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Killer vs. Killer and Jason + Pamela vs. Counselors Game Mode Ideas

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Now, I have posted this idea in another topic before, but I believe it's interesting enough to deserve it's own. So my idea is a game mode where in addition to Jason stalking the counselors, Roy Burns would be present as well. Since the standard gameplay idea is 7v1, it would work pretty much the same, except it would be 7v1v1; Jason and Roy would be killing the counselors, but also working against each other.

 

Roy isn't the real Jason, of course; so he'd be weaker. But we already know that he's enough to pose a threat. Maybe he'd have the ability to run, as well, and lack Jason's ability to teleport (or morph, rather). He'd be easier to bring down than the real Jason, too, and anyone who succeeds in killing him, whether it be Jason or one of the counselors, gets a bonus reward at the end of the match (an exp. bonus, if that's how the game will work).

 

Another possible idea would work if we reach the stretch goal to add Mrs. Voorhees to the game: Jason and his mother vs. the counselors. Of course Mrs. Voorhees poses a threat, but she'd play differently than Jason as well. Maybe in addition to them being able to hunt down counselors separately, they could work together in planning kills.

 

Obviously, Pamela was dead while Jason was the killer, but I think it would be an interesting concept. What do you guys think about these ideas?

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     If the game is balanced so that the 7 counselors vs Jason is a good match would adding another killer completely destroy that balance ? I know lots of people here have talked about adding more than one Jason and or Pamela , but if there are 2 killers what is the incentive of being a counselor ?

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     If the game is balanced so that the 7 counselors vs Jason is a good match would adding another killer completely destroy that balance ? I know lots of people here have talked about adding more than one Jason and or Pamela , but if there are 2 killers what is the incentive of being a counselor ?

That's true, the idea of having 2 killers to worry about would make it harder on the counselors. I suppose it would add a challenge for hardcore players. Perhaps as an incentive, though, if a counselor survives, they get twice the experience or something. But if it does upset the gameplay balance, maybe they could add a few more counselors, like 10 or so instead of just 7. I really don't know anything about the gameplay's balance.

Still though, regarding Roy, I think it could still work since Jason would be out to get him, too. On the subject of Jason and Pamela working together, it would just serve as like a "Very Hard" difficulty. But if it would work out better to add more counselors to the match, then that could hopefully be done.

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Obviously, Pamela was dead while Jason was the killer, but I think it would be an interesting concept. What do you guys think about these ideas?

 

Jason was dead during the time Roy Burns was the killer as well. He didn't get resurrected into zombie Jason until the next movie when Tommy electrocutes his corpse.

 

The idea is a good one, but it mostly depends on how the developers make Jason play. If he's as powerful and difficult to kill as they make it sound, adding a second threat to fight off might be too difficult for the counselors to ever defeat, especially if the killers work strategically together using party chat. I could see it working though as long as they weaken both killers or give the counselors some stats boosts to make it reasonably balanced.

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3 killers versus 3 counselors. call it camp blood mode. for hardcore experienced players.

I can't even begin to understand how that would work. I mean, that's practically cheating. Three counselors don't stand a chance against 3 killers.

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Jason was dead during the time Roy Burns was the killer as well. He didn't get resurrected into zombie Jason until the next movie when Tommy electrocutes his corpse.

 

The idea is a good one, but it mostly depends on how the developers make Jason play. If he's as powerful and difficult to kill as they make it sound, adding a second threat to fight off might be too difficult for the counselors to ever defeat, especially if the killers work strategically together using party chat. I could see it working though as long as they weaken both killers or give the counselors some stats boosts to make it reasonably balanced.

Yes, of course Jason was dead at that time. I know my history, I guess I should've mentioned that, though.

Anyway, to balance out the factor of 2 killers, they could add more counselors to the match. Like maybe 10 instead of seven. Of course Pamela will obviously be weaker than Jason, but we don't know how differently she would play than him. The point of the suggestion is that it would add a change of pace for people who want a bigger challenge.

