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To be clear now, this subject is a little beyond just balance for me personally.
Currently Jason's grab is a little too strong and something I don't like personally is that it doesn't feel scary whatsoever.
When the game launched (I played the original beta) people didn't spam grab but now its begun to become a trend, simply grabbing.

Whenever I play as a counsellor I use look over shoulder to see behind me and each time I do it I see a Jason spamming grab without being close enough to me and honestly, its anti climatic. Jason players have began spamming this animation and now when in a chase it tends to look extremely stupid and its really somewhat taken the magic out of the grab kills (mostly because now its used for instant kills and its just spammed even when Jason isn't close enough to try and confirm a kill).

The grab has removed a lot of tension from the game as before players entered a grab frenzy you would find the occasional injured player running around the map for their life covered in blood, this is from my experience a rare occurrence and has taken lots of atmosphere from the game.

Additionally I need to state shift grab needs to be removed entirely. there is no counter play to a Jason who knows what he's doing. A lot of counsellors haven't got enough stamina or speed to waste zigzagging to evade  a shift grab and for the most part some Jason players are entirely perfect at landing shift grabs. I've managed to do them on occasion and my brother has become fairly capable at performing them with ease and one of my friends even more so.

The grab needs to change, and so do Jason's special executions. I am proposing a few alternatives without literally weakening Jason.

1. Grab is on a either a 3, 5 or 7 second cooldown, this way it can't be spammed. Its important to know that in the game characters who have any stats above 1 put into strength are essentially expected to have a sudden moment where they can fight back even if its not an incredible moment, but some self defence is required. This would mean counsellors have an opening to try and get back at Jason before he can pull of another grab. Most importantly the grab is literally destroying mechanics, there from current experience is no point in blocking or even entering combat stance. If that is going to be the case then remove it, because for the most part combat stance doesn't assist. Additionally a buff to compensate for this difference could be making it so that during stalk mode Jason is allowed to spam grab. This would reduce the amount of ridiculous moments that occur.

2.Make Combat stance immune to grabs till injured.

3.Combo attacks, following my 1. a good idea would be that if Jason strings two or three (probably two) consecutive hits that depending on the counsellors HP he can instantly string it into a special kill, a combo hit could lead to a stun assuming block is not used wisely by the counsellor. This is meant to be an attachment to point one.

4. Entirely block grabs to non injured targets

5. Turn grabs into button mash VS, atm there isn't counter play other than luck or hoping the current Jason wants to be fancy, a lot of Jason players don't want to be fancy. That an his kills charge up very quickly, in fact the reason some of then don't initiate from my experience is due to Jason's current area, by moving some kills disabled themselves while others enabled for me during the same grab. To be clear this idea is the one I'm most against, a Jason player who is weak behind the screen would then be unable to force themselves to perform well, point being that this could potentially be a little too hard for a Jason player.

I stopped playing Jason because I love trying to live out the final girl trope (my main problem that I spent one night being forced to play Jason because people wanted to see savini Jason so I needed a break).

Jason is very strong at the moment, I tend to land two hits on a counsellor before a grab, however one match I got forced to play Jason just last night and I decided to do an insta grab + shift grab round its far too easy. Its very easy to pull off a grab round in general and I say that as Savini Jason who has less grab strength (if I remember correctly). Also I am aware he does more melee damage put I didn't not hurt anyone these rounds, I focused on only grabs. Knifes are not common enough to save counsellors and the game will become stale if his grab goes on. I've barely seen any one play as Chad and I asked a few and people seem to value stamina/speed to highly. That being said the issue is that some characters are being undermined purely due to the grab from what I've witnessed. The game hasn't been out for a long time and the game is incredibly more balanced than it was in the beta, its came a long way and its not far off from being perfect.

I know many people are going to probably disagree with me stating that Jason is meant to kill everyone but when I die I don't have fun watching people drop all tactics purely off avoiding a grab. I don't like Jason comically spamming grab in the distance without getting anyone simply because he will eventually if he keeps up. Jason never did something like attacking the wind in the movies... I agree Jason should be once again, the killer but notably a problem is this isn't the movies. Its the game. Its balance and it has to be fun for both Jason and survivors. I get lots of fun spectating but when its a spam grab I know what goes through everyone's head and they start acting erratic because of grabs, in game chat I also hear many players screaming and swearing at Jason players because of grabs.

