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Tech or Cheat?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think things like the Speed Shift or Ghosting are?

    • Techs
      8
    • Cheats
      26


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6 hours ago, Carlso said:

Good Jasons destroy noob lobbies, but cheater Jasons using exploits and denying PKs simply annihilates noobs.

Denying pks? So slashing is cheating now? Let me guess, every time you're outplayed in a lobby the Jason is automatically cheating, right?

If a pub lobby gets wiped out in the first few minutes of the match it probably doesn't have anything to do with the Jason. 99 percent of pub players don't play very well. They don't effectively use teamwork. Or communication. Usually they either all rush Jason trying to get the mask, crowd up at the only objective being worked on, or they all hide out in the same cabin beating each other with bats. All of those things would end up getting them all slashed to death by even a half assed decent J.

I play pubs all the time and rarely ever run into a player that knows how to do any tech, counselor or Jason. I honestly wish I did run into them more often. It's a lot more fun playing with a group that knows what they're doing. The average pub lobby is like watching monkeys trying to fuck a football to be completely honest.

 

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They need to patch out exploits.  If you use any glitch to gain an advantage,  you're a cheater no matter what side you play on.

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18 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

Denying pks? So slashing is cheating now?

He was using abduction... that's what I meant...

 

20 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

Let me guess, every time you're outplayed in a lobby the Jason is automatically cheating, right?

No. He was using cheats. He SAID he was using cheats. 

Btw he also uses cheats as a counselor. I frequently encounter that same guy on pub lobbies and people frequently complain about him using cheats/exploits. Besides all that he LIKES to use cheats to unmask and kill noob Jasons, tell them they are trash etc. I don't have problems with him, because I know what exploits he uses, so I just tunnel him and slash him every single match, but I already had to watch Jasons bellow lvl 50 grabbing him and receiving a PK to the neck for the 5252435th time.

He uses cheats and exploits with the intention of humiliating and trolling inexperienced players. This is obviously not ok.

 

21 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

If a pub lobby gets wiped out in the first few minutes of the match it probably doesn't have anything to do with the Jason. 99 percent of pub players don't play very well. They don't effectively use teamwork. Or communication. Usually they either all rush Jason trying to get the mask, crowd up at the only objective being worked on, or they all hide out in the same cabin beating each other with bats. All of those things would end up getting them all slashed to death by even a half assed decent J.

 

Dude that was the whole point of my comment. If decent Jason smashes noobs, imagine decent Jason that uses cheats. 6 people dying under 2 minutes is not normal, even for pub lobbies standards.

 

I don't care if devs will patch those cheats or not, I would just like if people agreed that using cheats on pub lobbies is wrong. Even if there are players who play this game for a long time, most of them, according to the poll, don't appreciate it when someone uses cheats on their matches, myself included.

Yes, sometimes counselors outplay you. Sometimes you'll face a party full of experienced players. I definitively don't need cheats to beat experienced counselors/Jasons, but I sincerely rather let them kill me than having to rely on cheats to win.  

Play whatever you want on private lobbies, but using cheats on pub lobbies is selfish. It is one of the reasons why people leave this game.

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1 hour ago, Somethin Cool said:

Denying pks? So slashing is cheating now? Let me guess, every time you're outplayed in a lobby the Jason is automatically cheating, right?

If a pub lobby gets wiped out in the first few minutes of the match it probably doesn't have anything to do with the Jason. 99 percent of pub players don't play very well. They don't effectively use teamwork. Or communication. Usually they either all rush Jason trying to get the mask, crowd up at the only objective being worked on, or they all hide out in the same cabin beating each other with bats. All of those things would end up getting them all slashed to death by even a half assed decent J.

I play pubs all the time and rarely ever run into a player that knows how to do any tech, counselor or Jason. I honestly wish I did run into them more often. It's a lot more fun playing with a group that knows what they're doing. The average pub lobby is like watching monkeys trying to fuck a football to be completely honest.

 

idk why anyone is arguing with you. Pub players basically ignore the actual point of the game mostly. I fucking love when I'm Jason and someone quick sprays in front of me, because I know I'll finally have some competition. (Not even trying to big talk either, I'm ass against actually tourney or league players).

