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4 minutes ago, StarringRole said:

 

Are you sure?
I'm not joking but this only happened in the beta for me, in the full game I've had to highlight pocket knives to ensure my counsellor uses them otherwise I wind up dead. So unless I experienced a glitch but ever since the first time it happened to me I've made sure to always highlight a pocket knife. Otherwise I think even if what I experienced was a glitch this is actually a fairly fine nerf as its not drastic and to be honest I'm already playing like this.

Yes. That's how they work. At least on PC version on steam. You can even stack two or three pocket knives and pretty much be "grab" immune for the next couple of grabs from Jason without having to flick any kind of button or command in the process.

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3 minutes ago, REO said:

Yes. That's how they work. At least on PC version on steam. You can even stack two or three pocket knives and pretty much be "grab" immune for the next couple of grabs from Jason without having to flick any kind of button or command in the process.

Wow then it could be platform based....

Perhaps?
I know I always highlight the knife, to be honest I feel like if this isn't going on steam versions (which I don't play much atm) then it should be added. Once I experienced it as either a glitch or mechanic on my platform I live by highlighting the knife. I thought it was part of making players care about how their composure state currently was since UI disappeared at max fear. Well I approve of this change. I might ask my brother to test the pocket knife thing with me but I believe what you're saying. I believe its a reasonable change as its makes composure checking more valuable and currently its the way I play so I don't know much better beyond that I guess.

 

Thanks for bringing this up! That was very interesting! Since I play it very safe I never once risked not highlighting a knife again!

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9 minutes ago, StarringRole said:

 

Are you sure?
I'm not joking but this only happened in the beta for me, in the full game I've had to highlight pocket knives to ensure my counsellor uses them otherwise I wind up dead. So unless I experienced a glitch but ever since the first time it happened to me I've made sure to always highlight a pocket knife. Otherwise I think even if what I experienced was a glitch this is actually a fairly fine nerf as its not drastic and to be honest I'm already playing like this.

yeah, my knives didnt work unless i have it highlighted 

first time it happened to me, i had 2 knives but still died when despite me spamming E 

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1 minute ago, westwarren said:

yeah, my knives didnt work unless i have it highlighted 

first time it happened to me, i had 2 knives but still died when despite me spamming E 

Yep then that's the case, I think its safe to assume knifes work by the case of them being highlighted and perhaps PC platform doesn't have this difference. So that could be up for a change to the PC version assuming its the only version that lacks this mechanic.

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7 minutes ago, REO said:

Yes. That's how they work. At least on PC version on steam. You can even stack two or three pocket knives and pretty much be "grab" immune for the next couple of grabs from Jason without having to flick any kind of button or command in the process.

ive only had more than one knife about a couple of times

knives are very hard to come by

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You quoted 3, 5, or 7 second delays. That's 3-7 seconds effectively. That is far too much even at 3.

And your comprehension is really lacking if what you got from my comment is that I'm a grab heavy Jason. I told you the circumstances in which I grab and they are few. In a group, it makes way more sense to grab because it's harder for them to stun me. Not ONLY because of the kill animation, but because I also redirect the counselor I'm holding. If the group hits me at the wrong time, they kill the counselor too. That's a sound strategy and only one of the situations where I'm gonna grab all of you.

If I choose to melee a group instead, there is no timing necessary on the counselors' parts to stun me. They can all take a swing at me since I'm not in a kill animation. If you aren't grabbing in a group of counselors, then I'm afraid you're the one with the poor strategy. 

Otherwise, as I've already stated, I'm a hunting Jason that likes to throw knives and poke you with my weapon. And the only time I'll be dead set on killing you on sight is if you're about to escape or I see you holding an escape piece. If it's early in the game, I'm most likely going to leave you alone after a short scare because there are other tasks I want to take care of before I truly start hunting everyone down.

