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Methodicalize

Servers just got hit again 2 PM EST

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1 minute ago, Methodicalize said:

Evet.

When it happened, I did not understand. Game over . He threw it from the room to the lobby, and then gave all my friends and me a fatal error.

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So much for that patch to fix things.

The answer is now clear @mattshotcha it's time to disable dedicated servers and allow us to play P2P. 

Because a round here and there with a host quit that throws everyone back to the menu is better than not being able to play any rounds. 

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The fact that there is no legal prosecution when this has been ongoing for 5-nearly 6 weeks is baffling.

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23 minutes ago, SirMang said:

So much for that patch to fix things.

The answer is now clear @mattshotcha it's time to disable dedicated servers and allow us to play P2P. 

Because a round here and there with a host quit that throws everyone back to the menu is better than not being able to play any rounds. 

You keep saying this and I keep replying that there's more to it than the flip of a switch, as well as the fact that we need servers of some sort to stabilize at the least for player progression. If you had peer to peer right now, still not everyone would be able to play. And there's no magic button for swapping servers back to peer to peer.

18 minutes ago, Methodicalize said:

The fact that there is no legal prosecution when this has been ongoing for 5-nearly 6 weeks is baffling.

The legal side of it is really not that baffling. These things take time.

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41 minutes ago, SirMang said:

So much for that patch to fix things.

The answer is now clear @mattshotcha it's time to disable dedicated servers and allow us to play P2P. 

Because a round here and there with a host quit that throws everyone back to the menu is better than not being able to play any rounds. 

1.) Start a Quick Play
2.) If it tries to throw you in a Dedicated Server, back out
3.) Let the game search until it gets tired and decides to put you in a P2P session. This may take anywhere from 1 to 5 mins.

Problem solved. 

Often, you'll get your own lobby. Takes some time to fill up, but at least you'll be able to play & you won't have to worry about getting kicked.

Hope this helps!

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I guess what is baffling in my reference is the fact of the person who is claiming the hacks, they've posted 3 different videos as proof on their youtube.

We know right where the source is "supposedly" unless they are full of s*** of course.

Just wish things were stable as a diehard of the game/franchise. Been missing lots of time cuz of this ordeal.

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For the last month or so I have only played in Xbox Private Matches and I've been ok with that.    Biggest thing I would like to see them change in Private Matches is adding a ready up timer.  With QP not working there are a lot of people playing Private Matches without a mic which is fine but it means you have no idea why they haven't readied up or if they ever will.  Its the one big downside to Private Matches (and the host quitting)

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1 minute ago, Methodicalize said:

We know right where the source is "supposedly" unless they are full of s*** of course.

I'm starting to think this is a possibility. If you are referring to the same individual I'm thinking of, they were taking credit for the hacking, but in later vids they were trying to blame others.

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7 minutes ago, Methodicalize said:

I guess what is baffling in my reference is the fact of the person who is claiming the hacks, they've posted 3 different videos as proof on their youtube.

We know right where the source is "supposedly" unless they are full of s*** of course.

Just wish things were stable as a diehard of the game/franchise. Been missing lots of time cuz of this ordeal.

You know I can't share details of the investigation. But regardless, even if the person or persons responsible for spreading this had been arrested, stood trial, and already tossed in jail, we still have to close the security hole. And that's going to take some more time, as detailed in the server status statement threads.

6 minutes ago, Laotian Lam said:

For the last month or so I have only played in Xbox Private Matches and I've been ok with that.    Biggest thing I would like to see them change in Private Matches is adding a ready up timer.  With QP not working there are a lot of people playing Private Matches without a mic which is fine but it means you have no idea why they haven't readied up or if they ever will.  Its the one big downside to Private Matches (and the host quitting)

I'm not sure what this would require or how much of matchmaking it would touch (touching matchmaking and potentially opening a can of worms would not be wise right now) but I will mention it to the appropriate team members for a look.

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Further updating this situation. Testing Quickplay now, after an hour has passed and things seem stable?

We had 4 lobbies in a row, across all streams with Twitch where the disconnections began.

