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Disarming Jason Traps

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It's funny; you never had a problem with Laphin until you saw he is testing the game with the Devs.  Sorry if I call you out for you putting it against someone that they are HELPING the Dev team.  Y'know, helping them test and provide feedback for the game that you're waiting for?  Your criticism is unwarranted because it's based on pure personal grounds of jealousy, not any grounds of logic or reality that his efforts help the game in the long run because the team trusts Laphin to keep his mouth shut, keep calm, provide feedback, and help propagate the game.

 

Same deal with Charmin X Soft, though he hasn't posted anything F13th related in a little bit.

 

But I do have bias because Laphin is my boy.  But I can conclude that your remarks toward Laphin are based on resentful discontent because I can see no other reason why you would lack the apparatus to detect that Laphin is providing free help to the Dev team and has proven trustworthy so far to do so.  Wasn't a controversy until you came along.

Whatever you say, Res.

 

Stay cool, stay creative. ;)

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Sounds like a Slippery Slope Argument. Be careful not to assume one thing will inevitably lead to another.

 

I'm fairly confident this won't be the case with the game. I fully agree a balance needs to be kept and with what we have so far traps doesn't seem that bad compared to the attention to detail thus far.

Oh, yeah it's definitely a far end of the spectrum thing. 

 

*Uses Doc Brown's time machine so we can listen in on an LJN meeting.*

 

Guy 1. "Ok guys we got this Friday the 13th licence. How are we going to do it??" 

 

Guy 2. "Well, we can't have one antagonist. How about every victim of Jason is now a zombie?"

 

Guy 3. "Ooooh, and the wolves and birds and wildlife can do Jason's bidding!"

 

Guy 4. "And why not make Jason's mom's head float and bite you?" 

 

Guy 5. "And the counselors can dig up bloody weapons of dark power and mystical books of eldritch lore."

 

Guy's 2-4 in unison. "That has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard." 

 

Guy 1. "We'll just give them a torch as a weapon, but first you have to light all the fireplaces."

 

*After dropping off the car and coming back to the forum.* 

 

It isn't gonna happen here, but the point is that the further away we get from lore, the more the game is F13 in name only. We don't want that. 

 

Edit: Missed Mr wiggum's comment. Responding to that now.

 

 

Ralph Wiggum 777 said...

 

 "The Friday the 13th NES game was originally a Hudsonsoft adventure game released in Japan that LJN just bought and stuck a few Jason elements in it. There was never any design planning to make it a Jason game, he just got added in at the last second to make it marketable to U.S. audiences. Adding one uncharacteristic trapping ability to Jason's arsenal is hardly a comparable equivalency to an entire game being made with no consideration to the franchise at all..."

 

I did not know that the F13 title was simply slapped on another game. Underhanded and a reason the title was so crappy. Thanks for the nugget of knowledge.  Also, I don't think adding trapping is a big deal, as I note earlier. My overall point is that the lore is what makes it an F13 game, rather then a generic horror game. the more you get away from the lore, the more you get away from F13. I know Gun has to balance the lore and the gameplay and that anytime the lore is set aside, it has to be for good reason. 

 

Double Edit: This editing over double posting rule is a pain in the ass. I've tried to edit a quote in like six times and it sucks. 

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I dont get why everyone is fighting over this. If it works as is then fine if it doesnt they said they'll fix it so whats the big deal. theres better stuff to fight about

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This thread has derailed wayyy off topic. It's no longer even about Jason's traps anymore.

 

Standard forum behaviour for ContentiousBlaze! 

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Let's get this back on topic:

 

Jason was given traps. Why? Beats me but it's not my game. We were told they wouldn't be able to be deactivated because it's a horror game. People (rightfully so) freaked out and were told to stop the negative bandwagoning and just have patience............ Next day it was announced trap deactivation will be patched in at some point.

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Friday NES game, no matter its origins, still felt 100% like an authentic Friday the 13th game back then, and even now, it even had children to protect that could be killed.  In some ways it was even darker than the movies.

 

Friday the 13th The Game looks and feels even more authentic to the franchise, and even greater than all the movies combined.

 

as for the traps thing, I don't mind if counselors can't help other counselors free from traps faster, counselor friends could still stay near to help defend their trapped counselor friend.   and as for disarming traps, I don't mind if there's no disarming traps mechanic, it does add more tension, and encourages more team effort to survive, and increases the value of weapons and counselor traps as well. 

 

as long as counselors can eventually break free (which if I read right, Jason traps only last a bit longer than Counselor traps) within a fair amount of timeframe, I don't think it's broken when you consider:

 

1. a competent Jason player is required to kill any counselors at all

2. Counselors could help defend trapped counselors in various ways

3. traps that are not disarmable creates more challenge, FEAR, and tension.

