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1 hour ago, SNaKe_ said:

Yup - every attack Jason does should have a counter from the counsellors - haven't you guys noticed what badasses the counsellors always are in the movies? I really think if someone gets grabbed they should just have a mini game like repairing things but with only 1 big timing press to hit, and then Jason should get kicked in the nuts so hard that he is automatically teleported back to his shack for 5 min to ice em down. 

I kind of hate seeing this. I've been watching the movies, marathoning them lately so they are all fresh in my head. For the majority of the movies, Jason uses stealth to kill targets. But when he reveals himself he frequently fails to kill people he has grabbed, or is attempting to attack. And gets knocked about almost like it's some slapstick comedy movie. I'll admit he did get a lot stronger during and after the 6th movie. But people who try to use the movies as an excuse for how no one should get away is just false. As most who have seen Jason in the movies tend to get away when they actually try to do so. Those who don't which is probably where the Stalk ability even comes from tend to die instantly, with no chance to fight back. Also Jason uses weapons/attacks people far more often than he grabs. End Rant here...lol

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There are two major issues: combat in general and the large area in which a grab can be successful, which requires little to no accuracy at all.

The combat system is just flat out clumsy. For a counselor to hit Jason with a weapon they need to be pretty damn accurate. The same is not true for the grabs. I recorded a vid the other day in which I swing a weapon THROUGH Jason several times at point blank range, and didn't register a hit at all. Jason's grab, however, with its forgiving trigger area, doesn't miss, even when well out of range. That is a problem that needs addressed. Cut the range of the grab and tighten up the wonky combat system and the rest falls into place. Jason would have to actually strategize. As powerful as he needs to be, the player still needs to be challenged. As it stands now, this game is no more than a glorified Pac Man with actual players playing the power pellets.

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On 6/12/2017 at 3:35 PM, BloodyNights said:

 As most who have seen Jason in the movies tend to get away when they actually try to do so. Those who don't which is probably where the Stalk ability even comes from tend to die instantly, with no chance to fight back. Also Jason uses weapons/attacks people far more often than he grabs. End Rant here...lol

Wait - you're saying people who fight Jason normally die? Wtf? I thought if you fight Jason it means he has little chance to kill you? 

* edit

Nvm I realized I read wrong - I'll admit it's been over 10-15 years since I saw a f13 movie other than bits and pieces of Jason x when it's been on tv - I just remember everyone dies besides the last 1-2 people who barely escape - and people running away, Jason walking after, only to wind up in front of them and then it's axe/machete time.

 

On 6/12/2017 at 6:38 PM, ZombieMeerkat said:

There are two major issues: combat in general and the large area in which a grab can be successful, which requires little to no accuracy at all.

The combat system is just flat out clumsy. For a counselor to hit Jason with a weapon they need to be pretty damn accurate. The same is not true for the grabs. I recorded a vid the other day in which I swing a weapon THROUGH Jason several times at point blank range, and didn't register a hit at all. Jason's grab, however, with its forgiving trigger area, doesn't miss, even when well out of range. That is a problem that needs addressed. Cut the range of the grab and tighten up the wonky combat system and the rest falls into place. Jason would have to actually strategize. As powerful as he needs to be, the player still needs to be challenged. As it stands now, this game is no more than a glorified Pac Man with actual players playing the power pellets.

I had the same swinging through targets as Jason when playing with some brits where my ping was 200+ ms. Lag causes strange issues like that and it doesn't help being p2p when the host has a bad conn or is halfway around the world. The combat system, I think, was not anticipated that people would think it's a good idea to fight Jason in the first place.

Edited by SNaKe_

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The grab mechanic needs work in my opinion as well. When Jason is on me and I haven't found a pocket knife (which are more rare than unicorns), I generally just try to waste a little of Jason's time but I don't bother fighting back. Trying to melee is pointless because he will spam grab you out of it and insta kill. Combat stance and combat oriented counselors are pointless because of this. I certainly don't waste my energy trying to spam the escape button as that literally has never come close to working for me. Once I see the grab land I just put my controller down and do something else till the match is over... I don't even pay attention to the kill animations anymore. I know Jason is supposed to be OP, but that is a fine line to balance on when making a video game... Not OP enough and you have a watered down Jason that isn't very threatening, but too much OP and it just doesn't make for a very good video game or fun tense action for the counselors. I hope they can get this right before too many people lose interest in the game and it dies out. The grab/escape mechanic along with combat would be a great place to start. 

