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Early Access to Press/Streamers

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1 minute ago, ShankerOne said:

Na they should be popping out near launch time unless something goes horribly wrong.

So today maybe?

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3 minutes ago, Sebcon said:

So today maybe?

I would expect to see them (barring that catastrophic event) somewhere between 1-3 hours from launch. Be my guestimation. That could completely be wrong, but that would be about when it would make sense. They've kept the Savini out of the streams so I expect those will go out as close to launch as possible. And the console codes they just got and are prepping, so I can see that being about the same time as well.

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It's not shady and it's totally acceptable to give press, streamers, and well known creators access to your game to help promote it before launch. This is how things have worked in gaming for a while now. Thanks for making us an awesome game. Can't wait to play. 

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13 minutes ago, ShankerOne said:

I would expect to see them (barring that catastrophic event) somewhere between 1-3 hours from launch. Be my guestimation. That could completely be wrong, but that would be about when it would make sense.

All this tells me is that there was no point in pre-ordering this game. 

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17 hours ago, Litheran said:

I will admit, it hurts to watch a 20 year old girl refer to Tommy as "Ben Jarvis" while playing the game I love, simply because boys like her assets. But I can't fault you as a businessman for being shrewd in your dealings.

She also said that she didn't like all the gore and could do without it hahahaha, I totally went off on this stupid girl who obviously never watched a Friday movie.

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17 hours ago, wes said:

Hey Campers,

We've noticed a lot of messages being sent our way about press and streamers getting early access to the game. Thought I would take a moment to talk with each of you here. I will do my best to try to explain/answer some of the questions and comments we have received so far.

We had an overwhelming request to allow for backers to pre-load the game. That's not a flip of the switch by any means. It took us 2 weeks to set everything up properly with Valve. Doing so kind of splits the game package (how steam handles executable of the game) into two different packages. They share the same backend for game saves, progress, etc. But on the back end of Steam, it splits it. Press package and Pre-load package. Next, we have to request keys; pre-load keys (the keys we sent to PC backers) and Press keys. The terms and conditions that we agree to as developers/publishers with Valve/Steam states that we can not "sell" press keys. (Same for Sony and MS by the way.) We were given a finite amount of press keys that point to the active game package. We were given a precise amount of pre-load keys to send to backers. This package does not and can not activate until the launch date. 

So why do press members, content creators and streamers get access to the press keys? Well, the press (like Gamespot, IGN, Polygon, etc) get access to press keys because they are press. But the world of video game journalism shifted BIG TIME over the last few years. Content creators on Youtube and streamers on Twitch, garner audiences that rival press outlets. So much so that every major press outlet, streams games on launch day. It's not a coincidence. The Press is playing catchup and trying to compete. 

Content creators and streamers create a direct avenue to new audiences. New audiences lead to potential new sales. New sales mean both full servers AND revenue to keep the servers going and new content (DLC) in the pipeline. I know this might be hard to see, but it's the truth. To developers and publishers; content creators and streamers are the new "Press". And the Press has gotten early access to games since the dawn of the video game industry. You could have a great game, but if no one knows about it, it doesn't last long. Servers close...content dries up...games die. Especially for small teams like ours. We don't have $300M in the bank to rely on if the game tanks. We can't really brush that off and say "welp, let's go make something else."

I know some of you are pissed at this. I can understand why you would be. You backed the game. You believed in the project and supported it since the start. And we did our damnest to use that money in smart ways to create the best F13 experience we could. I'm sorry if you're upset about this, but I'm doing what I think is best for the future of this title. It's not about showing favoritism to content creators/streamers. On the contrary; I'm trying use as many tools as I possibly can to keep you guys, the fans, happy.  I want full lobbies and I want to make cool ass DLC that I'm pretty sure everyone will love.

Some of you will still be upset, and I understand. All I can do is offer this explanation and my apologies. If you want to yell at me or call me a dick or shady, etc. That's fine. I'm here, listening. 

 -W

86 projects backed, 2 undelivered and probably will never be finished.  This is the only company I've been disappointed with. I get press release.  There's still several things you can answer then.  

Your Savini Skin and Counselor clothing are not Kickstarter exclusive because people could buy them outside of Kickstarter right?  So no longer exclusive to kickstarter..

You requested sets of keys 3 if I'm not mistaken and steam didn't want to do any more.  Read that somewhere.  So why wasn't backer's sets of keys just early access keys.  Can you not sell a limited amount of early access keys?

Was there no other way of getting the game into backers hands like say an independent launcher?

Could you not have pushed out an update asking for backers to submit a streamer application first?  Promote your game and promote your backer's streams?

