Bad decisions lead to bad business.

[Skeezy4Twenty 8]

I haven't posted here since day 1 when these forums were created. I've been a backer since Day 2 of the kickstarter campaign. I never really felt the need to post about anything until today and when I read a few of these threads. I'm sure I am not reinventing the wheel here or saying anything that hasn't been said but I wanted to vent so here it goes.

 

For starters, I find it a little disrespectful that early access wasn't given to backers as well as "media/content providers" (not creators, they created nothing besides of video of them playing other peoples creations). How allowing KickStarter (or even SlackerBackers) to play early hurts the media or these streamers is beyond me. Why did we not get access at the same time? It was obviously possible as they have codes and have been playing non-stop streaming for over 24 hours now. EA Sports, which for the record I find to be one of the worst game companies in the world when it comes to dealing with fans/supporters, even has early access for players who purchase the EA Pass. I can play NHL or Madden or whatever EA game it is at the same time the "streamers" do as we are all given early access. It's a shame Gun Media doesn't do the same, and the backlash will probably be felt for a while (especially if they do another game in the future). 

 

Second, allowing your "special moment" that you wouldn't even speak about in the media (killing jason) to be available to the streamers who you had to know would go out of their way to find and publish for hits (again, these people are not into promoting THE game.. just THEMSELVES) is nothing but a slap in the face to the backers of this game. The fact stats wouldn't be wiped in one thing, but basically giving them the full version without that being locked out just ruined a large part of your game.A lot of the thrill for many was figuring this out themselves or trying to be the first (even if that sounds stupid). Gaming is competitive, and regardless of how Gun feels or wants to make it, it will stay competitive and as the game grows older it will just get worse. People make candy crush a competitive game, do you really think a slasher game is going to be just friends and rainbows? It wont. 

 

I do find it difficult to explain in words but my excitement for this game has diminished slightly over the last day plus. This entire month has had me on pins and needles to play this game and I couldn't wait. Now, with 8 million streams of the game and 10,000 clips of how to kill jason, how to escape, how to etc etc I find myself less excited and the game is less then 10 hours from launch. And I don't believe I am the only one who feels this way. From being a early Kick Starter backer who's been waiting a year for this to now I may not even go out of my way to play tonight in a matter of 24 hours because of very very poor decision making on the companies part is a huge leap backwards for this game and the company moving into the future. These decision will not only hurt now prior to launch and the anticipation, but overall in the future I will be less likely to purchase any DLC content.

 

The Backers, the people who without their money this game would not even have gotten off the ground, have been slapped in the face and told to like it. Don't be upset when they slap back by no longer supporting your product or games in the future. 

[Plox 71]

Personally, I see your point, but I don't really share the reaction to the points. First, nobody ever told me I was getting early access, and I got beta access, which was pretty nice. So I don't know why I should expect something I was never told I would receive. Second, if the early access people didn't kill Jason, it would have just happened by someone else immediately after launch. The effect is basically the same to me because I am not going to be the first one to kill Jason anyway. Either way the mystery is immediately spoiled (or solved, rather). Allowing people to stream the game early is normal business practice. You can avoid having things spoiled and retain your enthusiasm by not watching streams.

[piercev3 16]

Like you, I also haven't posted much on the forums. Haven't felt the need. I just read what the devs posted in anticipation of the game. I absorbed every bit of information, eager for more, leading up to today. That includes watching streamers play the game before launch, something I very much wanted to see, and reading about achievements and other spoilers (how to kill Jason). I did all of this with the full knowledge that I COULD be robbing myself of some of the experience of discovery by pursuing it, but I did it anyway. Were i feeling let down or disappointment that I knew, like a kid searching for his presents before Christmas morning and losing that element of surprise and excitement leading up to it, I would have no one to blame but myself.

 

I can't say anything about people feeling betrayed about streamers getting the game before the launch. A lot of the guys I have watched were helping play test the game. I considered it a reward but i do understand the feeling when some 19 year chick, who has barely mastered the English language, contrives a Jason is dead scenario for her stream, I am a little annoyed but it doesn't ruin the game for me.

