Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I'm completely fine with some of the the cousenselors being locked. I'd only have a problem with this system if it took months to unlock them (I highly doubt that it will take this long though).   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the unlock system, Especially for the stronger counsellors. The Jason unlocks are a good idea to imo as I like the idea of earning your way to the more cinematic kills.

 

Having a progressive unlock system will lend itself to preventing (or attempting to prevent) players from trolling Jason and just being stupid during matches. I know this will happen anyway, but this type of behavior will be less effective without the stronger characters.

 

So in order to unlock those stronger characters, you must earn points and complete achievements and actually participate rather than just run around like an idiot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could get behind a pay-to-unlock scheme, at least for some things. Granted, I'm a bit biased since the games I worked on had microtransactions, but I wholeheartedly endorse the trade-money-for-time model without any cynicism. Some people have jobs and work a lot of hours and don't have time to grind. People without jobs or only part-time jobs have more time to grind but not a lot of money.

I want Gun to have opportunities to make more money, as I firmly believe in and support this game.

So I think some sort of mild pay-to-expedite system would not be a bad thing, as long as it doesn't become pay-to-win, pay-to-advance, or pay-to-troll. So no gacha mechanics, no unrealistically steep progression curves, no timers, no in-game-currency, etc. Just spend-a-few-bucks-to-save-a-few-hours-of-grinding.

(MASSIVE hypocrisy on my part since my company's games have all those things, but that's another story. =P )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it's based on personal preference of course, but personally, I feel much closer to the game from an aesthetic point of view, if I unlock my favorite Jason, counselor, or skills for use within the game, based on good gameplay moments I might have had. Example, an epic match where I manage to kill all counselors, but just barely. Or my counselor manages to put a serious hurting on the big man, earning me enough to get my favorite aforementioned reward. It will be memorable. As long as it isn't a grind, I believe it will justify a more complete experience. Say a few unlockables done in a 6_8 hr. time span of casual gaming, maybe even a couple more unlocks, based on good play.

 

The frustration comes from consistent grinding, only to fall short, or not even close at all, after many hard played hours of good game skilling with no satisfaction other than memorable matches. I don't think that will be a problem with this game, most beta players moved up quite fast on the levels and unlocks and had a great time doing it. Thus justifying a great balanced game with rewards around the corner that are reachable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could get behind a pay-to-unlock scheme, at least for some things. Granted, I'm a bit biased since the games I worked on had microtransactions, but I wholeheartedly endorse the trade-money-for-time model without any cynicism. Some people have jobs and work a lot of hours and don't have time to grind. People without jobs or only part-time jobs have more time to grind but not a lot of money.

I want Gun to have opportunities to make more money, as I firmly believe in and support this game.

So I think some sort of mild pay-to-expedite system would not be a bad thing, as long as it doesn't become pay-to-win, pay-to-advance, or pay-to-troll. So no gacha mechanics, no unrealistically steep progression curves, no timers, no in-game-currency, etc. Just spend-a-few-bucks-to-save-a-few-hours-of-grinding.

(MASSIVE hypocrisy on my part since my company's games have all those things, but that's another story. =P )

I don't have the quote but they said something on Twitter about not having any micro transactions. I'm not into pay to advance schemes myself.

 

About Jasons and counselors, I'd prefer the models weren't a grind to unlock but I'd be fine with certain kills, etc being something you have to do some grinding to get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite simply, it improves longevity.

 

I'm not really for locked counselors, but Jasons, kills, perks, and customization?  Hell yeah.  But why would I be crazy enough to NOT ask for free stuff?  That's not the American way!

 

Because you get what you earn.  It'd be no fun if everyone could just equip things on their character.  Most of the fun in these kinds of games that prevents them from getting old or repetitive is unlocking the next item.  That was the one reason I played Dead By Daylight as long as I have, despite it being a buggy mess.  The progression in there felt nice, and even had some strategy to it, and you are always earning more trinkets along the way.  It's actually fun to unlock stuff in DbD.  If I had to give Dead By Daylight anything, it'd be that their progression is quite satisfying (except for ranking up, that shit is absurd).

 

You'll notice that many people play games longer when there is progression in them, except if you're a die-hard fan or if the gameplay and game itself holds on its own, which I am confident F13th will be able to since it doesn't focus itself so competitively and makes it just about stupid weekend-fun, just like the movies, which I still need to get around to watching all of them.