You were planning to do a 1 day head start but ended up going 2 days because press was saying not enough time.  Yet on numerous games, reviews come out after the game is released.  It also seems majority of the keys went out to streamers which review the game basically on the spot.  Does 48 hours of promotion really make that much of a difference?  I mean really? Does it?  Was possibly pissing off lets just say 10% of your backers worth it in your minds eye?  For 48 hours that's it...

 

You guys will have delivered on mostly everything that was promised to backers so there's really no complaints here.  Just disappointment in your choices and wording.  Really nothing in your project ever screamed "eternal gratitude."  It also sucks when anyone, in charge of anything says all they can offer is an excuse and an apology.  Keep your appreciation it means zilch, at least to a handful people.  

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I personally never understood why people got upset at press and streamers getting access first. The gaming industry has always been that way and you guys arent the first to do it. So really not sure why suddenly its a big deal to people when almost every gaming company has been doing it for years. You just don't hear about it but almost any famous gaming youtuber you can ever imagine has always had early access to a  game or beta and all gaming review companies and press companies revolving around the game have had access. In short this isn't anything new and im not sure why everyone is suddenly making a big deal about it, can't wait to play Wes and thanks for the amazing game! ^^

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2 hours ago, DeejayKnight said:

Lirik did play F13 yesterday for hours. While that's major, the numbers speak for themselves that influencers between 33 & 3333 viewers account for close to half of game sales. 

Yes i know Lirik played yesterday as i watched him and crew play, my point was he could make a case that he (and others like him) could drive hype for any game. In regards to your data that is completely false, influencers on twitch do not have anywhere near that type of confirmed sales. 

Cheers.

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I completely understand giving out press releases and streamers. I want this game to survive (especially since i am a console player but i do plan on getting it on Steam eventually) What i don't like is how everything has been executed. From the small amount of streamers i seen its pretty clear these people were not backers, nor people who have any slight of interest in the game. So why were these people chosen, rather than people who did back the game? If anything my main concern about this in particular is that it seem like you favored those with loads of viewers, but didn't actually check how these people are. If i were in your position I would want streamers who actually care about the game, not just looking for a cheap paycheck. Because while you guys claim you guys aren't about favoritism this just screams it. Let alone the fact that according to some they also have the DLC as well, which is a slap in the face towards people who may have missed it. But since these are streamers they should be treated better than people who help support your game. It also didnt help when Wes was basically insulting people who were upset about this. Whether valid or not, in my eyes you should never insult people, especially when you knew the blacklash that would come from this! it just makes it seem very unprofessional!

My other concern was about the fact that in your eyes, while there isnt any real advantage from these people playing (as well as watching) to come extent it does. Its just the same as multiple games with matchmaking. You wouldnt want to be matched with someone who is a long time player when you are first starting. Why? Because they have that unfair advantage of playing longer. This is the same case. With these people streaming (and watching) they are basically getting the upperhand when the game is released. Considering the fact that despite all throughout the game's development Killing Jason was a secret, now right before the game is launched its already known. This basically means the people playing/watching right now knows exactly what to do and will be able to do it (quickly) once they get the game.

My only other concern as a Physical backer is the digital code. I understand its out of your control. But it bothers me that you guys might not be able to handle sending out Thousands of codes (full game, and DLC) within that time span. I would hate to still be waiting for my code when other people are already playing despite me personally helping the game. It wouldnt be fair especially as a backer. I would assume it would be done from Backerkit, which is what is worrying me. I have 2 orders (one for PC and one for the ps4) Only the PC order has a Digital Downloads options. So when exactly will that option pop-up for console users?

 

Overall this will blow over and (hopefully) soon we will get our codes and enjoy this game. I plan on spending my weekend playing this nonstop, as well as the following week taking a vacation and hopefully getting some games in! I just hope you guys learn from this when you guys do DLC, or another game. I wish you guys the best of luck in the future.

 

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20 minutes ago, Fatalfox said:

I personally never understood why people got upset at press and streamers getting access first. The gaming industry has always been that way and you guys arent the first to do it. So really not sure why suddenly its a big deal to people when almost every gaming company has been doing it for years. You just don't hear about it but almost any famous gaming youtuber you can ever imagine has always had early access to a  game or beta and all gaming review companies and press companies revolving around the game have had access. In short this isn't anything new and im not sure why everyone is suddenly making a big deal about it, can't wait to play Wes and thanks for the amazing game! ^^

Assuming you're a backer.  The issue comes when companies don't show appreciation for their crowdfunding.  Backers are told the game wouldn't exist if it wasn't for their pledges.  Now if you don't feel entitled to that appreciation just for the product you payed for.  That's not what kickstarter is.  We're not pre-ordering anything.  The project could've completely flopped I personally would've been fine.  Being entitled to a "thanks" and action showing their gratefulness isn't asking for too much.  I help with something I expect a "thanks".  Now we got that "thanks" but as the project continued it became more about lets get more people and forget about those guys.

