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bocchiere

Change to make the grab less of an instant kill.

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So at this point if Jasons grab you its basically an instant kill. If you're not 10/10 composure you have almost no chance to make it out without a pocket knife. So here is my idea to make it a little more fair.

When Jason grabs you instead of you having to mash the button 100 times in 1 second to escape both you and Jason play the repair QTE. 

Assuming the councilor is undamaged the QTE plays at the same speed for him and Jason. 

If Jason wins he can perform a kill from his wheel or walk around for a few seconds to try and get a context kill. 

If the councilor wins he escapes the grab. 

If they tie Jason stabs the councilor, damaging them as if he had struck them with a melee attack. I then think they should either do the QTE again or the councilor escapes. 

However if the councilor is already damaged when Jason grabs them Jason's QTE should move much faster depending on how damaged they are encouraging Jason to use his melee. 

What do you guys think of this? 

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I really like this, it's almost impossible to get out of Jason's grab. I still think Jason needs to have the upper hand, so maybe have jason with the easier qte, damaged councilor or not. It'll still give you more of a chance then mash "e".

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Only certain grab kills r almost instant. Others take a few seconds to pop up. I personally like it how it is as this adds to the horror and suspense of the game and the qte would take that away.

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5 hours ago, Luckystrike2778 said:

Only certain grab kills r almost instant. Others take a few seconds to pop up. I personally like it how it is as this adds to the horror and suspense of the game and the qte would take that away.

I mean there already is a QTE of sorts it's just a remarkably ineffective one.

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For now I think it should stay as it is until we can see how perks can play into this. Though I would like to see an interaction "E" that other players around you can do "if they have a weapon" to break his grasp on you. As it stands now you have to hit him with a weapon before he raises them all the way up and even then it does not seem to work all the time. If I have a baseball bat and Jason grabs my friend I should be able to run up to him and hit "E" before he starts the kill animation to break the hold. Though I think the weapon should always get destroyed when you do this. 

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1 minute ago, Dadpool said:

For now I think it should stay as it is until we can see how perks can play into this. Though I would like to see an interaction "E" that other players around you can do "if they have a weapon" to break his grasp on you. As it stands now you have to hit him with a weapon before he raises them all the way up and even then it does not seem to work all the time. If I have a baseball bat and Jason grabs my friend I should be able to run up to him and hit "E" before he starts the kill animation to break the hold. Though I think the weapon should always get destroyed when you do this. 

It would be nice to be able to do that efficiently because ive had the same problem with hits seeming not to register.

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11 minutes ago, Dadpool said:

For now I think it should stay as it is until we can see how perks can play into this. Though I would like to see an interaction "E" that other players around you can do "if they have a weapon" to break his grasp on you. As it stands now you have to hit him with a weapon before he raises them all the way up and even then it does not seem to work all the time. If I have a baseball bat and Jason grabs my friend I should be able to run up to him and hit "E" before he starts the kill animation to break the hold. Though I think the weapon should always get destroyed when you do this. 

THIS

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Instant killing without even giving a chance to break free is a flaw I agree but there are a couple of things which turn it into a major flaw:

  1. Jasons can also just spam basic attack with zero repercussions, personally I think Dead by Daylight got the attack system spot on, if you miss or connect there is a short delay before you can swing again; it worked in DBD, it will work even better in FF13 due to Jason having way more ways of catching up to players anyway + finding them.
  2. There are a lot of moments when Jason picks you up and the sequence of a kill starts so fast that even if you have a friend right next to you, by the time they have done the animation to hit Jason it's too late as the "Death sequence" has already started and can't be interrupted.
  3. When in "death animation" not only can you not stop it with a melee attack, even the guns do absolutely nothing, I can maybe get on board with him tanking a few melee hits but just ignoring a bullet..come on.
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Firstly, I love F13 a lot. I've been addicted to it since beta and I've been going at it nonstop since launch. Thanks for a great game. :)

I really like a lot of these ideas:

Having to do a QTE to get out of Jason's grab sounds really interesting. I think it'd be cool if they had a certain amount of time to escape the grab before Jason can get an execution instead of just being a meter that automatically fills up. You could have it based on composure instead of repair and it would be a fun little mini-game instead of just mashing the 'e' button or getting killed instantly.

