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If nothing else, reading this thread has further confirmed my belief that if people put half as much effort into improving their own gameplay as they do finding ways to be cheating little cocksuckers, we wouldn't need to patch exploits/hacks/glitches. 

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Eh, Combat Stance was a clunky mess from start to finish. Never really fine tuned, stupid lock on feature, etc. Not sure what the intent ever was to begin with other than to water down the game into a glorified button mash simulator where actual fighting games (ones meant to be fighting games too) past and present, did it much better.

My guess is Illfonic were either too lazy or too cute in their control design. Rather than just have block and perhaps a heavy attack as standalone buttons, along with perhaps a target indicator for crowds. They decided to introduce an entirely new,  bloated scheme with the combat stance to justify making block its own thing. Its almost as if despite the heavy pre launch bravado of Jason only being killed a rarity in playtesting that they knew the playerbase would mostly devolve the game into Mario Kart races to kill Jason, with everything else becoming second fiddle.

That said, combat stance was valuable early in the game's life before they started fucking around with the windows/invisible shields, etc. Other than that, I've never felt it was polished or something that was a good design choice to begin with.

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On 3/26/2021 at 11:18 PM, Tommy86 said:

If the upcoming, final patch still has any noticeable CS delay then that will be really unfortunate. I’m not sure it’s even worth explaining why at this stage, but I might as well if there’s any chance it has some bearing. I post here once in a blue moon so I’ll just lay it all out on this topic.

Let’s acknowledge the fact that the CS change was an attempt to remove sliding, based on a lack of info on how it actually works. A few of us all shed light on it in a thread post-patch so you could forward it to the devs, and the main point was to show how a delay on CS exit has zero relation to sliding at all. Some possible solutions to patching it out were explored too. 

But that aside, I’ll assume for a moment there’s a bunch of other exploits the delay was also meant to patch. In case it isn’t known, Illfonic already implemented a minor delay for CS years ago, to remove certain things that specifically relied on simultaneous entry/exit of CS. While their methods were imperfect, the result was far less intrusive and to date, those exploits have not returned. In other words, they nullified the CS + Sprint inputs which is exactly what the new delay also targets - trying to fix a problem that was already solved. Years ago.

In regards to existing exploits, I can say with certainty that the new delay fixes nothing / has no relation to anything I am aware of (and I’m aware of the majority). It is however directly responsible for creating new ones such as (yet another) infinite stamina method that is so easily performed it puts sliding to shame. The irony is just incredible.

But the biggest problem is the degradation of basic input functionality, and it can very much be felt by any player but especially competitive. While certain tactics preceded by block are still possible, it entirely depends on whether you accounted for the delay prior to an action out of CS or not. If not, then no instant punish allowed. At the end of the day, no amount of adapting is going to change the fact that an input working flawlessly for almost 4 years is now simply not responding for half a second. Many including myself would say that is entirely unacceptable. And the worst part is that it‘s for absolutely nothing.

Given that dev support is coming to an end, I still don’t understand why this would seem like a good time to gamble on patching out some tired old exploit and hoping there’s no consequences. My opinion is the mechanics should’ve been left well enough alone instead of introducing new problems that will never be fixed. Many would say just revert to last patch, but I know that’s not the way it works. I don’t expect this post to make any difference, but I can say I made an effort at least.

 

On 3/27/2021 at 6:14 AM, GeneiJin said:

@Tommy86 Thank you for the detailed information regarding CS as a mechanic.   Its still upsetting for me, since the "depth" of the combat of this game relies on it.  It's was the motivating drive for me to keep playing at mastering it for all situations (not counting the really broken stuff).  Both sides using it bring more complexity that would be otherwise just "slings" at each other.

They should have never touched Combat Stance :sadchappa:

I don't want you folks to think that the info from that discussion was passed on. We took that to the team, they evaluated and the upcoming patch reflects those notes. I said it then and I'll say it now, we really appreciate the detail provided there.

Using the methods that came to light from that discussion, as well as others across Discord, socials, and so on, the team is confident we have sliding as minimized as possible without dramatic changes to how the game will feel for players. I use the term "minimized" because again, ping is always a factor at some level in these types of bugs. Ultimately, sliding is part animation bug and part discrepancy between what you see and what the lobby or server sees (back when servers were active, now it's the host and connected players).

The resulting changes are much more in line with how the game felt pre-patch. But I need to temper that line of discussion otherwise we'll have people thinking it was a 100% revert to the last patch. And it wasn't. We didn't start the steaks all over, we tossed em back into the oven.

I don't want to over promise and then potentially under deliver, but I think you will be very happy with this latest iteration, as any delay has been minimized to it's lowest point, while still protecting game play, and sliding could not be recreated by our team at Gun and our testing partners, even with the detailed method described by yourselves in that previous thread.

