game registered me as escaped and so it should, that's why the Jason player is still alive till this day. <_<

I have no problem being killed aslong as I make Jason work for it, but to see it happen to people other than me just ticks me off a bit because it's such an undeserving way to die and the only plausible explanation is just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

anigif_enhanced-buzz-11478-1371575358-4.

 

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On 7/26/2017 at 11:50 AM, iz2sick said:

How about you pay attention to what I was replying to before you go off?

I was responding to someone who said there is 0% chance to escape in this game. Not 0% chance to escape grabs. He was saying escaping in general. 

Well I all fairness, I think there is a 0% chance to escape for counselors because of how overpowered Jason. And lots of people agree with me that he is overpowered. And yes, I genuinely do still feel like there is a 0% chance of survival for counselors if Jason knows how to play the game correctly and well. You tele to the first solo counselor and kill him with the first three minutes-- you trap the windows and break them. Once he is dead, you tele and kill the next unfortunate soul as fast as possible, typically by expending shift. Two people dead. Rinse and repeat. There is no skill involved in using Jason. If counselors stick together I still find that I don't get over whelmed (which seems to be a big concern for some people on this forum).

I'm not saying I don't see people escape, I'm saying I don't see people escape on when I'm Jason. And if people played like I do, there would never be an escapees, ever. To me, that's not a good thing. That means the game is not balanced appropriately.

And considering the game is still broken on Xbox, there exists literally no reason to play this game. It will either crash, you spawn as Jason and have no fun, or spawn as counselor and die and spectate and have no fun.

Do I need to post Jason footage for you? You seem to hate my opinions a lot. You even game?

 

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1 minute ago, Pikalicious said:

Well I all fairness, I think there is a 0% chance to escape for counselors because of how overpowered Jason. And lots of people agree with me that he is overpowered. And yes, I genuinely do still feel like there is a 0% chance of survival for counselors if Jason knows how to play the game correctly and well. You tele to the first solo counselor and kill him with the first three minutes-- you trap the windows and break them. Once he is dead, you tele and kill the next unfortunate soul as fast as possible, typically by expending shift. Two people dead. Rinse and repeat. There is no skill involved in using Jason. If counselors stick together I still find that I don't get over whelmed (which seems to be a big concern for some people on this forum).

I'm not saying I don't see people escape, I'm saying I don't see people escape on when I'm Jason. And if people played like I do, there would never be an escapees, ever. To me, that's not a good thing. That means the game is not balanced appropriately.

And considering the game is still broken on Xbox, there exists literally no reason to play this game. It will either crash, you spawn as Jason and have no fun, or spawn as counselor and die and spectate and have no fun.

Do I need to post Jason footage for you? You seem to hate my opinions a lot. You even game?

 

Look, no one cares about your super perfect Jason gameplay. I play with several groups of great players. Even the best Jasons have counselors escape on them once in a while. 

And in reality, I'm in the camp that says Jason needs tweaking. I just don't argue my points with absurd comments like I'm the best broJason who out bros counselors who try to bro me. 

Look at the thread I made about Jason's trap stacking. Oh no, trap stacking is completely fine. Otherwise it's too easy for counselors to escape. 

And in this thread, a bunch of people say counselors can't escape at all. Make up your minds people.

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17 minutes ago, iz2sick said:

Look, no one cares about your super perfect Jason gameplay

Regardless, it is evidence for why I think Jason is stupidly balanced. And no, I don't have counselors escape on me. Just becuase you think you're good, doesn't mean there isn't someone in the world better than you. Call my comment absurd, but it is true-- unfortunately because I don't play this game anymore.

Jason needs more than a tweaking. He was broken last time I played, and considering Xbox hasn't had an update since then-- the game is in the same exact state. He needs a serious nerf. All of his mechanics need to be looked into. I have no idea what trap stacking is but I'll take your word for it.

Counselors only escape when Jason is incompetent. Jason needs to be difficult to escape, not impossible.

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4 hours ago, iz2sick said:

Even the best Jasons have counselors escape on them once in a while.

I agree with your statement. Even the best Jason will miss a counselor eventually. On the flip side, even the best counselor will be killed by Jason one day. No one stays on top forever. For those who have a 100% success record as a counselor or Jason, here's some food for thought:

1. You could be playing against less experienced players. (How likely would someone lose to a player that is just learning the game?)

2. There could be cheating involved, (Glitching, Jason helpers, Team killers, etc.)

3. Someone could be lying.

There could be other reasons that don't come to mind at this moment.

As far as this topic is concerned, Jason probably needs a tweak here or there. As I am just a voice in the chorus, I won't begin to presume that I have all the answers to this issue. There are many well-spoken individuals who are wiser than I on the subject.

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We are not asking to make Jason super weak.  We are asking for balance.  Right now it is the grabs because they ruin the flavor of the game because it is becoming what Jason players do continually. They just spam the grab button like jason had no other forms of attacks.  I was today standing almost the behind Jason and Jason pulled a grab which was successful even thou I was opposite to his arm and 1hit killed me within two minutes of the game, I did not liked it so I quit that room and went to join another because it was not worth my time.  It really does a serious negative impact.  

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On 6/9/2017 at 3:06 PM, iz2sick said:

Anyway, I'm not opposed to a minor delay between grabs. I'm simply saying 3-7 seconds is overkill. And there sort of is a delay anyway. Jason stumbles a bit after a missed grab. That's an animation delay. Add another half second if it's that big a deal. But not 3-7. Be reasonable with your suggestions.

I agree. I think there should be some of a delay between grabs, but 3 seconds is a bit much.

I just get tired of Jason missing grabs, and then (because of his ability to repeatedly spam grab until he reaches you) he can get you after 5 or 6 tries. If we aren't going to tinker with the ability to spam grab, fix grabs so that Jason can't grab you from around corners, and get rid of that Stretch Armstrong radius. I can't tell you how many times I've been grabbed when I was 2 - 3 yards away from him.

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