 

I think this would also encourage Jason to enter combat mode if he's outnumbered against a lot of counselors, since now there would be a time limit and he'd easily be forced to let a counselor go. You could probably shorten the timer based on how injured or afraid they are, just to give him an edge against people he's been harrassing.

 

Melee spam kills have also been a pretty big issue for a lot of people, though it's fun when you run into Jasons that don't expect you to block and retaliate. I think punishing Jason for a whiffed or blocked attack seems fair, just a small stutter to help counselors make a decision. I understand that Jason should be intimidating and he very often instantly murdered people in the movies, but from a gameplay standpoint it would be more fun to have the counselors contest him and be at more of a disadvantage due to their fear and condition. I've never lost more than one survivor so far playing as Jason and it'd be nice to see some 'cat and mouse' playstyle encouraged. Those games are always the most fun.

Lemme know how you guys feel about these changes.

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This is the one thing about the game that pisses me off. It's literally so unfair, if he grabs you just once and you haven't got a pocket knife you're dead. Sometimes he grabs you and you have time to break free but other times he grabs you and executes you near enough instantly, I don't know how they've made this work but it's wrong. I think it should be worked out by how injured the counsellor is, I think if your not damaged at all you should always be able to break through and the more damaged you are the harder it is, this will encourage Jason to melee you before he starts going around grabbing. It's so unfair to not even be injured and then 3 mins into the match you get instant killed from one grab. I did put this in the feedback form after the beta but they obviously didn't listen lol

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16 hours ago, bocchiere said:

So at this point if Jasons grab you its basically an instant kill. If you're not 10/10 composure you have almost no chance to make it out without a pocket knife. So here is my idea to make it a little more fair.

When Jason grabs you instead of you having to mash the button 100 times in 1 second to escape both you and Jason play the repair QTE. 

Assuming the councilor is undamaged the QTE plays at the same speed for him and Jason. 

If Jason wins he can perform a kill from his wheel or walk around for a few seconds to try and get a context kill. 

If the councilor wins he escapes the grab. 

If they tie Jason stabs the councilor, damaging them as if he had struck them with a melee attack. I then think they should either do the QTE again or the councilor escapes. 

However if the councilor is already damaged when Jason grabs them Jason's QTE should move much faster depending on how damaged they are encouraging Jason to use his melee. 

What do you guys think of this? 

It's not a bad idea; my only suggestion on this is that Jason shouldn't play the QTE.  To counteract, Jason should do the button mashing in an attempt to counter the councilor's QTE progress.  This will give Jason a slight advantage, which makes sense because... well, he's Jason.

Other than that, I like your ideas.  Also, Tommy should have an easier time escaping Jason's grasp.  Not OP easy, but slightly better than a scared teenage councilor.

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17 hours ago, bocchiere said:

So at this point if Jasons grab you its basically an instant kill. If you're not 10/10 composure you have almost no chance to make it out without a pocket knife. So here is my idea to make it a little more fair.

When Jason grabs you instead of you having to mash the button 100 times in 1 second to escape both you and Jason play the repair QTE. 

Assuming the councilor is undamaged the QTE plays at the same speed for him and Jason. 

If Jason wins he can perform a kill from his wheel or walk around for a few seconds to try and get a context kill. 

If the councilor wins he escapes the grab. 

If they tie Jason stabs the councilor, damaging them as if he had struck them with a melee attack. I then think they should either do the QTE again or the councilor escapes. 

However if the councilor is already damaged when Jason grabs them Jason's QTE should move much faster depending on how damaged they are encouraging Jason to use his melee. 

What do you guys think of this? 

I've already posted something to prevent early insta death.

I'm fine with insta death.  The problem is dying too early from it.

My suggestion was that any grab attempts fail unless the counselor has less than 50% health.

