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As it stands right now Jason's grab kills give the player no incentive to use environmental kills due to its short activation time. It can be triggered almost instantly after grabbing even before a counselor who is next to Jason and constantly swinging their weapon can even react before his killing animation begins. I think it would greatly balance the kill if it just added a short 3-5 second timer to it before it was allowed to be used in order to prevent the instant grab death. 

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I completely agree. The non-environmental executions are just way too quick sometimes to allow anyone else to save you if you're caught. It makes sense to make it difficult for the player to break free, but I think it's cheap that other counselors don't have time to save someone who's grabbed RIGHT beside them. I've died right beside two other people who were armed with melee weapons because of how stupid quick it is to do an execution for Jason.

I get that the environmental kills can be instant if they're near-by, but the non-context executions shouldn't be.

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I agree 100%, I feel like they should take this post into consideration to give the counselors a bit more of a fighting chance. 

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I'm of the same opinion. It feels bad to be on both sides of it. If you're a counselor and get weapon/grab executed before someone right next to Jason can finish their swing after getting in range him it conveys a lot of salt about how quick it is. On the other hand, Jason is much less incentivized to go for the awesome environmental kills I'm sure we'd all love to see more of. I hope this thread gets some attention and it picks up, this is one of the only real issues I've had so far besides bugs that are already getting worked out.

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I agree as well. It is really annoying how every Jason ever always uses that stupid choke animation cause its the first and instant animation they get to use. They should be forced to think about where they are grabbing some one and how they are going to kill them instead of charging into a massive crowd of people, grabbing some one and instantly killing them with little to no care or risk of some one being able to save the person Jason grabbed. I understand Jason is suppose to be powerful and all that but its stupid that every noob Jason player just spams choke animation instead of using the cool environment kills.

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A way to do it would be to enlarge the XP pool for environmental kills.

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47 minutes ago, Risinggrave said:

A way to do it would be to enlarge the XP pool for environmental kills.

How will that prevent instant grab killers who don't care about XP though? Especially during end game when they have everything unlocked level wise.

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5 hours ago, Fatalfox said:

How will that prevent instant grab killers who don't care about XP though? Especially during end game when they have everything unlocked level wise.

It wouldn't. However I'm also of the belief that the grab kills are not an issue. It feels like to me that if somebody wants to simply "win" they will just slash you down instead of grabbing you at all. 

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I completely agree with adding a small delay.
When playing Jason, I even wait a little bit to kill to give others a fair chance to beat him free.

And to whoever says that Jason can then just slash you down, well, you can have weapons, dodge and block, so you can actually fight him.

But neither will work well unless you are working together with other survivors.

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13 minutes ago, Ryve said:

I completely agree with adding a small delay.
When playing Jason, I even wait a little bit to kill to give others a fair chance to beat him free.

And to whoever says that Jason can then just slash you down, well, you can have weapons, dodge and block, so you can actually fight him.

But neither will work well unless you are working together with other survivors.

Quoting me allows me to see you responded to me. 

I've been in a group or two who wanted to try that whole stick together and beat up Jason thing. It seems that Jason ends up winning those fights. Sure he gets stunned every so often. The counselors do too but they don't get back up. Oh wait, that's because they were dead. Silly me.

I can tell you as a guy who has been pocket knifed a few times by the same counselor, after the first I'm thinking I should just hack em. then I go nah, pocket knives are ok. Then after the second pocket knife? Yeah, fuck that guy. Axe poke! 

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Pocket knives stop the grab kill pretty easy. 

At the end of the day he caught you. I don't think you should always have the chance to break the grab.

Everyone is going to have a different play style as Jason. Whether they slash at you or grab you. 

I don't think there's a need for a change from the current mechanics. Being killed is part of the fun.

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At the end of the day, the break free mechanic is a joke. It's only there to stop him from getting scenery kills so it might as well not be there.
Either you have a pocket knife or you are not breaking free on your own.

The main reason I would want a small delay is to allow another counsellor to hit me with a weapon.
Currently the counsellor has to time it a bit too well in between me grabbing and killing the person.

Standing up to jason and fighting isn't a very good survival method, true enough, but moving around the map 2 by 2 can be very good and giving players the actual chance to save each other with weapons and then run will make melee weapons  more useful, because right now, I never care about counsellors having a weapon when I'm Jason.
High strength is a worthless stat if I never have to care about a player's melee attack, so why have these characters?