Now how games are generally expected to be handled through kickstarter.  Those who paid for access get it, or the game goes into early access at teh same time we get our keys.  It's not that press usually get the game is the norm.  This game wasn't created by the norm.  It was crowdfunded.  Press be damned what they think.  We're locked into the product.  There's no returns for us so we're forgotten already?  Lets up the sales outside of what we promised.  

As stated in my longer post.  I'm not boycotting them or anything.  What I kickstarted has been made and I'm going to receive it.  I helped crowdfund the game and have a special Jason to show it off.  Even though I have no way of distinguishing myself as 1 of the first 12k players it's fine.  I'm still use to kickstarter projects looking out for their first backers first and foremost.  Annoyed and just disappointed on how an indie developer decided to do things.  I will not kickstart anything else they do and will probably wait for a late pledge since they give no reason to be part of initial vision.

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2 minutes ago, cetic said:

Assuming you're a backer.  The issue comes when companies don't show appreciation for their crowdfunding.  Backers are told the game wouldn't exist if it wasn't for their pledges.  Now if you don't fill entitled to that appreciation just for the product you payed for.  That's not what kickstarter is.  We're not pre-ordering anything.  The project could've completely flopped I personally would've been fine.  Being entitled to a "thanks" and action showing their gratefulness isn't asking for too much.  I help with something I expect a "thanks".  Now we got that "thanks" but as the project continued it became more about lets get more people and forget about those guys.

Now how games are generally expected to be handled through kickstarter.  Those who paid for access get it, or the game goes into early access at teh same time we get our keys.  It's not that press usually get the game is the norm.  This game wasn't created by the norm.  It was crowdfunded.  Press be damned what they think.  We're locked into the product.  There's no returns for us so we're forgotten already?  Lets up the sales outside of what we promised.  

As stated in my longer post.  I'm not boycotting them or anything.  What I kickstarted has been made and I'm going to receive it.  I helped crowdfund the game and have a special Jason to show it off.  Even though I have no way of distinguishing myself as 1 of the first 12k players it's fine.  I'm still use to kickstarter projects looking out for their first backers first and foremost.  Annoyed and just disappointed on how an indie developer decided to do things.  I will not kickstart anything else they do and will probably wait for a late pledge since they give no reason to be part of initial vision.

I am a backer yes since almost the very beginning and even bought all the DLC I could buy. Im sorry to hear your not gonna kickstart anything they do again for an extremely odd reasoning but thats your decision. I don't see any problem with anything they've done and I don't feel entitled to anything except having the game at release and enjoying it if it turns out to be the great product they promised me it would. I mean getting a thanks is great and we have been thanked many times and thats all I can ask for until the game is released. 

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6 minutes ago, justbilbo said:

Yes i know Lirik played yesterday as i watched him and crew play, my point was he could make a case that he (and others like him) could drive hype for any game. In regards to your data that is completely false, influencers on twitch do not have anywhere near that type of confirmed sales. 

Cheers.

I completely understood your point, but the link I provided right after his VOD was one from Twitch itself with data from a portion of the games they researched. Yes, Lirik and Co., have the ability to drive traffic to a title, but the data -- that isn't my own and was completed by someone with a far better understanding of data -- is relevant. Note that Punch Club, the title they reference, is an indie title.

Whether or not you believe that broadcasters on Twitch/YouTube/Mixer or any other streaming site have the ability to "sell" people on a title, you can't deny a simple fact:

The broadcasts get eyes on the game. One that the backers like yourself helped to get created in the first place. For many, it's their first time finding out that this game exists. For many others, they're being reminded of it after having not heard about it since the Kickstarter. Either way, when it's 48 hours to the public launch of a title, wouldn't it be nice to have it be fresh in the minds of people that may be interested in it?

Don't you want more people interested in the game you so passionately support so the dev team can continue to create more content for the game moving forward?

That's all my posts are trying to do is make that point. More people see the game, which increases the potential for more people to enjoy it as much as you do.

Have a great one. ?