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Here is my 2 cents on this discussion. I personally believe it's balanced and not a problem. I think people just want to run wild without consequences. There are consequences for your actions make wise decisions. If you are going to run in a straight line and be out in the wilderness well that is kind of dangerous. Limit your outside time as best you can. Have I been installed grabbed sure, it happens, made an error and was dead out in the open. Try ducking Into some cabins, do not run in one direction, make Jason work for it. 

This game comes at a learning curve but I am pretty confident as time passes players will be better and you will stand a better chance at surviving the night.

If he's grabs you and you aren't prepared well you kind of have it coming.

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I think the current format works fine. Sure, getting grabbed and killed sucks, but you know the stats for each character and therefore know their weakness. 

On top of that, many Jason grabs take time to utilize or require more space. A QTE battle makes it much too easy for the counselors to escape. 

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1 hour ago, JPops said:

Here is my 2 cents on this discussion. I personally believe it's balanced and not a problem. I think people just want to run wild without consequences. There are consequences for your actions make wise decisions. If you are going to run in a straight line and be out in the wilderness well that is kind of dangerous. Limit your outside time as best you can. Have I been installed grabbed sure, it happens, made an error and was dead out in the open. Try ducking Into some cabins, do not run in one direction, make Jason work for it. 

This game comes at a learning curve but I am pretty confident as time passes players will be better and you will stand a better chance at surviving the night.

If he's grabs you and you aren't prepared well you kind of have it coming.

That is possible, it is definitely frustrating and no one is super good at the game yet. 

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1 hour ago, JPops said:

Here is my 2 cents on this discussion. I personally believe it's balanced and not a problem. I think people just want to run wild without consequences. There are consequences for your actions make wise decisions. If you are going to run in a straight line and be out in the wilderness well that is kind of dangerous. Limit your outside time as best you can. Have I been installed grabbed sure, it happens, made an error and was dead out in the open. Try ducking Into some cabins, do not run in one direction, make Jason work for it. 

This game comes at a learning curve but I am pretty confident as time passes players will be better and you will stand a better chance at surviving the night.

If he's grabs you and you aren't prepared well you kind of have it coming.

I don't think anyone should be saying any game or mechanic is perfectly balanced by launch.

I can see the "get good" arguments already.

The game is hard enough for counselors with this feature.  Altering it isn't going to significantly hurt the game to the point where it has to remain.

I think it's a big misconception to assume that any feature in which results in player death is immediately the undeniable fault of the player.  Punishment is fine for actions.  But the punishment for this is instant death.

I'll have to play myself and see but I don't think we should start this "get good" nonsense until we take a real good look at things.  The game just launched.

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11 minutes ago, ResolutionBlaze said:

I don't think anyone should be saying any game or mechanic is perfectly balanced by launch.

I can see the "get good" arguments already.

The game is hard enough for counselors with this feature.  Altering it isn't going to significantly hurt the game to the point where it has to remain.

I think it's a big misconception to assume that any feature in which results in player death is immediately the undeniable fault of the player.  Punishment is fine for actions.  But the punishment for this is instant death.

I'll have to play myself and see but I don't think we should start this "get good" nonsense until we take a real good look at things.  The game just launched.

I mean in this situation get good, while he isn't literally saying that, is an appropriate response. Most people don't know how to counterplay Jason as the councilors and maybe it will become easier to avoid his grabs once we know more about the game. 

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Are people forgetting that eventually the counselors will be able to get perks that will enable to loosen Jason's grip and who knows what else. If they eliminate Jason from being OP, the game would change and no one would give af about Jason chasing them. For fucks sake, did people cry like this about the alien in Alien Resurrection game?

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3 minutes ago, ConGamePro said:

Are people forgetting that eventually the counselors will be able to get perks that will enable to loosen Jason's grip and who knows what else. If they eliminate Jason from being OP, the game would change and no one would give af about Jason chasing them. For fucks sake, did people cry like this about the alien in Alien Resurrection game?

Nobodies crying we're just talking about the game, no reason to get upset.. If the staff thinks there's more counterplay we can learn to take advantage of then I'm willing to accept that and say try to learn it before anything needs to be changed.