If they are 2 by 2 and I decide to axe murder them instead of grabbing, well that will give them an opportunity to use the block mechanic, something I've not seen used at all, ever.
And 2 by 2 they do stand a better chance to stun and run. If they took a hit, well first aid will have a more of a use, because right now it's only for jumping through windows and countering throwing knives.

 

I don't see any negative sides to slightly increasing the time between grabbing and killing.

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10 minutes ago, Ryve said:

At the end of the day, the break free mechanic is a joke. It's only there to stop him from getting scenery kills so it might as well not be there.
Either you have a pocket knife or you are not breaking free on your own.

The main reason I would want a small delay is to allow another counsellor to hit me with a weapon.
Currently the counsellor has to time it a bit too well in between me grabbing and killing the person.

Standing up to jason and fighting isn't a very good survival method, true enough, but moving around the map 2 by 2 can be very good and giving players the actual chance to save each other with weapons and then run will make melee weapons  more useful, because right now, I never care about counsellors having a weapon when I'm Jason.
High strength is a worthless stat if I never have to care about a player's melee attack, so why have these characters?

If they are 2 by 2 and I decide to axe murder them instead of grabbing, well that will give them an opportunity to use the block mechanic, something I've not seen used at all, ever.
And 2 by 2 they do stand a better chance to stun and run. If they took a hit, well first aid will have a more of a use, because right now it's only for jumping through windows and countering throwing knives.

 

I don't see any negative sides to slightly increasing the time between grabbing and killing.

Until there's a delay, and they start grouping in 3-4 people. You grab, and they knock the victim free. Then the incentive to grab at all disappears, and Jason just goes slash happy, making pocket knives useless.

I think it's a fine line that's tread right now.

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My Idea!

The executions should have a charge meter, max charge he can kill them.

Ways to slow down the charge speed, being caught indoors 20% slower charge and having other people near you. (1 person slows the speed by 10%,  1 additional person nearby slows it down by 5% each)

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21 minutes ago, Bloodwrought said:

Until there's a delay, and they start grouping in 3-4 people. You grab, and they knock the victim free. Then the incentive to grab at all disappears, and Jason just goes slash happy, making pocket knives useless.

I think it's a fine line that's tread right now.

Well, too many people will make it easy for them to hit each other, which is a danger of itself.

But you are right, the time cannot be too long, or it will be too easy. A fine line indeed.

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Well, I think the best option could be to make the timer until he can use grab kills way longer, but after a timer that is slightly longer than the current grab kill timer, he should grab the counselor in his hand with 2 hands, which should stop anyone from stunning him with melee weapons and instead just slow him down and prolongen the grab kill timer.

This would not only make environment executions more inviting, but also give the "Break free" mechanic a lot more meaning once Jason becomes unstunnable but still hittable.

 

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I really think the amount of time it takes should depend on the character grabbed and their stats. Characters with low composure should have less time to fight their way out. Characters with high strength should have an easier time mashing their way out, but the length of time is still dependent on their fear level. Vanessa, that preppy guy, Deborah and the fat guy with glasses should almost be insta-kills. Also, the time should decrease with successive grabs regardless of stats.

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32 minutes ago, Gunthaa said:

Well, I think the best option could be to make the timer until he can use grab kills way longer, but after a timer that is slightly longer than the current grab kill timer, he should grab the counselor in his hand with 2 hands, which should stop anyone from stunning him with melee weapons and instead just slow him down and prolongen the grab kill timer.

This would not only make environment executions more inviting, but also give the "Break free" mechanic a lot more meaning once Jason becomes unstunnable but still hittable.

 

I honestly no idea what you are on about. Grab kills can be done from the start, there is no timer.
They are always possible.

If we were to implement a timer, that would only make environment kills more inviting until the timer comes around. But still we wouldn't use them, because just hack and slash would be better. There aren't environment kills at every corner.

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1 hour ago, Ryve said:

At the end of the day, the break free mechanic is a joke. It's only there to stop him from getting scenery kills so it might as well not be there.
Either you have a pocket knife or you are not breaking free on your own.

The main reason I would want a small delay is to allow another counsellor to hit me with a weapon.
Currently the counsellor has to time it a bit too well in between me grabbing and killing the person.