 

Ultimately, any information I have gained from streams, forums, reddit etc about the game's content that I felt were "spoilers" could have all been avoided had I not sought it out. But I did and I have only myself to blame for that. As I sit here and type this, I am listening/watching a stream from one of my favorite twitch guys. I am still stoked for the game. I plan on playing it. A lot, but I will be honest with everyone. In my attempt to continue to fuel my excitement for the game by reading the forums, the only thing ruining my anticipation of the game is all the complaining going on because people are upset over not getting early access to the game. Sure, I would have liked early access. Guess what, i didn't get it. So i have 2 options.

1 - cry about it on the forums

2 - wait until the game is released to the public

 

I am going with option 2. You guys do what you want.

[Skeezy4Twenty 8]

I agree with both of your comments to an extent. Not every game company allows streamers early access for starters, lumping them in with media is dangerous as they simply put are not media in any kind of way. They are simply low-grade entertainers. 

I agree no where did it say when I backed the game I would get early access, however it didn't say "and if you stream content and have "xyz" amount of subscibers you will get early access" either. Usually beta-testers are not allowed to stream early content either, I've beta tested for games before, it was a keep on the downlow type deal. 

And finally, I had early access with the beta version but couldn't play it due to my computer speed. I'm not a huge computer guy, usually use my phone and I play on console. I also don't watch streams at all. But when you log onto Facebook or twitter or even this forum looking for info on when the game keys are being sent and see gifs of Jason being stabbed in the head by Tommy and dying, it's a little annoying. Do you think the developers of Halo would be happy if a day before launch I uploaded the ending sequence of the game?

Sorry if you feel I am "crying about things" but I just wanted to voice my concerns over what I felt was damaging the games anticipation for myself and others.

[Fatalfox 65]

I personally never understood why people got upset at press and streamers getting access first. The gaming industry has always been that way and you guys arent the first to do it. So really not sure why suddenly its a big deal to people when almost every gaming company has been doing it for years. You just don't hear about it but almost any famous gaming youtuber you can ever imagine has always had early access to a  game or beta and all gaming review companies and press companies revolving around the game have had access. In short this isn't anything new and im not sure why everyone is suddenly making a big deal about it, can't wait to play Wes and thanks for the amazing game! ^^

[piercev3 16]

5 minutes ago, Skeezy4Twenty said:

I agree with both of your comments to an extent. Not every game company allows streamers early access for starters, lumping them in with media is dangerous as they simply put are not media in any kind of way. They are simply low-grade entertainers. 

I agree no where did it say when I backed the game I would get early access, however it didn't say "and if you stream content and have "xyz" amount of subscibers you will get early access" either. Usually beta-testers are not allowed to stream early content either, I've beta tested for games before, it was a keep on the downlow type deal. 

And finally, I had early access with the beta version but couldn't play it due to my computer speed. I'm not a huge computer guy, usually use my phone and I play on console. I also don't watch streams at all. But when you log onto Facebook or twitter or even this forum looking for info on when the game keys are being sent and see gifs of Jason being stabbed in the head by Tommy and dying, it's a little annoying. Do you think the developers of Halo would be happy if a day before launch I uploaded the ending sequence of the game?

Sorry if you feel I am "crying about things" but I just wanted to voice my concerns over what I felt was damaging the games anticipation for myself and others.

Again... no one forced you to watch streams and see the end game. Only one person made that decision and it wasn't Gun Media

[Ban_All_Music 369]

7 minutes ago, Skeezy4Twenty said:

And finally, I had early access with the beta version but couldn't play it due to my computer speed. I'm not a huge computer guy, usually use my phone and I play on console. I also don't watch streams at all. But when you log onto Facebook or twitter or even this forum looking for info on when the game keys are being sent and see gifs of Jason being stabbed in the head by Tommy and dying, it's a little annoying. Do you think the developers of Halo would be happy if a day before launch I uploaded the ending sequence of the game?