 

The progression will simply improve this game's longevity because you're actually working toward something, and after months and you finally unlock everything and they don't come out with new things for you to do, this game will easily last longer than six months of consistent fun, which is quite impressive, because I can barely dedicate a month to a game like Skyrim before my ADHD kicks in and I want something else.  Though that's only personal speculation for me.  I know I have been craving F13th since I vowed to quit Dead By Daylight, which looking at it now was a safe move.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Usually if you have a certain direction you want to proceed, a certain character or a ability you want, etc., the system that meets that requirement the best is a skilltree-type unlock system, so you can work for the perks/counselors/etc. you want first, then unlock the other stuff later when you have grinded more.

 

I'll be honest, and this is a bit self-serving. I want to FORCE PEOPLE TO NOT PLAY VANESSA so they can get some skills and learn how to play other characters. Some people will always be die-hard Vanessa players, but if people were forced to learn to use more advanced mechanics than just run-away-from-Jason-real-fast, they might be inclined to use other characters even when Vanessa is available.

So no more matches of you trying to get objectives done + 6 Vanessas constantly screwing up phone box or leading Jason to you and getting everyone killed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Discord server isn't owned by the devs. I'm the owner of said server.

Don't blame the mods though, they do whatever I tell them, so the blame is on me.

If you break a rule, you're either kicked, muted or banned. We prefer going for the mutes and bans since kick can be easily exploited.

I'm well aware people aren't happy about being banned from the server, but that's how it works, you break a rule, you're out.

If you were banned from the server, tell me and I'll bring up what you did wrong and try to explain it to you.

 

Edit: And for that "cringe" post of emotes, it's only for the fun of it. But seems like some people don't know how to have fun. Shame.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously i think this topic is going nowhere,all i see is one persistent guy (Palas Atenas) insisting that the devs get rid of the level-unlock system,but it's a bit too late now,the game is on the edge of being released i dont think the devs would have the time to re-modify the game to get rid of that system.

 

So i think it would be best to let the game come out with that system and see if it work or not for some of the peoples before we continue on with this whole argument,because for now this conversation is going in a circle and the topic creator will never get a satisfying answer to his question since it's not a question that can be easily answered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously i think this topic is going nowhere,all i see is one persistent guy (Palas Atenas) insisting that the devs get rid of the level-unlock system,but it's a bit too late now,the game is on the edge of being released i dont think the devs would have the time to re-modify the game to get rid of that system.

 

So i think it would be best to let the game come out with that system and see if it work or not for some of the peoples before we continue on with this whole argument,because for now this conversation is going in a circle and the topic creator will never get a satisfying answer to his question since it's not a question that can be easily answered.

Isn't nearly every topic going in a circle at this point? While waiting for release there is little else to do other than discuss opinions and hopes.

 

Look at the release topic that has the largest amount of replies of any topic and it's literaly been going no where for ages, yet it still has daily replies, many of which aren't even on-topic.

 

No one here is arguing. Only discussing opinions on hoe they wish unlocks would go. Being we don't know the finalized launch system for unlockd, all anyone can do is speculate and suggest how they hope or wish it to go.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not gonna quote everybody, but still wanted to contribute some more. This one will be a bit broken, so forgive me.

 

It seems that to some people the game actually dies once it's "capped" and the only reason to come back is to get more stuff and unlock more stuff, which is weird to me. But "weird" is not an argument, just a statement. The game that I played the most in my life (Dota) had no unlocks. When Dota 2 came around I basically sold every cosmetic I ever got. But from what I'm seeing, I'm part of a minority here. I've always - and clearly still think - thought that games shouldn't limit my experience (other than with the actual limits of the game. Not flying in F13, for instance, isn't a limitation so much as something that's just not part of the game.) and tell me how to enjoy them. As someone pointed out (and I think this feeling is shared by others as well), they would like to force people to not play the same character over and over. I'm against that sort of thing (forcing people to play a certain way) and, in a sense, it seems that the progression system works as something like that. Forceful, that is.

 

 

Someone used the TotalBiscuit argument of having more money than time so why not pay to unlock stuff? But from what I understand, F13's system is "level-to-unlock" only. There's no money involved. So you either have time, or... Well, that's your only option.

 

 

Game longevity was also mentioned, along with something like "if the game doesn't hold its own", meaning that progression is a bit of a life-support for games. As the argument itself mentions, however, that's for games that can't hold themselves up for what they are. What scares me about this is the truth in this statement. What scares me about it is thinking that maybe this system was put in place exactly as a life-support for a game that doesn't hold its own. It would deeply disappoint me. Again, I'll use the one example I have, which is Dota. What holds it in place is its core gameplay, which is there from the start. You can unlock some cosmetics and whatnot, and that does improve the longevity. So why not do something like it here? Why lock core gameplay behind it? A lot of people here said they don't mind the grind or having to unlock. Would you mind if there was no such thing? Would you ask for the grind to be implemented if it wasn't there? Cause there's one thing I never saw (and please, link me to it if you know where to find something like this, I would love to see it): someone asking for a game to lock stuff behind levels and progression.