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34 minutes ago, iz2sick said:

Not ONLY because of the kill animation, but because I also redirect the counselor I'm holding. If the group hits me at the wrong time, they kill the counselor too. That's a sound strategy and only one of the situations where I'm gonna grab all of you.

why would you even point the counselor towards the other counselors when you can initiate the kill animation and be invulnerable?

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Hey guys, just a heads up that the moderators have been closing duplicate threads about this issue. I think I started the first thread and we have been having a good discussion about grab instakills and possible ways to rebalance it over here. We have a poll >80% in favor of counselors struggling to escape. PLEASE read the whole thread before posting your reply.

 

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2 hours ago, iz2sick said:

You quoted 3, 5, or 7 second delays. That's 3-7 seconds effectively. That is far too much even at 3.

And your comprehension is really lacking if what you got from my comment is that I'm a grab heavy Jason. I told you the circumstances in which I grab and they are few. In a group, it makes way more sense to grab because it's harder for them to stun me. Not ONLY because of the kill animation, but because I also redirect the counselor I'm holding. If the group hits me at the wrong time, they kill the counselor too. That's a sound strategy and only one of the situations where I'm gonna grab all of you.

If I choose to melee a group instead, there is no timing necessary on the counselors' parts to stun me. They can all take a swing at me since I'm not in a kill animation. If you aren't grabbing in a group of counselors, then I'm afraid you're the one with the poor strategy. 

Otherwise, as I've already stated, I'm a hunting Jason that likes to throw knives and poke you with my weapon. And the only time I'll be dead set on killing you on sight is if you're about to escape or I see you holding an escape piece. If it's early in the game, I'm most likely going to leave you alone after a short scare because there are other tasks I want to take care of before I truly start hunting everyone down.

 Jesus.... I definitely don't hate you but I feel like you're the one lacking comprehension... You don't seem to understand his grab is literally removing the point of functions that are in the game. That's infinitely flawed design if its so strong. So from the get go you are wrong for going against the idea of an overhaul in general. That's assuming you are since you and I have been fixated on a single point, I haven't really gotten to understand your overall opinion but from what I can gather its that it only needs a minor change.

Second of all I just don't get why anyone would rely on a grab when grouped up with counsellors in general unless their grab heavy. Its not my comprehension, its the impression you give me, I by no means definitely believe you are a grab Jason, but everything you say gives the impression of one. Although I apologise if I seemed strong on the sense of accusation. Additionally as I said you shouldn't miss a grab if you're going to do it when there's a group. Its super forgiving radius wise and on top of it, I just don't agree with the play style. As I said I recommended what I thought was better because what I heard sounds grab intensive when that situation has a far better work around which is scare them off.

Also correction there is far more timing with a grab. Counsellor attack speed is pitifully slow, Jason is fast and his walk is fast enough to literally take a step away from a swing its common sense and its more effective to rapidly destroy everyone than wasting time on a grab when you can evade every stun while scaring everyone away from the scene because Jason does not get stunned as long as he does not enter combat stance (because its easy to evade hits). Frankly grabbing is the mistake in my eyes because despite them possibly not being able to save their friend they are far more capable of stunning/wasting time than if you attack them considering as long as you aren't in combat stance you can once again evade literally every strike with minimal effort so I have to disagree with you. Jason grab doesn't even have to do anything either since its an instant kill so long as your quick.

However on the other hand if the have a shotgun/flare gun... You get my sweets. So fine you win.

Additionally about the end of what you said I good for you quite simply. This topic isn't about you loving to hunt players, its about how grabs are effectively too strong at the moment and have stopped people from playing certain characters simply for easier grab evade. Its about overhauling the grab system or altering it. Not how you love playing Jason and I might be to blame but this topic just isn't about that.