You can be a total horror geek, particularly of Jason and its entirely fine but you can't justify a function that even begins to make Jason look like a joke.
I have played Jason and the match is left partly to chance even for Jason, you never know what player is going to be filled with pocket knives and for those that aren't they don't have a chance to escape so long as the Jason player knows what they're doing.

Please try to be reasonable, don't justify Jason as needing spam grab, think around it because mechanics need to be fun and look cool, not look ridiculous and anti-fun. The movies or being a fan is not justifications. People even if they love it will come to a point where they dislike it. I like the movies and Jason destroys everything but it can't be perfect in the game.

Just an opinion, I hope people are willing to understand where I'm coming from. Because I certainly want the unique kills to be present but the persistent grabs and grabbing is not entirely healthy which I why I was trying to think of some alternatives.

Finally sorry if there is any mistakes in language or sentence structure.

 

 

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Are you kidding with the 3-7 second grab delay? That's beyond unreasonable. You're basically asking for shift to become completely useless. Without being able to grab after a shift within a reasonable amount of time, you are turning it into a weaker teleport. In fact, teleport would be way more useful as there's no grab cooldown after one.

And it's odd to see everyone complain about shift grab when it rarely happens to me. When it does, it's either because Jason is in stealth mode as well or I'm injured or out of stamina. I'm the latter situation, I'm unlikely to escape him anyway.

Learn to dodge it. It's not hard when you have some stamina. And again, if you're out of stamina, it's unlikely you're going to escape him anyway unless you get into a house. 

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27 minutes ago, iz2sick said:

Are you kidding with the 3-7 second grab delay? That's beyond unreasonable. You're basically asking for shift to become completely useless. Without. Wing able to grab after a shift within a reasonable amount of time, you are turning it into a weaker teleport. In fact, teleport would be way more useful as there's no grab cooldown after one.

And it's odd to see everyone complain about shift grab when it rarely happens to me. When it does, it's either because Jason is in stealth mode as well or I'm injured or out of stamina. I'm the latter situation, I'm unlikely to escape him anyway.

Learn to dodge it. It's not hard when you have some stamina. And again, if you're out of stamina, it's unlikely you're going to escape him anyway unless you get into a house. 

Grab delay? No its not a delay, its just means Jason can't spam it and ruin atmosphere by looking like a joke instead of being taken seriously. The times I stated were choices. I didn't mean 3-7, I meant those were options. 3 seconds is by no means making Jason weak, it just means you have enough time to spam it without looking ridiculous. it would mean you need an essence of skill. Jason is very easy to play at the moment. Which is no problem.

A 3 second cooldown would mean combat stance is not pointless and make the game feel more feature filled while still rewarding Jasons who have skill and don't button mash. Considering I play Savini Jason who has weaker grabs and I have no problem wiping everyone I think there is a problem.

I can pull of shift grabs they are too much. Every time you grab and miss you wait three seconds, its not that bad. Its approximately how much a Jason spends after missing a grab to achieve a successful one. Shift wouldn't be useless at all, its the fact you rely on a grab. I can play Jason by regular attack and grab, its easy and there's no reason to enter combat stance as Jason. There has to be one, that's why I'm recommending this. Besides I don't get what you mean, shift is for keeping up which it does fine.

The problem is that this grab technique is making players reject characters and to a degree with reason which will also make the game feel more stale. Grab needs a change to keep things varied or else people will do the same old.

I know how to dodge a shift grab, your telling that to the wrong person considering I know how perform a shift grab. I'm a little derpy at it because I like to give players a chance thus I don't do it but when you do it then its a little too easy.

 

From my perspective it seems more like your scared that you'd suddenly become bad at Jason because you relied solely on grabs. I'm able to play Jason with and without grabs, I don't mean to stand on a high horse, but this isn't just about balance but about how it looks in the game too. a 3 second grab cool down is not ridiculous. I was proposing numbers. I find it quite ridiculously that an entire combat system would be unused simply due to Jason players who can perform a certain play style.