 

 

Before the last thing I want to say, I'll just address the "it's too late" argument. This might sound cliche, but it's never too late to discuss ideas and to improve things. Maybe at launch it will have a god-awful progression system, then what? Too late, so just move on? I disagree with being passive and just eating whatever I'm given and I understand how that might annoy some people. But things change in time, usually in long stretches of time, not in an instant. Which is why having conversations like this is so important. Maybe this game will never change, who knows? Maybe they'll never patch a new progression after launch either. But these choices aren't made by devs alone. If players say they don't mind or don't care, then whatever happens is on them. I'm hoping that even if it is too late to change that for launch, that they can change it later down the road. I'm not willing to wait until then to start this conversation. This is part of gaming culture. So maybe this thread isn't going anywhere regarding F13's launch right now, but it's going somewhere. It's sure giving me a lot to think about and it's sure helping me understand how other gamers think and feel about the issues.

 
 

So... On to the last. Only one person actually answered my question, but I think there's something to take away from that one answer anyway: they said it would suck if they had to unlock stuff and other people didn't. Maybe I didn't word my question properly, but would it be a problem even if you had the choice between a locked or unlocked version of the game? Cause if even then there's a problem, this becomes a whole other aspect of progression which doesn't really concern the game itself, but the people. It seems that you would want progression (given you'd even make that choice to begin with - and as someone pointed out, why wouldn't you ask for free stuff (even though it's not really "free")?) for your own enjoyment, but knowing that someone else didn't have to go through that same grind is what was the problem. That leads us (or at least, me) to this thought: why do people even care how others enjoy the game? If you (and now I'm talking in general, not to the person that answered the question) choose to go down the road of unlocking stuff, grinding and levelling, why do others have to do the same? Again, it just seems to me that a progression system that unlocks core aspects of the game is limiting people's options, limiting their very experience of the game. I can't wrap my head around this idea and understand why would that ever be ok.

It seems that some people that enjoy locked content can actually only enjoy it when others have to go through the same thing. "They didn't earn it". But what's the actual problem in this? It seems that fun has become conditional, as in the amount of fun I extract from this game has a huge correlation to how other people play/unlock/enjoy this game. I keep bringing up Dota and I know how much it sucks to have one person in your team just being awful, so of course the way someone plays can impact the fun to be had in team-games. I've had games of Dota that made me want to pull my teeth out, but that was never ever ever caused by someone that had a different cosmetic item. Having locked characters is a whole other kind of deal. I have to go to work, so I'll cut this short. But that's something I think it's worth considering: do you want people to have a choice when it comes to the way a game should be experienced?

 

And just a final jab towards that "not going anywhere" remark, I think this has been a very nice conversation so far that's been bringing up all sorts of thoughts about this matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never once had an ounce of frustration with the unlock system.

It is fun to unlock stuff and be rewarded for playing. New characters feel like a reward. They also serve as status symbols and let other players know that you aren't a total noob. It also helps to spot potential noobs.

In games where there are unlocks and I remove them via cheat codes, the game seems to get boring a lot quicker and have less replayability.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not gonna quote everybody, but still wanted to contribute some more. This one will be a bit broken, so forgive me.

 

It seems that to some people the game actually dies once it's "capped" and the only reason to come back is to get more stuff and unlock more stuff, which is weird to me. But "weird" is not an argument, just a statement. The game that I played the most in my life (Dota) had no unlocks. When Dota 2 came around I basically sold every cosmetic I ever got. But from what I'm seeing, I'm part of a minority here. I've always - and clearly still think - thought that games shouldn't limit my experience (other than with the actual limits of the game. Not flying in F13, for instance, isn't a limitation so much as something that's just not part of the game.) and tell me how to enjoy them. As someone pointed out (and I think this feeling is shared by others as well), they would like to force people to not play the same character over and over. I'm against that sort of thing (forcing people to play a certain way) and, in a sense, it seems that the progression system works as something like that. Forceful, that is.

 

 

Someone used the TotalBiscuit argument of having more money than time so why not pay to unlock stuff? But from what I understand, F13's system is "level-to-unlock" only. There's no money involved. So you either have time, or... Well, that's your only option.