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It's not the fact that he can grab while teleporting that's the problem it's the fact that when Jason teleport he grab me even after I ran 3 whole steps from where he teleported whenever that happen I just quit before he get the kill

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55 minutes ago, Ol'UnReliable said:

It's not the fact that he can grab while teleporting that's the problem it's the fact that when Jason teleport he grab me even after I ran 3 whole steps from where he teleported whenever that happen I just quit before he get the kill

That's not cool man. Because the game has a broken mechanic at this moment, you're robbing someone of their points? The player might not even know how broken his grab reach is.

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I think the idea about Jason not being able to grab you until your injured or unable to grab you in combat stance until injured is a really great idea.

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7 hours ago, iz2sick said:

That's not cool man. Because the game has a broken mechanic at this moment, you're robbing someone of their points? The player might not even know how broken his grab reach is.

I only quit when Jason have a friend in the game leading him to me after I give him a chase

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28 minutes ago, Ol'UnReliable said:

I only quit when Jason have a friend in the game leading him to me after I give him a chase

In that case, quit all you want lol. Carry on my good sir.

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Nerfing Jason isn't a good idea considering currently he is weak in the late game.

With late game I mean against counselors who have leveld up a bit and know about the game. Jason does not get better stats no matter how long you play.

Its really difficult to kill someone with Dmg Resistance, Health Spray and Pocket Knives who uses environment (tables, stairs, windowlooping) to his advantage. If there is just 3 of them and they also know about the shotgun & telephone spawns then its gg no re.

People can easily disarm even double traps with their knives or just take the dmg and heal it.

Slashing at them does almost nothing. Grabbing is only possible with Shift even then you have to pretty much always hit it twice.

If you nerf Jason instead of getting a lot fewer kills you will get practically none in those scenarios.

I don't have a problem with good counselors being REALLY strong. Its a good reward for the players who put in time.

Problematic is just that Jason can't fight that properly, yet. He gets reduced to a doormat.

 

Changing grab is still an interesting idea. Make it feel fairer to play against for beginners. (Maybe composure button mashing actually works)

A Jason reward system that lets him scale would be good. Make his grab weaker than it currently is when not modified (so Jason's can't faceroll normal players like good high level counselors can facereoll Jason).

Give him a way though to increase his power. 

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9 hours ago, Mikil Krueger said:

Nerfing Jason isn't a good idea considering currently he is weak in the late game.

With late game I mean against counselors who have leveld up a bit and know about the game. Jason does not get better stats no matter how long you play.

Its really difficult to kill someone with Dmg Resistance, Health Spray and Pocket Knives who uses environment (tables, stairs, windowlooping) to his advantage. If there is just 3 of them and they also know about the shotgun & telephone spawns then its gg no re.

People can easily disarm even double traps with their starting knives or just take the dmg and heal it.

Slashing at them does almost nothing. Grabbing is only possible with Shift even then you have to pretty much always hit it twice.

If you nerf Jason instead of getting a lot fewer kills you will get practically none in those scenarios.

I don't have a problem with good counselors being REALLY strong. Its a good reward for the players who put in time.

Problematic is just that Jason can't fight that properly, yet. He gets reduced to a doormat.

 

Changing grab is still an interesting idea. Make it feel fairer to play against for beginners. (Maybe composure button mashing actually works)

A Jason reward system that lets him scale would be good. Make his grab weaker than it currently is when not modified (so Jason's can't faceroll normal players like good high level counselors can facereoll Jason).

Give him a way though to increase his power. 

Hmm I feel the opposite to be honest, I feel like the more experience Jason has, the more efficient he becomes. On average when I play him I kill around 6-7 counselors a game even if they are grouped up, and have pocket knives and flare guns galore. The lowest I've killed in recent memory is 4/8, and that was because I teleported to the phonebox, trapped it and waited for my morph to come back online. Afterwards I teleported to an electrical box and by that point the counselors had already found the all the parts needed for the 4 door and were basically gone before my shift was even available. Thanks to some hard core rng. It happens.

But for the most part I feel Jason is incredibly overpowered. If you are good with your shift ability, you can easily avoid traps, and weapons like flare guns, zip to enemies and grab them with your wtf range, or start bashing away at them with your weapon, which kind of stun locks to a certain degree. Usually on faster characters like Vanessa you get around two hits. But the biggest weapon I think in Jason's Arsenal is his bear traps. If you step in them Jason is immediately alerted, and he can teleport straight to them and basically kill them if he is competent. Or at the very least knows exactly where they are. Now they can use a pocket knife which are one of the rarest items I think, and are also the most valuable thanks to grab into insta kill. But Jason can also, look at the map and tell that his trap is gone, and teleport to the location anyways. But it's true that it may be too late by then. Luckily for Jason he can almost place traps on top of each other if you aim it right. Which almost counters using a pocket knife to disable the trap in the first place.