You clearly are not thinking anything through.

 

On the side note, I'm surprised you haven't encountered shift-grab Jasons? From my experience they're common. It ensures a kill and I've came across two players who perform it flawlessly. A lot of players can do it regularly already as can I, but it really takes a lot of fun from the game, even as Jason.

 

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Okay you completely misunderstood the bulk of my comments.

 

First of all, you gave a 3-7 second cool down range on grabs. That is what you stated. And yes, that's ridiculous even when not grabbing out of shift. Imagine having a group of counselors surrounding you and you miss one of them. Now you have a 3-7 second cooldown until you can grab again while multiple counselors circle you. Yes, I rely on multiple grabs in succession when I'm ganged up on by counselors. Otherwise I like to throw knives and slash as I chase them down. I shift grab after being stunned by one or when they are injured/out of stamina. 

And I never said I don't come across shift grab Jasons. I said I rarely get caught by that move because it's pretty damn easy to avoid. You want to talk about skill? Then learn the art of dodging the shift grab. Yes, there are certain situations where its near impossible to do, but you're usually gonna die either way when in those situations like being injured or out of stamina. 

And this is Friday the 13th. Jason is supposed to kill you. Escaping is meant to be hard. That's all a part of the fun. If that frustrates you, then you are playing the wrong game. 

By the way, removing shift grab completely makes shift practically useless. Teleport will be the better option then unless you are shifting to stop the car or to reach a nearby house quicker. Not being able to grab within a reasonable amount of time after a shift is a get out of jail free card for some counselors that are very fast and high stamina.

If they nerf shift grab, then they need to need the speed of some counselors so Jason can hunt them reasonably. 

Another btw, I don't rely on shift grab. I use it as a tool. I'm a Jason that likes to stalk and throw knives. And I'm not one of those Jasons that have to kill counselors as soon as I spot them. 

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Shift grab is fine. In fact there are plenty of players that don't even know how to do it with any accuracy (myself included).

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42 minutes ago, iz2sick said:

Okay you completely misunderstood the bulk of my comments.

 

First of all, you gave a 3-7 second cool down range on grabs. That is what you stated. And yes, that's ridiculous even when not grabbing out of shift. Imagine having a group of counselors surrounding you and you miss one of them. Now you have a 3-7 second cooldown until you can grab again while multiple counselors circle you. Yes, I rely on multiple grabs in succession when I'm ganged up on by counselors. Otherwise I like to throw knives and slash as I chase them down. I shift grab after being stunned by one or when they are injured/out of stamina. 

And I never said I don't come across shift grab Jasons. I said I rarely get caught by that move because it's pretty damn easy to avoid. You want to talk about skill? Then learn the art of dodging the shift grab. Yes, there are certain situations where its near impossible to do, but you're usually gonna die either way when in those situations like being injured or out of stamina. 

And this is Friday the 13th. Jason is supposed to kill you. Escaping is meant to be hard. That's all a part of the fun. If that frustrates you, then you are playing the wrong game. 

By the way, removing shift grab completely makes shift practically useless. Teleport will be the better option then unless you are shifting to stop the car or to reach a nearby house quicker. Not being able to grab within a reasonable amount of time after a shift is a get out of jail free card for some counselors that are very fast and high stamina.

If they nerf shift grab, then they need to need the speed of some counselors so Jason can hunt them reasonably. 

Another btw, I don't rely on shift grab. I use it as a tool. I'm a Jason that likes to stalk and throw knives. And I'm not one of those Jasons that have to kill counselors as soon as I spot them. 

I'd respect your opinion but your clearly not listening to reason.

First of all, you shouldn't be missing a grab as Jason, its incredibly forgiving, at the moment it can be spammed and its radius is large, if you're missing a grab while being ganged up on you have nothing but your self to blame, second of all when you are getting ganged up on you don't grab. That's an overly reliant grab Jason. You don't do that, you're making the job harder just to ensure you can get an easy/quick kill, Jason has his normal attacks for this situation.