 

 

Game longevity was also mentioned, along with something like "if the game doesn't hold its own", meaning that progression is a bit of a life-support for games. As the argument itself mentions, however, that's for games that can't hold themselves up for what they are. What scares me about this is the truth in this statement. What scares me about it is thinking that maybe this system was put in place exactly as a life-support for a game that doesn't hold its own. It would deeply disappoint me. Again, I'll use the one example I have, which is Dota. What holds it in place is its core gameplay, which is there from the start. You can unlock some cosmetics and whatnot, and that does improve the longevity. So why not do something like it here? Why lock core gameplay behind it? A lot of people here said they don't mind the grind or having to unlock. Would you mind if there was no such thing? Would you ask for the grind to be implemented if it wasn't there? Cause there's one thing I never saw (and please, link me to it if you know where to find something like this, I would love to see it): someone asking for a game to lock stuff behind levels and progression.

 

 

Before the last thing I want to say, I'll just address the "it's too late" argument. This might sound cliche, but it's never too late to discuss ideas and to improve things. Maybe at launch it will have a god-awful progression system, then what? Too late, so just move on? I disagree with being passive and just eating whatever I'm given and I understand how that might annoy some people. But things change in time, usually in long stretches of time, not in an instant. Which is why having conversations like this is so important. Maybe this game will never change, who knows? Maybe they'll never patch a new progression after launch either. But these choices aren't made by devs alone. If players say they don't mind or don't care, then whatever happens is on them. I'm hoping that even if it is too late to change that for launch, that they can change it later down the road. I'm not willing to wait until then to start this conversation. This is part of gaming culture. So maybe this thread isn't going anywhere regarding F13's launch right now, but it's going somewhere. It's sure giving me a lot to think about and it's sure helping me understand how other gamers think and feel about the issues.

 
 

So... On to the last. Only one person actually answered my question, but I think there's something to take away from that one answer anyway: they said it would suck if they had to unlock stuff and other people didn't. Maybe I didn't word my question properly, but would it be a problem even if you had the choice between a locked or unlocked version of the game? Cause if even then there's a problem, this becomes a whole other aspect of progression which doesn't really concern the game itself, but the people. It seems that you would want progression (given you'd even make that choice to begin with - and as someone pointed out, why wouldn't you ask for free stuff (even though it's not really "free")?) for your own enjoyment, but knowing that someone else didn't have to go through that same grind is what was the problem. That leads us (or at least, me) to this thought: why do people even care how others enjoy the game? If you (and now I'm talking in general, not to the person that answered the question) choose to go down the road of unlocking stuff, grinding and levelling, why do others have to do the same? Again, it just seems to me that a progression system that unlocks core aspects of the game is limiting people's options, limiting their very experience of the game. I can't wrap my head around this idea and understand why would that ever be ok.

It seems that some people that enjoy locked content can actually only enjoy it when others have to go through the same thing. "They didn't earn it". But what's the actual problem in this? It seems that fun has become conditional, as in the amount of fun I extract from this game has a huge correlation to how other people play/unlock/enjoy this game. I keep bringing up Dota and I know how much it sucks to have one person in your team just being awful, so of course the way someone plays can impact the fun to be had in team-games. I've had games of Dota that made me want to pull my teeth out, but that was never ever ever caused by someone that had a different cosmetic item. Having locked characters is a whole other kind of deal. I have to go to work, so I'll cut this short. But that's something I think it's worth considering: do you want people to have a choice when it comes to the way a game should be experienced?

 

And just a final jab towards that "not going anywhere" remark, I think this has been a very nice conversation so far that's been bringing up all sorts of thoughts about this matter.

 

I would suggest quoting people, even if there are a lot, for the sake of avoiding Shotgun Argumentation.

 

I will respond to the underlined portion:

 

I did ask for things to be locked.  Why would I ask that?  Again, everyone likes free stuff, right?  Well, that's not true; its a common misconception that free stuff always makes things better, in fact it suggests quite the opposite.  If everything in the game was free, not only will longevity be extinguished, but there would be no motivation to play the game further other than until you get bored.  Locking items behind something means you have to put effort into getting what you want, and that inherently gives that item value.

 

People value their lvl 65 World of Warcraft character with extra dungeon gear and such, because they put several hundred hours of time into the game and put it onto that character.  That character has inherent value because you've exchanged real time and in-game skill for a reward.