4. Counselors outnumber Jason 7 (sometimes 8) to 1. 

5. traps makes it more possible for Jason to kill all counselors. 

6. Jason can't be in two places at once.  a trapped counselor doesn't automatically mean they are doomed.

7. traps enhance the value of items and team effort.  weapons to fight off Jason from killing a trapped friend, items to break free if Jason grabs them.  resources to heal and recover.  

 

 

I know it's a different genre, but look at those battle royale games, the latest one made $13,000,000 in first 3 days in its early access, but the bottom line is that genre is popular because it's so difficult to survive, it's so difficult to be the last one/team standing,

and the rush and excitement of actually surviving is great because it's not guaranteed nor common that they'll survive.

the battle royale challenge conditioned the community to accept that getting killed is a part of the game, and fuels incentive to play again and try to do better and get luckier.

 

Friday the 13th The Game needs that challenge curve to stay interesting, and the traps are one positive way to make things more interesting without being distant from the source material.

 

overall I think undisarmable traps actually offsets how OP the police escape method still is.  Jason can't go over there and kill the cops (when they would definitely be killable if this were a movie), Counselors can cheesily lure Jason to get shot so more counselors can easily escape.  even making it harder/longer to call them, the police advantage really risks making the full version on the counselors favor, emptying those rounds of any fear.

 

with undisarmable traps, Jason could block escape towards the police, and have more time to try to take out some counselors.

 

On the flipside, undisarmable traps should be disarmable in a way, but I think it should take a long time to disarm them compared to the counselor freeing theirself from them. 

 

and I think traps should be invisible, there would be more surprise and fear if traps can't be detected, but yea there would be an argument about traps should be visible outside of grass placements, but they definitely shouldn't look so obvious.  so I think traps should be at least invisible if like placed on grass, because you know their textures are going to stick out too much. 

 

its a tough thing to balance, but if the traps are not disarmable, people shouldn't flip a lid over it, this genre is sensitive and dependent on keeping things challenging, and being a Counselor fan myself, I understand that Counselors still have more in their favor. 

 

I don't think the game will hold interest longer if Counselors could dismantle what's intended to catch them, surprise them, and fill them with fear, and greater dependence on others to protect them.   It can add more heroic and cooperative moments to the experiences.

 

its a double edged sword really.  if the traps can't be disarmed, there'll be rants, if they can be disarmed, then people would rant things are easier and Jason players would complain when they can't catch anyone.  and Counselors would complain that it's not scary and challenging enough the more they escape the map successfully round after round. 

 

The one thing about the traps, disarmable or not, is that they shouldn't be easy to detect or detectable at all, cause otherwise the element of surprise is gone and people will be like "oh look, it's a trap, let's avoid it."

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Friday NES game, no matter its origins, still felt 100% like an authentic Friday the 13th game back then, and even now, it even had children to protect that could be killed. In some ways it was even darker than the movies.

 

Friday the 13th The Game looks and feels even more authentic to the franchise, and even greater than all the movies combined.

 

as for the traps thing, I don't mind if counselors can't help other counselors free from traps faster, counselor friends could still stay near to help defend their trapped counselor friend. and as for disarming traps, I don't mind if there's no disarming traps mechanic, it does add more tension, and encourages more team effort to survive, and increases the value of weapons and counselor traps as well.

 

as long as counselors can eventually break free (which if I read right, Jason traps only last a bit longer than Counselor traps) within a fair amount of timeframe, I don't think it's broken when you consider:

 

1. a competent Jason player is required to kill any counselors at all

2. Counselors could help defend trapped counselors in various ways

3. traps that are not disarmable creates more challenge, FEAR, and tension.

4. Counselors outnumber Jason 7 (sometimes 8) to 1.

5. traps makes it more possible for Jason to kill all counselors.

6. Jason can't be in two places at once. a trapped counselor doesn't automatically mean they are doomed.

7. traps enhance the value of items and team effort. weapons to fight off Jason from killing a trapped friend, items to break free if Jason grabs them. resources to heal and recover.

 

 

I know it's a different genre, but look at those battle royale games, the latest one made $13,000,000 in first 3 days in its early access, but the bottom line is that genre is popular because it's so difficult to survive, it's so difficult to be the last one/team standing,

and the rush and excitement of actually surviving is great because it's not guaranteed nor common that they'll survive.

the battle royale challenge conditioned the community to accept that getting killed is a part of the game, and fuels incentive to play again and try to do better and get luckier.

 

Friday the 13th The Game needs that challenge curve to stay interesting, and the traps are one positive way to make things more interesting without being distant from the source material.

