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Disarming Jason Traps

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I'm still a bit hesitant.

 

It seems like a big sacrifice still. It's better than just walking on the trap with no way to disarm it. But the amount of pocket knives should at least be equal to the amount of Bear Traps Jason has in order to keep things fair. I would also like using the knife on Jason as an option prompt rather than an automatic thing so we can strategize with it, though that isn't as big a deal to me.

 

We will see. I appreciate the change I was honestly a little bit afraid.

It shouldn't be "fair". Jason should have a leg up in just about every way.

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Jason should have the upper hand in a match at all times, so not sure disarming traps should be allowed. It absolutely shouldn't be allowed for all counselors. If the options going to be added, I do like the idea of it breaking your pocket knife.

 

 

Jason being OP is fun.

 

Jason being unbeatable or "inescapable" in this sense is not fun.  And that was what I was worried about in the last thread with the lack of disarm AND the ability to place the invulnerable trap near an objective.  IE right next to the car door or right in front of the phone.

 

Difficulty and fairness are two different things.  Something can be difficult but fair.

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That's a really fun idea Wes, but I think that it's a little weak on the immersion side.

Why would you spend so much effort on disarming when you could just spring it?

-Is it to break the trap permanently? No cause Jason couldn't replace it in the first place.

-Is it to disarm the trap silently? Well maybe, but then why don't I have the option to spring the trap loudly?

 

In my opinion the proper use of traps (for immersion sake) would be scattered in the forest, however from a strategic standpoint it would be better to put it on objectives, so people lose either a life, an objective, or a pocketknife with 100% certainty. I think this placement should be punished by making it either easy to disarm the trap or make the trap avoidable in a certain way.

 

I'd say keep the pocketknife idea in, but ad a way to walk on top of traps without springing them. This should be at a movement pace that is below crouch walking to prevent people from using it everywhere, but still giving people the option to bypass traps that are just not well hidden.

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That's a really fun idea Wes, but I think that it's a little weak on the immersion side.

Why would you spend so much effort on disarming when you could just spring it?

-Is it to break the trap permanently? No cause Jason couldn't replace it in the first place.

-Is it to disarm the trap silently? Well maybe, but then why don't I have the option to spring the trap loudly?

 

In my opinion the proper use of traps (for immersion sake) would be scattered in the forest, however from a strategic standpoint it would be better to put it on objectives, so people lose either a life, an objective, or a pocketknife with 100% certainty. I think this placement should be punished by making it either easy to disarm the trap or make the trap avoidable in a certain way.

 

I'd say keep the pocketknife idea in, but ad a way to walk on top of traps without springing them. This should be at a movement pace that is below crouch walking to prevent people from using it everywhere, but still giving people the option to bypass traps that are just not well hidden.

 

I agree, but now that we have a confirmed counter I'd like to see how this plays out.

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I agree with the general sentiment of this thread.  It won't stop Jason players from booby-trapping objectives, but at least there's some way to deal with it.

 

I see the ideal situation being a skill check to disarm the trap with the option of using a pocket knife for an auto-success.

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Gun/ Illfonic, you guys have been class all the way. Lord knows you've put up more griping about release then I would probably be able to handle. I plan on purchasing any game you folks make going forward....even if it's Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

 

-Randy Braden

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Definitely good news! Still a little dubious about mission objective placement of the traps getting spammed - but this is very welcome news.

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Sweet, I think this is a great improvement and am thrilled to see feedback and certainly give some of my own when the game comes out. The fact that you guys are engaged in your audience and want to make the game as fun and scary as possible and listen to us is fantastic. I'm excited for the game and to know it was made by such a dedicated and hardworking team of designers and engineers.

 

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Wes you are amazing for this thank you for these personal topics you write to us! This sounds like an amazing idea I cant see any flaws with this one and I really agree that the LUCK stat should be a factor with your knife breaking it gives the LUCK stat more of a purpose. Also I love the humor you have in your post thanks again for this update!

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I think your going to have it like fixing the lights or phone. how about have it if you mess up too much on fixing the trap. it will snap shut hurting/traping just as if you walked right in it in the first place. you also break your knife anytime you disable the trap like you said. also will it be easier and harder for different counselors

 

you have to think jason would have made his traps tamper proof with little chance of disarming it without getting hurt.

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If you stab J-dog with the knife, he isn't going to die. At least consuming the knife on the trap will permanently remove it from the game, that was Jason can't herd you back into it.

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You don't need special skill to disarm a bear trap, even a "special Jason" one; Jam a stick in it. Snap. Disarmed.

That's why the idea to stick a weapon in it to disarm it came up in the other thread. Anyone can do it and trading a weapon for disabling a trap is fair in my opinion.

 

EDIT: I didn't realize this thread was made by Wes! I thought it was a fan thread, so I'm sorry if this post came off as rude at all.

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Cheers, Wes (and everyone on the team).

 

I was willing to wait and see how the traps would work out in the game itself, but if you already have these ideas for disarming options, that's all to the good.

 

No matter how difficult something may be, just having it as a possibility adds to player agency and that's always a good deal.