Standing up to jason and fighting isn't a very good survival method, true enough, but moving around the map 2 by 2 can be very good and giving players the actual chance to save each other with weapons and then run will make melee weapons  more useful, because right now, I never care about counsellors having a weapon when I'm Jason.
High strength is a worthless stat if I never have to care about a player's melee attack, so why have these characters?

If they are 2 by 2 and I decide to axe murder them instead of grabbing, well that will give them an opportunity to use the block mechanic, something I've not seen used at all, ever.
And 2 by 2 they do stand a better chance to stun and run. If they took a hit, well first aid will have a more of a use, because right now it's only for jumping through windows and countering throwing knives.

 

I don't see any negative sides to slightly increasing the time between grabbing and killing.

Thank you! Yeah I completely agree that the main reason should be to allow another counsellor to hit Jason with a weapon. Its not to give us enough time to break free at all and besides they can't do it forever since weapons have durability even for the strongest and luckiest characters. Also yeah unless your doing the secret route to kill Jason 99% of the time your just trying to buy yourself a few seconds and constantly hitting Jason isnt going to make him useless or anything. I just hope this gets enough attention because even working as a team means nothing if Jason can just charge into a group of armed counselors and grab one not fearing if hes gonna get hit because he can just instantly start his kill animation. 

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2 hours ago, Bloodwrought said:

Pocket knives stop the grab kill pretty easy. 

At the end of the day he caught you. I don't think you should always have the chance to break the grab.

Everyone is going to have a different play style as Jason. Whether they slash at you or grab you. 

I don't think there's a need for a change from the current mechanics. Being killed is part of the fun.

I generally find if Jason grabs me when I am at full health I escape. It's only after he slashes me to soften me up or in the late game that I can't kick out. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Fatalfox said:

Thank you! Yeah I completely agree that the main reason should be to allow another counsellor to hit Jason with a weapon. Its not to give us enough time to break free at all and besides they can't do it forever since weapons have durability even for the strongest and luckiest characters. Also yeah unless your doing the secret route to kill Jason 99% of the time your just trying to buy yourself a few seconds and constantly hitting Jason isnt going to make him useless or anything. I just hope this gets enough attention because even working as a team means nothing if Jason can just charge into a group of armed counselors and grab one not fearing if hes gonna get hit because he can just instantly start his kill animation. 

Jason is meant to be a juggernaut, though. Jason shouldn't be afraid of counsellors.

When Jason shows up your first reaction should never be 'batter up, ugly!', it should be 'Oh shit! Run!'

Working as a team has tons of merit. You can fix things faster, have more shotguns and flare guns, and ultimately you're ensuring that some other poor bastard gets killed instead of you.:)

 

I suppose I don't see the issue. When I play as Jason I like to cycle through the different kills, instead of going for the cheap dirty ones.:)

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1 hour ago, Bloodwrought said:

Jason is meant to be a juggernaut, though. Jason shouldn't be afraid of counsellors.

When Jason shows up your first reaction should never be 'batter up, ugly!', it should be 'Oh shit! Run!'

Working as a team has tons of merit. You can fix things faster, have more shotguns and flare guns, and ultimately you're ensuring that some other poor bastard gets killed instead of you.:)

 

I suppose I don't see the issue. When I play as Jason I like to cycle through the different kills, instead of going for the cheap dirty ones.:)

Oh man I get hes supposed to be a juggernaut and im not saying we should fight him but don't you think its more of a gameplay mechanic issue instead of Jason being Jason that he can pick you up and 0.5 seconds later perform a uninterruptible kill animation even though theres people firing a shotgun, flare, and swinging a bat at him all at the same time the person was grabbed? Im totally fine with once the animation begins that it cant be stopped but the animation shouldn't be able to begin instantly in less then a second after he grabs you unless its a environmental kill.

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I agree, Jason's grab does need a delay so that others have a better chance of helping you out. I also believe the hand held weapons that can penetrate Jason such as the machete, fire poker, and axe shouldn't be dropped when a counselor is pickup but rather used like the pocket knife. For example, when Jason picks up a counselor with the fire poker, the counselor uses it to stab him in the eye and Jason then goes through and animation of taking it out of his eye and breaking it. Same for axe but a shot to the ribs and the machete a stab in the stomach. Just fruit for thought to help counselors break away from the OP grabs as well. 

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