3 seconds is not ridiculous, if you really have to mash the grab button then counsellors shouldn't have to aim. His grab is very forgiving, its quick and easy with a pretty good radius, if you were actually good with Jason 3 seconds wont kill you. I've been group attacked by counsellors in a group and its really not that bad. You have knives and traps all at the same time to even out that situation. Its VERY easy to bait as Jason, a group attack is just free kills.

 

Its not easy to avoid, I don't mean to be rude to you but its Jason dependent and at the moment I have met lots of good Jasons. It does need to be stopped because its a mechanic that is stopping people from picking certain characters from what I've seen which is a slight dampener on the game. Once again, I'm not bad at this Jason, I have played it unctrollably as well as I played the beta I know very well what I'm doing. Just don't move in a straight line and be unpredictable, the issue is an accustomed Jason wont be affected, shift has nice speed and he will grab you. As I said some counsellors don't have the stamina to dodge it effectively either. Some characters are intended to fight Jason but its pointless because they can't due to grabs. For an entire system to be ignored due to a minor grab is ridiculous. If you get hit be counsellor with a bat you probably deserved it because its impossible to hit by them. They're super easy to dodge.

Also to be clear, I don't know if your misunderstanding, but I'm never injured in this game, I'm literally playing with Jasons who shift grab like Gods, something which happens to not even be that hard in the first place. The problem is this skill needs cap because its making an entire mechanic pointless.

 

As I said this isn't Friday the 13th, I don't know why you are saying this as a point. This is Friday the 13th the game, you have to take into account logical balance and atmosphere. Since I have had fun since this game came out I don't know where you got the idea I wasn't enjoying the struggle considering I prefer playing counsellor purely because its essentially hard.

Shift grab being removed wouldn't make it useless by the way, that's because you are overly reliant on grabs. As I said I'm capable of being a completely anti grab Jason and fully grab. You can't make this argument with me because I know what I'm saying. Shift is to keep up, wear out counsellors and stop cars, all his abilities are incredibly useful and if I had to keep one it would be shift even if it lost its shift grab, its his best ability.

Counsellors wouldn't need a nerf either, however I am open to the stats (stamina and speed) being nerfed as stats a tiny bit. But if you played the beta Jason was nerfed A LOT and there was a reason. It wasn't fun and Vanessa was OP. Well it was fun, but it wasn't right, it was too much, so assuming it happened once there is definitely room for more overhauls.

You may not rely on it, but by considering the way you worded a lot, you seem to entirely rely on it, I don't even get why you need multiple grabs let alone struggle with multiple counsellors attacking you. I respect you saying you don't like to kill them on the spot but you don't seem to realise on top of this that you aren't everyone. That applies to this situation to in general, but its something that needs to be addressed. Considering a weak grab Jason can pull it off effectively too.

Also to second poster I'm a little surprised as most people I have played with now it and can do it effectively, you will definitely learn it in time and not so long either.

To make it clear by the way, I'm proposing overhauls. To balance it out. I'm even willing to say Jason deserves buffs, but not in that department. The reason its a lot are so defensive of his grabs are because of how easy they actually are. I mean being a killer isn't even supposed to be an easy job, have you seen how Jason gets destroyed in some of the movies? It doesn't happen in the game cuz balance. You can't let everything slide and some things need to change even if it affects others. I don't believe in this case that outright nerf/buffs are gonna fix the underlying problems. Considering his grab can render some characters entirely useless the entire match there is a problem. Its almost like everyone defending Jason is deliberately following the player with intent of purely wasting his time and effectively at that.

 

That and I have to ask, I am sincerely curious as to what Jasons you guys are playing to justify this huge difficulty you experience as Jason?

For me personally I have played (Part 2, Part 3, Savinni, hell) and they are all reliable. The only Jason I struggled with was spear Jason who I did genuinely struggle as.

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1 hour ago, iz2sick said:

Now you have a 3-7 second cooldown until you can grab again while multiple counselors circle you. Yes, I rely on multiple grabs in succession when I'm ganged up on by counselors. Otherwise I like to throw knives and slash as I chase them down. I shift grab after being stunned by one or when they are injured/out of stamina. 

 

And this is Friday the 13th. Jason is supposed to kill you. Escaping is meant to be hard. That's all a part of the fun. If that frustrates you, then you are playing the wrong game. 