The entire point I've been making is that the way you word things give the impression you are a grab Jason and you seem so fixated on disproving one point of mine despite the fact my point is simply altering the system in reality and that you seem a little to desperate than necessary. Because 3 seconds is not going to stop any real Jason player, the radius is large and that's why I think you look a little desperate, its easy to bait  someone into a grab if they are trying to stun you and I can't understand your fixation on 3 seconds being awful, most importantly your fixation solely on that point. Pardon me for all my shortcomings but I'm not doing this to hurt anyone.

1 hour ago, westwarren said:

why would you even point the counselor towards the other counselors when you can initiate the kill animation and be invulnerable?

I kinda thought that considering its instant. But whatever. I'm honestly a little mind boggled from debating with this considering the grabs are pretty straightforward. To the point I'm not as interested in giving a fully passionate response to him anymore, despite that I thank for participating with this as its what I wanted.

 

1 hour ago, raf1ki said:

Hey guys, just a heads up that the moderators have been closing duplicate threads about this issue. I think I started the first thread and we have been having a good discussion about grab instakills and possible ways to rebalance it over here. We have a poll >80% in favor of counselors struggling to escape. PLEASE read the whole thread before posting your reply.

 

I'll take a look at that soon and thanks for the information!

I'm currently tired so @iz2sick sorry if my answer was half hearted this time I had much less energy as I'm tired as I type this but I do genuinally appreciate you leaving your opinion because everyone's matters in this topic. So if I said Jasons pet cat slaughtered the counsellors I sincerely apologise if something came out extremely wrong in this reply because I am tired at this moment. Hope you understand!

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Shift grab is fine, instead employ some of the other things you said. Block grabs, yes. No cooldown on grabs though. Jason has a ridiculous range on grabs too. He can grab someone from an extra arm's length away, meanwhile counselors need to be right up in Jason's face to land a hit, and most of the time that does not even work. And Jason is invincible for what seems like most of the time based on animations. So,

1. Block grabs

2. Reduce Jason's grab range.

3. Increase counselor melee range and improve their "lock on."

4. Reduce the number of "invincibiity frames" for Jason.

5. Increase dodge distance for counselors.

6. Give Jason a dodge move.

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8 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Shift grab is fine, instead employ some of the other things you said. Block grabs, yes. No cooldown on grabs though. Jason has a ridiculous range on grabs too. He can grab someone from an extra arm's length away, meanwhile counselors need to be right up in Jason's face to land a hit, and most of the time that does not even work. And Jason is invincible for what seems like most of the time based on animations. So,

1. Block grabs

2. Reduce Jason's grab range.

3. Increase counselor melee range and improve their "lock on."

4. Reduce the number of "invincibiity frames" for Jason.

5. Increase dodge distance for counselors.

6. Give Jason a dodge move.

Bravo. Someone who is reasonable with their suggestions on changing mechanics.

Completely agree that his block has ridiculous range. It's always fun to get grabbed when Jason isn't even near you or grabbing the wrong direction and you teleport to his grasp lol.

10 hours ago, westwarren said:

why would you even point the counselor towards the other counselors when you can initiate the kill animation and be invulnerable?

Seriously man? Why do you guys keep acting like 2 seconds, 3 seconds, 5 seconds, or 7 seconds isn't a huge amount of time? Being vulnerable for 2 seconds is still a lot. You'd have an argument if there wasn't even a 1 second delay. 

And again, you're totally glossing over my point. If I don't grab, I'm vulnerable the entire time. So knowing the grab mechanics, it's safer for me to grab rather than melee when a group is attacking me.

Like the above person said, there needs to be fixes implemented. I'm not arguing that. My entire point was that your suggestions were unreasonable. 

And thanks. Now that I know how much people hate grabbing Jasons, that's all I'm gonna do when I pub it. Time to sprinkle the salt.