 

overall I think undisarmable traps actually offsets how OP the police escape method still is. Jason can't go over there and kill the cops (when they would definitely be killable if this were a movie), Counselors can cheesily lure Jason to get shot so more counselors can easily escape. even making it harder/longer to call them, the police advantage really risks making the full version on the counselors favor, emptying those rounds of any fear.

 

with undisarmable traps, Jason could block escape towards the police, and have more time to try to take out some counselors.

 

On the flipside, undisarmable traps should be disarmable in a way, but I think it should take a long time to disarm them compared to the counselor freeing theirself from them.

 

and I think traps should be invisible, there would be more surprise and fear if traps can't be detected, but yea there would be an argument about traps should be visible outside of grass placements, but they definitely shouldn't look so obvious. so I think traps should be at least invisible if like placed on grass, because you know their textures are going to stick out too much.

 

its a tough thing to balance, but if the traps are not disarmable, people shouldn't flip a lid over it, this genre is sensitive and dependent on keeping things challenging, and being a Counselor fan myself, I understand that Counselors still have more in their favor.

 

I don't think the game will hold interest longer if Counselors could dismantle what's intended to catch them, surprise them, and fill them with fear, and greater dependence on others to protect them. It can add more heroic and cooperative moments to the experiences.

 

its a double edged sword really. if the traps can't be disarmed, there'll be rants, if they can be disarmed, then people would rant things are easier and Jason players would complain when they can't catch anyone. and Counselors would complain that it's not scary and challenging enough the more they escape the map successfully round after round.

 

The one thing about the traps, disarmable or not, is that they shouldn't be easy to detect or detectable at all, cause otherwise the element of surprise is gone and people will be like "oh look, it's a trap, let's avoid it."

Well I disagree with the NES game feeling authentic to the series for the simple fact there were no floating heads, zombies (other than Jason if you want to look at him that way.I say he isn't a zombie because zombies are mindless and Jason certainly isn't mindless.) and some other weird stuff that doesn't belong. Everything else though is pretty much spot on in my opinion.

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Standard forum behaviour for ContentiousBlaze! 

 

We didn't actually derail the thread.  We discussed whether traps are lore friendly.  You argued that it wasn't.  I argued that it was/didn't matter.  And we proceeded to cite situations.

 

And please stop with your insults.  I've done nothing to insult you so why do you do it?  It's really petty.  If you can't handle discussion in a forum without throwing insults and names, maybe this isn't the place for you.

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 The Friday the 13th NES game was originally a Hudsonsoft adventure game released in Japan that LJN just bought and stuck a few Jason elements in it. There was never any design planning to make it a Jason game, he just got added in at the last second to make it marketable to U.S. audiences. Adding one uncharacteristic trapping ability to Jason's arsenal is hardly a comparable equivalency to an entire game being made with no consideration to the franchise at all...

 

This is incorrect. Atlus developed Friday the 13th, and LJN published it. Hudson had nothing to do with the game.

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We didn't actually derail the thread.  We discussed whether traps are lore friendly.  You argued that it did.  I argued that it didn't.  And we proceeded to cite situations.

 

And please stop with your insults.  I've done nothing to insult you so why do you do it?  It's really petty.  If you can't handle discussion in a forum without throwing insults and names, maybe this isn't the place for you.

 

It's not an insult is it? It's as throwaway harmless as posting a meme of a Batman villain in reply to me disagreeing with Wiggam (politely I might add). It's just a poor attempt at antagonising from a post of which you didn't have to comment. Hence, why I ignored it. I've expressed an opinion and debated it all through this thread. I haven't been disrespectful or offensive towards the developers or anyone. Because you disagreed with it, you've brought up all kinds of outlandish nitpicks and comparisons that have just burned forum space. You yourself have viewed it as an argument. Something that has heat. That's being defensive. I personally don't have a problem.  

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Not all the Jasons use traps. Jason goes to Hell Jason shouldn't even have traps.

 

They need to limit it 4 to 1 on traps.

 

Jasons that don't have traps in the movies or use them should have 1, and the rest that have them should have 4 or 3.

 

Certain Jason models shouldn't be able to carry more than 1 trap.

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After reading more of this topic, yeah some of you are way off base man. The traps are cool, but it shouldn't be a "go-to" thing.

 

The problem I have is that Jason players will place traps at objective spots like people said before. And that is cheesy.

 

Disarming the traps is fine, but it kinda feels like this might be a mainstay in the game, and it shouldn't be. It shouldn't feel about traps and disarming them all the time I think.

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If you told Kane Hodder on the set of New Blood/Manhattan/Jason Goes To Hell that he had to drop down on one knee and set a trap he would say:

 

"Jason doesn't do that."