I love playing as Jason, I feel like a bad ass hunting down those silly camp counselors. However I truly do feel like he needs to be toned down. Maybe if I played in an mlg pro match with 8 highly competitive, completely cooperative teammates who played like money was on the line I'd feel different. But this isn't the norm, and it isn't what I've experienced as a counselor, or as Jason.

 

 

fff double post.

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6 hours ago, Fatalfox said:

I think the idea about Jason not being able to grab you until your injured or unable to grab you in combat stance until injured is a really great idea.

Its currently how I play Jason, I repeatedly hit a counsellor till injury then grab kill them if possible since I find it most fun. Obviously in the current format if you're being super efficient then grab spam is the way to go. But yeah I was feeling like that would be a potential work out with injuries. I mentioned this because its become rare to find an injured counsellor now and such situations are super atmospheric but now its just insta grabs so counsellors don't really get to experience tension. Jason players spamming the grab doesn't look scary and its funny. Its a huge part of why I want these changes more so than just because balance. Although balance needs addressing.

I remember on the "Crystal Lake" map I was playing as Tiffany and Jason hit me up really hard and I jumped through glass Windows and he chased someone else. I started "while injured looking for first aid, I went for a good few minutes injured and alone looking for help until Jason was finally on my back again. I got inside a cabin and hid in the toilet hoping for the best, an AJ player came inside the house and noticed I was in the toilet need help, they got in a when they saw me injured healed me and we were just seconds of getting away with the news she brought me of the car being ready. I had no walkie the entire time and was relieved. We lost one person with the car and I barely made it out.

These loveable horror and development moments with anxiety are all lost with Jasons grab. You cant be a hero in particular, you cant get battered up, you just die and leads to a lack of match development in the cases of heavy grab Jasons, which there are ALOT now.

2 hours ago, Mikil Krueger said:

Nerfing Jason isn't a good idea considering currently he is weak in the late game.

With late game I mean against counselors who have leveld up a bit and know about the game. Jason does not get better stats no matter how long you play.

Its really difficult to kill someone with Dmg Resistance, Health Spray and Pocket Knives who uses environment (tables, stairs, windowlooping) to his advantage. If there is just 3 of them and they also know about the shotgun & telephone spawns then its gg no re.

People can easily disarm even double traps with their starting knives or just take the dmg and heal it.

Slashing at them does almost nothing. Grabbing is only possible with Shift even then you have to pretty much always hit it twice.

If you nerf Jason instead of getting a lot fewer kills you will get practically none in those scenarios.

I don't have a problem with good counselors being REALLY strong. Its a good reward for the players who put in time.

Problematic is just that Jason can't fight that properly, yet. He gets reduced to a doormat.

 

Changing grab is still an interesting idea. Make it feel fairer to play against for beginners. (Maybe composure button mashing actually works)

A Jason reward system that lets him scale would be good. Make his grab weaker than it currently is when not modified (so Jason's can't faceroll normal players like good high level counselors can facereoll Jason).

Give him a way though to increase his power. 

Jason isn't weak late game, well to an extent.

I'm not entirely sure if you mean the game in general or a single match.

In a single match one thing Jason players find hard to accept is there are just some matches you are not meant to win as Jason, this applies to the counsellors too, obviously if their fate applies then it can have the alternate. Each counsellor will get what they need or they just wont, its kind of random so for everyone including Jason its making the most of the current setting. That and despite each match being its own movie it doesn't work like a move. As dumb as it sounds a movie is scripted, the game is not. Its the best way to say you know what happens in a move, but this is a movie with no definite ending between the two basics. Its something Jason and counsellors have to accept.

In late game in regards to developments of players getting perks more skilled etc. I agree Jason should potentially get some sort of enhancement, but I have to be frank, he's very well built as it is. It depends on the Jason, so perhaps considering your Jason for each lobby based on counsellors isn't so bad but obviously it isn't an instant answer, but this is also partly linked back to the previous, some matches just aren't meant to be. One thing I personally would vouch for is rage mode being somewhat stronger however. Like maybe all his damage inducing moves, knives, traps, normal hits all begin to do significantly higher damage? But I agree I don't believe in just changing one thing, obviously things have to be changed with the flow.

I honestly feel like Jason is highly based on the player behind him. It is a game, you are meant to play it I mean. Can't make Jason just literally walk through the map for example.

I mean if I personally had to say I think the intelligence stat needs to be made harder, its far too easy 5-7 stat points and it kinda devalues other counsellors a little. Considering it barley effects at a certain point. I think each point section of intelligence should be specifically designed if that's the right way to word it. But obviously this isn't on topic.