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11 minutes ago, bocchiere said:

Nobodies crying we're just talking about the game, no reason to get upset.. If the staff thinks there's more counterplay we can learn to take advantage of then I'm willing to accept that and say try to learn it before anything needs to be changed.

You aren't crying but others are being babies for sure. Then again a lot of young kids playing this that have no concept of who Jason really is and just want to run around and then expect not to die once caught. The game is staying true to the films and that is how it should be. 

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the grab is fine, dont mess with it.   there's already a fair chance to hit jason with weapon and lots of different ways to interrupt the grab before and after they grab someone.

nerfing the grab can cause a major dumbed down experience, the fear factor would drop like a brick, and matches would be more casual routine instead of intense.

just dont get caught, try not to be found, dont go alone, share pocket knife if you have extra, use sprint effectively, the enviornment, try not to be alone for long, and others ways to avoid being finished off.

the game already provides a lot of advantages for we counselors, and it wouldn't be horror if some luck wasn't involved besides strategy and skills.

we had Jason that would even rage quit because they couldn't catch and kill anybody.

nerfing the grab would be a bad thing.  its still possible for even a weak counselor to break out of the grab, if say, for example, Jason decided to try to move to a enviornment kill.

its situational, but the balance is looking fine. 

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11 minutes ago, Krystal said:

the grab is fine, dont mess with it.   there's already a fair chance to hit jason with weapon and lots of different ways to interrupt the grab before and after they grab someone.

nerfing the grab can cause a major dumbed down experience, the fear factor would drop like a brick, and matches would be more casual routine instead of intense.

just dont get caught, try not to be found, dont go alone, share pocket knife if you have extra, use sprint effectively, the enviornment, try not to be alone for long, and others ways to avoid being finished off.

the game already provides a lot of advantages for we counselors, and it wouldn't be horror if some luck wasn't involved besides strategy and skills.

we had Jason that would even rage quit because they couldn't catch and kill anybody.

nerfing the grab would be a bad thing.  its still possible for even a weak counselor to break out of the grab, if say, for example, Jason decided to try to move to a enviornment kill.

its situational, but the balance is looking fine. 

That's why I wanted it to be a minor nerf. Like I detailed above the only time the councilor comes out ahead is if he wins the QTE, If Jason wins he dies, if it's a tie the councilor takes damage, I think is what I'd do. So it's just you have more of a fighting chance is the point, not making the grab ineffective. 

Like I said though I agree that the game just came out and the fact that we might not know how to play around it is a fair point. 

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12 minutes ago, Krystal said:

the grab is fine, dont mess with it.   there's already a fair chance to hit jason with weapon and lots of different ways to interrupt the grab before and after they grab someone.

nerfing the grab can cause a major dumbed down experience, the fear factor would drop like a brick, and matches would be more casual routine instead of intense.

just dont get caught, try not to be found, dont go alone, share pocket knife if you have extra, use sprint effectively, the enviornment, try not to be alone for long, and others ways to avoid being finished off.

the game already provides a lot of advantages for we counselors, and it wouldn't be horror if some luck wasn't involved besides strategy and skills.

we had Jason that would even rage quit because they couldn't catch and kill anybody.

nerfing the grab would be a bad thing.  its still possible for even a weak counselor to break out of the grab, if say, for example, Jason decided to try to move to a enviornment kill.

its situational, but the balance is looking fine. 

And that's my whole point too. Why would you want to lower Jason's ability to be........Jason? It doesn't even make any sense. People really need to go watch the original films. 

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1 minute ago, ConGamePro said:

And that's my whole point too. Why would you want to lower Jason's ability to be........Jason? It doesn't even make any sense. People really need to go watch the original films. 

Well balance is still important. It was marketed as a multiplayer video game not a movie simulator. I totally agree Jason should be strong and I've seen the entire series of films. I guess my point is we should not just dismiss all concerns regarding balance out of hand. 

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I think you should have a better chance to escape, but at the same time I think nerfing it would kill the experience. It's a difficult thing to juggle. I'm not a fan of the QTE idea, but I'm sure with enough imagination and testing, something can be figured out.

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