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14 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Shift grab is fine, instead employ some of the other things you said. Block grabs, yes. No cooldown on grabs though. Jason has a ridiculous range on grabs too. He can grab someone from an extra arm's length away, meanwhile counselors need to be right up in Jason's face to land a hit, and most of the time that does not even work. And Jason is invincible for what seems like most of the time based on animations. So,

1. Block grabs

2. Reduce Jason's grab range.

3. Increase counselor melee range and improve their "lock on."

4. Reduce the number of "invincibiity frames" for Jason.

5. Increase dodge distance for counselors.

6. Give Jason a dodge move.

Shift grab would be fine and it would make the whole game a lot more justifiable with these mechanics. One problem comes into play overall however and its that there probably will inevitably be a delay on grabs because if Jason spams grab even if he misses he can easily dodge and thus combat would be a waste of time for both players because if you close you would just get grabbed.

However, I'm willing to see this tested because as I've said and you acknowledged his grab radius is pretty huge and if they buffed counsellor range/speed whatever the problem would be it honestly could work out.

6 hours ago, iz2sick said:

Bravo. Someone who is reasonable with their suggestions on changing mechanics.

Completely agree that his block has ridiculous range. It's always fun to get grabbed when Jason isn't even near you or grabbing the wrong direction and you teleport to his grasp lol.

Seriously man? Why do you guys keep acting like 2 seconds, 3 seconds, 5 seconds, or 7 seconds isn't a huge amount of time? Being vulnerable for 2 seconds is still a lot. You'd have an argument if there wasn't even a 1 second delay. 

And again, you're totally glossing over my point. If I don't grab, I'm vulnerable the entire time. So knowing the grab mechanics, it's safer for me to grab rather than melee when a group is attacking me.

Like the above person said, there needs to be fixes implemented. I'm not arguing that. My entire point was that your suggestions were unreasonable. 

And thanks. Now that I know how much people hate grabbing Jasons, that's all I'm gonna do when I pub it. Time to sprinkle the salt.

Yes I must admit he had a good idea, I'm frankly quite interested. What I don't get is why you're acting like I was unreasonable. You became fixated on a single point of mine which is also a huge thing to judge considering this topic is about sharing ideas and consulting it, despite that you've offered no ideas but you have discussed which I appreciate. The only problem I have with you is that you became fixated on a single point which I don't really understand why. I defended the point because when I play Jason I know what wouldn't effect me badly at all. You also have to realise I was giving time ideas. I think from this entire discussion you can tell I was more focused on 3 seconds so special kills could still happen which I don't get why you call it a lot, I'd still settle on 2 seconds so long as there was a viable opening frame. There's no point in 1 second though because you just get back to square one unless you buff the counsellors. So its more of the fact you like grab spam in the moment with no self control which there's no problem to if you like that, the idea is just so counsellors can get the hit off which they can't at the moment.

That and I don't think you understand, the time period Jason is invulnerable for doesn't matter because in a grab he's just getting his kill. Who cares. You can dodge counsellors easy out of combat stance and you can pull off your quick grab kill so not really, you just waste time looking fancy by doing a grab in front of a group when you could be scaring them off without stuns unless they have guns. I'm just saying what is more effective if you don't want escapes.

That and my suggestions weren't unreasonable in the slightest. You are just clearly reliant as you are fixated on a single point.

And your last sentence doesn't really help, I feel like you're just looking for a way to justify grab spam and not even being good at it. That's the impression you give and with a bonus you're adding salt.

But go ahead, you wont get me angry, you'll just make me and others see flaws more apparently, I'm still going to be having fun with the game as each session is a movie and its fun. So yeah have fun with the grabbing it wasn't information we needed now I'm willing to say I don't care about your opinion because you're clearly the one who isn't here to help... Well I'd imagine you want to help but it seems childish bringing up that your gonna spam grab just to cause salt? It really makes me doubt you. but do what you love I support you because I'm not here to literally change the way play, but your last sentence despite not being directed at me isn't necessary.

You're still welcome, but that was really unnecessary but we all make mistakes. But hey If you go for it at least whenever you're stalking someone just whisper salt and get louder as you get closer lets make dis fun boi.