 

lol "ganged up by counselors", ive never seen a game where ganging up on jason ever worked...

ims tarting wonder why no one ever uses the lmb attack....hmmmm, is there even a point to use lmb 

and btw yes we are aware that its f13, giving counselors a lil bit of a fighting chance wont break the game any time soon

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What huge difficulty? Stop slinging mud. Again you misunderstand if that's what you got out of it. And yes, I'm going to grab when surrounded by counselors because it's harder for them stun me while I'm in animation. But that's my strategy, you don't have to agree with it. I don't cry about your strategy so don't cry about mine. You're suggestion makes no sense whatsoever and unreasonable. You didn't say a temporary delay, you said 3-7 seconds. That's simply absurd for non-skill move. 

Interesting you have such a hard time against grabs to suggest a 3-7 second cooldown, yet you're insinuating that I'm the one that needs to learn how to play.

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1 minute ago, westwarren said:

lol "ganged up by counselors", ive never seen a game where ganging up on jason ever worked...

ims tarting wonder why no one ever uses the lmb attack....hmmmm, is there even a point to use lmb 

and btw yes we are aware that its f13, giving counselors a lil bit of a fighting chance wont break the game any time soon

Yea it happens. Particularly by the car when they are trying to escape. Then it becomes a frenzy as they all try to stun me as I grab them up.

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4 minutes ago, iz2sick said:

Yea it happens. Particularly by the car when they are trying to escape. Then it becomes a frenzy as they all try to stun me as I grab them up.

my point exactly, grab makes the game uber easy, as it takes away any chance of the counselor to fight back, unless they have a knife that they have to be lucky to find 

no point in even having LMB in the game 

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Oh, okay. So you want a free escape when there are three or four counselors at the car with Jason. And as Jason, forget the grab and the strategy of aiming the counselor you're holding towards the others trying to stun you. Jason should just grab once and wait 3-7 seconds for the next grab. Free stun for the counselors and get away in the car. 

You guys make no sense.

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Anyway, I'm not opposed to a minor delay between grabs. I'm simply saying 3-7 seconds is overkill. And there sort of is a delay anyway. Jason stumbles a bit after a missed grab. That's an animation delay. Add another half second if it's that big a deal. But not 3-7. Be reasonable with your suggestions.

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12 minutes ago, iz2sick said:

Oh, okay. So you want a free escape when there are three or four counselors at the car with Jason.

 

oh ok being able to somewhat fight back, is a "free escape"  ... welp i didnt know that lol

but hey, keep ignoring the fact that LMB is a useless attack and the grab outshines it in every way

 

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Just now, westwarren said:

oh ok being able to somewhat fight back, is free escape 

i didnt know that lol

You can already fight back. See, this is how I know you guys are demanding change rather than using strategy.

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1 minute ago, iz2sick said:

You can already fight back. See, this is how I know you guys are demanding change rather than using strategy.

yeah, ok

lemme see

step 1.) swing at jason

step 2.) gets grabbed in the middle of the animation

... well that worked out well, oh well, again.... LMB is a worthless mechanic for both counselors and jason

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Get grabbed by Jason. Time your strike. If more than two people, get on both sides so Jason has a 50/50 chance to get counselor backstabbed. If grabbed person tells you to run, then get in the car and run coz Jason will be in animation lock.

No grab Jason in this situation? Maybe get one melee before getting stunned since counselor strikes don't have to be times in this scenario. 

Yea, it's a free escape every time unless they are without weapons. 

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12 minutes ago, iz2sick said:

Get grabbed by Jason. Time your strike. If more than two people, get on both sides so Jason has a 50/50 chance to get counselor backstabbed. If grabbed person tells you to run, then get in the car and run coz Jason will be in animation lock.

No grab Jason in this situation? Maybe get one melee before getting stunned since counselor strikes don't have to be times in this scenario. 