@iz2sick

"I'm fixated on it because you keep defending it lol. Nobody except one other person agrees with you on it. Look at some of the other threads. They mirror what I say about Jason in a scenario where he's against a group of counselors.

I wouldn't be fixated on this topic if you didn't keep defending the 3 second delay. A small delay wouldn't hurt anything except grab spammers. At most 1 second. 3 second just completely ruins how Jason plays in certain situations."

Since I couldn't quote you for some reason I did it myself. I hate to break it to you but you're the one who has been fixated. I created this topic with atmosphere and balance in mind. Grab spam doesn't look scary at all and I've broken down in tears in one match because of grab spam and I mean laughter.

Second of all, you act like I care with others agreeing? First of all you clearly didn't check enough, there's a lot of people who agree and disagree. With the purpose of a game even if my points are not the correct way to go about it sadly for you I'm in the right with the idea of doing a rework of sorts and its undeniable so I don't get what you wished to prove. Are you trying to say because people disagree with me that the game should carry on as it is? People rage quitting mid death screaming and insulting Jason players rather than light hearted insults? There's a big difference between you and the many who on this topic may have disagreed well at least from how I noticed it.

The people who disagreed with me didn't meander around trying to disprove me, a lot of them showed their feelings of agree or disagree and gave suggestions and moved on. I'm only fixated with you because the only contribution you have offered is discussion which I appreciate but to a degree you and I have even went off topic. You won't suggest a single thing till someone else says something and you keep coming back to a single point that you hate one of my suggestions. How about you actually try being creative and help with the topic? When some suggested something else instead I never said they're fully wrong and I gave my own critique on their idea. We didn't stay on one topic we had ideas come in. You on the other hand while providing discussion are not even giving ideas to actually develop and give a final solid contribution. Instead your mostly interacting two people one of those being me and we're both wasting time in our discussion clearly. You do help, my point is we're only as fixated as you let us be. I'm all about ideas and discussing, so if you give it to me I'll talk about it. Everyone else gave me things to elaborate and talk about but you and I are only fixated on the single subject which is entirely in your power to make into something more useful to everyone.

Which of course, discussion helps, but considering my role in this thread and the way I have acted, I really don't think you're in the role to call me the fixated one, If I am which arguably I am to a degree I suppose for not ending this with you earlier, you are just as fixated as I. But even then I'm just responding to what I'm given, I haven't currently got anymore original ideas to spew and I already littered my opinions in the OP so I'd still stay I'm only fixated with you because its the discussion you're giving me. If you want it to end then give me something else to very capably talk about because its apparent you and it are not agreeing in a certain department.

We had conversation but if your at the point of seriously thinking I'm fixated then maybe we should both start thinking of a new ideas. I'm here to whole heartedly say I haven't got much to say from what others have at the moment on ideas to improve.

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On 09/06/2017 at 1:23 PM, StarringRole said:

To be clear now, this subject is a little beyond just balance for me personally.
Currently Jason's grab is a little too strong and something I don't like personally is that it doesn't feel scary whatsoever.
When the game launched (I played the original beta) people didn't spam grab but now its begun to become a trend, simply grabbing.

Whenever I play as a counsellor I use look over shoulder to see behind me and each time I do it I see a Jason spamming grab without being close enough to me and honestly, its anti climatic. Jason players have began spamming this animation and now when in a chase it tends to look extremely stupid and its really somewhat taken the magic out of the grab kills (mostly because now its used for instant kills and its just spammed even when Jason isn't close enough to try and confirm a kill).

The grab has removed a lot of tension from the game as before players entered a grab frenzy you would find the occasional injured player running around the map for their life covered in blood, this is from my experience a rare occurrence and has taken lots of atmosphere from the game.

Additionally I need to state shift grab needs to be removed entirely. there is no counter play to a Jason who knows what he's doing. A lot of counsellors haven't got enough stamina or speed to waste zigzagging to evade  a shift grab and for the most part some Jason players are entirely perfect at landing shift grabs. I've managed to do them on occasion and my brother has become fairly capable at performing them with ease and one of my friends even more so.

The grab needs to change, and so do Jason's special executions. I am proposing a few alternatives without literally weakening Jason.

1. Grab is on a either a 3, 5 or 7 second cooldown, this way it can't be spammed. Its important to know that in the game characters who have any stats above 1 put into strength are essentially expected to have a sudden moment where they can fight back even if its not an incredible moment, but some self defence is required. This would mean counsellors have an opening to try and get back at Jason before he can pull of another grab. Most importantly the grab is literally destroying mechanics, there from current experience is no point in blocking or even entering combat stance. If that is going to be the case then remove it, because for the most part combat stance doesn't assist. Additionally a buff to compensate for this difference could be making it so that during stalk mode Jason is allowed to spam grab. This would reduce the amount of ridiculous moments that occur.

