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12 hours ago, Pappus said:

You made a critical  mistake in your argument. You assume that the majority of players is good, which is automatically false. Good & bad players are always the minority. Most are average.

Even if I did the average players are OBVIOUSLY not bad at the game and probably don't get shift grabbed and complaining about it.

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14 hours ago, XRizerX said:

The shift + grabbing is actually cancer and I agree with the TC... even though I'm a backer and am enjoying the game, there's something wrong with shifting + grabbing as Jason.

I feel like the dev's should lock his grab for 2 seconds after a shift and only allow him to attack with his weapon, the trade off is that his weapon range should be 1.25x the range after a shift so it's almost a guaranteed hit. So long as counselors run thick skinned (which is basically the best perk in the game) they should have a better chance even if they get cheap shotted by Jason's weapon after a shift...

But yeah, grabbing should only be allowed when in combat range of a counselor and not immediately after a shift. That way if someone does decide to fight you, you can just grab them and kill them easily. It's also a lot more akin to the movies where someone just keeps running full blast and Jason just methodically walks behind them until they trip / fall (in this game's case, run out of stamina) and then Jason goes in for the kill.

I agree that shifting + grabbing needs to just disappear... it really does kill the game and most people who get caught by it in the first 5 minutes of a match just rage out any way... so it's not helping any one at this point... most people just D/C to deny the try hard Jason's XP and the person playing as Jason never even has to try. There's never a full lobby of amazing counselors any way... you might get 1 super annoying one but you could always just save that person until the end of the game and tunnel them until they finally run out of options.

See you don't see shift grab ID not cheap it's the grab it self because no one can get out of it that's what needs fixed  that's what makes Jason over powered I wouldn't mine the Cheese E shift grab if u can get out of it

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How often do you think a player should be able to get out of Jason's grab? What percentage?

 

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13 minutes ago, Nomadder said:

How often do you think a player should be able to get out of Jason's grab? What percentage?

 

I wouldn't ask some of these guys because their probably gonna say 99% of the time lol

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26 minutes ago, SSR GOKU BLACK said:

See you don't see shift grab ID not cheap it's the grab it self because no one can get out of it that's what needs fixed  that's what makes Jason over powered I wouldn't mine the Cheese E shift grab if u can get out of it

Again you can get out of it pocket knives or throw down firecrackers as soon as he shifts and stand in them or make sure your with other counselors and they can just hit him, it's not instant death like people think just takes timing of the swing trust me I've done it dozens of times.

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On 6/9/2017 at 5:45 PM, Nomadder said:

How often do you think a player should be able to get out of Jason's grab? What percentage?

Should be based off fear and being injured

 

On 6/9/2017 at 6:00 PM, Cyb3rReapet said:

Again you can get out of it pocket knives or throw down firecrackers as soon as he shifts and stand in them or make sure your with other counselors and they can just hit him, it's not instant death like people think just takes timing of the swing trust me I've done it dozens of times.

Again you there only so many of the knifes and again what's the point of smashing the a button if it doesn't work I'm done talking to people who don't listen if your going to make Jason grab instant kill u u need to take composure off and the button smash waste of time 

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When I get off of work I want to chime in some on a few points. Please everybody stay civil so this thread can stay productive and informative. It seems everybody is going in circles. 

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2 minutes ago, SSR GOKU BLACK said:

Again you there only so many of the knifes and again what's the point of smashing the a button if it doesn't work I'm done talking to people who don't listen if your going to make Jason grab instant kill u u need to take composure off and the button smash waste of time 

I agree with you about it being a waste of time smashing the a button and the limited amount of pocket knives. But there are many firecrackers and there is also a perk to start you with some and one to start you with a pocket knife as well. I am listening and I'm understanding your frustration but your only looking at it from the counselors perspective and not Jason's for example there has been several games where me and my friends have found all the parts to fix the car or boat and escape in, I think my fastest time is, 3 min. 27 sec. Also there has been several games where the fuse to repair the phone box and call the cops is in the house with the phone itself so that instantly cuts your time from 20 min. instantly to 5 min. so in some situations you need to be able to get that quick kill off. But you won't be able to do that if you constantly have to keep chasing the same counselor.