And as for Roy, I think it would balance it out enough that Jason would be trying to kill him, too. If not, then maybe adding a few more counselors to the team would help. Maybe.

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I can't even begin to understand how that would work. I mean, that's practically cheating. Three counselors don't stand a chance against 3 killers.

Uhhh. your the one who posted this thread! Like wiggum said, how do expect to fend off a human psycho with an unstoppable undead one too then??? why not go all the way and throw in another one? Logic.

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Uhhh. your the one who posted this thread! Like wiggum said, how do expect to fend off a human psycho with an unstoppable undead one too then??? why not go all the way and throw in another one? Logic.

I didn't say anything about 3 killers versus just 3 counselors. In that situation, they wouldn't even have a chance. In the standard 7v1, it's pretty much fair game since Jason will be looking for anyone. Adding another killer to the mix provides more of a challenge, but reducing the counselors' states to just 3 people? How are they supposed to win, then? The killer already has a decided advantage over the counselors, that's why the counselors have so many people on their team to balance it out. What you outlined would make it completely impossible for the counselors to win.

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How was one person, let alone a supposed weaker woman, survive one on one against Jason, multiple times/multiple women in the films then? it happened... do you  not have faith in your own gameplay skills to be successful in that hardcore campaign? then stick to the normal 7v1 mode then. That's why I suggested it was a hardcore expert mode. I'm sure if they went as far as putting it in the game, they would find a way to make it logistical and even out. even if they went as far as to put in more traps or ways to escape or more weapons. anything. they could even add the ability to call in swat for that scenario, its all about ideas here.

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How was one person, let alone a supposed weaker woman, survive one on one against Jason, multiple times/multiple women in the films then? it happened... do you  not have faith in your own gameplay skills to be successful in that hardcore campaign? then stick to the normal 7v1 mode then. That's why I suggested it was a hardcore expert mode. I'm sure if they went as far as putting it in the game, they would find a way to make it logistical and even out. even if they went as far as to put in more traps or ways to escape or more weapons. anything. they could even add the ability to call in swat for that scenario, its all about ideas here.

This isn't the films, this is a game. One person is not equivalent to Jason, that's why they have 7 counselors in a match to begin with. If we are going to bring the movies into this, then Jason could just have easily gone after the would-be Final Girl/Guy first and killed them. The reason the Final Girl/Guy in each movie survived is because they figured out what was going on and adapted. You think they really would have survived if Jason had chosen to go straight to them first? The answer is no, they wouldn't have.

Back to the game; three killers versus three counselors, one killer goes after one counselor each, they find them and kill them, and the match is over in a minute. THAT is logic.

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one person is not equivalent to Jason? yet tommy owned him twice? and this game is based on the films mostly. "if we are going to bring the movies into this?" L M M F A O. Jason doesn't ever know who the final will be. they SURVIVE. your logic is full of holes friend.

 

 "The reason the Final Girl/Guy in each movie survived is because they figured out what was going on and adapted.

 

same thing for the games. figure out whats going on and a way to adapt. no different. I swear sometimes i think im talking to a bunch of 13 year olds on this board.

I'll say it again: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A GAME HERE. It's DIFFERENT than the movies. Game logic is different from movie logic. Just because you're the last one alive doesn't guarantee that you will live. Movies choose who lives and who dies, you know almost at the start who the survivor will be. That won't apply to the game. Anyone can live or die, depending on how they play. And just because you're aware of Jason's presence in the game doesn't mean that you'll survive. It will be DIFFERENT from the movies. Jason can kill everyone, or everyone can escape. And if Tommy Jarvis makes it into the game as a playable counselor, there's no guarantee that whoever picks him will survive either.