2.Make Combat stance immune to grabs till injured.

3.Combo attacks, following my 1. a good idea would be that if Jason strings two or three (probably two) consecutive hits that depending on the counsellors HP he can instantly string it into a special kill, a combo hit could lead to a stun assuming block is not used wisely by the counsellor. This is meant to be an attachment to point one.

4. Entirely block grabs to non injured targets

5. Turn grabs into button mash VS, atm there isn't counter play other than luck or hoping the current Jason wants to be fancy, a lot of Jason players don't want to be fancy. That an his kills charge up very quickly, in fact the reason some of then don't initiate from my experience is due to Jason's current area, by moving some kills disabled themselves while others enabled for me during the same grab. To be clear this idea is the one I'm most against, a Jason player who is weak behind the screen would then be unable to force themselves to perform well, point being that this could potentially be a little too hard for a Jason player.

I stopped playing Jason because I love trying to live out the final girl trope (my main problem that I spent one night being forced to play Jason because people wanted to see savini Jason so I needed a break).

Jason is very strong at the moment, I tend to land two hits on a counsellor before a grab, however one match I got forced to play Jason just last night and I decided to do an insta grab + shift grab round its far too easy. Its very easy to pull off a grab round in general and I say that as Savini Jason who has less grab strength (if I remember correctly). Also I am aware he does more melee damage put I didn't not hurt anyone these rounds, I focused on only grabs. Knifes are not common enough to save counsellors and the game will become stale if his grab goes on. I've barely seen any one play as Chad and I asked a few and people seem to value stamina/speed to highly. That being said the issue is that some characters are being undermined purely due to the grab from what I've witnessed. The game hasn't been out for a long time and the game is incredibly more balanced than it was in the beta, its came a long way and its not far off from being perfect.

I know many people are going to probably disagree with me stating that Jason is meant to kill everyone but when I die I don't have fun watching people drop all tactics purely off avoiding a grab. I don't like Jason comically spamming grab in the distance without getting anyone simply because he will eventually if he keeps up. Jason never did something like attacking the wind in the movies... I agree Jason should be once again, the killer but notably a problem is this isn't the movies. Its the game. Its balance and it has to be fun for both Jason and survivors. I get lots of fun spectating but when its a spam grab I know what goes through everyone's head and they start acting erratic because of grabs, in game chat I also hear many players screaming and swearing at Jason players because of grabs.

You can be a total horror geek, particularly of Jason and its entirely fine but you can't justify a function that even begins to make Jason look like a joke.
I have played Jason and the match is left partly to chance even for Jason, you never know what player is going to be filled with pocket knives and for those that aren't they don't have a chance to escape so long as the Jason player knows what they're doing.

Please try to be reasonable, don't justify Jason as needing spam grab, think around it because mechanics need to be fun and look cool, not look ridiculous and anti-fun. The movies or being a fan is not justifications. People even if they love it will come to a point where they dislike it. I like the movies and Jason destroys everything but it can't be perfect in the game.

Just an opinion, I hope people are willing to understand where I'm coming from. Because I certainly want the unique kills to be present but the persistent grabs and grabbing is not entirely healthy which I why I was trying to think of some alternatives.

Finally sorry if there is any mistakes in language or sentence structure.

 

 

About your point 1:

I do not think there should be any change in that regard if you realize that the counselors already have a great advantage over Jason when he misses a grab.

Remember that Jason often cannot execute the counselor immediately, having to walk a few steps before executing them. Other than the fact that they can use a pocketknife and have time to smash button to get free. In addition, Jason suffers stunt ... Counselors never suffer with stunt.

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@StarringRole Again, you seem to have an issue with comprehension. I did make suggestions. Plenty of them. I even said I'm not opposed to a grab cooldown, just not an absurd length of time like 3 seconds. I also said counselors' melee should be quicker. As it is now, they swing way too slow. Rework Jason's grab distance. Rework grab break because it's completely useless as it is now. 

But alas, you just kept defending the 3, 5, and 7 second grab cooldown. You even went as far as to say that I have a poor Jason strategy and accused me of being heavily reliant on the grab. Even after I told you that I prefer to stalk and melee.