As for why we even touched sliding, you have to have some perspective on the scope of our community at this point. While it can seem like no big deal to you, there are a wide variety of players and there will continue to be a wide variety of players in game. New people pick it up every day, some play for fun, some get competitive, etc. The amount of strain on the community due to sliding is evident in reports to the support site, conversations across all of our official channels, and so on. Just like any change made to our game, we need to try and cover every potential sub-category of the greater community while making these changes.

All that said, I want y'all to know I speak for the casual community and the competitive community in these discussions. I do my absolute best to stress the importance of weighing ALL player types when evaluating potential changes. But in the end, both sides need to give a little to meet in the middle. Yes, that leaves me in a position where no one group is particularly happy with me. LOL. But that's the gig. Some day over beers I'll tell you about The Division community and the "Division Dads" drama. Community Management is a tightrope.

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I found a video explaining these modded lobbies. On PC they would have multiple Jasons or everyone respawning in as Tommy Jarvis. Uncapped player count makes me wish there was a spectator mode because in tournament play they would usually have 6 counselors one spectator. Makes me wonder how other game modes could've been implemented with more players. 

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6 hours ago, ExpertDual said:

I found a video explaining these modded lobbies. On PC they would have multiple Jasons or everyone respawning in as Tommy Jarvis. Uncapped player count makes me wish there was a spectator mode because in tournament play they would usually have 6 counselors one spectator. Makes me wonder how other game modes could've been implemented with more players. 

Yeah well Xbox and regular Ps4 barely work with a full lobby now. Could you imagine hosting Pack large with 20 players on Xbox? Your frame rate would be 1...😂😂😂

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On 3/29/2021 at 5:41 PM, mattshotcha said:

 

I don't want you folks to think that the info from that discussion was passed on. We took that to the team, they evaluated and the upcoming patch reflects those notes. I said it then and I'll say it now, we really appreciate the detail provided there.

Using the methods that came to light from that discussion, as well as others across Discord, socials, and so on, the team is confident we have sliding as minimized as possible without dramatic changes to how the game will feel for players. I use the term "minimized" because again, ping is always a factor at some level in these types of bugs. Ultimately, sliding is part animation bug and part discrepancy between what you see and what the lobby or server sees (back when servers were active, now it's the host and connected players).

The resulting changes are much more in line with how the game felt pre-patch. But I need to temper that line of discussion otherwise we'll have people thinking it was a 100% revert to the last patch. And it wasn't. We didn't start the steaks all over, we tossed em back into the oven.

I don't want to over promise and then potentially under deliver, but I think you will be very happy with this latest iteration, as any delay has been minimized to it's lowest point, while still protecting game play, and sliding could not be recreated by our team at Gun and our testing partners, even with the detailed method described by yourselves in that previous thread.

As for why we even touched sliding, you have to have some perspective on the scope of our community at this point. While it can seem like no big deal to you, there are a wide variety of players and there will continue to be a wide variety of players in game. New people pick it up every day, some play for fun, some get competitive, etc. The amount of strain on the community due to sliding is evident in reports to the support site, conversations across all of our official channels, and so on. Just like any change made to our game, we need to try and cover every potential sub-category of the greater community while making these changes.

All that said, I want y'all to know I speak for the casual community and the competitive community in these discussions. I do my absolute best to stress the importance of weighing ALL player types when evaluating potential changes. But in the end, both sides need to give a little to meet in the middle. Yes, that leaves me in a position where no one group is particularly happy with me. LOL. But that's the gig. Some day over beers I'll tell you about The Division community and the "Division Dads" drama. Community Management is a tightrope.

We will miss the dedicated servers...

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On 3/29/2021 at 7:41 AM, mattshotcha said:

I don't want you folks to think that the info from that discussion was passed on. We took that to the team, they evaluated and the upcoming patch reflects those notes. I said it then and I'll say it now, we really appreciate the detail provided there.

Using the methods that came to light from that discussion, as well as others across Discord, socials, and so on, the team is confident we have sliding as minimized as possible without dramatic changes to how the game will feel for players. I use the term "minimized" because again, ping is always a factor at some level in these types of bugs. Ultimately, sliding is part animation bug and part discrepancy between what you see and what the lobby or server sees (back when servers were active, now it's the host and connected players).