 

I used to play TimeSplitters 2.  Game had TONS of content locked, and to unlock them you had to play through the whole game, complete all the challenges, and get silver - gold trophies on each.  I put hundreds of hours into that game to unlock all that stuff, mostly because I suck, but after unlocking all of it that progress has inherent value.  I make sure that memory card ALWAYS stays in the GameCube :D

 

It'd be no fun if you got to put whatever trinkets you want on your character.  Sure, the downside is that you may unlock things you won't use or won't want, but the inherent value that comes when you unlock something you really want makes that item just that much more exciting.

 

Working to unlock Part 9 will make it far more fun to play as him and show him off than if I were to simply equip Part 9 the first time I boot up the game.  Hell, many people even bought Savini Jason, not because they liked him, but because he was an exclusive Jason and they get to flaunt it about.  Value at work.  They spent money on a skin that will likely never ever ever EVER be sold again, and because of that their skin has value.  Same with progression, except obviously not as intense.

 

So yeah, I'd love to have items locked behind a wall of progress.  I'd want nothing more than to earn what I get.  Because that  makes the experience, if progression is done right, just that much more entertaining and fun! :wub:

 

And it's not like I necessarily like grinding.  Hell, playing Grand Theft Auto V is a pain for me because of how grindy it is.  But when good progression is accompanied by a good game, nobody minds having to go the extra mile to unlock that one skin they really want.

 

You can see this in the real world as well.  Hell, I can think of several real life examples.  Making things free or common reduces their value in the real world.  You value gold more than you value a dollar, but when you make both free, they are of equal value; that is to say, they are socially worthless.  I hate to bring up politics, but free college is another example.  Free is good!  But free also makes things worthless socially.  The value of Associates and Bachelor degrees have been plummeting due to how many people are getting them, and making them free to get only makes that value plummet further because they're so common.  Sorry for the slight deviation into political realm, but I couldn't find a better real life example of value at work at the very second; that comparison is something people can understand easier.

 

I mean, there's a reason why Inflation exist and why the value of the dollar raises and falls.

 

What you suggest is the video game equivalent to pure, immoral anarchy.  That is to say, everything is free and you do as you will.  Thing is, you find that you are more content when you work for something than when you're given it.  You feel like you have ownership over it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the key take away here is that everyone plays games for differing reasons and enjoys different aspects of them.

 

So there will never be a universal agreed upon opinion on what the best way to approach unlocks/progression is.

 

With that said, just give me my sexy edgy guy plz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what all progress does this game have so far?

 

1. Unlock Perks

 

2. Unlock Kills

 

3. Unlock Jasons / Campers

 

4. Unlock Cosmetics

 

5. Pamela Tapes.

 

That's a fair bit of unlockable content. I will be totally fine with unlocking campers and Jasons as long as the leveling goes fast enough.

 

If leveling from 1 to Cap and unlocking all campers takes like 30-40 hours I'm okay with that. Just PLEASE don't make it a 300 hour deal...

 

HOWEVER if theirs a lot of kills/ cosmetics/ perks that take a lot of time to get, 500-1000 hour time investment cosmetics/Secrets. Or a prestige system of some sort I would be totally fine with that.

 

Many games have prestige systems for neat cosmetics now days and its become quite a popular feature. Even if they add it later into the multiplayer, having something to work towards long haul is generally VERY good for game health.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what all progress does this game have so far?

 

1. Unlock Perks

 

2. Unlock Kills

 

3. Unlock Jasons / Campers

 

4. Unlock Cosmetics

 

5. Pamela Tapes.

 

That's a fair bit of unlockable content. I will be totally fine with unlocking campers and Jasons as long as the leveling goes fast enough.

 

If leveling from 1 to Cap and unlocking all campers takes like 30-40 hours I'm okay with that. Just PLEASE don't make it a 300 hour deal...

 

HOWEVER if theirs a lot of kills/ cosmetics/ perks that take a lot of time to get, 500-1000 hour time investment cosmetics/Secrets. Or a prestige system of some sort I would be totally fine with that.

 

Many games have prestige systems for neat cosmetics now days and its become quite a popular feature. Even if they add it later into the multiplayer, having something to work towards long haul is generally VERY good for game health.

 

I think the perfect progression would getting the characters unlocked fairly quickly, then having kills and perks unlocked more slowly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the idea of your favorite counselors being locked, so you are forced to play as other counselors and learn how to play in a different way, stop being pussies! 

 

Starting counselors:

- Jenny

- Chad

- Kenny

- Eric

 

Unlockable counselors:

- AJ (First to unlock)

- Adam (Second one)

- Vanessa (Third) 

- Deborah (Fourth)

- Tiffany (Fifth)

- Buggzy (Final one)

 

MUAHAHAHA HA HA HAAAA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I'm not looking forward to the long grind to unlock Tiffany. The game was fun enough where I had fun playing whoever though.