Yea, it's a free escape every time unless they are without weapons. 

oh gee, then jason grabs someone and initiates the kill animation, 0.2 seconds into the grab

so even with weapons the kill animations are invulnerable, so "free escape" my ass, weapons are almost useless with the current combat system the way it is

no grabs you say?, jasons weapon animation is super fast and will interrupt all counselors attack animations... 

counselor swings at jason, jason does a 360 rotation then grabs... bull shit

any semi decent jason will run through a group of counselors even with weapons, ive done it before multiple times, no issues, in fact its better if they group up, so you know where everyone is, more kills for you, i dont see how any one has problems with players grouping up

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I have no issues with Shift grabs, as I think there's both a degree of skill and a little bit of luck required there, along with fitting the appropriately powerful sense you get as being Jason. I see it as something akin to the Hunter's pounce from Left 4 Dead; if it connects, you're practically gone unless you have a helpful teammate nearby(or, in this game's case, a pocket knife would suffice as well). With that said, I can understand the concerns with them, especially from very early kills and the fact that the game does seem to encourage the option of solo play away from groups of other counselors. I'm not opposed to them having a chance at escaping without a pocket knife or without having to be a freshly introduced Tommy, who seems to be the only one with a legitimately high chance at escaping a grab kill that doesn't involve Jason attempting an environmental kill or finding the appropriate room to trigger a finisher.

Rather than outright removing that button mashing part, I tried to think of ways to make it less likely to let the newer, lesser skilled or just plain unlucky players avoid a grab related death early on. My main suggestion so far was factoring a character's strength, composure, health, current stamina and fear level. It would work in two parts- Composure and strength would require less button presses to escape, which is how I think Composure already functions. Current stamina would start the bar filled up to a certain amount, thereby reducing the button presses even more, though I would base this on flat rate stamina rather than the stat rating. This way someone with high stamina stats like Jenny wouldn't have more of the bar filled than Lachappa at full rest.

Now, Fear and player's current health would determine how long Jason would have to hold you before specific finishing moves light up, barring environmental finishers, which I think should always be available. So a frightened, bloody and itemless Jenny would have no means of surviving a grab, even with full stamina. I should add that I think the longer, flashier kills should have a risk/reward tied to taking more time to play out, possibly an XP bonus or maybe causing more fear for the counselors who see those specific bodies. If anything, longer animations reducing cooldowns of Jason's abilities would be my pick.

But I digress; the main idea here is to give players with full health and full stamina and low to no fear a chance at surviving a grab from Jason, especially before his shift even activates, and without having to alter the fundamentals of the game mechanics. Theoretically, this should also most likely make it easier for Jason to kill as the match continues, with Fear levels generally increasing while injuries and stamina drain from escape attempts add to that equation, thus appropriately increasing the tension as the game gets closer towards the end. It could also assist in appropriately mimicking the pacing of the films, which the occasional kills happening early on and then a large number often occurring close to a group towards the end. 

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1 hour ago, westwarren said:

oh gee, then jason grabs someone and initiates the kill animation, 0.2 seconds into the grab

so even with weapons the kill animations are invulnerable, so "free escape" my ass, weapons are almost useless with the current combat system the way it is

no grabs you say?, jasons weapon animation is super fast and will interrupt all counselors attack animations... 

counselor swings at jason, jason does a 360 rotation then grabs... bull shit

any semi decent jason will run through a group of counselors even with weapons, ive done it before multiple times, no issues, in fact its better if they group up, so you know where everyone is, more kills for you, i dont see how any one has problems with players grouping up

Again your comments show me you either don't play Jason well or your friends aren't playing counselors well. Come play my group of friends and see if you can do as you say when they are all at the car. You can't just grab them willy nilly and expect not to get stunned. 

But don't get me wrong... I've been in games with plenty of randoms that absolutely get shut down in this scenario. Again this tells me it's all dependent on skills of the players. 

But anyway, enough epeen measuring. I said I'm not opposed to some type of added delay. Just not 3-7 seconds. Hopefully you agree that is too much nerfing. 3-7 seconds is an incredibly long time.

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5 hours ago, iz2sick said:

Again your comments show me you either don't play Jason well or your friends aren't playing counselors well. Come play my group of friends and see if you can do as you say when they are all at the car. You can't just grab them willy nilly and expect not to get stunned. 