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On 2017-6-13 at 1:15 PM, Ol'UnReliable said:

It's not the fact that he can grab while teleporting that's the problem it's the fact that when Jason teleport he grab me even after I ran 3 whole steps from where he teleported whenever that happen I just quit before he get the kill

I play on all three platforms and it's maybe 1/10 that I get shift grabbed. If he's able to easily grab you straight out of shift, you're not manoeuvring in a way that will keep you alive. Zig zag, run around objects that he can't grab you over, don't sprint too much, try to conserve stamina where you can, hide in cabins and then stun him as he breaks the door. 

I've played the hell out of this game (level 30 + on PS4 and Xbox) it's honestly not as big a problem as some people are making it out to be.

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10 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I was just in a match where an AJ was able to avoid Jason's grabs by circling around him point blank. While I think Jason needs a grab LENGTH reduction, he could use a grab WIDTH radius buff.

This wouldn't have been on Xbox Live by someone with my username, by chance? This is a trick I use often on extremely mouthy and overconfident Jason players. I always use AJ, too.

Anyway, this isn't a bug, but more of a testament to the lack of skill or strategy a Jason player has. It only works against the grab happy tunnel vision players. You can tell these players by whether or not they continuously chase you or not. Instead of ambushing you from ahead, by using morph or shift, they continue to try to get behind you. Thus, you are able to train them in circles for a long period of time. A well placed melee strike or even moving the OPPOSITE direction abruptly puts an end to this tactic. 

The grab area is cone shaped, meaning the area closest to Jason is the smallest trigger area. By running close to him, you can run out of that small area faster. 

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13 hours ago, StarringRole said:

One thing I personally would vouch for is rage mode being somewhat stronger however. Like maybe all his damage inducing moves, knives, traps, normal hits all begin to do significantly higher damage? But I agree I don't believe in just changing one thing, obviously things have to be changed with the flow.

I honestly feel like Jason is highly based on the player behind him. It is a game, you are meant to play it I mean.

I can assure you that I played the best possible Jason and got 2/8 kills. Double trap telephone/car, break doors in advance, hit shift grabs/throwing knives etc. They did not have luck with a really good quick item spawn. They won based on the game mechanics that offered no counter.

The problem is that with time most good people will get these perks that are absurdly strong. They will know the telephone spawn and the shotgun spawn.

Rage mode giving a chance to ignore pocket knifes, be more resistant to dmg/stun or giving more hit damage would certainly be useful. Maybe a short sprint ?

It would make him closer to the movies. Currently you are too reliant on the shift grab to hit. On the PC at least its not easy to hit against people that zig-zag.

 

 

 

 

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On ‎14‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 2:16 PM, iz2sick said:

@StarringRole Again, you seem to have an issue with comprehension. I did make suggestions. Plenty of them. I even said I'm not opposed to a grab cooldown, just not an absurd length of time like 3 seconds. I also said counselors' melee should be quicker. As it is now, they swing way too slow. Rework Jason's grab distance. Rework grab break because it's completely useless as it is now. 

But alas, you just kept defending the 3, 5, and 7 second grab cooldown. You even went as far as to say that I have a poor Jason strategy and accused me of being heavily reliant on the grab. Even after I told you that I prefer to stalk and melee.

Honestly I'm done with you, and as I said rather than giving ideas you simply modified my own for the most part, I seriously don't recall you giving anything except for reducing my cooldown idea and agreeing with others AKA our conversation became aimless eventually and as I said idea generation between us = no. You also don't know the definition of comprehension and just to clarify, I stated that the way you expressed yourself gave the impression of being grab reliant, you simply got overtly defended and since our topic became aimless we both went down that route.

Thanks for contributing and bye, for both our sakes this is over between us, its truly tiresome.

On the other hand I had another idea in general

Not that its anything epic or amazing! But its based on the grab spam thing. Assuming they do overhaul the grab system so that you actually have a chance of breaking out how about if the player who broke out of the grab is immune to another grab from Jason for the next 3-5 seconds to avoid the game becoming grab spam visually and once again another chance of making the battle system a little more relevant. Just an idea, certainly nothing amazing, but hey its something.

On ‎14‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 2:36 PM, Slashin' Passion said:

I play on all three platforms and it's maybe 1/10 that I get shift grabbed. If he's able to easily grab you straight out of shift, you're not manoeuvring in a way that will keep you alive. Zig zag, run around objects that he can't grab you over, don't sprint too much, try to conserve stamina where you can, hide in cabins and then stun him as he breaks the door. 

I've played the hell out of this game (level 30 + on PS4 and Xbox) it's honestly not as big a problem as some people are making it out to be.

I dunno about you but as a counsellor when your outside the movement is the right technique to avoid it but its impossible against skilled Jasons, you have to use awkward map collisions to your advantage and the land from height animation that occasionally can play when collisions get freaky is so slow that it confirms a easy grab kill. A lot of counsellors don't have anything near enough stamina to waste to dodge the shift grab effectively as it requires sprint or else you are easy game. I've met a lot of perfect shift grab Jasons on the Xbox. There are a lot and its such a powerful thing that it does not some form of control.

