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Disarming Jason Traps

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If I were Jason (under the rules described in original post) I would only trap important places (like the phone box). The phone box is Jason's #1 weakness because it is the only means of EVERY counselor escaping. If I knew my phone box trap had just been disarmed, there's a good chance I would drop whatever pursuit I was doing (unless it was an escaping car) and immediately morph to the phone box to stop whoever was there.

I can always go back and kill the person I was originally chasing later, but if the cops get called then everyone else could potentially get away.

Keep in mind that even IF the cops are called you got to wait for them to arrive and then pinpoint where they park. It's simply the easiest escape route, not a guaranteed escape. Jason can still get to you before you get to them. A fixed vehicle is a guaranteed escape as long as you don't fool around.

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After looking at the OP and considering the pocket knife idea, I have what I believe to be a good marriage of ideas.

 

Pocket knives are very valuable to players and they want to keep them to get out of Jason's grasp, more so than losing it on Jason's traps I believe. Here's how we can have the best of both of the main ideas.

 

1. You CAN use a pocket knife to SILENTLY disarm Jason's trap. Using the pocket knife would reward the counselor willing to give it up with keeping Jason unaware that it has been disarmed.

 

2. If you don't have a pocket knife, you can SET OFF Jason's trap by using a weapon you are willing to sacrifice(tree branch, baseball bat, pipe, etc.) to jam it into the trap's pressure switch to set it off, but doing this alerts Jason the same as if someone stepped in the trap. This would get the trap out of the way while sacrificing a means of defense for when Jason shows up. I don't think this would have physics problems if it came with its own animation and camera work like with the pocket knife. It wouldn't be that you "drop" the item like in normal gameplay, it would have that prompt to deactivate like with the knife. Say, if you have both a pocket knife and a weapon, the prompt has two buttons and you hold down which one you want to do, knife or weapon.

 

We have to think about risk and reward. Jason risks losing a trap for not being sneaky with it, a counselor risks alerting Jason for not being "smart" in disarming a trap by merely jamming an object into it, or risks being SOL without a pocket knife.

 

If the ONLY method to disarm a trap is to use a pocket knife that is lost upon use, then Jason gets ALL REWARD and no risk. No pocket knife? Counselor is forced to step in it or is forced to avoid the important phone box and cars. If they have a pocket knife, well Jason has just removed an annoying pocket knife from play. It's just win/win for Jason that way.

 

EDIT: The idea to add a skill check as proposed by JyusannichiKibou and others could work too. I'll add my own twist to it:

 

3. If a disarm via skill check is added, I think it should also factor in Luck in some manner. Perhaps Strength or Intelligence for disarming and Luck for the chance to avoid making noise. High strength/intelligence may allow for a faster disarm, but with low luck you run the risk of letting out a big sound blip in your location. High luck would mitigate the chance for noise to be made but with low strength/intelligence it would take longer. But that's just my two cents.

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I've been thinking about this all day and was just getting ready to write a long winded argument for the ability to disarm the Jason traps, only to come here and see that this thread has been created.

 

Seriously Wes, thank you for being so in touch and responsive with us. 

 

I really like the idea JyusannichiKibou mentioned: allowing 3 different choices with different pros and cons, but allows for quick, meaningful, situational decisions to be made that vary greatly from game to game, even from one minute to the next. 

 

I'm also in agreement with VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow, that it has to be a bit of risk/reward for both parties. Jason has more than enough tools in his disposable, but each one carries a little weakness for him. That is what the councilors need, that glimmer of hope. 

 

Love the idea of using the pocketknife to perform a silent disarm of the trap, and a weapon (or foot) to do a loud disarm. If there were a skill check, possibly could be strength based instead of intelligence? Gives them something to excel at, and also stresses the importance of a balanced team. 

 

Perhaps luck or strength can also influence whether the pocketknife breaks or not, so its not always a sure thing to lose the most valuable item?

 

Perhaps to make up for councilors being able to destroy or disarm the traps, you could allow Jason to reuse silently disarmed traps, if he notices that it has been disarmed of course. 

 

If we are going to be set on 100% guaranteed pocket knife breakage to the councilor, then the silent disarm should either be unheard by Jason, or if he does hear it, it shouldn't automatically indicate which trap has been disarmed. If Jason has set down 3 traps, he would have to guess which one was tripped. Of course, if only one was in play, its a moot point.

 

Also, is there a cool down on the trap setting ability? Can Jason just drop them all in quick succession, or is there a little wait? 