 

I want to first make it clear that I'm not being critical for the sake of being a Jerk, but just like many players like me here, is very passionate about this game.  At this game's timeline, trying to tackle bugs like sliding is moot, and this upcoming "final FINAL" patch is proof that trying may cause consequence to game, intended and unintended.  Sliding is hard to do, so outside of macros or 3rd party adapters, most players won't have to deal with it.  At the cost of breaking or making it less usable for players, so it's questionable about trying to do something about it, when it's the final patch,   Besides, on PC, sliding exploiters are the least of our problem lol :P 

I know you said  "minimized as possible without dramatic changes to how the game will feel for players", but who's experience are you drawing from when you say  "minimized as possible"?  I have over 4000 hours in this game, some players have even more from me; I highly doubt anybody working on updates has anything close in gameplay or even testing hours.  They may spend some time testing to make sure "that it works", but testing is not the same as playing.  That's why the CS lag wasn't thought of as a problem when Nov's Patch went public, that is until we started to bitch about it.  Likely the devs did not understand how this would effect play, for seasoned players.  CS may "work"  but the lag breaks many of its utility and tactics which is especially frustrating for players when It has always worked fine before (also like off-host Instant Block before the Engine update), making the gameplay experience clunker and less responsive (for a game where 1 wrong move will get you killed).

Here is an example of using Combat Stance as a "faint" prior to Nov's patch.  This is no longer possible since you can not exit CS quickly thanks to the added lag, and it's an important technique to counselor play since it can dull the Jason player's reactions or bait him into a wiffed attack.  CS lag also affects Jason play as well.   I really hope that when the patch drops, there is no lag at all.

 

 

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Let's hope this "final" final patch can leave the game a tiny bit better off than it is now.

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I just hope that whatever GunMedia's next venture is, they don't utilise Easy Anti Cheat. Clearly its CRAP! I was fortunate enough the other day to have found a normal lobby, had a couple of decent matches, So they do exist, guess we have to be patient!

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EAC from my understanding isn't designed to catch anything in the games files as far as actual manipulation of the game files which is what the hackers are doing. It only detects outside influences like trainers, Cheat Engine ,lag switching programs ,things of that nature but  you are correct it's crap.DBD also uses EAC and they still get hacked but the difference there is they have a very good dev and support team to catch hackers relatively quickly and are quick to ban people.If anyone can shed more light or if I'm incorrect please feel free to correct me.

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4 hours ago, Mayday said:

Well it was only a matter of time I suppose before the hackers caught onto how the playerbase was trying to avoid these servers. I haven't encountered this yet, but if this is true, then it seems RIP PC version.

@mattshotcha

Any further info?

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21 minutes ago, tyrant666 said:

Well it was only a matter of time I suppose before the hackers caught onto how the playerbase was trying to avoid these servers. I haven't encountered this yet, but if this is true, then it seems RIP PC version.

@mattshotcha

Any further info?

I don't have anything further on it at this time, but I will forward the info on to the team again.

Please do let me know if more of you experience this repeat matching or not. I would like to gather up as much info as possible, including regions and such. It's worthwhile to rule out low player volume at the time of matchmaking or in that region, etc.

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18 minutes ago, mattshotcha said:

I don't have anything further on it at this time, but I will forward the info on to the team again.

Please do let me know if more of you experience this repeat matching or not. I would like to gather up as much info as possible, including regions and such. It's worthwhile to rule out low player volume at the time of matchmaking or in that region, etc.

Yea this game is absolutely unplayable on pc as of today. The hacker lobbies have taken the rest of the player base. I’m in the Pacific Northwest. I got online to play some matches today and got sucked into a non-avoidable never-ending hacked lobby where even if I left, I return to the menu and try to load into another match I’d get sucked right back into the same lobby over and over again. I guess this is the official end. I guess I’ll never play this game again and my 20 bucks is wasted. Oh well, you guys don’t care, I guess I don’t neither. 

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40 minutes ago, wall2211 said:

Yea this game is absolutely unplayable on pc as of today. The hacker lobbies have taken the rest of the player base. I’m in the Pacific Northwest. I got online to play some matches today and got sucked into a non-avoidable never-ending hacked lobby where even if I left, I return to the menu and try to load into another match I’d get sucked right back into the same lobby over and over again. I guess this is the official end. I guess I’ll never play this game again and my 20 bucks is wasted. Oh well, you guys don’t care, I guess I don’t neither. 

For a first post, you're comin' in awful hot.

If you back out of a match, it's best to give it some time before searching again, otherwise there is a high likelihood you'll land back in the same lobby, hacked lobby or not.

That being said, thanks for providing details on location. I'll get it over to the team with the rest of the info.

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It's past the tipping point now to where it's not playable on PC. I keep getting thrown into a loaded hacked match every time I try quickplay. This needs to be fixed otherwise they should no longer be allowed to sell the PC version.

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1 hour ago, mattshotcha said:

For a first post, you're comin' in awful hot.