I just wanna know who we start with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the idea of your favorite counselors being locked, so you are forced to play as other counselors and learn how to play in a different way, stop being pussies! 

 

Starting counselors:

- Jenny

- Chad

- Kenny

- Eric

 

Unlockable counselors:

- AJ (First to unlock)

- Adam (Second one)

- Vanessa (Third) 

- Deborah (Fourth)

- Tiffany (Fifth)

- Buggzy (Final one)

 

MUAHAHAHA HA HA HAAAA

Nothing 'pussy' about it.

 

I'll happily play as other counselors. I just don't wanna get stuck playing as a counselor I don't even like for weeks straight grinding endlessly just to unlock one that I do.

 

I mained Cindy and David on Resident Evil Outbreak when the servers were still up for that. That didn't stop me from essentially playing as every single character from time to time. The ONLY char I never touched more than once was Mark because I found him useless. But tons of matches I played as Yoko, Alyssa, Kevin, George and even Jim. 

 

I will gladly play as various counselors. But I would just like to do so when I 'feel' like playing them, not be forced to.

 

That's my personal view on it. But I know that some are gonna be locked and Adam will almost guaranteed be one of them. I just hope it's not a long grind to unlock him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally enjoy having to unlock things, having that sense of progression. It gives me a sense of purpose to a game. Though I do see the alternate point of view.

 

Saying "wait until you play the game" is pat, but really it's completely down to the nature of the XP system and how quick or slow it is. I plan on putting an awful lot of time into this game anyway, but for others with less it's an important balance to keep the rewards steady.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would suggest quoting people, even if there are a lot, for the sake of avoiding Shotgun Argumentation.

 

I will respond to the underlined portion:

 

I did ask for things to be locked.  Why would I ask that?  Again, everyone likes free stuff, right?  Well, that's not true; its a common misconception that free stuff always makes things better, in fact it suggests quite the opposite.  If everything in the game was free, not only will longevity be extinguished, but there would be no motivation to play the game further other than until you get bored.  Locking items behind something means you have to put effort into getting what you want, and that inherently gives that item value. (1)

 

People value their lvl 65 World of Warcraft character with extra dungeon gear and such, because they put several hundred hours of time into the game and put it onto that character.  That character has inherent value because you've exchanged real time and in-game skill for a reward. (2)

 

I used to play TimeSplitters 2.  Game had TONS of content locked, and to unlock them you had to play through the whole game, complete all the challenges, and get silver - gold trophies on each.  I put hundreds of hours into that game to unlock all that stuff, mostly because I suck, but after unlocking all of it that progress has inherent value.  I make sure that memory card ALWAYS stays in the GameCube :D

 

It'd be no fun if you got to put whatever trinkets you want on your character.  Sure, the downside is that you may unlock things you won't use or won't want, but the inherent value that comes when you unlock something you really want makes that item just that much more exciting.

 

Working to unlock Part 9 will make it far more fun to play as him and show him off than if I were to simply equip Part 9 the first time I boot up the game.  Hell, many people even bought Savini Jason, not because they liked him, but because he was an exclusive Jason and they get to flaunt it about.  Value at work.  They spent money on a skin that will likely never ever ever EVER be sold again, and because of that their skin has value.  Same with progression, except obviously not as intense.

 

So yeah, I'd love to have items locked behind a wall of progress.  I'd want nothing more than to earn what I get.  Because that  makes the experience, if progression is done right, just that much more entertaining and fun! :wub:

 

And it's not like I necessarily like grinding.  Hell, playing Grand Theft Auto V is a pain for me because of how grindy it is.  But when good progression is accompanied by a good game, nobody minds having to go the extra mile to unlock that one skin they really want.

 

You can see this in the real world as well.  Hell, I can think of several real life examples.  Making things free or common reduces their value in the real world.  You value gold more than you value a dollar, but when you make both free, they are of equal value; that is to say, they are socially worthless.  I hate to bring up politics, but free college is another example.  Free is good!  But free also makes things worthless socially.  The value of Associates and Bachelor degrees have been plummeting due to how many people are getting them, and making them free to get only makes that value plummet further because they're so common.  Sorry for the slight deviation into political realm, but I couldn't find a better real life example of value at work at the very second; that comparison is something people can understand easier.(3)

 

I mean, there's a reason why Inflation exist and why the value of the dollar raises and falls. (3)

 

What you suggest is the video game equivalent to pure, immoral anarchy.  That is to say, everything is free and you do as you will.  Thing is, you find that you are more content when you work for something than when you're given it.  You feel like you have ownership over it. (3)

Crazy couple of days, couldn't be here earlier and still can't be here for long.