Ana in Overwatch is considered a fantastic healer with a high skill cap but its skill requirement doesn't justify that much power. Remember its a game, I'm just going to assume to some reading this that Overwatch could potentially be a nice a example balance wise of power and skill since I admit shift grabs do require some skill but its very common and not as hard as people make it out to be. On the other hand I just want to say OW is a unbalanced mess but that's besides the point.

On ‎14‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 4:15 PM, Mikil Krueger said:

I can assure you that I played the best possible Jason and got 2/8 kills. Double trap telephone/car, break doors in advance, hit shift grabs/throwing knives etc. They did not have luck with a really good quick item spawn. They won based on the game mechanics that offered no counter.

The problem is that with time most good people will get these perks that are absurdly strong. They will know the telephone spawn and the shotgun spawn.

Rage mode giving a chance to ignore pocket knifes, be more resistant to dmg/stun or giving more hit damage would certainly be useful. Maybe a short sprint ?

It would make him closer to the movies. Currently you are too reliant on the shift grab to hit. On the PC at least its not easy to hit against people that zig-zag.

 

 

 

 

As I said part of the game is that Jasons fate is RNG. He's not meant to win. Counsellors having RNG are just as RNG as Jason. So in some cases it can't be helped.

As for nerfing a feature that is frustrating and then buffing Jason I think its fine. I definitely feel like his rage mode should be buffed a little. Even if its a tiny general speed boost too. With the way grabbing is at the moment though knifes should carry on as they are, the buff can come if they bring grab under control properly.

Another big issue that I see is Jason matches are unbearable to player character choices. From my experience: Tiffany/Brandon/Vanessa/AJ and occasional adam are the top picks.
Since his grab is so ridiculous players are more prone to picking these characters which make matches more unbearable for Jason if everyone is a super runner. AJ on the other hand seems like a popular pick due to being kind of like Deborah but somewhat better actually...

I think the Jason would became a lot less in need of a buff if it was followed by new balance on the counsellors mainly focusing on:
Luck - Buff
Strength - Buff
Stamina - Nerf (slightly on an overall scale)

But I seriously think Jason could potentially just do with more quality of life changes perhaps. An extra bear trap overall, slightly faster morph overall and quicker knife pickup animation.

 

 

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Xbox player here,

Ok well I tried to read all of this topic but I gave up after the third post. From my experiences alone, I think for the most part I try to find a fuse, because that seems to be the only way to escape, since almost every Jason player fills the area around the cars with traps to the point were it looks like a car in a nest of leaves and twigs. Boats never seem to work anyway because Jason swims faster than me running for a sale on shoes. (Sorry nothing post related but thought I'd vent anyway)

Jasons job is to kill, and that's a fair point but this isn't the movies. Because if it were we wouldn't bother playing because the chances of survival are incredibly slim. But when you buy a game you want to utilize all gameplay features or you at least should, but in my opinion, nearly all of the gameplay mechanics are in Jasons favour and players end up using the easiest options in order to win. And the game starts to feel a little bit more of a chore when playing with some Jason players in comparison to some who make use of all the features without being a bit sweaty about it. I think that it comes to the fact that a lot of Jason players just want the points to level up and kill the whole team rather than have a fun game. And a lot of that comes from grabbing and shift grabbing followed with an instant kill.

I think that the game could become more challenging for Jason players and more fun for counselors if Jason could not grab following a shift for a short amount of time but could instantly use a weapon attack. I also think that depending on the counselors health Jason can only do certain grabs, such as the instant choke that could only be done on counselors limping in dying state, but are not as easy on counselors on full health, I say this because instant kills take away the use of the escape bar aswell as the help of other team members as I have noticed they have to wait a while before their hits register on Jason and saving the captured counselor but for most instant kills this time is not enough or is in very rare cases just enough. Making this change could potentially forces Jason players to make use of all features and gives counselors more of a shot at surviving as getting out of grabs currently is almost impossible unless you find a pocket knife which are not as common as they used to be.

Again you can say that Jason is almighty and strong and he can kill everyone like in the movies, but a game is different and it has to be fair for all players. Personally I feel the current mechanics for Jason are not fair. And results in a quick game. If you can't find vehicle parts or a fuse, you almost might as well give up. Unless you are willing to try and hide for the whole game, boring all spectating players and usually ending in the game connection timing out with less then 5 minutes remaining.