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When I get time, to enjoy some time off to play, I can’t stop playing. Yes, certain issues annoyed me. Hacks, server issues..it’s not the best situation. They got hacked and are trying to correct that. Now, I’m happy just being able to play, with the dedicated servers still running! Enjoy that! It might not last that long. Enjoy everything, while you still can.

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14 minutes ago, Carlso said:

 

I don't care if devs will patch those cheats or not, I would just like if people agreed that using cheats on pub lobbies is wrong. Even if there are players who play this game for a long time, most of them, according to the poll, don't appreciate it when someone uses cheats on their matches, myself included.

Yes, sometimes counselors outplay you. Sometimes you'll face a party full of experienced players. I definitively don't need cheats to beat experienced counselors/Jasons, but I sincerely rather let them kill me than having to rely on cheats to win.  

Play whatever you want on private lobbies, but using cheats on pub lobbies is selfish. It is one of the reasons why people leave this game.

Right on. Debating on whether or not these techniques are cheats or not is a valid argument, it was the *original* intention of the thread. I'm sorry but the argument that it's okay to use these *techniques* in a pub lobby because it's allowed in tournament/league play or whatever the hell is the stupidest argument I've heard. Tournament play and Public play have *nothing* to do with each other. Using it as an excuse to justify cheating is just lame. If you're good enough to play at the Tournament/League level, why the hell do you need to use your tech in a pub lobby? I'd figure you wouldn't need it, or are you just so reliant on it now you can't play for shit otherwise? I understand when you're playing at the highest level in a tourney and you need all the help you can get, but again, like it's been said a few times in this thread, most pub lobbies aren't good enough that you need to be resorting to this type of shit. I certainly don't need too, and this is coming from a weirdo who likes going up against cheaters and exploiters because I like the challenge, but I don't expect some level 12 newbie to feel the same way when he runs into a Ghosting Jason. Arguing about whether this junk are cheats or tech all you want, but the weak excuses to justify them are just lame.

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8 minutes ago, I'm Not a Goalie said:

 

Right on. Debating on whether or not these techniques are cheats or not is a valid argument, it was the *original* intention of the thread. I'm sorry but the argument that it's okay to use these *techniques* in a pub lobby because it's allowed in tournament/league play or whatever the hell is the stupidest argument I've heard. Tournament play and Public play have *nothing* to do with each other. Using it as an excuse to justify cheating is just lame. If you're good enough to play at the Tournament/League level, why the hell do you need to use your tech in a pub lobby? I'd figure you wouldn't need it, or are you just so reliant on it now you can't play for shit otherwise? I understand when you're playing at the highest level in a tourney and you need all the help you can get, but again, like it's been said a few times in this thread, most pub lobbies aren't good enough that you need to be resorting to this type of shit. I certainly don't need too, and this is coming from a weirdo who likes going up against cheaters and exploiters because I like the challenge, but I don't expect some level 12 newbie to feel the same way when he runs into a Ghosting Jason. Arguing about whether this junk are cheats or tech all you want, but the weak excuses to justify them are just lame.

Considering this is mostly countering things I was arguing without mentioning me, I guess I'd just reiterate that it isn't too hard to find a new lobby, and most J's/Counselors don't actually know most of these techs anyways. It isn't a persistent problem in every lobby, and some people complain just cause they can't survive, even if tech isn't involved. the fact of the matter is that there's only one legitimate game type for this game, and it mostly involves playing with strangers. Every game has random players that are better than others, this game shouldn't be an exception. And it's very gray, the line between what's an "exploit" and what's "allowed" by the game (i.e: CS to break down doors). 

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15 minutes ago, I'm Not a Goalie said:

Tournament play and Public play have *nothing* to do with each other. Using it as an excuse to justify cheating is just lame. If you're good enough to play at the Tournament/League level, why the hell do you need to use your tech in a pub lobby? I'd figure you wouldn't need it, or are you just so reliant on it now you can't play for shit otherwise?

Ever try writing with your non dominant hand? Doesn't work too well. Practice a play style enough and it just comes naturally. I don't use techs or cheats. I just play. If that means I double tap, no start up shift, knife cancel, or trap cancel, then sorry if that offends anyone. Suicide in front of me or quit my match when I grab you and you'll get Jason teabagged like all the others and I'll move on to the next. I've already platinumed. I have zero fucks to give. I play the way the controls allow for.