Sorry if you feel I am "crying about things" but I just wanted to voice my concerns over what I felt was damaging the games anticipation for myself and others.

 

1 minute ago, piercev3 said:

Again... no one forced you to watch streams and see the end game. Only one person made that decision and it wasn't Gun Media

Read full post before posting, @piercev3

[WilllDOC 13]

Is it insulting to say "Frist world problems " to everybody bitching about this game? Can't wait until this game come out, so people can stop bitching about this game. I feel sorry for Devs who have put up this crap. Thank You, Gun Media and  IllFonic for bringing this game out and being nothing but transparent with the game development.  

[piercev3 16]

Just now, Ban_All_Music said:

 

Read full post before posting, @piercev3

generally do

[Fatalfox 65]

1 minute ago, WilllDOC said:

Is it insulting to say "Frist world problems " to everybody bitching about this game? Can't wait until this game come out, so people can stop bitching about this game. I feel sorry for Devs who have put up this crap. Thank You, Gun Media and  IllFonic for bringing this game out and being nothing but transparent with the game development.  

Thank you!

[Ban_All_Music 369]

Just now, piercev3 said:

generally do

Then you know he said he didn't watch the streams and continued to post that he shouldn't have watched the streams. 

[piercev3 16]

1 minute ago, Ban_All_Music said:

Then you know he said he didn't watch the streams and continued to post that he shouldn't have watched the streams. 

and YOU would know that by saying what I said, I was responding to his line about, " Do you think the developers of Halo would be happy if a day before launch I uploaded the ending sequence of the game?" to which i responded the way I did. Don't want spoilers, dont seek out content. Basic message.

 

Context clues are hard

 

[Ban_All_Music 369]

Just now, piercev3 said:

Context clues are hard

 

We don't do this here. This isn't Reddit. 

[piercev3 16]

Just now, Ban_All_Music said:

We don't do this here. This isn't Reddit. 

I didn't quote your post to start

[Skeezy4Twenty 8]

33 minutes ago, Fatalfox said:

I personally never understood why people got upset at press and streamers getting access first. The gaming industry has always been that way and you guys arent the first to do it. So really not sure why suddenly its a big deal to people when almost every gaming company has been doing it for years. You just don't hear about it but almost any famous gaming youtuber you can ever imagine has always had early access to a  game or beta and all gaming review companies and press companies revolving around the game have had access. In short this isn't anything new and im not sure why everyone is suddenly making a big deal about it, can't wait to play Wes and thanks for the amazing game! ^^

No one has ever gotten mad at "media" getting the game early, ever. However, streamers, who in MANY cases CHARGE MONEY from the game creators to "review and play" their game will always drive people nuts. Not just with this game either. Also, if a game depends on backers to be made in the first place, usually you treat those people well because without them the game wouldn't exist. These "influencers" also can detract from the game by posting things, such as Jason death, can ruin the experience of playing the game. 

 

If you sought out the videos or watched the streams then of course that's your fault as well. But when you can't make a simple search of "Friday the 13th game game key release" without seeing gifs or posts about how they killed Jason... that's called spoiling a important part of the game you didn't want spoiled ONLY because Gun made a poor decision.

 

22 minutes ago, piercev3 said:

and YOU would know that by saying what I said, I was responding to his line about, " Do you think the developers of Halo would be happy if a day before launch I uploaded the ending sequence of the game?" to which i responded the way I did. Don't want spoilers, dont seek out content. Basic message.

 

Context clues are hard

 

You must have a hard time comprehending sir, so I'll explain it again clearer for you... I went on facebook and I searched for info of when the game keys were being sent to XBox One users. In that search result was a gif of Jason being killed by Tommy with a machete to the head. I did not want to see it, did not seek it out, and have not since tried to seek out exactly how it was all done. 

[Ralph Wiggum777 425]

20 minutes ago, Skeezy4Twenty said:

And finally, I had early access with the beta version but couldn't play it due to my computer speed. I'm not a huge computer guy, usually use my phone and I play on console.