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After reading a bit I think I might add an extra bit to my original post. Along with making the disable a skill check, you could also provide an option to sacrifice a bigger weapon to spring the trap like a stick, bat, axe, machete, for example, but in doing so you alert Jason as you would have by stepping on it.

 

It's a thought.

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You don't need special skill to disarm a bear trap, even a "special Jason" one; Jam a stick in it. Snap. Disarmed.

 

That's why the idea to stick a weapon in it to disarm it came up in the other thread. Anyone can do it and trading a weapon for disabling a trap is fair in my opinion.

 

EDIT: I didn't realize this thread was made by Wes! I thought it was a fan thread, so I'm sorry if this post came off as rude at all.

 

 

 

.....really? you're acting more polite just 'cause it's a dev...?

 

....right.

 

On topic i agree with what the others say that there should be more ways to disarm a trap, though using the pocket knife is the best possible starting point since it a reason for people that hoard 'em to use them on something useful and help the team rather than just have free escapes.

 

I was worried that pocket knife hoarding would be an early meta but this way it'll atleast provide some difference in balance, which i welcome.

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.....really? you're acting more polite just 'cause it's a dev...?

 

....right.

 

On topic i agree with what the others say that there should be more ways to disarm a trap, though using the pocket knife is the best possible starting point since it a reason for people that hoard 'em to use them on something useful and help the team rather than just have free escapes.

 

I was worried that pocket knife hoarding would be an early meta but this way it'll atleast provide some difference in balance, which i welcome.

Let me re-phrase in no uncertain terms: After re-reading my post I realized that it might come off as rude, to anyone, so apologies to anyone that thought it was rude.

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This is great imo now we have to think do i waste a knife on a trap or save it for when jason grabs me.

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I think is kinda tough to use a mechanic that is completely randomly generated. I am sure you can start with a pocket knife depending on how you set traits or skills as you level up.  But I still think Jason's trap are too valuable to him since they are a non-regenerative resource. You could go thru several matches and never find one pocket knife. Now you have created a mechanic that can not be utilized except by chance. 

 

I go back to my original statement. If you can disable Jason's Traps he should be able to recover them.  Plus you cannot assume a camper in a trap is going to be an easy kill. What if they set off the trap, get grabbed by Jason, then use a pocket knife to high tail out of there. You are basically doing the same thing as disarming it. Especially since you have an advantage at getting away with speed and possible JUKE ABILITY DUN DUN DUN!

 

Personally, I think that being able to reclaim spent traps is unnecessary; one use is enough. Jason can sense, shift, morph, stalk, rage, throw knives and set traps. He can instantly drown people underwater and anyone he grabs, I think he's got enough in his arsenal. Traps are consumable items, just like the counsellor ones. I can't remember if traps were reclaimable in the beta after Jason stepped in it, but if that's the case then you have to bare in mind that he can't die. 

 

If Jason can reclaim traps after them being used, then what's the point of disarming them if they can just reappear in the same location a few minutes later? There's only a finite amount of knives in the map, enough to disarm all of Jason's traps and probably have none left after. That's a fair price to pay I think.

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 If there were a skill check, possibly could be strength based instead of intelligence? Gives them something to excel at, and also stresses the importance of a balanced team.

Oh, wow, that's an excellent idea! Say Jason traps the phone box, you can remove it silently (without using a pocket knife) if you have a *strong* character do the skillcheck on the trap disarm, and then have the smart character do the skillcheck on the phonebox repair. It requires teamwork, but gives the counselors hope in that they can stealthily pull it off if they do it right.

 

Smart characters who wanted to solo the same situation would have to pocketknife the trap, then skillcheck the phone box. Strong dumb characters soloing could skilllcheck the trap, then try to skillcheck the phone box and flee if they screw up. (This is balanced, as the trap would injure you if you failed the skillcheck, while the phone box fail just alerts Jason and you have a chance to flee if you have a dumb-but-athletic character.)

 

EDIT: So basically we'd have three options

 

SPRING TRAP: Lose weapon (or foot if you just walk on it). Always alerts Jason. (Makes a sound and a big blip on his map and vision for maybe 20 seconds).

 

FORCE DISARM TRAP: Strength skillcheck, *long* delay, silent disarm on success, hands get eaten if fail. On failure it alerts Jason just as if you walked into the trap, though maybe with lessened damage. Trap is still disarmed on fail.

