Jump to content
wes

Breakable Fences

Recommended Posts

The question is, what is Jason's "win" condition? Kill five out of seven of the counselors? Kill 100%? Maybe my opinion is different, but to me it seems that half the counselors escaping on a typical match "feels" like Jason is underpowered.

I guess I might be in the minority.

I wouldn't say total minority. It seems like so much has been tweaked and balanced out,if they were a big company,we would have had a second beta. It definitely seems like it's become harder for counselors to escape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's amazing to me that your level of devotion is to the point where you don't even trust your own eyes.

If there was a way I could block your posts I would have done so a long time ago. How you escape being labelled a troll is beyond me.

 

Shit, sorry- you're right.

Rainbows!

I challenge your posts most of all.

 

That obviously makes me a troll. It doesn't mean we are having genuine disagreement or anything, yeah?

 

Keep your baseless accusations to yourself.

 

Once again, it's been established that we should wait to see how the model functions in game. Instead of challenging that further you pronounce me a troll.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a good point, in terms of how people behave. Nobody is going to be having premarital sex after they realize Jason is there, of course.

 

...and I agree that Jason should "win" 50% of the time. The question is, what is Jason's "win" condition? Kill five out of seven of the counselors? Kill 100%? Maybe my opinion is different, but to me it seems that half the counselors escaping on a typical match "feels" like Jason is underpowered.

 

I guess I might be in the minority.

 

This probably comes from player adaptation. As the beta went on, the police escape and time limit escape became the preferred method of escape, over the cars. The cars became too much of a hassle, too buggy, limited supplies, reliant on players with keys who died or never got to the car, etc. This then made the faster counselor be the most spammable. Which meant Jason was dealing with an army of Vanessa, instead of counselors who relied on skill or stealth to survive. Which meant as Jason, you really had to become a master of the shift grab kill in order to win. Especially as Part 7 because he's slow.

 

Since then, they've added breakable fences, the 'stalk' ability, the throwing weapons and put an extra step into calling the cops. We haven't yet really played with the strength savvy counselors like Adam and Brandon. So we don't know if combating Jason will become a real big weapon for them, unlike the rest when combating Jason was basically a bad idea.

 

We haven't seen how Part 1 or 2 play out in terms of the maps. One or both of those maps could have the boat escape or other methods of escape. They may or may not have increased tripping to prevent the faster counselors from just running all over and that's it. We know they said not to panic with the stats since Vanessa won't regen as fast as Deborah, despite the stamina difference.

 

I suspect the police method of escape will be altered one more time post launch. Whether its a timer increase, a removal of infinite escape or more car supplies or changing the fuse up.

 

So basically, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that Jason will continue to have the upper hand, no matter who the counselors are.

 

I also believe private match will probably have the option to make people choose different characters, in terms of the counselors. Which may or may not become a popular feature for competitive play. Provided this game gets big enough that some of the community branch off for a competitive branch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This probably comes from player adaptation. As the beta went on, the police escape and time limit escape became the preferred method of escape, over the cars. The cars became too much of a hassle, too buggy, limited supplies, reliant on players with keys who died or never got to the car, etc. This then made the faster counselor be the most spammable. Which meant Jason was dealing with an army of Vanessa, instead of counselors who relied on skill or stealth to survive. Which meant as Jason, you really had to become a master of the shift grab kill in order to win. Especially as Part 7 because he's slow.

 

Honestly from what I saw, the cars were a bit too difficult to get running. Keys in particular seemed to be the biggest impediment. The cars really need a hotwire skillcheck as an alternative to keys. Keys are hard to see if someone dies, and people ran off with the keys, whereas gas and battery had people make beeline for car since they encumbered you.

 

If the hotwire skillcheck were a "noisy" fail like the phone box, it would balance out the challenge vs. keys since only some characters could do it reliably, and someone trying to use Tiffany or Vanessa would be a liability, just like the phone box. Like if you failed the skillcheck it would make a "zap" sound, or maybe a brief engine-tried-to-turn-over-for-a-sec sound. Adam would get a buff on this vs. phone box since he's the car guy.

 

Keys would still be in the game to let you avoid the skillcheck, so they'd be vital if Tiffany wanted to drive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't say total minority. It seems like so much has been tweaked and balanced out,if they were a big company,we would have had a second beta. It definitely seems like it's become harder for counselors to escape.

Yeah and I wouldn't say there is so much a win condition for anyone really. You either live or die. Pretty much it. That might be a majority of the councilors or none of them. The only win condition is to try and escape without Jason pushing your happy parts in.

 

A second beta to put all the new stuff through the ringer would have been nice, but I get why they didn't do it at what it would have cost. But anyone that's been around the online gaming scene for a while pretty much knows that soon as this puppy rolls out the gate that there will be people making hacks and finding exploits to use right off the bat. Many of which the devs themselves haven't even thought about, much like they admitted to learning in the last beta.

 

On the bright side, they can always roll out some patches. But I expect the first few weeks will be...trying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I challenge your posts most of all.