27 minutes ago, I'm Not a Goalie said:

but I don't expect some level 12 newbie to feel the same way when he runs into a Ghosting Jason.

Nobody needs to ghost a level 12 counselor. IF it happens it's either done for practice or to get the drop on some douchebag kill squad that got a few too many lucky hits in while taking advantage of the fact that Jason can't block effectively. The only exploit in the game that doesn't need special button combos to perform, btw. 

44 minutes ago, MrSketchyFungus said:

idk why anyone is arguing with you. Pub players basically ignore the actual point of the game mostly

At least someone sees it....

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16 minutes ago, MrSketchyFungus said:

Considering this is mostly countering things I was arguing without mentioning me, I guess I'd just reiterate that it isn't too hard to find a new lobby, and most J's/Counselors don't actually know most of these techs anyways. It isn't a persistent problem in every lobby, and some people complain just cause they can't survive, even if tech isn't involved. the fact of the matter is that there's only one legitimate game type for this game, and it mostly involves playing with strangers. Every game has random players that are better than others, this game shouldn't be an exception. And it's very gray, the line between what's an "exploit" and what's "allowed" by the game (i.e: CS to break down doors). 

Oh, you're not the only one saying this. It's not just this thread either, Tournament play is a very common excuse among player's who use tech and don't want to be labeled cheaters. If I wanted to call out someone specifically, I would've, but that wasn't my intention. Mostly the philosophy as a whole. And I don't disagree that most players in pub lobbies don't know how to use these techniques, but for me that's more of another reason why they shouldn't be used rather than the other way around. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

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12 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

 Suicide in front of me or quit my match when I grab you and you'll get Jason teabagged like all the others and I'll move on to the next. I've already platinumed. I have zero fucks to give.

Well, that makes two of us. That's an attitude I can respect.

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21 minutes ago, I'm Not a Goalie said:

Oh, you're not the only one saying this. It's not just this thread either, Tournament play is a very common excuse among player's who use tech and don't want to be labeled cheaters. If I wanted to call out someone specifically, I would've, but that wasn't my intention. Mostly the philosophy as a whole. And I don't disagree that most players in pub lobbies don't know how to use these techniques, but for me that's more of another reason why they shouldn't be used rather than the other way around. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

Eh, sounds like an excuse to not try to be good at the game to me. Every multiplayer game has shit like this. The vocal crowd is very often the people who just don't want to keep up. It's one thing to sit on a rock that Jason can't reach for 20 minutes, it's another to heal yourself half a second quicker. Tons of games rely on little tips and tricks to succeed, and it's already been exacerbated, the argument between "tech" and "cheating". But it's a 20 minute match tops, and most of the exploits are easy to counter if  you know what you're doing. there's really no reason right now to complain about the state of public lobbies. Roof and Rock glitches were/are a far more egregious problem than J's breaking doors down too fast or counselors quick healing. Those are easy to counter if you play for a while.

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At the end of the day, players either will or won't use these tactics. It would be easier to just group yourself with like-minded players and play with your preferred play style.

@Redcat345, any exploits that the team decides to patch out (hopefully without anything else breaking) would be nice.

@Brian76, I agree that enjoying the game to the best of one's ability while we can should be done. We'll eventually get that dismal notice that the dedicated services will be shut down.

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9 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

I play pubs all the time and rarely ever run into a player that knows how to do any tech, counselor or Jason. I honestly wish I did run into them more often. It's a lot more fun playing with a group that knows what they're doing. 

 

So if someone isn’t cheating they don’t know how to play the game properly? I honestly hope I never play against you or any one else in this thread that tries to justifying cheating as being ok. 
 

Just because you know how to cheat doesn’t mean you should. I’ve been aware of all the cheats in this thread for a longtime but have no interest in doing them & no interest in even learning how. 
 

People trying to justify it by saying its no different than people who use cs to break down a door is laughable. 

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I find it amusing that people complain about Jason combat stance chopping doors down, and this is coming from a counselor main that rarely plays as Jason.

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13 hours ago, Top_Cat said:

So if someone isn’t cheating they don’t know how to play the game properly? I honestly hope I never play against you or any one else in this thread that tries to justifying cheating as being ok. 
 

Just because you know how to cheat doesn’t mean you should. I’ve been aware of all the cheats in this thread for a longtime but have no interest in doing them & no interest in even learning how. 
 