Maybe stable? Still inconsistent? Not sure. 6 1/2 hours of no issues today before they began.

Seems good now?

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44 minutes ago, Methodicalize said:

Further updating this situation. Testing Quickplay now, after an hour has passed and things seem stable?

We had 4 lobbies in a row, across all streams with Twitch where the disconnections began.

Maybe stable? Still inconsistent? Not sure. 6 1/2 hours of no issues today before they began.

Seems good now?

Refer to the running threads to stay up to date. As stated there, you'll see some improvements, but things won't be completely stable until we get all patches out.

So it's great that you're in game now and I hope it holds out, but remember we aren't out of the woods yet.

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2 hours ago, Brevator said:

1.) Start a Quick Play
2.) If it tries to throw you in a Dedicated Server, back out
3.) Let the game search until it gets tired and decides to put you in a P2P session. This may take anywhere from 1 to 5 mins.

Problem solved. 

Often, you'll get your own lobby. Takes some time to fill up, but at least you'll be able to play & you won't have to worry about getting kicked.

Hope this helps!

I know this method does work, but the game doesn't always cooperate with trying it.  

I did this a couple times the last server hack but it grows tiresome trying to search for 15 minutes finally to get into a P2P server and then watching as it doesn't fill up. 

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2 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

You keep saying this and I keep replying that there's more to it than the flip of a switch, as well as the fact that we need servers of some sort to stabilize at the least for player progression. If you had peer to peer right now, still not everyone would be able to play. And there's no magic button for swapping servers back to peer to peer.

The legal side of it is really not that baffling. These things take time.

Your bolded is 100% bullshit.  Point blank.  Period.

If you get into a P2P QP lobby the game works fine.  If you play in Private servers, also shockingly P2P, it works fine. 

You know when it doesn't work fine? Your dedicated servers.  That's where.

So the fix is simple since no one on your side can figure out how to fix over a month long problem, disable dedicated servers.  It's going to be done at some point anyway. 

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10 minutes ago, SirMang said:

Your bolded is 100% bullshit.  Point blank.  Period.

If you get into a P2P QP lobby the game works fine.  If you play in Private servers, also shockingly P2P, it works fine. 

You know when it doesn't work fine? Your dedicated servers.  That's where.

So the fix is simple since no one on your side can figure out how to fix over a month long problem, disable dedicated servers.  It's going to be done at some point anyway. 

There's still the small issue of servers that host player data, no? So before you go over the top hostile, consider the fact that database login, aka logging the player in to retrieve their data from the database, which is stored... on servers, still needs to happen.

I've explained this to you numerous times.

Just because if, and that's IF as in it's a chance not a guarantee, IF you get in past the database login, you can play peer to peer. But not everyone is getting in to that point. That's why those public peer to peer lobbies take so long to fill. And IF we were to decide to commit to swapping over to peer to peer, we'd need to create a patch that would shift player data to local saves instead of server saves, which is incredibly susceptible to... hackers. 

Here's another big huge IF for you. IF we did say "screw it, the local saves are susceptible to hackers, but let's give it a shot anyway" that patch we would need to create? That would take approximately twice as long as rolling out the patch we're already essentially done with and trying to get through submission to close the system.

So, again, no. It's not bullshit. And I understand how frustrating this is, but if you cannot keep your frustrations from causing you to lash out instead of simply trying to understand what I've been saying, share those frustrations elsewhere.

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No there's no issue with player data.  People still play in private lobbies and the data is just fine. 

If you disabled the dedicated servers, then everyone would be on public P2P servers thus it wouldn't take as long. 

If all of these local saves are susceptible to hackers, as you want to claim, then why was the game initially released without dedicated servers where those saves could have been potentially compromised?  If these local saves are susceptible to hackers as you want to claim, why do we have private lobbies that are P2P as well? 

You want to play this fearmongering game that the big bad hackers are going to come and steal your bread, yet the game was released without dedicated servers and still allows for private lobbies.  Both of which fly in the face of your remarks here.  Both of which still *gasp* saved player data.