But don't get me wrong... I've been in games with plenty of randoms that absolutely get shut down in this scenario. Again this tells me it's all dependent on skills of the players. 

But anyway, enough epeen measuring. I said I'm not opposed to some type of added delay. Just not 3-7 seconds. Hopefully you agree that is too much nerfing. 3-7 seconds is an incredibly long time.

no, YOUR comments show you dont play jason well

you can initiate a kill animation in less than half a second after a grab....like wtf, and you accuse me of not playing jason well ROFL 

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7 hours ago, iz2sick said:

What huge difficulty? Stop slinging mud. Again you misunderstand if that's what you got out of it. And yes, I'm going to grab when surrounded by counselors because it's harder for them stun me while I'm in animation. But that's my strategy, you don't have to agree with it. I don't cry about your strategy so don't cry about mine. You're suggestion makes no sense whatsoever and unreasonable. You didn't say a temporary delay, you said 3-7 seconds. That's simply absurd for non-skill move. 

Interesting you have such a hard time against grabs to suggest a 3-7 second cooldown, yet you're insinuating that I'm the one that needs to learn how to play.

Before I reply to this quote I say I'm glad a few others did state an opinion, very happy in fact, even if there is disagreement I'm happy this is even being discussed.

Now onto my reply, the reason why I'm insinuating this is because a lot of what you say seems to heavily imply you are a grab Jason, you went as far as saying you grab people when they are in a group, which at least shows that you also probably believe that Jason's kills are pleasantly quick enough to trigger a pretty much instant kill which is the problem. So to some degree while I definitely don't mean to be rude to you I would say you appear to be a very grab reliant Jason as I wouldn't dare risk a grab in a group situation to just be stunned to infinity, that's if I was playing how I like to play which is a mixture of grab and hit since normal hit for both Jason and counsellor is kind of not needed in the game with its current state.

Also its not that its harder for them to stun you, its that they can't which I'm sure you know. During a kill animation the scene completely lacks interference (which I approve of) on the other hand as it goes the grab needs an overhaul so that the game doesn't have mechanics that loose value completely. From any logical standpoint you wouldn't add something to the game which isn't used. Which it is used but its Jason player dependent. That and I will cry about your strategy, I want people and myself too, especially if you can help yourself make the game easier in any case I was offering advice to some degree due to the fact you seem grab reliant, I didn't want to come off as offensive. Personally I don't mind, I have fun with this game, but I don't want to see the same survivors constantly in each line up purely because players don't want to get grabbed at all it makes the game boring and affects me far beyond balance and everyone else. Characters who have strength  are not able to face a good grab Jason making them have pointless stat points. That is why I feel a grab nerf is more necessary rather than any buff or nerf to counsellors for now. What I do feel partly is that perks could receive a small nerf.

My suggestion makes sense as you instantly erase a player from the match yet the game has mechanics and stats purely based of fighting Jason which there is no point if insta grab and kill jasons exist. My suggestions are pure suggestions, and I'm glad you could see I'm not an enforcer, what I want to enforce is the idea of an overhaul to the system. The only opinion I want changed is for players to understand a system needs to change even if its not for what I want in particular.

 

Also I'm frankly quite confused with the way you keep talking about my grab delay? Considering I listed multiple you are the one who seems scared of one in particular yet you say I'm the one having a hard time. The grab cooldown the way I intended  is that for every missed grab Jason must wait 3 seconds. Which I don't see the problem considering how forgiving the radius of the grab and the system is general. It would keep the fun of easy grabs just limit mindless spam and help stop those moments in which a Jason player spams it while you run away and it ruins the atmosphere.

You seem to imply I have such a hard time against grabs despite you are so confident that Jason needs something that looks stupid and can instantly change a match in a second without much skill, my minor nerf was simply to stop spammage and make it so players actually tried to aim it a little rather than just pressing it constantly where it also gave counsellors an opening and made an entire gameplay mechanic feel relevant (combat in general). Jason has no reason to enter combat stance and it applies to counsellors as well.

 

In your last post you say that its because my nerf was too much despite you being entirely against the idea, I don't have a problem I love the game. Its simply that the style and reliance on grab for any Jason player is too much and for many counsellor players it can be too much when you get a Jason who can perfect grab. Which currently in my experience there's a lot. Despite being a little or a lot, its still a mechanic begging for change of some sort.