 

That obviously makes me a troll. It doesn't mean we are having genuine disagreement or anything, yeah?

 

Keep your baseless accusations to yourself.

 

Once again, it's been established that we should wait to see how the model functions in game. Instead of challenging that further you pronounce me a troll.

 

For the record I preface this by stating I am not the person to go to about whether Jason's masks are on point or not. Regardless, multiple people have commented that some of them are a bit off in ways. 

 

Just because the devs had the resources doesn't mean they are perfect or infallible. So it's perfectly reasonable to make a criticism that the models aren't fully accurate. It doesn't mean they're saying the game is a failure or Gun needs to kill themselves over it. They're simply pointing out a criticism.

 

On the same token, as someone mentioned, it's entirely possible that due to using Kane Hodder as the framework for the models despite each Jason varying in size and shape due to varying actors in each movie, this may have made for variations in the models that alter them a bit inaccurately to their movie counterpart in small ways.

 

Whatever the case may be, there's no need to go back and forth fighting and arguing over it. 

 

All I know is that if I couldn't provide evidence to refute the claim that they're inaccurate, I wouldn't full on discredit anyone making the claim. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if they took into consideration that lacquer/clear coats yellow over time. I read they colour matched to actual masks but I imagine after 30+ years the mask's colour may have significantly changed with natural yellowing. The environment it was kept in can affect the colour- in the sun/dark, smoking/non-smoking, etc. also.

 

For the record I preface this by stating I am not the person to go to about whether Jason's masks are on point or not. Regardless, multiple people have commented that some of them are a bit off in ways. 

 

Just because the devs had the resources doesn't mean they are perfect or infallible. So it's perfectly reasonable to make a criticism that the models aren't fully accurate. It doesn't mean they're saying the game is a failure or Gun needs to kill themselves over it. They're simply pointing out a criticism.

 

On the same token, as someone mentioned, it's entirely possible that due to using Kane Hodder as the framework for the models despite each Jason varying in size and shape due to varying actors in each movie, this may have made for variations in the models that alter them a bit inaccurately to their movie counterpart in small ways.

 

Whatever the case may be, there's no need to go back and forth fighting and arguing over it. 

 

All I know is that if I couldn't provide evidence to refute the claim that they're inaccurate, I wouldn't full on discredit anyone making the claim.

 

You're far too reasonable and level-headed to be on this forum. :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You're far too reasonable and level-headed to be on this forum. :)

I assure you I know not of these outlandish things you speak. Accusations like that might get one branded a Heretic in these parts.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if they took into consideration that lacquer/clear coats yellow over time. I read they colour matched to actual masks but I imagine after 30+ years the mask's colour may have significantly changed with natural yellowing. The environment it was kept in can affect the colour- in the sun/dark, smoking/non-smoking, etc. also.

 

http://www.retr0bright.com/

 

=D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know but obviously something went sideways- maybe they just messed up or it didn't scan properly, maybe someone took a shortcut or maybe they mixed up masks or used the wrong one entirely? Who knows.

 

Now, I don't fully know the intent of your post but I'm going to make an assumption based on your previous posts and you're free to correct me if I've misread your intent:

 

I understand you're 110% behind these guys but you're not doing them, yourself or anyone any favors to deny something that is so plainly obvious to anyone capable of sight... Just sayin'.

 

zUO7uba.png

 

Here, I'll let Wes speak for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

zUO7uba.png

 

 

Here, I'll let Wes speak for me.

No one's disputing the colour of the Part 7 mask. The only mask people have disputed is the Part 6 mask.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one's disputing the colour of the Part 7 mask. The only mask people have disputed is the Part 6 mask.

 

They did the same process for every mask.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look, imma big Part 6 fan and I have no issues with the mask or his look. It looks pretty close to film accurate to me and to me that's good enough.

 

If others have issue with it. That's fine too. Not everyone will have the same opinion.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They did the same process for every mask.

Yeah I'm aware of that. It's still the only mask that doesn't look the way it does in the film. Countless people have said it. There's a reason people have long brought up this issue about the Part 6 mask and none of the others. No coincidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I'm aware of that. It's still the only mask that doesn't look the way it does in the film. Countless people have said it. There's a reason people have long brought up this issue about the Part 6 mask and none of the others. No coincidence.

Just saying, the devs don't agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just saying, the devs don't agree.

That won't ever stop people having a differing opinion, and nor should it. ????

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That won't ever stop people having a differing opinion, and nor should it. ????

An opinion isn't a substitute for facts though. You can't hide behind "It's my opinion." when the facts say otherwise. That's like saying "In my opinion the world is flat." Ok it is an opinion, but objective facts tell you it isn't true and if you continue to hold said opinion in the face of facts then your opinion is objectively wrong. You are however still allowed to hold it. It will be disputed though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

zUO7uba.png

 

Here, I'll let Wes speak for me.

I'm curious to know if a picture like that exists for the part VI mask. It's not something that really bothers me too much though. I'm more worried about if Wes understands the definition of "very soon."