People trying to justify it by saying its no different than people who use cs to break down a door is laughable. 

Ditto

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I hope the exploits for Jason and the counselors will be fixed. There is no excuse for this.

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1 hour ago, Nibori said:

Umarım Jason ve danışmanlar için istismarlar giderilir. Bunun hiçbir bahanesi yok.

I don't think it will ever be remedied. The number of in-game cheats is increasing day by day

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22 hours ago, Top_Cat said:

Yani biri hile yapmıyorsa, oyunu nasıl düzgün oynayacağını bilmiyor mu? Dürüst olmak gerekirse, hile yapmayı iyi olarak gerekçelendirmeye çalışan bu başlıkta size veya başka birine karşı asla oynamam. 
 

Nasıl hile yapılacağını bilmen, yapman gerektiği anlamına gelmez. Uzun zamandır bu konudaki tüm hilelerin farkındayım ama bunları yapmakla hiç ilgilenmiyorum ve nasıl yapılacağını öğrenmekle bile ilgilenmiyorum. 
 

Bir kapıyı kırmak için cs kullanan insanlardan farklı olmadığını söyleyerek bunu haklı çıkarmaya çalışan insanlar gülünçtür. 

I have over 1000 hours in the game, some of my friends offered me cheats but I don't accept. But to be honest, there is a dance, I want to do his trick a lot, but I don't. In dance challenges, A.J Mason does it. I want so much, but I know I'll be banned. That's why I don't. By the way, I hate cheaters, they break the in-game order. I once came across such a trick that the guy was doing everything and when my friend was Jason, I teamed up. I fixed the car, I was going to smash the cheater as usual, it stopped in front of me, then I ran over it, the sound of dying was coming but it wasn't dying. Jason did not work when he hit it, and when he right clicked he would immediately run, fly, teleport, have an infinite weapon, beat Jason with a rifle. It wouldn't be visible in between. It was a very crazy trick.

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22 hours ago, Top_Cat said:

So if someone isn’t cheating they don’t know how to play the game properly? I honestly hope I never play against you or any one else in this thread that tries to justifying cheating as being ok. 
 

Just because you know how to cheat doesn’t mean you should. I’ve been aware of all the cheats in this thread for a longtime but have no interest in doing them & no interest in even learning how. 
 

People trying to justify it by saying its no different than people who use cs to break down a door is laughable. 

Ok, lets break all these down real quick and see how bad they really are.

"Speed shift": actual name is no start up shift. All this does is allow Jason to move during shift start up animation. Drawback is that Jason is completely visible during shift start up. Thereby making it easier to shift bat on a short shift. It does not make Jason shift faster. It doesn't add time to the shift. It does however make it possible to shift about 10 feet farther because you can move sooner. A whole 10 feet. Yay. About the equivalent of a Vanessa running marathon and getting an extra 10 feet out of a sprint. Really not that big of a deal.

Knife cancel (for picking up knives): takes about 1/10 of a second off of picking up throwing knives. You're probably not going to collect 10 throwing knives per match anyway, but if you do then congrats, you saved about one second during a 20 minute match. Also not that big of a deal.

Trap block: you're in block whilst placing a trap. So if someone hits you, you're blocking right? Yay. Unless they hit you with a heavy attack while you're placing a trap, the swing is going to miss you anyway. A light attack will swing over a ducking Jason every time. Also, you can't move until after the would be trap animation finishes. So most of the time this is nothing more than a parlor trick. Again not a big deal.

Double tap: breaks down doors a little bit faster. How much faster? On host (against the bots) I can break down every door and window on Pack small in about10 minutes with part 3 Jason by using "non exploit" combat stance correctly. With double tap, I can take out every door and window on Pack small in about 9 minutes. 1 minute faster IF all I'm doing is breaking down doors. On a single door I can knock one down almost as fast as a weapon strength Jason ON HOST. Off host is not nearly as fast due to latency issues. Again it makes almost no difference at all in pub lobbies. Especially if you don't get a local server. i.e. US players on Canadian servers or Canadian players on US servers. You can't even quick toss a throwing knife, let alone double tap effectively on a distant server.

Abduction: this one is nearly impossible to fix because there are several ways to do it, both intentional and unintentional. I'm pretty sure they're not going to recode the entire grab mechanic at this point in the game's life. I could be wrong though.

