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nax

Jason's Grabs Are Connecting Mid Swing

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This has been brought up separately in other threads but this needs to be its own thread for visibility and simplicity's sake. For whatever reason, whether it's I-frame based or how grab is coded, grab is literally grabbing people mid swing or at the moment Jason would be taking damage normally. Unfortunately, this issue is not only breaking immersion and basically creating some very very glitchy/wonky situations, it's also dumbing down the melee system artificially. As Jason, I have no reason to use the block system. If I can time a grab right I can just ignore their attempts at swinging at me. This seems to fly in the face of Jason even having a combat system as why bother using it and blocking when you can simply time a grab for when they'd "hit" you and avoid damage + get a grab at the same time?

Overall whatever is causing it also seems to be causing cursory issues like 180 degree grabs. What I assume is happening is that there is a simple check created in an area the moment Jason presses the button. If someone is in that area, they are grabbed. This would explain the 180 degree grabs (when Jason makes a grab attempt but turns immediately, yet still grabs the person despite them being almost totally behind Jason by the time the animation for the grab is performed) and the "grab through melee" if its the case.

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31 minutes ago, nax said:

This has been brought up separately in other threads but this needs to be its own thread for visibility and simplicity's sake. For whatever reason, whether it's I-frame based or how grab is coded, grab is literally grabbing people mid swing or at the moment Jason would be taking damage normally. Unfortunately, this issue is not only breaking immersion and basically creating some very very glitchy/wonky situations, it's also dumbing down the melee system artificially. As Jason, I have no reason to use the block system. If I can time a grab right I can just ignore their attempts at swinging at me. This seems to fly in the face of Jason even having a combat system as why bother using it and blocking when you can simply time a grab for when they'd "hit" you and avoid damage + get a grab at the same time?

Overall whatever is causing it also seems to be causing cursory issues like 180 degree grabs. What I assume is happening is that there is a simple check created in an area the moment Jason presses the button. If someone is in that area, they are grabbed. This would explain the 180 degree grabs (when Jason makes a grab attempt but turns immediately, yet still grabs the person despite them being almost totally behind Jason by the time the animation for the grab is performed) and the "grab through melee" if its the case.

You are right about the combat stance there is no reason for anyone to use it. I posted this a lot already but more the merrier. In regards to combat and how it works Jason is fine. Maybe add some more recovery frames after a missed grab or more recovery frames after a missed or blocked attack but that would be as far as I go. Combat needs to work a little differently however on the counselor side. Swinging a weapon or holding block  should drain stamina  and strength should affect stamina cost for swinging and holding block. You should also be able to block Jason's grab and add more recovery frames to a blocked grab. They also need to add some invincibility frames for dodging because you can be grabbed out of your dodge animation. the only other thing that I would change is have strength affect attack speed. The stealth characters would have more ways of dealing with Jason without making them too effective at combat ,which they're not supposed to be, while making the combat oriented characters more useful and fun to play as.

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I agree with alot of what you're saying but I kind of made this thread as a one issue topic: basically just related to the issue with Jason being able to grab through a counselor's weapon swing as it would connect.

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44 minutes ago, nax said:

I agree with alot of what you're saying but I kind of made this thread as a one issue topic: basically just related to the issue with Jason being able to grab through a counselor's weapon swing as it would connect.

That happens just because the grab animation is really short a lot shorter than the counselors' swing animation. Counselors' swing animation is also longer than Jason's swing animation and there is pretty much no recovery time between animations. He can also grab you out of any animation even the dodging animation.

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I defiantly think if your counselor is already mid swing grab shouldn't work on them and it would defiantly put a larger emphasis on the combat stance. I have been in so many games where Jason grabs me at the exact moment my weapon would have hit him and it's so frustrating 

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Weapons on a counselor are only useful in groups of 3 maybe 2. If you are running around alone with a weapon it does nothing for your gameplay. It would be more fun and infinitely smoother if holding a weapon would just auto block a swing from Jason and break at this point. It will give us more to do than just jump in a cabin and around some furniture. I can't see a combat overhaul in the near future. The evade could be salvaged with grab immunity  and if it were not half a step in your direction. Not asking for a barrel roll just needs a skip in that step. Autolocking face to face with jason is surrender at this point.

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The dodge needs to be a separate button instead of double tapping a direction. I have double tapped a whole lot and my guy would just stand by all derpy. If the SHIFT key on the keyboard was made into a dedicated dodge button, that would be a helluva lot better.

And counselors should be able to block Jason's grabs. As for Jason grabbing mid-swing, I think if he grabs at you within the first HALF of the animation, i.e. when the counselor is winding up the swing, it should connect, but in the last half of it, when the weapon is between directly overhead and going towards Jason, the grabs should not connect and Jason would get hit.

And while we're at it, give Jason a dodge mechanic as well. Perhaps not "dodge" per se but a "quick step" in a direction.

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Bumping for more visibility. I (and others) have gotten good enough at grabbing people out of melee that we can do it on reaction. Outside of lag issues it's nearly foolproof. As far as game fixes go this should be on a priority as we're only gonna get better at grab punishing.

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