 

KNIFE DISARM: Lose pocketknife -- no skillcheck and almost instant, but 100% lose knife. OR *maybe* super hard skillcheck, very fast, only lose knife on fail, but still silently disarm on fail. Realistically even smart counselors would lose the knife 90% of the time because the skillcheck would be extremely difficult. Personally I'm in favor of no skillcheck, you just lose the knife (this being the "easy" way out of the situation -- you're trading the most valuable consumable in the game for a scot-free escape from the trap, just like a scot-free escape from Jason if he grabs you)

 

One issue that's been brought up is that this mechanic could require an increase in the number of pocket knives to compensate. This is a bad idea as pocket knives are super powerful and it would suck if you had a ton of Vanessas carrying three pocket knives. Instead you could add a *VERY FEW* (I'm thinking two,  maybe three) "screwdrivers" to the map that would be good for traps but not for shivving Jason. They could be rare enough that people still wind up in sacrifice-their-knife situations, but still be there so that people question if they should drop their heal spray or firecrackers to make room for the screwdriver "just in case".

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 I can't remember if traps were reclaimable in the beta after Jason stepped in it, but if that's the case then you have to bare in mind that he can't die. 

 
 

 

 

Nope. Jason broke traps he stepped in.

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Thinking on it more, I really like the ideas bounced off of CreepingDeath and VorheesAJollyGoodFellow.

 

This incentivises Jason to place his traps for multiple purposes!

If he hides traps in hard-to-see-places, they are more likely to be "traditional" traps. They immobilize a counselor for maybe 5-10 seconds, enough time for him to morph/shift there and pick them off while they are vulnerable.

Meanwhile, if he lays them in obvious-but-strategic places, it makes them more area-denial weapons. Giving counselors multiple ways to disarm them means Jason can't use them as free remove-knife-from-game tools, but the counselors still have to make hard decisions on how they're going to clear the path to the objective they're trying to get to.

 

This provide better balance, making Jason have to choose whether he wants to use his traps as a means of getting kills on unwary counselors, or slowing down counselors achieving their objectives.

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I can't complain about the quick response to the heavy backlash the traps idea has gotten without a counter to them.

 

I still like the Part 2 trap idea better. Jason rarely used traps in the films minus Part 2 and Reboot Jason, who felt like he was a bit smarter than the old Jason. If Reboot Jason were in the game, I would've given the traps exclusively to him and Part 2 Jason, non of the others. It would give you extra incentive to play them, but perhaps too much since they are proximity weapons. As it is, you already stated you limited the traps to each Jason with a different amount. The earlier Jasons I suspect have more traps.

 

I think if the trap were like it was in Part 2. It would make more sense. Not something that damages the counselors, but it requires them to have another counselor to escape. Obviously the players who work as a team would have no issue with these sort of traps. But the solo dolo players will be in big trouble, since they could in theory be stuck in a trap indefinitley and would be easy pickings for Jason. Stuck upside down from a rope with no place to go.

 

I still see the rushing police box method to be the ultimate drug of choice for the counselors, even with the extra step added in the feedback. Every single Jason player will absolutely be trapping the police box first, the cars later. The cars have limited items, harder to find and not as many to find them and more hassle to escape, since you actually have to leave in the car as opposed to running around the map, waiting for police to arrive.

 

If im Jason. I don't even worry about the car in the early part of the match. I would place every single trap around the buildings where the police box is featured. Now if the Devs decide to double the supplies for the cars to say 4 gascans, 4 batteries and 4 keys. Then it would make the cars a more viable way to escape and therefore rushing the police box might not be the preferred method of escape.

 

I still think that method will need one more tweak. Not necessarily adding an extra step, but I would make it so the fuse wouldn't always be in the same set of buildings as the phone and the power box. I would make it so the fuse could be in any of the cabins or buildings on the map. I suspect this will happen if the cars continue to be ignored in favor of rat rushing the police escape.

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Waiting for the police is now super dangerous though, as Jason's abilities become more and more powerful every minute.  From minutes 10-20, surviving is going to be insanely hard.

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Waiting for the police is now super dangerous though, as Jason's abilities become more and more powerful every minute.  From minutes 10-20, surviving is going to be insanely hard.

 

And with the extra step, it would take them several more minutes to even consider repairing the phone, and no doubt they probably modified the timer.  Even if they didn't, the fuse negates early-match police call even if you spawn right next to the box (which happened frequently in the Beta, someone would spawn next to the box, fix it, and call the police within a minute of the match).