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11 hours ago, DeejayKnight said:

The OP is the answer. They're giving broadcasters (admittedly, myself included) access to play a game that you helped get made, but only doing so 48 hours before you get the opportunity to play. Yes, the early access part sucks, but after waiting a year and a half for the devs to create this masterpiece, what's 48 hours? Also, you know what's awesome? The possibility that a FUCKTON of new people finding out about a game they never knew existed due to a movie they may or may not have seen before.

So I ask you, what's the difference in making YOU, the streamer, wait 48 hours more? Or allowing backers to play at the same time as you? 

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Just now, Fatalfox said:

I am a backer yes since almost the very beginning and even bought all the DLC I could buy. Im sorry to hear your not gonna kickstart anything they do again for an extremely odd reasoning but thats your decision. I don't see any problem with anything they've done and I don't feel entitled to anything except having the game at release and enjoying it if it turns out to be the great product they promised me it would. I mean getting a thanks is great and we have been thanked many times and thats all I can ask for until the game is released. 

I don't see how my reasoning is odd?  You're okay with Kickstarter Exclusive meaning early pre-order exclusive?  You're okay with waiting almost 2 years with only a vision, others get to review it before you but you can't ask for a refund? It also makes no difference if you got your hands on it at the same time.  Literally it would've made little difference if streamers got it on Friday or backers got it yesterday.  Nice guys finish last and all that I guess.

Again Kickstarter doesn't guarantee project fulfillment.  Be careful with how you approach future projects with that whole kickstarter is a pre-ordering platform mentality.

By the way anyone pre-ordering now are still paying as an early access title.  How steam let that go is beyond me.  $40 for multiplayer only but single player is included in month or so.  People are still buying into a vision.  You're going to tell me that it's still normal practice that press gets THIS kind of Early Access prior to an Early access release?  Far from normal.  

Just because normal games being made normally go to press first, doesn't mean kickstarter ones should.  Maybe you only kickstart video games. But even then this is the first video game I've backed, where exclusive didn't mean exclusive, and someone got their hands on it for free before I did without being a prototype.  All other Kickstarters I assure you product is meant to be in the backers hand before anywhere else.

 

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3 minutes ago, cetic said:

I don't see how my reasoning is odd?  You're okay with Kickstarter Exclusive meaning early pre-order exclusive?  You're okay with waiting almost 2 years with only a vision, others get to review it before you but you can't ask for a refund? It also makes no difference if you got your hands on it at the same time.  Literally it would've made little difference if streamers got it on Friday or backers got it yesterday.  Nice guys finish last and all that I guess.

Again Kickstarter doesn't guarantee project fulfillment.  Be careful with how you approach future projects with that whole kickstarter is a pre-ordering platform mentality.

By the way anyone pre-ordering now are still paying as an early access title.  How steam let that go is beyond me.  $40 for multiplayer only but single player is included in month or so.  People are still buying into a vision.  You're going to tell me that it's still normal practice that press gets THIS kind of Early Access prior to an Early access release?  Far from normal.  

Just because normal games being made normally go to press first, doesn't mean kickstarter ones should.  Maybe you only kickstart video games. But even then this is the first video game I've backed, where exclusive didn't mean exclusive, and someone got their hands on it for free before I did without being a prototype.  All other Kickstarters I assure you product is meant to be in the backers hand before anywhere else.

 

I am perfectly okay with waiting almost 2 years with only a vision. I guess im just a simple person who doesn't want to get wrapped up in semantics and just enjoy this game that I have looked forward to.

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3 minutes ago, Fatalfox said:

I am perfectly okay with waiting almost 2 years with only a vision. I guess im just a simple person who doesn't want to get wrapped up in semantics and just enjoy this game that I have looked forward to.

Well there in lies your answer of not understanding why people get upset at this sort of thing.  You clearly have no desire to grasp the reasoning or logic of it all.   I get your logic.  Which is fine there's just clearly a group that expects more.  You're not wrong we're not wrong.  It is the company's, this is a situation where they could've made everyone happy.

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I still come back to the point that this title would not have been viable unless those of us that ponied up money on the idea, invested in it through Kickstarter.

To say I am disappointed is an understatement. I supported at the $140 level and I never got my "exclusive beta access"... what I got was a half-baked weekend where press and streamers were allowed to play with those of us that paid for exclusive access. Unfortunately for me, that was a weekend I was out of town for a work assignment so I didn't even get that. I was told that there would be more opportunities to play, but those never came along.

Then I'm seeing streamers and press playing the game before release... and it's extremely disheartening to see a game I Kickstarted based on my love for the movies, the genre, and the idea behind the game provide early access for "Advertisement". There would be nothing to advertise if you didn't get your initial funding from Kickstarter... or I'm sure you would have found that funding when pitching your idea to publishers or venture capitalists.