 

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An opinion isn't a substitute for facts though. You can't hide behind "It's my opinion." when the facts say otherwise. That's like saying "In my opinion the world is flat." Ok it is an opinion, but objective facts tell you it isn't true and if you continue to hold said opinion in the face of facts then your opinion is objectively wrong. You are however still allowed to hold it.

???????????????? Don't lecture me on objectivity, and the concept of an opinion you patronising fool.

 

You can look at the masks used in Part VI, look at the in game Part VI mask and see the differences with your bare eyes. I.e. The nose looks nothing like what we saw in the film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious to know if a picture like that exists for the part VI mask. It's not something that really bothers me too much though. I'm more worried about if Wes understands the definition of "very soon."

 

;)

I'd imagine it does somewhere. They are reference shots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a massive misconception of people "moaning" about certain issues. People get demonised by others as soon as they say anything they feel is critique.

 

I'm not "moaning" I want this game to be as great as possible. Obviously I do. I've been watching F13 for almost 30 years and I've supported this game since it was "Summer Camp". I've backed it as much as I can afford to.

 

But if I see something that doesn't quite look right, I'm going to say so...with the best interests of the game at heart.

 

It's very simple.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got most movies on DVD myself (except JGTH that's the only one im missing) and i've saw Part 6 many times.

 

And as far as i can remember and what my own eyes saw,i clearly remember the mask being much paler in color weither it was a camera shot during the night or during the day.

 

I can understand if some small details needed to be made because of Kane Hodder body,that i dont mind.

 

But when it come to coloration,i expect the models to look accurate on that point.

 

Sure the devs scanned the masks (if of course they were the actual masks or replicas),but how accurate are they really when compared to what they look like in the movies,and if it was indeed one of the actual mask from back then dont forget,the mask aged over the years so the color changed because of aging.

 

Lighting is also important of course,but when you have the actual in-game models put in a game-engine rendering room like Paul Phoenix did,we can see the coloration of the models at it's clearest,and guess what it was also yellowish there.

 

There's a reason why artisans who make hockey mask replicas use actual footages and screenshots of the movie to refference themselves when making a mask,to make sure it look exactly like in the movies,the in-game part 6 mask on the other hand seem to be based more on the scan than the movie footage+screenshots.

 

Look,you can keep telling me that the devs tried their best at reproducing the mask in-game,but if you say that i cant even trust my own eyes,my own freakin' eyes...and for your informations my eyes are in perfect working conditions,no color blindness either.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonderful change!  Thanks!

 

 

Is there any chance the guardrails along the road will also be breakable like fences?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I'm aware of that. It's still the only mask that doesn't look the way it does in the film. Countless people have said it. There's a reason people have long brought up this issue about the Part 6 mask and none of the others. No coincidence.

 

Argumentum ad populum.  Just because a bunch of people believe something doesn't make them right.

 

I can see where the idea would come from: Hell, for some shots of the film, the yellowish "grease" or dirt or whatever seems to look different with each shot.

 

friday_the_13th_part_vi_jason_lives.jpg

 

Here the grease is noticeable but seems more subtle.

 

friday6c_758_426_81_s_c1.jpg

 

Here the grease is quite apparent.  In fact in this shot compared to what we currently have in the cabin, I'd say it's damn close.

 

My theory is that in the light of the cabin, it makes the grease pop out more.

 

 

latest_friday_the_13th_part_6_hockey_mas

 

This is why I question those who say "Well the film shows this" because film techniques are very different than taking the actual thing from the film doing translating it to a game.  In The Dark Knight Rises, the actor who portrayed Bane is actually pretty short, but (from what I heard) they used film techniques to make his presence seem far more menacing, hell in Part 3 the nose of the mask looks dirtier with each shot as the movie progresses because it gets worn and greasy from the actor taking it off by the nose.  So when we say that Part 6 doesn't look like the way it does in the film, my question would be which part are we talking about?  Again, film techniques change a lot; masks don't.  If they processed each mask piece by piece, then yeah I'd say I trust the word of Gun Media over the word of someone who has watched the movies a bunch of times.  Yeah, okay, you watched the films; so has Gun Media.  What's the point?  That they somehow messed up and have went this long without noticing or caring and aren't fixing it out of some pride or malice?  I doubt that greatly.  I am more quick to question the perception of people who think that films and games translate with absolute ease.

 

Part 6 looks pretty damn good, especially when compared to the last screenshot of the mask (dunno if this is the actual mask or a fan-made one made to look like Part 6, though I think it's the latter).

 

Keep in mind that in film, they do a LOT of different shots with different lighting, some natural, some artificial.

 

 

Watch the video, and tell me that you'd be able to tell that its the same mask from the cabin?  This is why I think it's just a Virtual Cabin lighting thing, that makes it look off.

 

Call me a fanboy, anti-criticism nutjob if you want.  I'm just confident that our (but in this argument, your own) perception isn't as crystal clear and unbiased as you imagine.

 

 

I rest my case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...