Just play the game how you like of course and discuss it if you want, but I just don't feel like deliberately trying to induce salt on a topic where we a discussing a fix for something that could be causing such is necessary. From my experience lots of players get salty from it. But you can't help it at the moment because we're looking into fixes alternatives for it to ease the issue.

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I did not Read the whole sujet, but maybe à simple move like ducking to avoid the grap could be good. The penality would be à instant kill if you misread Jason intention. Like getting slashed from the top off the head.

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3 minutes ago, Snakejason said:

I did not Read the whole sujet, but maybe à simple move like ducking to avoid the grap could be good.

The penality would be à instant kill if you misread Jason intention. Like getting slashed from the top off the head while crouching.

 

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11 hours ago, iz2sick said:
11 hours ago, iz2sick said:

Seriously man? Why do you guys keep acting like 2 seconds, 3 seconds, 5 seconds, or 7 seconds isn't a huge amount of time? Being vulnerable for 2 seconds is still a lot. You'd have an argument if there wasn't even a 1 second delay. 

And again, you're totally glossing over my point. If I don't grab, I'm vulnerable the entire time. So knowing the grab mechanics, it's safer for me to grab rather than melee when a group is attacking me.

 

 

grab is uber easy, but you're also "glossing" over that, its also brainless, and as you pointed out LMB is useless, SO BUFF THE LMB ATTACK

reduce the amount of weapons in game if you're going to weaken jason, problem solved 

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19 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Shift grab is fine, instead employ some of the other things you said. Block grabs, yes. No cooldown on grabs though. Jason has a ridiculous range on grabs too. He can grab someone from an extra arm's length away, meanwhile counselors need to be right up in Jason's face to land a hit, and most of the time that does not even work. And Jason is invincible for what seems like most of the time based on animations. So,

1. Block grabs

2. Reduce Jason's grab range.

3. Increase counselor melee range and improve their "lock on."

4. Reduce the number of "invincibiity frames" for Jason.

5. Increase dodge distance for counselors.

6. Give Jason a dodge move.

sorry i cant agree with the dodge move, jason is a zombie hulking being....why are we making him agile?

blocking a grab?... no, just no, that would break the combat system yet again

the current system is fine, all it needs is a few tweaks

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54 minutes ago, westwarren said:

grab is uber easy, but you're also "glossing" over that, its also brainless, and as you pointed out LMB is useless, SO BUFF THE LMB ATTACK

reduce the amount of weapons in game if you're going to weaken jason, problem solved 

So concentrated on the grab that you're suggesting something so absurd as a 3-7 second delay. I never said it doesn't need nerfing. I have a particular problem with the melee time of counselors. It's too damn slow thus making Jason's grab too easy. I also don't disagree with adding a SLIGHT delay to his grab. I've already said that they should add extended animation of the grab to add another half second or full second delay. This is on top of the current animation delay between grabs. 3 seconds is way too much.

And what I'm gathering is that people want escaping to be easier for coinselors. That goes against F13 lore. You aren't meant to escape easily. That's what makes escaping so rewarding. In the movies, only 1-2 people escape. Maybe try playing this game with the mindset that you're not going to escape. That's how I have always approached this game and it's been super fun. I don't mind getting grabbed and dying. It's all fun because I know when I'm Jason, everyone else will be in the same position.

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18 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

"Making it hard to escape for counselors" is not an excuse for legitimately broken game play.

As for Dodge for Jason, it would be like a quick step not some martial arts bull. 

Yea, I never argued against tweaking the mechanics. Jason's grab range is really wonky. I've seen him grab people when they were nowhere near him. He's grabbed people even though the grab wasn't pointed in their direction. The escape chance for counselors is laughable. There's no point in even having that grab break in its current state.