So all this is moot then cause you wouldn't have had early access anyways. Only PC people got it.... 

[piercev3 16]

18 minutes ago, Skeezy4Twenty said:

No one has ever gotten mad at "media" getting the game early, ever. However, streamers, who in MANY cases CHARGE MONEY from the game creators to "review and play" their game will always drive people nuts. Not just with this game either. Also, if a game depends on backers to be made in the first place, usually you treat those people well because without them the game wouldn't exist. These "influencers" also can detract from the game by posting things, such as Jason death, can ruin the experience of playing the game. 

 

If you sought out the videos or watched the streams then of course that's your fault as well. But when you can't make a simple search of "Friday the 13th game game key release" without seeing gifs or posts about how they killed Jason... that's called spoiling a important part of the game you didn't want spoiled ONLY because Gun made a poor decision.

Debatable on bad decision. I don't agree but there are enough valid counter arguments to the contrary preventing me to Definitively say it WAST a poor decision. However, the group of friends I am playing with are staying away from forums and youtube until after the release to avoid stuff like that. There is a way around it. Ultimately, you can agree or disagree with the decision to give folks early access but spoilers are only spoiled when you seek out info. Let us review why folks are upset...

 

1 - streamers got the game earlier than they did

2 - players who didn't get early access to the game didn't get to kill Jason first

3 - The method of killing him was spoiled.

 

Points 1 and 2 are entitlement issues and 3 is a self inflicted wound.

 

15 minutes ago, Skeezy4Twenty said:

You must have a hard time comprehending sir, so I'll explain it again clearer for you... I went on facebook and I searched for info of when the game keys were being sent to XBox One users. In that search result was a gif of Jason being killed by Tommy with a machete to the head. I did not want to see it, did not seek it out, and have not since tried to seek out exactly how it was all done. 

I have no issues understanding anything. If you wanted to know about beta keys, all one had to do was go to Friday the 13th tweeter account or FB feed. Stuff happens. SIR. You are not entitled to a life without disappointment. Time to move on

[Sanetsuken 116]

Just now, piercev3 said:

Debatable on bad decision. I don't agree but there are enough valid counter arguments to the contrary preventing me to Definitively say it WAST a poor decision. However, the group of friends I am playing with are staying away from forums and youtube until after the release to avoid stuff like that. There is a way around it. Ultimately, you can agree or disagree with the decision to give folks early access but spoilers are only spoiled when you seek out info. Let us review why folks are upset...

 

1 - streamers got the game earlier than they did

2 - players who didn't get early access to the game didn't get to kill Jason first

3 - The method of killing him was spoiled.

 

Points 1 and 2 are entitlement issues and 3 is a self inflicted wound.

1 i can agree on. Streamers getting it early is whatever.

 

The rest however is what i have a problem with. It wasn't about "killing jason first" in the sense that everyone thought they could. After the devs themselves wanted the community to figure it out and play around with the game in order to find out, then give fans a slap in the face by basically going back on that and instead reworking "community" into "people who stream the game". That is a poor decision. It should never have been there before the game is officially out to give everyone equal standing. It was part of the excitement, and 99% of the players weren't even able to participate in that. Wether you like it or not, anyone that identifies as a gamer or whatever label you prefer are highly competitive in a multitude of ways.

as for your third point, i would PARTLY agree that it's self inflicted. HOWEVER you seem to dismiss the fact that the internet doesn't hide things FOR YOU. It has no reason to be able to do so. If i go on a forum just discussing the game and some poster decides to randomly post in a non-related topic that it has been achieved and how it was done, that is not self inflicted. You can say "well just stop reading" but it's not that easy when your reading speed is naturally high. As an example. That's not a GIVEN but it's a reason to how you'd get spoiled. It's like when people spoiled the harry potter book or star wars movie and yelled it out loud in front of the cinema/bookstore. You COULD say "well just close your ears" but you have no way of reacting that fast without knowing it's coming.

You also cannot seriously say "well you should just avoid anything related to x then if you don't want to be spoiled". That is simply not fair, you can't work on the assumption that fans won't gather around discussion with the game. This board would be completely dead if that was the case.