The numbers I mentioned were idea numbers, I was personally most strongly leaning towards three seconds as it still actively allowed many grab attempts while still allowing the combat system to actually play an active role in general with Jason and Counsellors and making room for team play if there is a mistake.

At the moment though Jason can initiate a grab kill in the smallest time frame and the kill specifics are actually based on his positioning, so for the most part he can mostly always enable a fairly easy instant kill.

I personally have no fear of such a nerf because I'm not a grab reliant Jason. As I said I can play him two ways, I mean I simply want to make the game more interactive and fun. The road you go down is more rooting for only making Jason fun, which at the moment both are fun but a single mechanic is not the right fun.

 

So at the end of the day, the way you talk about how you play and the way you defend this subject I would actively say you are the one who appears to be a grab reliant Jason and I'm free to wanting that to change a small bit because even for myself after performing a grab match and seeing its simplicity was horrified at how little fighting chance the counsellors have. They barely even have a time frame to save another counsellor from a grab, so something does need to change no matter what.

I'm not scared of nerfs on either side because I'm actively aware of what I'm doing on the game, I will adapt with a new pace. The game isn't competitive and at the heart the mechanics are not time consuming for huge learning. So its not going to harm me so please don't the play the git gud card on me because I'm incredibly confident of my performance as Jason and Counsellors. Cocky? It may sound that way but I like to think I'm vouching for change for the better health of the game.

If they added Pamella as a killer I wouldn't want counsellors to be able to shotgun her and insta kill her and I would stand by thinking of mechanics for her, as I will for counsellors and Jason himself.

13 minutes ago, westwarren said:

no, YOUR comments show you dont play jason well

you can initiate a kill animation in less than half a second after a grab....like wtf, and you accuse me of not playing jason well ROFL 

I'm glad someone see's reason at the moment.

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If you nerf Jason's grab, you have to nerf auto-pilot pocket knives and force counselors to activate the correct button press soon as Jason grabs them to perform it.

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4 minutes ago, REO said:

If you nerf Jason's grab, you have to nerf auto-pilot pocket knives and force counselors to activate the correct button press soon as Jason grabs them to perform it.

By me saying to change Jason I'm certainly not saying that nothing else needs to change.

I do believe the game has more room to change balance wise.

Also I might have misunderstood you but from my experience pocket knives already require a key bind of sorts. You need to ensure its highlighted am I correct? Because knives definitely changed from the beta a little.

Unless you mean adding a new function to grabs as a counsellor nerf which I am fine with so long as its fun.

 

But with how quick at the moment Jason can insta kill with a grab a grab cooldown nerf still wouldn't justify knives being harder to use. It to cancel what is currently and instant kill, the grab cooldown is simply to stop spam for the most part and make more mechanics as a whole feel relevant.

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Just now, StarringRole said:

By me saying to change Jason I'm certainly not saying that nothing else needs to change.

I do believe the game has more room to change balance wise.

Also I might have misunderstood you but from my experience pocket knives already require a key bind of sorts. You need to ensure its highlighted am I correct? Because knives definitely changed from the beta a little.

Unless you mean adding a new function to grabs as a counsellor nerf which I am fine with so long as its fun.

No, you don't have to have pocket knives highlighted to have them activate. Soon as you pick up a pocket knife, you never have to "interact" with it again. It does everything automatically by itself once Jason grabs you and it's terrible game design.

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Just now, REO said:

No, you don't have to have pocket knives highlighted to have them activate. Soon as you pick up a pocket knife, you never have to "interact" with it again. It does everything automatically by itself once Jason grabs you and it's terrible game design.

 

Are you sure?
I'm not joking but this only happened in the beta for me, in the full game I've had to highlight pocket knives to ensure my counsellor uses them otherwise I wind up dead. So unless I experienced a glitch but ever since the first time it happened to me I've made sure to always highlight a pocket knife. Otherwise I think even if what I experienced was a glitch this is actually a fairly fine nerf as its not drastic and to be honest I'm already playing like this.

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