Ghosting: ooh, Invisible Man vibes. This ones super scary. Unless you step out of the way. Or hit him. Or toss firecrackers. Or actually look at your mini map. And then you can hear the footsteps, of course. Some varients you can still see. Then there's the 90 percent chance that his grab will miss you anyway. Or not work at all. 🤔 Maybe this one's not so scary after all...

So which one of these "cheats" is so game breaking? Show me one that will bring the match to a screeching halt as fast as Packanack roof, Higgins rock, Pinehurst stairs,  bed glitches, or dozens of other map glitches that still haven't been fixed yet.

And let me ask all the goody two shoes counselor mains one question:

How many of you "I'm not a cheater" players have ever hit a Jason through a closed unbroken door? Obviously not recently. But I bet you all did it back when you could. I know I did. And it was still an exploit...

 

 

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1 hour ago, Somethin Cool said:

Ok, lets break all these down real quick and see how bad they really are.

"Speed shift": actual name is no start up shift. All this does is allow Jason to move during shift start up animation. Drawback is that Jason is completely visible during shift start up. Thereby making it easier to shift bat on a short shift. It does not make Jason shift faster. It doesn't add time to the shift. It does however make it possible to shift about 10 feet farther because you can move sooner. A whole 10 feet. Yay. About the equivalent of a Vanessa running marathon and getting an extra 10 feet out of a sprint. Really not that big of a deal.

Knife cancel (for picking up knives): takes about 1/10 of a second off of picking up throwing knives. You're probably not going to collect 10 throwing knives per match anyway, but if you do then congrats, you saved about one second during a 20 minute match. Also not that big of a deal.

Trap block: you're in block whilst placing a trap. So if someone hits you, you're blocking right? Yay. Unless they hit you with a heavy attack while you're placing a trap, the swing is going to miss you anyway. A light attack will swing over a ducking Jason every time. Also, you can't move until after the would be trap animation finishes. So most of the time this is nothing more than a parlor trick. Again not a big deal.

Double tap: breaks down doors a little bit faster. How much faster? On host (against the bots) I can break down every door and window on Pack small in about10 minutes with part 3 Jason by using "non exploit" combat stance correctly. With double tap, I can take out every door and window on Pack small in about 9 minutes. 1 minute faster IF all I'm doing is breaking down doors. On a single door I can knock one down almost as fast as a weapon strength Jason ON HOST. Off host is not nearly as fast due to latency issues. Again it makes almost no difference at all in pub lobbies. Especially if you don't get a local server. i.e. US players on Canadian servers or Canadian players on US servers. You can't even quick toss a throwing knife, let alone double tap effectively on a distant server.

Abduction: this one is nearly impossible to fix because there are several ways to do it, both intentional and unintentional. I'm pretty sure they're not going to recode the entire grab mechanic at this point in the game's life. I could be wrong though.

Ghosting: ooh, Invisible Man vibes. This ones super scary. Unless you step out of the way. Or hit him. Or toss firecrackers. Or actually look at your mini map. And then you can hear the footsteps, of course. Some varients you can still see. Then there's the 90 percent chance that his grab will miss you anyway. Or not work at all. 🤔 Maybe this one's not so scary after all...

So which one of these "cheats" is so game breaking? Show me one that will bring the match to a screeching halt as fast as Packanack roof, Higgins rock, Pinehurst stairs,  bed glitches, or dozens of other map glitches that still haven't been fixed yet.

And let me ask all the goody two shoes counselor mains one question:

How many of you "I'm not a cheater" players have ever hit a Jason through a closed unbroken door? Obviously not recently. But I bet you all did it back when you could. I know I did. And it was still an exploit...

 

 

As far as I’m & thankfully most of this forum is concerned cheating is still cheating. Trying to break each one down & say they don’t really make a difference doesn’t matter. Whether they help a lot or a little. 
 

Just using abduction a Jason doesn’t really have to worry about being killed as they can just use it on Tommy or Sweater girl if the need arises. 

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Abduction does happen unintentionally at least on PC.I can attest to this.I can't tell you how many times I've grabbed a person and as soon as I hit one of the kill buttons it will rubber band me and the counselor usually to the area I was just at previously. I get called out every so often  because of the frequency of it happening but I'm NOT trying to do it. They died regardless unless they had a PK.