 

Of course Jason doesn't know who the 'Final Girl/Guy' is. My point is that he could just as easily killed the would-be girl or guy first, and then it would have been someone else or no one at all. Where is the fallacy in that logic? Jason could have gone after Tommy and his family before all the teenagers, before Tommy and his family were fully aware of his presence, and he could have killed them. Tommy and Trish survived because they caught onto Jason and they adapted accordingly. Why does everyone else in the movies die? Because they're not paying attention and they don't notice there's a killer walking around. The Final Girl/Guy survives because they NOTICE the killer. Tommy survived in the 4th movie because Jason didn't kill him first; he survived in part 6 because he was older and had spent years studying Jason, but even then he barely lived.

 

I ask again, WHERE is the fallacy in this logic? Don't just say I'm wrong, give me a valid argument. And don't just back out of it before I turn over my end of it. You hear what I have to say.

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^ I hear what you have to say. I disagree. I don't have to give you an argument that you think is valid, or even a response. You think your way and I think mine. Sorry to pop into your thread, I back out before you responded because no matter what you say, it aint worth it to me. i let you have your side on it. Do you. This is not even worth debating about to me. I must be a problem, cause I find myself at odds on alot of threads.

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Yes, of course Jason was dead at that time. I know my history, I guess I should've mentioned that, though.

Anyway, to balance out the factor of 2 killers, they could add more counselors to the match. Like maybe 10 instead of seven. Of course Pamela will obviously be weaker than Jason, but we don't know how differently she would play than him. The point of the suggestion is that it would add a change of pace for people who want a bigger challenge.

And as for Roy, I think it would balance it out enough that Jason would be trying to kill him, too. If not, then maybe adding a few more counselors to the team would help. Maybe.

If you just add more players to both sides it's not really a solution to the balance problem. I mean, by that logic why not have a 20 counselor vs 5 killers mode? Or a 50 counselor vs 10 killer mode? More importantly, the map size dictates the amount of players that can play on the map without ruining the gameplay. That's why Halo doesn't do big team battles on small maps like Ivory Tower or Ascension. That more people you add to a map, the harder it becomes to strategically use the map and put together a winning plan. Since it sounds like the devs are only planning one main Crystal Lake map with random organization, adding more players would only make the games more chaotic and disorganized. Plus they'd have to create more ways for counselors to escape the map so that the counselors have a fair chance at survival. If there was to be a 2 killer mode, there would have to be some actual rebalancing ideas beyond just adding more counselors, like giving the counselors more available weapons to defend themselves with, or more stamina to run further as an example. Your idea has potential, it just needs more thought and planning. 

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^ I hear what you have to say. I disagree. I don't have to give you an argument that you think is valid, or even a response. You think your way and I think mine. Sorry to pop into your thread, I back out before you responded because no matter what you say, it aint worth it to me. i let you have your side on it. Do you. This is not even worth debating about to me. I must be a problem, cause I find myself at odds on alot of threads.

If I had to guess, I'd say your problem is that you're not thinking by game logic. You're still sticking to movie logic. I'll take it back down a bit. The whole point of this game is asymmetrical multiplayer; 7 counselors versus Jason. The reason there are so many counselors in a match is because Jason is too powerful to fight. That's why the game encourages you to escape rather than fight him. That brings me back to the point you suggested: 3 counselors have no chance against 3 killers. Not in terms of game logic.

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 I must be a problem, cause I find myself at odds on alot of threads.

I don't think that's the case. Lots of people seem to have your opinion on most topics. You just take strong stances on things that are going to encourage discussion and debate. It's not a bad thing, and honestly keeps the forums engaging and worth revisiting. I look forward to what you have to say on here. You're one of the better ones for volleying ideas and opinions back and forth with. 

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If you just add more players to both sides it's not really a solution to the balance problem. I mean, by that logic why not have a 20 counselor vs 5 killers mode? Or a 50 counselor vs 10 killer mode? More importantly, the map size dictates the amount of players that can play on the map without ruining the gameplay. That's why Halo doesn't do big team battles on small maps like Ivory Tower or Ascension. That more people you add to a map, the harder it becomes to strategically use the map and put together a winning plan. Since it sounds like the devs are only planning one main Crystal Lake map with random organization, adding more players would only make the games more chaotic and disorganized. Plus they'd have to create more ways for counselors to escape the map so that the counselors have a fair chance at survival. If there was to be a 2 killer mode, there would have to be some actual rebalancing ideas beyond just adding more counselors, like giving the counselors more available weapons to defend themselves with, or more stamina to run further as an example. Your idea has potential, it just needs more thought and planning. 

