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Tommy86's Combat Stance Change Notes

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1 hour ago, Somethin Cool said:

Yeah I didn't want to include any options other than fixing whatever is wrong with swing+block, but just put them in as a last resort. Anything is better than the current combat stance delay. To be completely honest it's disgusting on host as well as off, for both counselors and Jason. It just needs to go.

Yeah it is an option as a last resort. And even though I believe swing + block change is the way to go, I still have my doubts about it all. Reason being is that although those inputs appear to be physically pressed simultaneously, they are not always read simultaneously but they activate anyway eg. swing > delay > block > delay etc. given a close enough time frame in the milliseconds (tested with input reading device). Which is not the case for all glitches.

Since lag increases the amount of time those inputs can “blend” together so to speak, it is possible it would still exist at higher ping or able to be executed with macros. To definitely remove it, you would need something like we have for the CS change, a substantial window of time where the other input will 100% not register however you potentially run the risk of side effects at higher ping. Perhaps block cancel on hit will be affected, perhaps block slash. Who knows, but the CS + abilities lock up is already an example of that. These are worst case scenarios but maybe worth mentioning.

In all honesty CS needed a hard re-work but at this point of course it is far too late. If sliding can be patched without side effects then great, but I personally think players can live with nothing further getting patched out - as long as CS is restored, if not to pre-engine update performance then at least to pre-patch performance. Good, responsive controls are priority because without that it simply becomes a burden to play.

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2 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

should address the 3rd option which is stamina depletion during swing. While I respect GeneiJin I must disagree with him on this one since it basically falls into what I’ve said above, modifying a base element of gameplay to rectify an exploit that only a fraction of players use. Something like this would impact stamina management in combat as it would be a penalty for non-contact, therefore it seems excessive to me.

Nice detailed explanation.  I think you are confused what I suggest with what @Somethin Cool, which he suggested to add a stamina cost for swing.  I just commented on his since I recognized this as being a nerf to counselors game-play.  What I suggested is removing the stamina lock that occurs during the swing animation, but of course without looking at the spaghetti code, I wouldn't know if this is possible or what it possibly might break.  My best guess is the reason for the stamina lock during swings is the game checking for that contact hit on Jason, then updates the stamina value to apply the stamina bonus.  Personally, as you said, I'd rather they just leave CS alone, prior to the last patch.  We have gone this long with sliding remaining, most dedicated players will form groups to avoid hosts leaving for consistent gaming and would easy to place "house rules" on the lobby everyone can agree to.

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16 minutes ago, GeneiJin said:

Nice detailed explanation.  I think you are confused what I suggest with what @Somethin Cool, which he suggested to add a stamina cost for swing.  I just commented on his since I recognized this as being a nerf to counselors game-play.  What I suggested is removing the stamina lock that occurs during the swing animation, but of course without looking at the spaghetti code, I wouldn't know if this is possible or what it possibly might break.  My best guess is the reason for the stamina lock during swings is the game checking for that contact hit on Jason, then updates the stamina value to apply the stamina bonus.  Personally, as you said, I'd rather they just leave CS alone, prior to the last patch.  We have gone this long with sliding remaining, most dedicated players will form groups to avoid hosts leaving for consistent gaming and would easy to place "house rules" on the lobby everyone can agree to.

Ah sorry about that, I probably read through it all too quickly. I do agree it is a nerf to counselor gameplay, hard to say whether it’s substantial in practice but I’m cautious towards it.

Also agree that what will happen is more and more players forming groups, now that host quitting is back with P2P. Or competitive circles that enforce rules and that is essentially the last bastion long after developer support ends. It is all pretty “play by the book” with the exception of special tourneys where anything goes. But all in all I think the remaining player base will be self enforcing. 

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2 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

Nice detailed explanation.  I think you are confused what I suggest with what @Somethin Cool, which he suggested to add a stamina cost for swing.  I just commented on his since I recognized this as being a nerf to counselors game-play. 

I was just trying to explain that the "stamina freeze" that you're talking about is just because stamina doesn't drain when you swing your weapon. Regardless of glitching or not. That is your stamina freeze. And the only way to fix that, as you suggested, would be to make it so that stamina did drain when you swing your weapon. Which is 100% a nerf to counselors. And definitely not a good idea.