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1 minute ago, Cyb3rReapet said:

I agree with you about it being a waste of time smashing the a button and the limited amount of pocket knives. But there are many firecrackers and there is also a perk to start you with some and one to start you with a pocket knife as well. I am listening and I'm understanding your frustration but your only looking at it from the counselors perspective and not Jason's for example there has been several games where me and my friends have found all the parts to fix the car or boat and escape in, I think my fastest time is, 3 min. 27 sec. Also there has been several games where the fuse to repair the phone box and call the cops is in the house with the phone itself so that instantly cuts your time from 20 min. instantly to 5 min. so in some situations you need to be able to get that quick kill off. But you won't be able to do that if you constantly have to keep chasing the same counselor.

Did you actually see that pocket knife perk? I have rolled so often and never saw it once, I did however see a dagger perk I so far never rolled.

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1 minute ago, Pappus said:

Did you actually see that pocket knife perk? I have rolled so often and never saw it once, I did however see a dagger perk I so far never rolled.

Yea I have my buddy I play with has it.

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1 minute ago, Cyb3rReapet said:

Yea I have my buddy I play with has it.

Is the icon that dagger?

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3 minutes ago, Pappus said:

Did you actually see that pocket knife perk? I have rolled so often and never saw it once, I did however see a dagger perk I so far never rolled.

I never saw that perk what's it do

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8 minutes ago, Pappus said:

Is the icon that dagger?

My apologies he had the slugger perk that spawns you with a bat that does increased damage, there's also a perk that spawns with you with first aid spray and gives you multiple uses, and a perk that spawns you with firecrackers with and increased range. But I think it might exist I'm not sure but here's a link where a few others were discussing this: 

But before I seen this link I also heard that it spawns you with a pocket knife and gives you two uses of it.

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2 minutes ago, Cyb3rReapet said:

My apologies he had the slugger perk that spawns you with a bat that does increased damage, there's also a perk that spawns with you with first aid spray and gives you multiple uses, and a perk that spawns you with firecrackers with and increased range. But I think it might exist I'm not sure but here's a link where a few others were discussing this: 

But before I seen this link I also heard that it spawns you with a pocket knife and gives you two uses of it.

Spawning and two uses is a myth. Even the pocket knife perk itself is unlikely but certainly not two uses of it.

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1 minute ago, Pappus said:

Spawning and two uses is a myth. Even the pocket knife perk itself is unlikely but certainly not two uses of it.

Probably but it wouldn't be a bad idea to add it though, because the med spray perk does it.

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Adding more pocketknives would be a disaster. 4 is already plenty. What's with you guys, I thought you wanted Jason's grab to be OP? 

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On 6/8/2017 at 3:53 PM, CreepingDeath said:

Well someone certainly like to itemize.

You caught me. I do like organization. 

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Yes, for fairness. Do you think you should be able to be picked up while Jason is invisible? You want people to have a survival instinct and to know they are going to have to play tough to survive, not think its a hopeless cause. 

I'm glad you said that because the point I'm trying to make is the game isn't supposed to be fair. It's meant to be difficult to survive and Jason is meant to be OP. That's f13's balance. I know you understand and accept that, but what your proposing WILL inadvertently change those points.

I get what your saying. Your saying that Jason shift-grabbing you in unfair to an extreme degree. That he shouldn't be able to grab you while invisible. That this mechanic is so ridiculously OP that it's not even a question of how strong Jason is or if the game is balanced or not. But rather that there is little to no defense towards the mechanic and it just doesn't make sense that it's even in the game. That just having it creates a feeling of, "I can't do anything to combat this". 

My take on it though, is that the SG mechanic isn't ridiculously OP whatsoever. That it should absolutely be included. That shift grabbing is an integral part of the game and must stay for a multitude of reasons including balancing and so Jason himself has a defense against counselor tactics. That there are many defenses already put in place to try and thwart it, and that if you are feeling like you can't do anything at all as a counselor, that you need to play a little more. I'm not saying those of you having difficulty with it are bad players. You just need to learn how how to cope with it and try new things because SG isn't something that cannot be out played or out-maneuvered. 