 

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18 minutes ago, MidnightCallerXx said:

Xbox player here,

Ok well I tried to read all of this topic but I gave up after the third post. From my experiences alone, I think for the most part I try to find a fuse, because that seems to be the only way to escape, since almost every Jason player fills the area around the cars with traps to the point were it looks like a car in a nest of leaves and twigs. Boats never seem to work anyway because Jason swims faster than me running for a sale on shoes. (Sorry nothing post related but thought I'd vent anyway)

Jasons job is to kill, and that's a fair point but this isn't the movies. Because if it were we wouldn't bother playing because the chances of survival are incredibly slim. But when you buy a game you want to utilize all gameplay features are you at least should, but in my opinion, the majority of the mechanics are in Jasons favour and players end up using the easiest options in order to win. And the game starts to feel a little bit more of a chore when playing with some Jason players in comparison to some who make use of all the features without being a bit sweaty about it. I think that it comes to the fact that a lot of Jason players just want the points to level up and kill the whole team rather than have a fun game. And a lot of that comes from grabbing and shift grabbing followed with an instant kill. I think that the game could become more challenging for Jason players and more fun for counselors if Jason could not grab following a shift for a short amount of time but could instantly use a weapon attack. I also think that depending on the counselors health Jason can only do certain grabs, such as the instant choke can only be done on counselors limping in dying state, but are not as easy on counselors on full health, I say this because instant kills take away the use of the escape bar aswell as the help of other team members as I have noticed they have to wait a while before their hits register on Jason and saving the captured counselor but for most instant kills this time is not enough or is in very rare cases just enough. This forces Jason players to make use of all features and gives counselors more of a shot at surviving as getting out of grabs currently is almost impossible unless you find a pocket knife which are not as common as they used to be.

Again you can say that Jason is almighty and strong and he can kill everyone like in the movies, but a game is different and it has to be fair for all players. Personally I feel the current mechanics for Jason are not fair. And results in a quick game. If you can't find vehicle parts or a fuse, you almost might as well give up.

So you want to level the playing field? That's not gonna work IMO. It'll become even more boring if your survival chances become 50/50. It'll also be become boring to be Jason if counselors are escaping at a 50% rate. There is absolutely no fun in that and escaping would no longer feel rewarding. 

 

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2 hours ago, iz2sick said:

So you want to level the playing field? That's not gonna work IMO. It'll become even more boring if your survival chances become 50/50. It'll also be become boring to be Jason if counselors are escaping at a 50% rate. There is absolutely no fun in that and escaping would no longer feel rewarding. 

 

It's already boring to be Jason, there's nothing fun about grabbing and winning the game as there is fun for flicking the light switch on. For me personally the adrenaline of hunting someone down is much more favourable. I never said that survival should be 50/50, but the way the game currently is, (although rewarding) against a fairly good Jason player there's almost no point in playing because there's almost no chance in survival. The majority of games I've played are won by someone using a fuse and calling the police. Everything else is booby-trapped to the heavens and most players don't see the point in looking for vehicle parts when the chances of escaping in those vehicles are highly unlikely.

Would I rather do everything I can to escape and most likely die, or do the same process and I might, just barely, make it out and survive. The reward for surviving isn't enough to compensate for the frustrating and almost broken gameplay, for me personally.

Now I am someone who doesn't mind being killed by Jason, but aslong as I make them work for that kill, that's what is fun, but it's hard to do that when all they do is press the grab button and win. From my perspective, as someone who prefers playing counselors, the best way I can describe it is, it's like playing Uno with someone who has nothing but pick up 4 cards. Or trying to survive a zombie apocalypse when you've already been bitten. It's hard to find the fun and ethusiasm to play a game when the chances of winning are so slim.

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Shift grab is easily avoidable as long as you're not injured or out of stamina. In which case a grab is fine. But as I've started before, there definitely needs to be tweaks made to the mechanics of both Jason and counselors. 

My first couple of games, I realized how laughable the grab break meter was. I was laughing and saying that the meter only existed to give me a false sense of last minute hope haha.

And I'm with you on being Jason. I love stalking and meleeing. Throwing knives as well. Much more fun than constantly shift grabbing. 

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Best post I have read in a long time. Totally agree with OP. Lot of similar points to the ones I made in my Feedback post.

Jason needs a nerf. Characters with high composure need a reason for existence. Grab instakill needs to be rethought out. And grab in general shouldn't be able to catch a player that is en-train-de melee swing.

Anyway I hope the communtiy is enough to get behind nerfs to Jason, and fundamental changes to core mechanics of the game.

As of right now this game is pathetic, and my friends tell me so daily.

And the sad part is, I defend the game, even though I know they are right.

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