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1 minute ago, Somethin Cool said:

I was just trying to explain that the "stamina freeze" that you're talking about is just because stamina doesn't drain when you swing your weapon. Regardless of glitching or not. That is your stamina freeze. And the only way to fix that, as you suggested, would be to make it so that stamina did drain when you swing your weapon. Which is 100% a nerf to counselors. And definitely not a good idea.

I guess I didn't literate well, since thats not what I was suggesting,  I was only saying to when counselors slide, removing the lock would cause the sprint to use stamina during it.  Not swings draining stamina in general.

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A lot more great info to share here.

I've worked on more than a few games at this point in my career and one thing that is a constant: Multiple inputs registering at once, or even too close together, causes unintended effects.

When those inputs can register while an animation is ongoing, it makes even more potential for issues, like trap bypass for example. 

That all said, the team will dig into this. I have to give them time to do their investigation based off what we've sent over. I'll keep the community up to date as soon as I have more and we can hopefully continue this discourse then. I may reach out via PM to some of y'all. Many, many thanks.

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Well it's interesting to see more stuff being worked on despite the "last" patch dropping. Or am I misinterpreting things? I thought the game would be stuck at whatever state it is in now forever due to end of support for the game.

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10 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Well it's interesting to see more stuff being worked on despite the "last" patch dropping. Or am I misinterpreting things? I thought the game would be stuck at whatever state it is in now forever due to end of support for the game.

No, we're still talking last patch. This iteration process is still a part of that last patch as we'll be building off that regardless. When we released the patch we assured players it wouldn't be released and then the team runs from the project, we needed to allow some room for potential issues, emergencies, etc.

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I say we just report any and all known glitches to JKB because a game without numerous bugs/glitches will benefit our community more than anything.

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No hay manera de que al juego se le cambie el nombre como "La venganza de Jarvis" o algo así, quitar toda referencia al nombre "Jason Voorhees", quitar la cabeza de la mamá y cosas así para que el litigio Miller no tenga que ver con el juego?

Hay manera de que consideren que el host siempre sea el Jason? Muchos jugadores salen de la partida cuando no les toca ser Jason y eso fastidia mucho, muchos jugadores cuando los matan, salen de la partida siendo host y eso fastidia el juego, sería bueno considerar que al que le toque ser Jason, sea el host 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ivampire said:

There's no way the game is going to be renamed "Jarvis's Revenge" or something like that, remove all references to the name "Jason Voorhees," take off the mommy's head, and so forth so that the Miller litigation doesn't have to do with the game? Is there any way they consider the host to always be Jason? Many players leave the game when it is not their turn to be Jason and that annoys a lot, many players when they are killed, leave the game as a host and that annoys the game, it would be good to consider that the one who has to be Jason, is the host

 

I translated this for other users but um....no that's not how this works my man.

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7 hours ago, Jason Todd Voorhees said:

I say we just report any and all known glitches to JKB because a game without numerous bugs/glitches will benefit our community more than anything.

Little late for that. This is just a brainstorming session so that they can hopefully actually patch out sliding without negatively effecting combat mechanics. This will be more of a hot fix to the current patch. There will be no new patches.

 

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To speak on the topic of abductions, what i have found is when using abductions involving CS it would seem to be resolved for the moment. That being said abductions involving the use of an x prompt remain active ie water, and any hiding spot kills. Sliding and knife cancel tech can still be done either the old way with a bit of timing, concerning sliding or a new button combo for quick knife tech. Big weapons are back again, double tap can be done without the use of environmental hitboxes, using a method similar to counselor sliding, which has the added result in that a walker can run or at least its possible for pt 6 to briefly display what looks like the jog animation for pt 3. Abductions can still be landed on a boat providing you shift over it and time the inputs to take the map cancel/ CS delay into account as well as a non water Jason can exploit the hitbox of the boat to keep pace with it, love the game and have nothing but respect towards my fellow peers and the game as a whole. T.M.

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On 11/13/2020 at 8:46 PM, Somethin Cool said:

Little late for that. This is just a brainstorming session so that they can hopefully actually patch out sliding without negatively effecting combat mechanics. This will be more of a hot fix to the current patch. There will be no new patches.

 

😔

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