 

It's honestly a little mind boggling that after months of hearing that "details matter",to the point that they added the bell to the porch,we are suddenly getting such a late game mechanic that honestly feels like a way to spice up youtube/twitch let's play videos and not something any of the in game Jason's would ever do or have done,besides the snare in Part II.

 

............please don't kill me.

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A man living in the woods wouldnt have figured out how to use traps lol. it a game lets try it if it doesnt work they can change it, it isnt that big a of a deal. traps are great idea i think. kane was told what to do in the movies so asking an actor what would of happen is crazy the writer and director would have made those choices. part 8-x wouldnt have work good because they where in boats and houses most of the time. but traps are great because part 6-x jason are slow as a snail

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Traps aren't going to break the balance of the game. It could become a problem if every Jason has like 3+ traps or something.

 

There should be Jasons that don't have any traps.

 

The Jasons that do outside part II and III should have a their attributes tweaked to make up for it. I just don't want every match to be a trap fest where Jason sets the traps up at key objective points 1st every time, then he goes after counselors.

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Personally to balance out being able to disarm a trap with a knife,is too make the chances of finding a knife more of a rare occurrence. 

 

If they give the ability to disarm,that means the likelihood of seeing the trap makes it more detectable and less of a hidden item. 

 

You give jason traps,people complain,then the counter balance is being able to disarm it with a pocketknife. Now,that needs to be counterbalanced so it's not a wasted trap item.

 

Make the knife less accesible. 

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kane was told what to do in the movies so asking an actor what would of happen is crazy the writer and director would have made those choices.

Writers and directors are on record saying Kane was very vocal about what Jason would or wouldn't do. He would actually not do scripted things,and was responsible for Jason not kicking Toby the dog in Part VIII. Sorry,my fandom is showing :D

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Writers and directors are on record saying Kane was very vocal about what Jason would or wouldn't do. He would actually not do scripted things,and was responsible for Jason not kicking Toby the dog in Part VIII. Sorry,my fandom is showing :D

What I find amusing in that anecdote is that Jason mellowed out as a revenant.

 

Poor Muffin.

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What I find amusing in that anecdote is that Jason mellowed out as a revenant.

 

Poor Muffin.

???????????? I never once linked that together in all the decades I've watched these films lol

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i think that we are just going to have to play to find out how this is all going to play out. Using a knife to spring the trap sounds like a good option, I'm just glad they are thinking of having one. A lot of people hold the pocket knife as a get out of jail free card, but like I've said before, who knows if the Jason player will even give you a chance to use it. Towards the end of the beta I noticed Jason slashing at the counselors causing them to limp then grabbing them. If they used a pocket knife they weren't getting very far after Jason recovered. Although I can't remember how long it took to use first aid spray, but if you stabbed Jason and sprayed I think you had enough time to get away.

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Give all the Jasons only one trap.

 

Solves everything.

 

That way...

 

1. Counselors can choose to step in it, knowing Jason only has one

2. Cuts down on the worry of pocketknife waste

3. Still allows counselors to attempt to disarm

4. No need to expand on first aid, since adding more first aid would kill balance even more. Getting the counselors to limp and die is going to be difficult enough for weaker/less skilled Jasons. We don't want to the counselors to have a ton of first aid because of the traps and whatnot.

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The word balance never really can apply to being a counslor vs. Jason. Yes I realize this is a game and their needs to be the ability to escape. It really should be hard as hell to one get away,let alone survive. 

 

Hell I would give the zombie version's of Jason more tools given how slow as hell they are. I understand Jason was never fleet of foot but the gingerly walk the dead ones take should be more balanced like maybe a higher morph rate.

 

I mean the traps are a great neutralizer and personally speaking,it's not out of canon since Jason did use it in the reboot. I personally think losing the knife is no big deal because you can sometimes kick out when Jason grabs anyway.

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This is incorrect. Atlus developed Friday the 13th, and LJN published it. Hudson had nothing to do with the game.

My bad, you're absolutely right. That's what I get for trying to post at work and not paying close enough attention.

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If you told Kane Hodder on the set of New Blood/Manhattan/Jason Goes To Hell that he had to drop down on one knee and set a trap he would say:

"Jason doesn't do that."

It's honestly a little mind boggling that after months of hearing that "details matter",to the point that they added the bell to the porch,we are suddenly getting such a late game mechanic that honestly feels like a way to spice up youtube/twitch let's play videos and not something any of the in game Jason's would ever do or have done,besides the snare in Part II.

............please don't kill me.

He did it in the opening scene of the remake. Even using a bear trap no less....

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