The conclusion is this:

No, the devs don't harbor all the fault for the shit that's going on, but not everyone feels they did what they could to prevent "leaks" like this. And to have it done in such a way just feels shitty towards everyone that was excited about the prospect of finding out for themselves or even being the first one to do so, hell even being able to do so without previous knowledge and figuring it out for yourself. That's not a thing anymore.

[Skeezy4Twenty 8]

So you're saying I need to take multiple preventative measures to avoid any chance of it possibly being spoiled? I have to go out of my way to avoid certain sites, blogs, feeds, etc etc because THEY made a decision (that I disagree with) to do it this way? 

 

And you say I am entitled? What do you call the game creators at that point then?

 

People are mad at a lot of things, some topics are just "hotter" and more vocalized. I feel this entire launch and lead up as been a shit show personally. When was the last update on anything major as far as the release? It's 4 pm est, 8 hours from launch and do we have any concrete idea on when the game keys are going out?  How about the add-ons and skins? Also, I chose "physical copy" and last I heard was months ago being told it wouldn't be ready on day 1, that I'd get a "key" and the physical copy would be later.. when though? No estimated date? 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but so far IMO Gun has been and is very reactionary. They are never out in front of things (other then their kickstarter campaign, that was run quite well) and always seem to speak only when the proverbial shit has hit the fan. That doesn't leave a good taste in your mouth if you have business savvy.. 

[piercev3 16]

1 minute ago, Sanetsuken said:

1 i can agree on. Streamers getting it early is whatever.

 

The rest however is what i have a problem with. It wasn't about "killing jason first" in the sense that everyone thought they could. After the devs themselves wanted the community to figure it out and play around with the game in order to find out, then give fans a slap in the face by basically going back on that and instead reworking "community" into "people who stream the game". That is a poor decision. It should never have been there before the game is officially out to give everyone equal standing. It was part of the excitement, and 99% of the players weren't even able to participate in that. Wether you like it or not, anyone that identifies as a gamer or whatever label you prefer are highly competitive in a multitude of ways.

as for your third point, i would PARTLY agree that it's self inflicted. HOWEVER you seem to dismiss the fact that the internet doesn't hide things FOR YOU. It has no reason to be able to do so. If i go on a forum just discussing the game and some poster decides to randomly post in a non-related topic that it has been achieved and how it was done, that is not self inflicted. You can say "well just stop reading" but it's not that easy when your reading speed is naturally high. As an example. That's not a GIVEN but it's a reason to how you'd get spoiled. It's like when people spoiled the harry potter book or star wars movie and yelled it out loud in front of the cinema/bookstore. You COULD say "well just close your ears" but you have no way of reacting that fast without knowing it's coming.

You also cannot seriously say "well you should just avoid anything related to x then if you don't want to be spoiled". That is simply not fair, you can't work on the assumption that fans won't gather around discussion with the game. This board would be completely dead if that was the case.

The conclusion is this:

No, the devs don't harbor all the fault for the shit that's going on, but not everyone feels they did what they could to prevent "leaks" like this. And to have it done in such a way just feels shitty towards everyone that was excited about the prospect of finding out for themselves or even being the first one to do so, hell even being able to do so without previous knowledge and figuring it out for yourself. That's not a thing anymore.

I agree with a lot of what you said, not all. Again, you fall into the category of having valid counter arguments. However, I feel that the "slap in the face" comment is a little much. Though we can agree that there could have been better ways to handle the early access, I don't think it was in any way intended to thumb the nose at the player base that supported it. I think it was a decision made on the long term longevity that ALL F13 fans want for this game.

 

I also slightly disagree with the comparison to shouting out a Harry Potter or Star Wars spoiler vs. seeking information on the internet for the topic in question. I was in World of Warcraft when some jerk shouted, "Snape kills Dumbledore" in chat and I was in Everquest when some jerk said, "Darth Maul dies". Realize I am showing my age a bit with these comments.... still. I was in an unrelated area and blasted with information i wasn't seeking. Looking into information about the topic DOES open you up to potential spoilers.