As apparently the patch you just released was garbage, as in it did not work, it was a waste of a month.  So take another month apparently and do the easy solution. a solution that  is simple, disable dedicated servers. 

@mattshotcha oh so if I make simple comments with simple solutions while pointing out you're wrong both now and based on the history of the game you don't want to hear my opinion?  Awesome.  Silence the critics!  Keep up the ass kissing.  I hope you can figure out a solution to this problem before next year then, I'm sure you all are doing a bang job.  Especially with how fast you patch anything in this game.  

Last comment...you really think people shouldn't be frustrated at the incompetence of fixing/patching/securing this game?  Seriously? 

 

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9 minutes ago, SirMang said:

No there's no issue with player data.  People still play in private lobbies and the data is just fine. 

If you disabled the dedicated servers, then everyone would be on public P2P servers thus it wouldn't take as long. 

If all of these local saves are susceptible to hackers, as you want to claim, then why was the game initially released without dedicated servers where those saves could have been potentially compromised?  If these local saves are susceptible to hackers as you want to claim, why do we have private lobbies that are P2P as well? 

You want to play this fearmongering game that the big bad hackers are going to come and steal your bread, yet the game was released without dedicated servers and still allows for private lobbies.  Both of which fly in the face of your remarks here.  Both of which still *gasp* saved player data.

As apparently the patch you just released was garbage, as in it did not work, it was a waste of a month.  So take another month apparently and do the easy solution. a solution that  is simple, disable dedicated servers. 

@mattshotcha oh so if I make simple comments with simple solutions while pointing out you're wrong both now and based on the history of the game you don't want to hear my opinion?  Awesome.  Silence the critics!  Keep up the ass kissing.  I hope you can figure out a solution to this problem before next year then, I'm sure you all are doing a bang job.  Especially with how fast you patch anything in this game.  

Last comment...you really think people shouldn't be frustrated at the incompetence of fixing/patching/securing this game?  Seriously? 

 

You need to re-read what I said. Even before dedicated servers, player info was stored server side to keep it more secure. We always had player data on the database servers. Local saves are susceptible, but have never been a part of this game. If you would read what I'm replying instead of lashing out, we might find some understanding here. Peer to peer or not, player data was server stored, always.

Speaking of reading what was already said, please re-read the statement on the patch. It clearly states that we're working with smaller increments of change, and the full fix won't be in place until all platforms are patched, due to how the backend is structured. So it's not that the patch didn't work, it's simply that we do not have the Xbox and Switch versions up yet and the effect of the patches will be incremental until we do. 

And no, you can make all the simple comments you like. No one is silencing critics, I'm simply asking that you read the info we have put out and do at least the minimal amount of preparation before launching into profanity and incorrect solutions.

You have already been warned of the increasing hostility. I think it's time for a cool down.

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54 minutes ago, mattshotcha said:

There's still the small issue of servers that host player data, no? So before you go over the top hostile, consider the fact that database login, aka logging the player in to retrieve their data from the database, which is stored... on servers, still needs to happen.

I've explained this to you numerous times.

Just because if, and that's IF as in it's a chance not a guarantee, IF you get in past the database login, you can play peer to peer. But not everyone is getting in to that point. That's why those public peer to peer lobbies take so long to fill. And IF we were to decide to commit to swapping over to peer to peer, we'd need to create a patch that would shift player data to local saves instead of server saves, which is incredibly susceptible to... hackers. 

Here's another big huge IF for you. IF we did say "screw it, the local saves are susceptible to hackers, but let's give it a shot anyway" that patch we would need to create? That would take approximately twice as long as rolling out the patch we're already essentially done with and trying to get through submission to close the system.

So, again, no. It's not bullshit. And I understand how frustrating this is, but if you cannot keep your frustrations from causing you to lash out instead of simply trying to understand what I've been saying, share those frustrations elsewhere.