Your looking at it from the perspective of the counselors. You have to realize that Jason has a limited amount of time to kill the counselors as well. Sometimes a quick kill is necessary if Jason can pull it off. If the counselors are all working together for example, Jason needs a method of splitting them up. To hit them at their strongest. Because if he's running off trying to get just one kill for most of the match, whats left?

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In my example, I tell you there is no indication to inform you he is around, you are going about trying to complete objectives, what exactly is better positioning when moving between cabins looking for items and then suddenly youre in his grab?

You should be hearing his music or seeing that static when he enters your area. That's assuming he hasn't unlocked Stalk yet. If your not, that's not an issue with SG itself but a different issue all together. And if you're alone at the beginning of a match with a not so stealthy counselor and are just searching cabins, try making an oval path to the next cabin instead of a direct line. Little things like that will go a long way to increase your chances of outsmarting him.   

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The car I can let slide more than being grabbed because you still have a chance to do something after he stops the car, but being in his grab and then having an almost instant execution is not fun. Sometimes itll happen, fine, but it should be dependent on variables such as I listed. Reread my post, at no point did I say I need a constant indicator of his location, I was simply describing a scenario that there was no indication (no visual contact, no chase music, no red indicator on the minimap) of his proximity. 

As soon as you get in that car, you have to expect Jason will be on you. You have to expect that he will do anything within his power to stop as many counselors as he can. And if you're the driver you're a target right away. If your not prepared (as the driver) to escape him if he catches the car, then don't drive or take the chance. And sure, being instant killed is not fun, dying never is. But that's still not an issue with SG. And in a game like F13, killing is something you should be seeing a hell of a lot.  

Most Jason's use shift to get in front of the car anyway. If he's shifting to stop the car and then walking over to the drivers side to get a counselor that wasn't fast enough and was unprepared, well they die. If he's walking/running to stop the car and then SG'ing, the driver should have been more careful.  

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You honestly think its silly that a full health or high composure character should have a higher chance of escaping his grasp than an injured or low composure councilor?

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Again context; Im not arguing about having Jason morph right next to you seconds into a game, that might happen, does happen and more often than not I survive situations like that, because Jason doesnt have all his tricks yet, so its easy enough to get away if you play smart and get a little lucky. 

My point was that early into the game, the councilor should have no fear and full health. Right? So if you do get unlucky and he morphs right next to you and you do get caught, isnt it reasonable in that situation for that councilor to stand a pretty good chance of getting out of that grip, especially if they have high composure or strength? Wouldnt it be reasonable to say that person probably should have a better chance of escaping his grip than someone half way through the match, that is injured and doesnt have the highest strength or composure, or high fear levels?

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Again, I already explained this. A full health, high strength or composure councilor should realistically struggle longer before Jason can perform a kill. That would give incentive to hunting and injuring councilors before grabbing them, because there is a good chance if you dont, they will get out of the grip and cause you to be momentarily stunned. Stop blowing things out of proportion, Im not asking for drastic changes to the game. Im asking for the mechanics IN the game to work more in line with the way they have been described to us. 

Your logic there is sound and it makes sense in theory outside of F13. But your missing some things regarding the practicality of something like that being integrated into the game. If all high health counselors had the ability to much more easily escape Jason, I'm assuming we would then expect more early game escapes (because otherwise, why else would we include it?). This fundamentally changes how the game works. It gives counselors a major boost and adds on a higher chance of not only Jason escapes but map escapes as well. I know you think of this as a fair and balanced addition, but it really isn't. The chance to escape should be same whether your healthy or not. It should depend on your ability to not get grabbed and to use the items available to you. And even if you are grabbed, to have a plan of action if it happens.  

If a counselor is out in the open, and Jason sees him, why should he be able to get away quicker just because he has high health? Why should Jason have to then chase after him and spend more time on him while the other counselors further fortify themselves or escape? Counselors are no slouchers here. If Jason has the opportunity to kill a counselor he should be able to if they cannot out-maneuver, out smart or out number him as they already have the capability of doing so. It's Jason for Gods sakes. It shouldn't be an even playing field. If the counselor hasn't found any items for an escape he still has cabins to get in and out of. He has friends to help him out. If he doesn't have any of those then... well too bad. Your on your own.