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I love all of these ideas; from the pocketknife, to the luck affecting getting trapped, disarming the trap and not losing the knife; if luck should have it, to luck determining Jason being alerted.

 

This whole post makes me happy in the... machete.

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Hey. I just want to say I love you guys for making this game. There aren't that many things that make me super excited. But this is number one on my list. Thank you so much. You guys are like family. Keep up the good work!

=)

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You don't need special skill to disarm a bear trap, even a "special Jason" one; Jam a stick in it. Snap. Disarmed.

 

That's why the idea to stick a weapon in it to disarm it came up in the other thread. Anyone can do it and trading a weapon for disabling a trap is fair in my opinion.

 

I do like this idea, but obviously the weapon would then be broken an useless and it would absolutely get Jason's attention. Or maybe ONLY the stick/tree branch weapon can be used.

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Even with the pocket knife disarm should alert him it could work in councilor favor like find one have venessa sit by it then if jason gets close to like aj with gas just set it off to get him to teleport

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I don't like the setup as described. Pocket knives are too valuable -- basically nobody will ever disarm a trap, unless it's in a place Jason is using to grief people. (Phone box, phone, Jarvis radio, car door, etc.) If I were playing Jason, I'd spend the beginning of the game trapping those places, thereby reducing the number of pocket knives I have to face by a predictable amount.

I'd rather the player have *choices* about how they disarm a trap -- and they can pick between them if they need to:

1. Spring trap with weapon. Instant removal of trap. Loud, and Jason is instantly alerted to where it happens. Counselor loses weapon.

2. Skill check like phone box, car, etc. Slow/time-consuming. Character does not need any object/resource to do this. Silent when successful. On failure, it alerts Jason, and causes damage to player. (Smart characters will be good for this, or people with dumb characters but think they're good at QTEs.)
3. Sacrifice pocket knife. Fast, silent, 100% success rate, but you lose the knife (most valuable consumable in game!).

 

The key here is that all three methods would be available, but each has pros and cons.

In this way the player would have to balance the pros and cons of each method. If you REALLY needed to get to that phone box in a hurry, silently, I might burn the knife... but if someone on the walkie talkie just told me that Jason was chasing them, I might choose to do the skill check instead if I'm paying a slow-but-smart character. Or I might choose to spring the trap with a 2x4 if I have a dumb-but-fast character, taking the gamble that Jason will stay distracted by the other player, or that I can run if he shows up.

 

This would make the traps *way* more dynamic in how I deal with them, and I can decide just how important that pocket knife is to me. It makes trapping multiple locations more meaningful because there is a grey scale of cost/benefit rather than a black and white knifeworthy-or-not-knifeworthy analysis.

(Edit: None of these ways make Jason any less powerful -- and it's not about making counselors more powerful. Instead it's about increasing the dynamic nature of the game. If you only implement the knife-or-nothing approach as described in the original post, all you get is traps that nobody will disarm, or traps in a few very specific places that people will *always* have to disarm and lose a pocket knife, essentially meaning that Jason will only ever trap those 4-5 exact locations because he knows 100% it will make the pocket knife go away, and never trap any other locations because he knows that players will never try to disarm it if it means using a pocket knife. He might trap some hard-to-see high-traffic places that could catch an unwary counselor, but that would be wasting a trap that could be used to get rid of a pocket knife in one of the must-disarm locations.)

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Even with the pocket knife disarm should alert him it could work in councilor favor like find one have venessa sit by it then if jason gets close to like aj with gas just set it off to get him to teleport

Why would he give up on chasing someone who is obviously hindered (slowed from carrying the gas can)? He'd sooner kill the person who has the gas, forcing them to drop it. Probably even set a trap on it afterwards just to make sure he can catch the next person who tries to get it.

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I think is kinda tough to use a mechanic that is completely randomly generated. I am sure you can start with a pocket knife depending on how you set traits or skills as you level up.  But I still think Jason's trap are too valuable to him since they are a non-regenerative resource. You could go thru several matches and never find one pocket knife. Now you have created a mechanic that can not be utilized except by chance. 

 

I go back to my original statement. If you can disable Jason's Traps he should be able to recover them.  Plus you cannot assume a camper in a trap is going to be an easy kill. What if they set off the trap, get grabbed by Jason, then use a pocket knife to high tail out of there. You are basically doing the same thing as disarming it. Especially since you have an advantage at getting away with speed and possible JUKE ABILITY DUN DUN DUN!

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Why would he give up on chasing someone who is obviously hindered (slowed from carrying the gas can)? He'd sooner kill the person who has the gas, forcing them to drop it. Probably even set a trap on it afterwards just to make sure he can catch the next person who tries to get it.

 

If I were Jason (under the rules described in original post) I would only trap important places (like the phone box). The phone box is Jason's #1 weakness because it is the only means of EVERY counselor escaping. If I knew my phone box trap had just been disarmed, there's a good chance I would drop whatever pursuit I was doing (unless it was an escaping car) and immediately morph to the phone box to stop whoever was there.

 

I can always go back and kill the person I was originally chasing later, but if the cops get called then everyone else could potentially get away.

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Sounds good, Wes. I  would also consider making it a skill check type thing too. Fail the check and get caught in the trap. :)

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