 

Still, i get your point and appreciate the dialogue. Just hope people can agree to move past this and enjoy the game. Also feel that it would have been a better idea to hold back on the end game until official launch. It isn't a deal breaker for me but I can see the benefit from that action.

[anthonymorales 44]

Are you guys eglus h majors what's up with all the essays 

[piercev3 16]

5 minutes ago, Skeezy4Twenty said:

So you're saying I need to take multiple preventative measures to avoid any chance of it possibly being spoiled? I have to go out of my way to avoid certain sites, blogs, feeds, etc etc because THEY made a decision (that I disagree with) to do it this way? 

 

And you say I am entitled? What do you call the game creators at that point then?

 

People are mad at a lot of things, some topics are just "hotter" and more vocalized. I feel this entire launch and lead up as been a shit show personally. When was the last update on anything major as far as the release? It's 4 pm est, 8 hours from launch and do we have any concrete idea on when the game keys are going out?  How about the add-ons and skins? Also, I chose "physical copy" and last I heard was months ago being told it wouldn't be ready on day 1, that I'd get a "key" and the physical copy would be later.. when though? No estimated date? 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but so far IMO Gun has been and is very reactionary. They are never out in front of things (other then their kickstarter campaign, that was run quite well) and always seem to speak only when the proverbial shit has hit the fan. That doesn't leave a good taste in your mouth if you have business savvy.. 

In regards to your comment on Gun Media only responding when the stuff hits the fan. I will respond to that by saying this... social media is pretty toxic at times. Lots of people complain about silly silly things. What you view as reactionary is more likely a response to a concern that is shared by many and valid. If they responded to EVERY single comment made on FB, twitter, and the forums then yes, they would be nothing BUT reactionary and get nothing done.

[Ban_All_Music 369]

4 minutes ago, piercev3 said:

I agree with a lot of what you said, not all. Again, you fall into the category of having valid counter arguments. However, I feel that the "slap in the face" comment is a little much. Though we can agree that there could have been better ways to handle the early access, I don't think it was in any way intended to thumb the nose at the player base that supported it. I think it was a decision made on the long term longevity that ALL F13 fans want for this game.

 

I also slightly disagree with the comparison to shouting out a Harry Potter or Star Wars spoiler vs. seeking information on the internet for the topic in question. I was in World of Warcraft when some jerk shouted, "Snape kills Dumbledore" in chat and I was in Everquest when some jerk said, "Darth Maul dies". Realize I am showing my age a bit with these comments.... still. I was in an unrelated area and blasted with information i wasn't seeking. Looking into information about the topic DOES open you up to potential spoilers.

 

Still, i get your point and appreciate the dialogue. Just hope people can agree to move past this and enjoy the game. Also feel that it would have been a better idea to hold back on the end game until official launch. It isn't a deal breaker for me but I can see the benefit from that action.

I am out of likes, so I must quote and comment. Just wanted to say that I agree with you, sir. 

[Sanetsuken 116]

8 minutes ago, piercev3 said:

However, I feel that the "slap in the face" comment is a little much.

But it is a slap in the face. Not just because the event of killing jason was spoiled before the game is even out, but that it happened even before the majority of the playerbase got their hands on it. There's no even ground here. There were people that stuck around to figure it out ASAP just to be the first ones, which would be fine if everyone started on equal grounds. But it never happened. And agree or not, the fact is that the devs themselves hyped out the mystery behind being able to kill jason, and loosely quoted they DID say they wanted the community to figure it out as they played. Then instead did this. And it just turns out "the community" was nothing more than streamers. And streamers are seen. Chances are high i'll hear about it atleast 3 more times tonight before i go to bed, and that's from people who watched streamers. I can't STOP them from saying that.