 

Now the Police is almost always going to be Mid to Late Match, because it takes a bit to find a fuse unless you're super lucky, and even then still takes five minutes for them to arrive.  I'd say an average of 10 minutes would be eaten up before the police are even on site, rather than 6 or 7 minutes before they are on site.

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I can't complain about the quick response to the heavy backlash the traps idea has gotten without a counter to them.

 

I still like the Part 2 trap idea better. Jason rarely used traps in the films minus Part 2 and Reboot Jason, who felt like he was a bit smarter than the old Jason. If Reboot Jason were in the game, I would've given the traps exclusively to him and Part 2 Jason, non of the others. It would give you extra incentive to play them, but perhaps too much since they are proximity weapons. As it is, you already stated you limited the traps to each Jason with a different amount. The earlier Jasons I suspect have more traps.

 

I think if the trap were like it was in Part 2. It would make more sense. Not something that damages the counselors, but it requires them to have another counselor to escape. Obviously the players who work as a team would have no issue with these sort of traps. But the solo dolo players will be in big trouble, since they could in theory be stuck in a trap indefinitley and would be easy pickings for Jason. Stuck upside down from a rope with no place to go.

 

I still see the rushing police box method to be the ultimate drug of choice for the counselors, even with the extra step added in the feedback. Every single Jason player will absolutely be trapping the police box first, the cars later. The cars have limited items, harder to find and not as many to find them and more hassle to escape, since you actually have to leave in the car as opposed to running around the map, waiting for police to arrive.

 

If im Jason. I don't even worry about the car in the early part of the match. I would place every single trap around the buildings where the police box is featured. Now if the Devs decide to double the supplies for the cars to say 4 gascans, 4 batteries and 4 keys. Then it would make the cars a more viable way to escape and therefore rushing the police box might not be the preferred method of escape.

 

I still think that method will need one more tweak. Not necessarily adding an extra step, but I would make it so the fuse wouldn't always be in the same set of buildings as the phone and the power box. I would make it so the fuse could be in any of the cabins or buildings on the map. I suspect this will happen if the cars continue to be ignored in favor of rat rushing the police escape.

Off-topic but your signature is awesome. :)

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I'm still a bit hesitant.

 

It seems like a big sacrifice still.  It's better than just walking on the trap with no way to disarm it.  But the amount of pocket knives should at least be equal to the amount of Bear Traps Jason has in order to keep things fair.  I would also like using the knife on Jason as an option prompt rather than an automatic thing so we can strategize with it, though that isn't as big a deal to me.

 

We will see.  I appreciate the change I was honestly a little bit afraid. 

 

There are already a good number of pocket knives that appear for players.

 

A: Not everyone's going to find a pocket knife, and not all of the drawers will ever be checked.   ;)

B: It IS a big sacrifice, that's the entire point.  The game is not here to "aid" counselor players.  In case you forgot.   ;)  It's survival horror. 

 

This is a game about fear and panic.  Having the counselors feel safe and almost guaranteed to have a pocket knife with every cabin they enter, is a big no-no.

 

Some of you that are commenting, are commenting based on ONE system that's going on, and nothing else.

You guys seem to forget, there are distractions and other things going on.. Between things like objectives, music, other counselors, and other things you just need to be patient for and WAIT ON... complaining about these traps in the fashion that you are (if you still are complaining or worrying), is ... well, ridiculous.

 

This game will not become another Dead by Daylight.  (That's the biggest worry it seems).  Trust me... it won't.

 

LISTEN TO ME NANCY.   Everything will be fiiiiiine.   Like wine.

 

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There are already a good number of pocket knives that appear for players.

 

A: Not everyone's going to find a pocket knife, and not all of the drawers will ever be checked.   ;)

B: It IS a big sacrifice, that's the entire point.  The game is not here to "aid" counselor players.  In case you forgot.   ;)  It's survival horror. 

This is a game about fear and panic.  Having the counselors feel safe and almost guaranteed to have a pocket knife with every cabin they enter, is a big no-no.

Some of you that are commenting, are commenting based on ONE system that's going on, and nothing else.

You guys seem to forget, there are distractions and other things going on.. Between things like objectives, music, other counselors, and other things you just need to be patient for and WAIT ON... complaining about these traps in the fashion that you are (if you still are complaining or worrying), is ... kinda ridiculous.  