So, when this is all said and done, I basically paid $140 for a collectors edition case, the game, and some DLC that you will sell to everyone for $5 eventually... what a waste of money.

I've Kickstarted quite a few games, I've been mostly happy with my choices of investment. The ability to help others achieve a goal that they could not fund on their own, and the perks I would get that kept me engaged during the process were worth the extra money. It's a shame that you guys decided to take the low road and not provide us the same benefit others have provided us in the past. You've shown that you do not value your backers with this decision... especially since this is the last time you could have honored us before the game's release. What a huge, missed opportunity.

This game was promised in October of 2016, you delayed it, and most of us were cool with that since you would make it up to us... can you remind me when you made it up to us? I can't seem to remember...

I'll be staying away from Illfonic, Gun Media, and Randy Greenback in my future Kickstarters, these entites have shown that they don't respect the people that crowdfund their projects and allow them to make a viable product.

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I preface this by saying i DON'T care that streamers got EA. Unlike a lot of other people, i'm not pissed about it.

But the part of me that always seeks out truth and fairness has to ask this.....

 

@Wes You said you only had limited keys to give out and that was a big part of your original posts explanation.

 

So.....why is Bikeman on twitch "Giving out keys to people and streamers i know"....?

At first i assumed he had pre-ordered a bunch of copies to give away in contests like many streamers had done. But it seems like he's giving out EA keys according to viewers of his stream...?

So i have to ask how that is possible?

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7 minutes ago, ikarikh said:

I preface this by saying i DON'T care that streamers got EA. Unlike a lot of other people, i'm not pissed about it.

But the part of me that always seeks out truth and fairness has to ask this.....

 

@Wes You said you only had limited keys to give out and that was a big part of your original posts explanation.

 

So.....why is Bikeman on twitch "Giving out keys to people and streamers i know"....?

At first i assumed he had pre-ordered a bunch of copies to give away in contests like many streamers had done. But it seems like he's giving out EA keys according to viewers of his stream...?

So i have to ask how that is possible?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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If there's a legit answer and i am misinformed i'll happily retract my question. But if it's true it does kinda seem a bit off to say you had limited keys but now have some random streamer giving them away for free to his friends who ask if they can play.

If there were extra keys, raffling them off to backers might have gone a long way to calming the herds. 

As a console peasant again, this doesn't affect me as i couldn't play EA even if i had a key. So i'm not being salty over EA. Just playing Devil's Advocate because you guys said as your legit explanation which i stand behind, that you had limited keys. So why is a streamer giving them to his friends?

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2 hours ago, cetic said:

86 projects backed, 2 undelivered and probably will never be finished.  This is the only company I've been disappointed with. I get press release.  

Does 48 hours of promotion really make that much of a difference?  I mean really? Does it?  Was possibly pissing off lets just say 10% of your backers worth it in your minds eye?  For 48 hours that's it...

So you've literally had your money stolen by two projects and yet THIS is the project that you get disappointed with? That's honestly ridiculous man. You're mad over a few business decisions, meanwhile they've ultimately delivered on what they promised you, a multiplayer Friday the 13th game. They even did so in faster fashion than most game developers need. Finishing a game in under 2 years is incredibly difficult.

To the other comment, you can look at it the opposite way as well. Are you really that affected or your support of the product that diminished simply cause 50 or so people online got to jump on the game a few days before you? In my experience, crowd funding users almost always find something to feel disenfranchised about, but ultimately we're all just customers that bought a copy of a game. We're really no different than someone that walks down to Game Stop and buys a copy of Halo they pre-ordered. They don't owe us anything beyond the video game coding we purchased.. The workings of the business and what's in the businesses best interest are ultimately Gun's to make. 

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Less upset with the streamer access and more upset that Jason can be killed.  That needs a patch to disable for now.  That will not make the game better in my opinion

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2 minutes ago, SinbaddP said:

Less upset with the streamer access and more upset that Jason can be killed.  That needs a patch to disable for now.  That will not make the game better in my opinion

They have always said Jason could be killed.  I accidentally spoiled it for myself watching a video earlier, and it doesn't look like something very easy to pull off in a real match.  A bunch of friends getting together and the Jason player letting it happen is one thing, in practice it's entirely something else.

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2 hours ago, Skeezy4Twenty said:

So I ask you, what's the difference in making YOU, the streamer, wait 48 hours more? Or allowing backers to play at the same time as you? 

There is none, really. If I were to have been told not to play until Friday, I wouldn't have played until then.

I know multiple members of my community that have pre-ordered and will be playing with me then!

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