8 minutes ago, piercev3 said:

I also slightly disagree with the comparison to shouting out a Harry Potter or Star Wars spoiler vs. seeking information on the internet for the topic in question

I made that comparison because i feel it fits well. Let me explain further. Who goes to midnight showings of harry potter? Harry potter fans. Who goes to star wars premieres? Star wars fans. And this goes on and on. The fans gather when there's an event. And as a continuance from that, fans gather to talk about a franchise. I play alot of videogames, i go to places where people talk about videogames. It's much more vague but the point is still the same. Now, if some person who's a fan of a game, series, movie, whatever but wants to be a douchebag? Nothing stops him from spoiling others. Nothing. Unless you literally have no communication online or even in person if you have a local crowd you just can't avoid it if someone wants to spoil you. And that is simply not a fair request to make just to not be spoiled.

And everquest triggers me to this day. One train to the zone and a whole day went down the drain. Jesus christ.

8 minutes ago, piercev3 said:

Still, i get your point and appreciate the dialogue. Just hope people can agree to move past this and enjoy the game. Also feel that it would have been a better idea to hold back on the end game until official launch.

I'm looking forward to the game, but despite what the devs thought was in the best interest of fans (and obviously themselves, but who can blame them for that), it just comes across as horribly mismanaged. I don't know shit about game dev, but would it be THAT hard to disable that particular feature? Just have the sweater not spawn. Or something else. For me personally it's about how it was rudely taken away from the fans that wanted to figure it out, but was denied because streamers are so much more important.

Adding to that it's an extra insult when you get the zealots running about calling those people "entitled" and should "stop whining and be happy it's even happening" like that would calm anyone down. It's the equivalent of saying "calm down, you're being irrational" to your significant other and expecting that to fix anything. It's naive at best and fixes nothing, it just comes across as disrespectful.

 

EDIT: i didn't quote all of it because i feel the selected lines got the meat of the argument. IF that is wrong, then feel free to let me know. I value open communication, and don't want you to think i'm cherrypicking.

[piercev3 16]

1 minute ago, Sanetsuken said:

But it is a slap in the face. Not just because the event of killing jason was spoiled before the game is even out, but that it happened even before the majority of the playerbase got their hands on it. There's no even ground here. There were people that stuck around to figure it out ASAP just to be the first ones, which would be fine if everyone started on equal grounds. But it never happened. And agree or not, the fact is that the devs themselves hyped out the mystery behind being able to kill jason, and loosely quoted they DID say they wanted the community to figure it out as they played. Then instead did this. And it just turns out "the community" was nothing more than streamers. And streamers are seen. Chances are high i'll hear about it atleast 3 more times tonight before i go to bed, and that's from people who watched streamers. I can't STOP them from saying that.

I made that comparison because i feel it fits well. Let me explain further. Who goes to midnight showings of harry potter? Harry potter fans. Who goes to star wars premieres? Star wars fans. And this goes on and on. The fans gather when there's an event. And as a continuance from that, fans gather to talk about a franchise. I play alot of videogames, i go to places where people talk about videogames. It's much more vague but the point is still the same. Now, if some person who's a fan of a game, series, movie, whatever but wants to be a douchebag? Nothing stops him from spoiling others. Nothing. Unless you literally have no communication online or even in person if you have a local crowd you just can't avoid it if someone wants to spoil you. And that is simply not a fair request to make just to not be spoiled.

And everquest triggers me to this day. One train to the zone and a whole day went down the drain. Jesus christ.

I'm looking forward to the game, but despite what the devs thought was in the best interest of fans (and obviously themselves, but who can blame them for that), it just comes across as horribly mismanaged. I don't know shit about game dev, but would it be THAT hard to disable that particular feature? Just have the sweater not spawn. Or something else. For me personally it's about how it was rudely taken away from the fans that wanted to figure it out, but was denied because streamers are so much more important.

Adding to that it's an extra insult when you get the zealots running about calling those people "entitled" and should "stop whining and be happy it's even happening" like that would calm anyone down. It's the equivalent of saying "calm down, you're being irrational" to your significant other and expecting that to fix anything. It's naive at best and fixes nothing, it just comes across as disrespectful.

Well, if the shoe fits