 

LISTEN TO ME NANCY.   Everything will be fiiiiiine.   Like wine.

 

Trust us, we've been waiting.

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I think if the trap were like it was in Part 2. It would make more sense. Not something that damages the counselors, but it requires them to have another counselor to escape. Obviously the players who work as a team would have no issue with these sort of traps. But the solo dolo players will be in big trouble, since they could in theory be stuck in a trap indefinitley and would be easy pickings for Jason. Stuck upside down from a rope with no place to go.

 

 

I don't get why there are a handful of people clamoring for this. It would be fine to have traps that don't cause damage, but being stuck in them indefinitely isn't fun and takes away options for play. I could see a trap that lasted for 10 seconds, but shit, this "lasts until somebody lets you out, derp derp" thing just wouldn't work. 

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I hope they limit and reduce the number of traps for each Jason. I assume each Jason will have at least 1 trap, because if a Jason didn't have a trap a tryhard player would just not choose that Jason.

 

We need like 2 Jasons to have 1 trap each and no Jason having more than 4. I don't want this game to become a trap fest. I mean the traps are cool and I like them, but only 1 or 2 Jasons used traps right?

 

I think PART II Jason should have 4 traps. I do like the pocketknife idea, very cool. Will there be more pocketknifes spawning at the start? Or the same #? I'd stick with 1 extra or no more spawning.

 

Surviving Jason should be a somewhat rare thing. What was the survival % in the beta?

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Surviving Jason should be a somewhat rare thing. What was the survival % in the beta?

I'm not sure on a % but from when I played it varied. At the beta start it was a slaughter. No one really knew what they were doing and kinda learned as they played. Towards the end more people were making it out from learning from their mistakes. I guess it comes down to the Jason player. Usually a sackhead Jason slaughtered everyone because of play experience. Those that played the beta will have a definite leg up once the game releases.

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I don't get why there are a handful of people clamoring for this. It would be fine to have traps that don't cause damage, but being stuck in them indefinitely isn't fun and takes away options for play. I could see a trap that lasted for 10 seconds, but shit, this "lasts until somebody lets you out, derp derp" thing just wouldn't work. 

 

 

Agreed, bad idea.  Bad gameplay mechanics.  You don't punish players for deciding to play alone.  That ruins the fun of the game, and absolutely would hurt it.

You don't force a players hand like that... These days, freedom and open decision making is key, why ruin that by 

A:  Trapping a player and forcing them to be UNABLE to do anything with the game until they are helped.  Kills the mood and the fun.

B:  What if only 2 people are left and the second person never finds the other?

C:  What if you are alone?  Then what does the trap do, and how can you get out of it?

 

Questions that should be asked in your head first.

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I hope they limit and reduce the number of traps for each Jason. I assume each Jason will have at least 1 trap, because if a Jason didn't have a trap a tryhard player would just not choose that Jason.

 

We need like 2 Jasons to have 1 trap each and no Jason having more than 4. I don't want this game to become a trap fest. I mean the traps are cool and I like them, but only 1 or 2 Jasons used traps right?

 

I think PART II Jason should have 4 traps. I do like the pocketknife idea, very cool. Will there be more pocketknifes spawning at the start? Or the same #? I'd stick with 1 extra or no more spawning.

 

Surviving Jason should be a somewhat rare thing. What was the survival % in the beta?

I think each Jason should have at minimum two traps because if it's only one then the only place that trap is going is right in front of the phone box.

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There are already a good number of pocket knives that appear for players.

 

A: Not everyone's going to find a pocket knife, and not all of the drawers will ever be checked.   ;)

B: It IS a big sacrifice, that's the entire point.  The game is not here to "aid" counselor players.  In case you forgot.   ;)  It's survival horror. 

 

This is a game about fear and panic.  Having the counselors feel safe and almost guaranteed to have a pocket knife with every cabin they enter, is a big no-no.

 

Some of you that are commenting, are commenting based on ONE system that's going on, and nothing else.

You guys seem to forget, there are distractions and other things going on.. Between things like objectives, music, other counselors, and other things you just need to be patient for and WAIT ON... complaining about these traps in the fashion that you are (if you still are complaining or worrying), is ... well, ridiculous.

 

This game will not become another Dead by Daylight.  (That's the biggest worry it seems).  Trust me... it won't.

 

LISTEN TO ME NANCY.   Everything will be fiiiiiine.   Like wine.

 

 

The amount of chill Laphin has is contagious.

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