 

Anyways, I'm gonna number some of  the comments (also numbered them inthe quote) that I want to - quickly - talk about. I'm really enjoying this conversation.

 

1) It's interesting that you would put "motivation" in these terms, meaning something that goes beyond fun, suggesting that it would keep people playing even after they stopped having fun with the game. Unless you meant it's just something extra on top of fun and that people will only play until they get bored anyway. One thing is certain for me, I don't play a game past the point where I'm not having fun it, regardless of how many unlocks/quests/whatever are still left.

 

2) And that was one of my earlier points, with which you - who's, apparently, on the other side of this discussion's spectrum compared to me - seem to also agree. There is certainly value in a high level character, so why not make that F13's system instead? Have characters unlocked, but give them levels. Sure, maybe you don't get the satisfaction of unlocking the character, but you still get to level it to crazy numbers withouth having to impose the frustration on those of us that don't want - and don't see value in it - to spend all that time just to get a character. Would you be ok with something like that? I still think it's a reasonable middle-ground.

 

3)Don't be sorry, politics is part of life. I agree with almost everything you said in regards to the value of things and how it's viewed nowadays (this being a keyword here). The argument that you seem to be bringing forward at this point is that games are "socially stratified" and should be as such, so that people can flaunt this and therefore be - help me here, which word should I use? - higher-up/cooler/admired/etc by others. If that's what people want, it's fine by me. But why would I have to take part in this? And this goes back to the middle-ground I mentioned. Levelling characters and getting to walk around in a level 100 LaChappa with a special name, tag, portrait or whatever is just fine. I'm not gonna work towards that, other people might. I just want to play my level 1 LaChappa whenever I feel like it, how is that interfering with others' fun and flaunting and prize-grabbing? I don't see how that interferes. I do see, however, how locking characters may interfere with my experience (caus I've seen it and felt it in other games).

Also, I do think people can be content with what they achieved, meaning they worked towards 40 dollars and, in my view, they've earned this game. All those 40 dollars are buying, however, is the right to work towards having the full game. That's where the frustration kicks in the hardest, I think. I think some of us are into gaming to have fun, not to be part of this weird (in my view, of course) society that wants players to acknowledge just how awesome people with different stuff are. I do think that some people play the game for this aspect as well - like you seem to - and that's fine by me. But it seems that, in some aspects, it's not fine by you that I don't get to play the game the way I feel fits me better, which would be picking any character from the start, without having to grind (further) towards it. So it actually doesn't make me more content.

 

 

I think the key take away here is that everyone plays games for differing reasons and enjoys different aspects of them.

 

So there will never be a universal agreed upon opinion on what the best way to approach unlocks/progression is.

 

With that said, just give me my sexy edgy guy plz.

 

Yes, I think we can all agree we all play games differently and want different things from a game, so why not give people just a little bit more options, right? That can't be a bad thing. If you unlock characters but keep a level system in each of them with cool unlocks along the way and something that actually changes the way your name/portrait/character looks at the last level, I'm pretty sure more people could be happy than if there's this locked character (which, like I said earlier, is a pretty clear line in the sand for me) system. I know I'd be absolutely fine with a prestige system.

 

 

So what all progress does this game have so far?

 

1. Unlock Perks

 

2. Unlock Kills

 

3. Unlock Jasons / Campers

 

4. Unlock Cosmetics

 

5. Pamela Tapes.

 

That's a fair bit of unlockable content. I will be totally fine with unlocking campers and Jasons as long as the leveling goes fast enough.

 

If leveling from 1 to Cap and unlocking all campers takes like 30-40 hours I'm okay with that. Just PLEASE don't make it a 300 hour deal...

 

HOWEVER if theirs a lot of kills/ cosmetics/ perks that take a lot of time to get, 500-1000 hour time investment cosmetics/Secrets. Or a prestige system of some sort I would be totally fine with that.

 

Many games have prestige systems for neat cosmetics now days and its become quite a popular feature. Even if they add it later into the multiplayer, having something to work towards long haul is generally VERY good for game health.

I couldn't agree more with the last part. Prestige and cosmetics are very healthy for the game, specially cause there's the portion of players that want to get and flaunt that stuff, as evidenced earlier in this thread.

 

There are clearly ways to please a greater number of people. I think a prestige system is one of the best for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crazy couple of days, couldn't be here earlier and still can't be here for long.