If you back out of a match, it's best to give it some time before searching again, otherwise there is a high likelihood you'll land back in the same lobby, hacked lobby or not.

That being said, thanks for providing details on location. I'll get it over to the team with the rest of the info.

Doesnt matter whether it’s my first post or not. I attribute that to me sucking up all the bs I’ve been through with this game since launch and me sticking with you guys keeping faith and keeping quiet. I’ve been playing the game since release. I’m not here to kiss ass or be your friend. I borderline feel what’s going on should be illegal. People spending their money on your product and it’s been basically completely abandoned and issues like this where people literally can’t play the game as it was intended and you come here basically saying in past posts that it’s not of concern right now because of the stage at which the game is is a very piss poor response from a developer. I’m just stating facts. Not trying to be hot headed or anything but this issue of hacked lobbies where people literally can’t play the game the intended way anymore and hackers taking over the entire game is total bs. Take that how you will.

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Welp I can also confirm what everybody else has mentioned so far.

Basically no escape now from these servers as they've figured out a way to keep redirecting people right back in.

 

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2 hours ago, wall2211 said:

Doesnt matter whether it’s my first post or not. I attribute that to me sucking up all the bs I’ve been through with this game since launch and me sticking with you guys keeping faith and keeping quiet. I’ve been playing the game since release. I’m not here to kiss ass or be your friend. I borderline feel what’s going on should be illegal. People spending their money on your product and it’s been basically completely abandoned and issues like this where people literally can’t play the game as it was intended and you come here basically saying in past posts that it’s not of concern right now because of the stage at which the game is is a very piss poor response from a developer. I’m just stating facts. Not trying to be hot headed or anything but this issue of hacked lobbies where people literally can’t play the game the intended way anymore and hackers taking over the entire game is total bs. Take that how you will.

I understand that you're aggravated and frustrated. And I'm not asking anyone to kiss ass, but you will have to maintain some level of civility in here. And putting words in my mouth is not the way. I never said we "didn't care" and you know that. Saying "basically abandoned" and "basically saying" is not "just stating facts." As I said I know the situation is frustrating, but trying to stoke the fires is not going to do anyone any good.

1 hour ago, tyrant666 said:

Welp I can also confirm what everybody else has mentioned so far.

Basically no escape now from these servers as they've figured out a way to keep redirecting people right back in.

 

I don't think that they've done something to force folks back into the lobby. I think we're more likely seeing it become more and more prevalent.

But again, I can't really do anything more than speculate until the team has a chance to look things over.

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33 minutes ago, mattshotcha said:

I understand that you're aggravated and frustrated. And I'm not asking anyone to kiss ass, but you will have to maintain some level of civility in here. And putting words in my mouth is not the way. I never said we "didn't care" and you know that. Saying "basically abandoned" and "basically saying" is not "just stating facts." As I said I know the situation is frustrating, but trying to stoke the fires is not going to do anyone any good.

I don't think that they've done something to force folks back into the lobby. I think we're more likely seeing it become more and more prevalent.

But again, I can't really do anything more than speculate until the team has a chance to look things over.

You think wrong, your highnesses....they’ve literally found a way to force people directly back into the same hacked lobby.

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wall2211 is 100% correct it is totally unplayable now online. You can't avoid a modded lobby now.You leave and you just get put back in with a character you didn't have selected it's usually Chad or Shelly. I can provide the Steam profile of the person who boasts that he created these "Servers" if you need it.Problem is he claims he is using a 30$ spoofing program to hide his true account. If he can be traced down he definitely needs a HWID ban.

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1 hour ago, TimDuke 01 said:

wall2211 is 100% correct it is totally unplayable now online. You can't avoid a modded lobby now.You leave and you just get put back in with a character you didn't have selected it's usually Chad or Shelly. I can provide the Steam profile of the person who boasts that he created these "Servers" if you need it.Problem is he claims he is using a 30$ spoofing program to hide his true account. If he can be traced down he definitely needs a HWID ban.

If you have information on the subject, send it in to JasonKillsBugs.com 

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8 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

If you have information on the subject, send it in to JasonKillsBugs.com 

I have no video evidence to prove anything does that matter?All I can provide is the person's Steam URL. On top of that he is just claiming this stuff he could be full of BS but I know he is capable of hacking.I'm following him on Steam to keep track of his gamer tag as he changes it often.

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Le seul match normal que j'ai eu de "France" était avec 3 Savini craqués et j'ai obtenu 33 000 xp à la fin du match. 😐

Dès que vous vous connectez, vous rejoignez un match piraté déjà en cours. 

EDIT Edit: And the 2nd lobby that I found the host was using a trainer. 👌

I have tested almost all download regions and it is only in China that the lobbies is not hacked. BUT I don't recommend going at all 😱

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