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1 hour ago, Top_Cat said:

As far as I’m & thankfully most of this forum is concerned cheating is still cheating.

So you're the only player in the game that's never hit a Jason through a locked door then right? Or maybe you started playing after that was patched. 

 

1 hour ago, Top_Cat said:

Just using abduction a Jason doesn’t really have to worry about being killed as they can just use it on Tommy or Sweater girl if the need arises. 

Only if it works. It's very easy to counter as I've explained earlier. And I very seriously doubt you're going to run into too many Jason players that even know how to intentionally do it. And if you do, I can guarantee you that the only reason you would have to worry about it is if you miraculously got their mask off because you're taking advantage of the fact that quick block is nearly impossible off host. So what you're looking for is an easy kill where you don't deserve it. Play that same Jason in a private match with your little quick play kill squad and you'd never get the mask to begin with. 

 

Edit: I very rarely ghost or abduct anyone and I honestly can't remember the last time I prevented Tommy in a quick play match. There really isn't much of anything to worry about in a pub lobby, including being killed.  Most QP kill squads don't know rat shit from Rice Krispies tbh. You can label and criticize my play style all you want but it's not going to change the fact that advanced tactics are sometimes necessary and always a smart choice. It's your loss if you're too blind to see it.

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4 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

Ok, lets break all these down real quick and see how bad they really are

If they are bad, why do you use them? 😑

They are not as bad as you said, they can and do make a difference between killing or letting a counselor escape. They do make the game stupidly easier, especially side-shift and abduction. The same can be said about counselor cheats, like spray cancel or melee weapon swing teleport.

Btw, what do you think about infinite PK or the throwing knife car glitch? What is the limit for the so-called "techs"?

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2 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

So you're the only player in the game that's never hit a Jason through a locked door then right? Or maybe you started playing after that was patched. 

 

Only if it works. It's very easy to counter as I've explained earlier. And I very seriously doubt you're going to run into too many Jason players that even know how to intentionally do it. And if you do, I can guarantee you that the only reason you would have to worry about it is if you miraculously got their mask off because you're taking advantage of the fact that quick block is nearly impossible off host. So what you're looking for is an easy kill where you don't deserve it. Play that same Jason in a private match with your little quick play kill squad and you'd never get the mask to begin with. 

 

Edit: I very rarely ghost or abduct anyone and I honestly can't remember the last time I prevented Tommy in a quick play match. There really isn't much of anything to worry about in a pub lobby, including being killed.  Most QP kill squads don't know rat shit from Rice Krispies tbh. You can label and criticize my play style all you want but it's not going to change the fact that advanced tactics are sometimes necessary and always a smart choice. It's your loss if you're too blind to see it.

I’ve been playing since launch. I never once hit Jason through a door as it is cheap & would annoy me as Jason when it happened to me.

Claiming cheating is necessary and a smart choice is a joke. It’s not about being too blind to see it. Your openly admitting to cheating in an online game. 
 

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IDK how to quote from another thread, but the person was complaining about double tap (Jason AND counselor can do, and been around since the BETA)

"I'm not going to lie though. When I do play as Jason against friends, which is rare since I prefer to run counselors with my buddies,  odds are I'm not going to kill them unless they give me a reason to have too or when it's funny. That mentality does screw me over at times since they will get the cops called on occasion or escape in the 4-seater with a couple of rando's by that's on me for deciding to take it easy on them. I've always advocated that it's Jason's prerogative to kill or not kill whomever he pleases." 

"Sometimes it's walking side-by-side with a limping Lachappa desperately trying to make it to the police exit who is probably convinced I'm going to slash him to death at any second. Sometimes not killing people can be just as fun as murdering everyone."

This to me is more of a problem.... treating the game like it's minecraft and not a slasher.  Maybe it's fun for you running along side counselors, wasting everyone's time and teaming with friends.  Some people actually want to play the game properly and yes there are REALLY SHITTY EXPLOITS  like when knifing the car was a thing, rooftop glitching , sliding...... but for people to complain about breaking a door slightly faster in CS or placing a counselor trap to block Jason from doing so is just laughable to me.  It is not an intended mechanic of the game? well neither is running along side counselors and not killing them, many consider that teaming.

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