 

Anyways, I'm gonna number some of  the comments (also numbered them inthe quote) that I want to - quickly - talk about. I'm really enjoying this conversation.

 

1) It's interesting that you would put "motivation" in these terms, meaning something that goes beyond fun, suggesting that it would keep people playing even after they stopped having fun with the game. Unless you meant it's just something extra on top of fun and that people will only play until they get bored anyway. One thing is certain for me, I don't play a game past the point where I'm not having fun it, regardless of how many unlocks/quests/whatever are still left.

 

2) And that was one of my earlier points, with which you - who's, apparently, on the other side of this discussion's spectrum compared to me - seem to also agree. There is certainly value in a high level character, so why not make that F13's system instead? Have characters unlocked, but give them levels. Sure, maybe you don't get the satisfaction of unlocking the character, but you still get to level it to crazy numbers withouth having to impose the frustration on those of us that don't want - and don't see value in it - to spend all that time just to get a character. Would you be ok with something like that? I still think it's a reasonable middle-ground.

 

3)Don't be sorry, politics is part of life. I agree with almost everything you said in regards to the value of things and how it's viewed nowadays (this being a keyword here). The argument that you seem to be bringing forward at this point is that games are "socially stratified" and should be as such, so that people can flaunt this and therefore be - help me here, which word should I use? - higher-up/cooler/admired/etc by others. If that's what people want, it's fine by me. But why would I have to take part in this? And this goes back to the middle-ground I mentioned. Levelling characters and getting to walk around in a level 100 LaChappa with a special name, tag, portrait or whatever is just fine. I'm not gonna work towards that, other people might. I just want to play my level 1 LaChappa whenever I feel like it, how is that interfering with others' fun and flaunting and prize-grabbing? I don't see how that interferes. I do see, however, how locking characters may interfere with my experience (caus I've seen it and felt it in other games).

Also, I do think people can be content with what they achieved, meaning they worked towards 40 dollars and, in my view, they've earned this game. All those 40 dollars are buying, however, is the right to work towards having the full game. That's where the frustration kicks in the hardest, I think. I think some of us are into gaming to have fun, not to be part of this weird (in my view, of course) society that wants players to acknowledge just how awesome people with different stuff are. I do think that some people play the game for this aspect as well - like you seem to - and that's fine by me. But it seems that, in some aspects, it's not fine by you that I don't get to play the game the way I feel fits me better, which would be picking any character from the start, without having to grind (further) towards it. So it actually doesn't make me more content.

 

I'll continue to address your points in the 1 2 3 method, let's not break it down anymore to avoid Shotgun Argumentation.

 

1) I indeed suggested that a good progression system can motivate people to keep playing to the point where fun is out the window really.  I've been willing to play bad or mediocre games like Dead By Daylight because of their satisfying progression.  World of Warcraft isn't really that fun of a game, really it's just kinda of a time suck, especially with other MMOs that use actual real-time combat, but progressing in that game is also quite satisfying, and that's why many to this day still play it.  However, if the game is both fun and has a good progression system, then it's the perfect balance.  I'm not saying this because this is personal experience (even though that is a big reason) but because that's what evidence has shown us.  Good progression systems can make a mediocre game more fun, and a bad progression system can make a good game seem lesser  than it is.

 

2) There is no value in having a high level character; it's just a number.  There is value in the rewards for having a high level character.  If you're suggesting a level system with rewards, then something has to be rewarded.  Perks, kills, and other such things.

 

The problem here is that you'd have to personalize each reward, or else it would feel cheap.  This game has a universal unlock system.  Meaning no matter who you'd play, you can unlock characters and spend resources to unlock kills, perks, and cosmetics.

 

In order to implement your idea, we'd have to junk the whole system, then individualize each perk and kill to make each Jason be able to have their own path that you can level with in order to make the progression satisfying enough.

 

3) Because it's not realistic.  Again, if you want to choose whatever character and apply your leveling system, that's fine, but there are still things that have to be locked.

 

Nobody cares how you feel if everyone is running around in the same cool outfit that everybody likes, and nobody has to earn any of it.

 

Even in so-called sandbox games, many things you have to earn require effort in order to achieve.  In Minecraft, you have to dig deeper and go into more challenging areas to get access to more resources and rarer materials.  You can't just make a hundred wooden pickaxes and start mining for diamonds.  That'd break the fun of the game.

 

Making everything in the game immediately available is like morphing Creative Mode and Survival Mode in Minecraft.  It's no fun.

 

If you want something like that, play a power-trip game.  And even in THOSE games like hack 'n slashes, there are challenges you have to overcome.  Space Marine, Gauntlet, so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...