Definitely needs tweaking. But are you honestly suggesting adding a whole 3, 5, or 7 second delay is reasonable? That is giving counselors a HUGE advantage. And of all the times I've played Jason, at most I've had 3 counselors escape. It's pretty accurate to the movie.

The tweaks would be nice so the counselors can survive longer. Nothing sucks more than getting grabbed within the first 2 minutes of a round and dying coz you have no means of escape. Things like that need changing.

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32 minutes ago, iz2sick said:

Yea, I never argued against tweaking the mechanics. Jason's grab range is really wonky. I've seen him grab people when they were nowhere near him. He's grabbed people even though the grab wasn't pointed in their direction. The escape chance for counselors is laughable. There's no point in even having that grab break in its current state.

Definitely needs tweaking. But are you honestly suggesting adding a whole 3, 5, or 7 second delay is reasonable? That is giving counselors a HUGE advantage. And of all the times I've played Jason, at most I've had 3 counselors escape. It's pretty accurate to the movie.

The tweaks would be nice so the counselors can survive longer. Nothing sucks more than getting grabbed within the first 2 minutes of a round and dying coz you have no means of escape. Things like that need changing.

I don't recall myself saying giving grab kills a 7 second delay. I think 2.5 seconds or at 50% struggle meter, whichever happens first, is fair. 

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54 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

"Making it hard to escape for counselors" is not an excuse for legitimately broken game play.

As for Dodge for Jason, it would be like a quick step not some martial arts bull. 

To be fair this is beyond difficulty, its pretty much broken considering there a literally unused mechanics due to how other mechanics cancel them a little too hard is very misleading.
Its in call for an overhaul not simply making it hard or easy. There is an essence of skill

To be fair despite protests a grab cooldown is one of the few better things because counsellors with perks will be able to grief Jason with uncontrollable blocks and escapes.
I know the one I'd feel best as a player when Jason and Counsellor is grab cooldown because its not detrimental to how I play, when I grab I land it usually.

2 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I don't recall myself saying giving grab kills a 7 second delay. I think 2.5 seconds or at 50% struggle meter, whichever happens first, is fair. 

I think he made a mistake and he's just trying to get his point across, despite that its not going through for me honestly.

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12 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

I don't recall myself saying giving grab kills a 7 second delay. I think 2.5 seconds or at 50% struggle meter, whichever happens first, is fair. 

Yea, not talking about you there. The OP suggested that. That's the part I've been arguing against this entire time. And for some reason, West and Star took that as me saying it doesn't need any nerfing.

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On 6/9/2017 at 0:23 PM, StarringRole said:

 1. Grab is on a either a 3, 5 or 7 second cooldown, this way it can't be spammed. Its important to know that in the game characters who have any stats above 1 put into strength are essentially expected to have a sudden moment where they can fight back even if its not an incredible moment, but some self defence is required. This would mean counsellors have an opening to try and get back at Jason before he can pull of another grab. Most importantly the grab is literally destroying mechanics, there from current experience is no point in blocking or even entering combat stance. If that is going to be the case then remove it, because for the most part combat stance doesn't assist. Additionally a buff to compensate for this difference could be making it so that during stalk mode Jason is allowed to spam grab. This would reduce the amount of ridiculous moments that occur.

You're seriously beyond ridiculous at this point. Read your own post about the 3-7 second delay. Oh, my bad... I meant COOLDOWN. Which is the same difference as delay.

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28 minutes ago, iz2sick said:

Yea, not talking about you there. The OP suggested that. That's the part I've been arguing against this entire time. And for some reason, West and Star took that as me saying it doesn't need any nerfing.

 

24 minutes ago, iz2sick said:

You're seriously beyond ridiculous at this point. Read your own post about the 3-7 second delay. Oh, my bad... I meant COOLDOWN. Which is the same difference as delay.

I agree that a "cooldown" between grab ATTEMPTS(the player pressing the grab button) is not needed. I just think that a short delay between a successful grab and initiating an execution would be welcome.

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