Fair enough, I really don't know how the whole thing works with balancing the teams. I don't know all the little details that could make or break the game. I mean, what you say almost ruins the idea for me. But would it really upset the balance that much by adding another killer to the team? I mean, say there were certain limitations, like Jason had to stay within a certain distance of Pam or his stats would decrease, but it would also make them easier to notice by the counselors. Something like that. How would that affect it? Or say you do add more weapons to the map, would they be only usable by the counselors? I mean, if there are more weapons, then couldn't Jason or Pam just pick them up, too? And if Mrs. Voorhees does indeed make it into the game, I imagine she'd be much easier to kill than Jason.

 

As for the subject of Killer vs. Killer, I understand it's a pretty similar argument, but wouldn't it balance it out by the fact that Roy and Jason would be against each other as well as the counselors? I mean, if the person playing Roy decided to go after Jason, he could attack him and do higher damage than the counselors would. It would also provide a distraction for the counselors so that they could work on escaping without having to worry about Jason for a moment.

 

The whole point is to make it a harder game mode than normal play. Would it really go so far as to break the game?

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I'm just passionate about F13 and horror in general and want the best this time around. But like I stated on another thread, Im going to start taking more of the high road in responding when I see the opinion sides turning left. I just don't have the energy or time for that.

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Fair enough, I really don't know how the whole thing works with balancing the teams. I don't know all the little details that could make or break the game. I mean, what you say almost ruins the idea for me. But would it really upset the balance that much by adding another killer to the team? I mean, say there were certain limitations, like Jason had to stay within a certain distance of Pam or his stats would decrease, but it would also make them easier to notice by the counselors. Something like that. How would that affect it? Or say you do add more weapons to the map, would they be only usable by the counselors? I mean, if there are more weapons, then couldn't Jason or Pam just pick them up, too? And if Mrs. Voorhees does indeed make it into the game, I imagine she'd be much easier to kill than Jason.

 

As for the subject of Killer vs. Killer, I understand it's a pretty similar argument, but wouldn't it balance it out by the fact that Roy and Jason would be against each other as well as the counselors? I mean, if the person playing Roy decided to go after Jason, he could attack him and do higher damage than the counselors would. It would also provide a distraction for the counselors so that they could work on escaping without having to worry about Jason for a moment.

 

The whole point is to make it a harder game mode than normal play. Would it really go so far as to break the game?

Most of the questions you asked of whether it would break the game or not are almost impossible to answer without having played the game. The haven't said if the weapons the counselors use for self defense are also usable as attack weapons for Jason. The making Jason easier to notice idea I'm not sure I understand. Like if Jason wasn't near Pamela his position would be highlighted to the counselors? Cause that seems like questionable design idea. Almost a deus ex machina but for game design rather than ending a story.

 

I can't say specifically what would make the game balanced in a two killer scenario, cause I've yet to even play the normal game. I can say though that if the whole goal is to make it more difficult to survive, there's a lot more creative ways to do it than just throwing a second killer into the map to accomplish that goal. I would think that if they wanted to make a hardcore mode, they would just remove all forms of escape from the map and FORCE the counselors to micro-manage their defensive weapons and really use their stealth skills in order to survive throughout the night. If they're not careful, they could find themselves without any weapons with several minutes left in the match. That would be equally as hardcore and barely need any changes to the gameplay at all. 

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     Well , when we hit the bots marker , it might be easy to do a Killer contest mode where you pick a skin , whether it be Roy , Jason or Pamela and the first one to kill 4 bot counselors wins . Now that would be a fun split screen game . Good ideas coming out of this thread. 

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