Going a little off topic here. How many characters in the movies actually fight him off once grabbed? They can run and that buys them more time to escape and regroup, but how many after actually being physically grabbed by Jason get away? Not many. This game is based on the movies, and I think they have recreated it perfectly. But I realize that this is a game and not a movie. I realize that gameplay and a certain level of balance has to be achieved. But I think that already has been done. And quite well. Counselors in the game have a ton at their disposal already to get away. Currently at all points, the ability to escape relies on not only chance and luck of getting items but on skill as well. You fear being grabbed by Jason because that means trouble. To avoid being grabbed you have many things at your disposal from items, to tactics to teamwork etc. You run away from Jason so you aren't grabbed. But even if you are grabbed you have the pocket knife, you have the mash bar (that can be useful yes), you have friends etc. Your making it out to seem that if you are grabbed your completely screwed and have a very low chance of escaping. And that's not true all the time. Now it's not necessarily easy once your grabbed (and it shouldn't be) but it is in no way a lost cause. Can you get insta killed? Yes. But if that wasn't an option the game would take forever. Counselors do not need more chances to escape. They need to be more efficient and well rounded players. They need to learn and adapt to Jason and how he plays. Sometimes you can die very quickly if your in the wrong place at the wrong time, but that's apart of the game. 

Now getting back on track, if high health meant easier escapes which means low heath meant harder ones in comparison, just think about what that would mean for late game counselors. How many people do you think would actually survive or have a true chance if Jason escape was measured on health or composure late game? Their ability to escape would be minimized. What would stop Jason from abandoning grabbing altogether and just slashing away at counselors early in game because grabbing became inefficient? Don't you think, that we would be then getting an influx of complaints from those who find that annoying and broken?  

If low health meant easier kills (in theory), if someone were alone, got badly injured, couldn't find any health sprays and then escaped (Jason) early game, what motivation would they have to stick around or even try anymore? They know if they get caught again, they have an even lower chance of escaping than they ever had. Health sprays would then become an item that also allowed you to have an easier escape. Currently, if you get injured, yeah its harder to run away, but you have the same chance of escaping Jason that everyone else does. A kill can still be stopped by another counselor in time.

If it was based on composure (now correct me if I'm not understanding you because I don't know whether your talking about the composure stat or the level of fear a counselor has), you would be seeing a lot of "copy counselors" in matches. Because if it's easier to escape Jason with a high composure character, why would people choose any others?

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I have about 180 matches under my belt and 1 thing is for sure, Jasons are getting a lot better at this game. I played 10 matches yesterday and only twice did more than 1 councilor escape, and only half the matches had any survivor at all. First few days, I played multiple matches where everyone escaped.

Yes Jason's are becoming better at the game. But the counselors are too. Players in general are becoming better. I think your expecting a higher number of counselors (players) to survive at a constant rate. 50/50. If some are reaching that then good, your doing well and have adapted to the game. The point of this game is Jason is OP and he kills you. Now it shouldn't be to a degree where you go into a match expecting to die nor should you be expecting to survive. You shouldn't be expecting anything. But it shouldn't be an even play field also. 

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Im perfectly happy with the game, and average about a 50% survival rate as councilor and about 6-7 kills as Jason. Im merely suggesting that having a few MINOR tweaks to EXISTING mechanics would prevent those mechanics from being seen as cheap bullshit, but rather powerful tools that can be both used and countered by skilled players on either side of the mask. 

I am too very happy with it. I have about the same rate with the current mechanics as well. IMHO and I could be completely missing something, that these tweaks (not speaking on the delay for Jason kills as I have to think about that for a bit) will hurt the game and cause balancing issues. 

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16 hours ago, Pappus said:

Did you actually see that pocket knife perk? I have rolled so often and never saw it once, I did however see a dagger perk I so far never rolled.

I forgot to ask what does the perk with a picture of a dagger do I haven't seen that one 

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