Isn't that being looked at already anyways with the game being long in the tooth? Client side profiles? We've asked for this over and over, and with the current situation, a local area network player based lobby, with player hosted details would be better than what we can't play now. At least then we could progress locally, while playing with each other. Isn't that the end goal after dedicated servers are shut down? P2p lobbies? Or will everything still be server side for profiles, that is awful if that's the case. Every game gets shut down eventually, and we wouldn't have the ability to play what we paid for. If not we're stuck with part 3 and part 5 with no perks on any counselors, and counselors locked behind a server login which may not exist eventually. Give the game to the community. There are plenty of talented modders that could breathe new life. Not allowing client side profiles, and a LAN party system is ridiculous, it was in the programming already and worked just fine in cracked versions of the game. Worked just fine in legit copies as well with a modified pak file until it was removed. So saying it's difficult, is certainly a cop out. Difficult for the small development team now? Possibly, but these people are being paid. That's their job. To figure out the spiderweb of a mess that the previous coders left. from my understanding a majority of it was blueprint. They should be able to trace it easily. It's not code, it's a graph that links pseudo code. 

I guess my complaint is work on fixing server side issues, but in the mean time, get ready for the end of servers now, and give us the option of LAN, and client side profiles now. So we can decide to still play, give us P2P now, we understand it's hackable. We know it can be abused. Is it any different than now? We would just have to invite our friends lists to private hosted lobbies and trust each other. playing with randoms is such a toss up already. People are sick of it. That's the issue, you can't fix it by now. Give us some semblance of control in how we start our games. Right now it's all server side. That won't last ultimately. 

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50 minutes ago, mattshotcha said:

 

You have already been warned of the increasing hostility. I think it's time for a cool down.

 

We don't silence people for criticism, yet have no fear I @mattshotcha, did just that.

You're just as incompetent as the people who try to fix this game. 

Make my vacation permanent, I'm done here.  And... have a lovely day. 

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17 minutes ago, Mdw22 said:

Isn't that being looked at already anyways with the game being long in the tooth? Client side profiles? We've asked for this over and over, and with the current situation, a local area network player based lobby, with player hosted details would be better than what we can't play now. At least then we could progress locally, while playing with each other. Isn't that the end goal after dedicated servers are shut down? P2p lobbies? Or will everything still be server side for profiles, that is awful if that's the case. Every game gets shut down eventually, and we wouldn't have the ability to play what we paid for. If not we're stuck with part 3 and part 5 with no perks on any counselors, and counselors locked behind a server login which may not exist eventually. Give the game to the community. There are plenty of talented modders that could breathe new life. Not allowing client side profiles, and a LAN party system is ridiculous, it was in the programming already and worked just fine in cracked versions of the game. Worked just fine in legit copies as well with a modified pak file until it was removed. So saying it's difficult, is certainly a cop out. Difficult for the small development team now? Possibly, but these people are being paid. That's their job. To figure out the spiderweb of a mess that the previous coders left. from my understanding a majority of it was blueprint. They should be able to trace it easily. It's not code, it's a graph that links pseudo code. 

First off, yes, it's being considered. But it's not, or at least wasn't, being considered with the urgency we need right now. We had planned to eventually swap over to peer to peer, but keep the database servers running. So that info would be on servers, yes, but a much lower impact to Gun than dedicated servers are. So we could keep them running into the peer to peer days.

Before any shut down of the servers that store player data, we would look to move to local. We wouldn't cut off access to player progress, etc. But we aren't there yet, as even if we swap to peer to peer tonight, we'd keep the player data servers running. 

And before you call something I said a cop out, make sure it's something I said. Because I never said it was "too difficult" I only stated that it would not be any quicker to do that NOW than it would be to continue with our current patch plan. Which is not a bum patch, it's just not fully deployed yet.

What I also said was that it wasn't a simple switch flip, and it's not. But that doesn't mean it's too difficult. It only means that this misconception that we could swap to peer to peer tonight and everything would be better is just that: a misconception. In truth, it wouldn't resolve the problem for everyone, it wouldn't be quick, and it wouldn't be complete. 

As for local saves, that's a bridge we have yet to cross. First up is getting servers, as in dedicated match servers, stabilized. When we get to the point of switching back to peer to peer, player data will stay on database servers which will stay ON. If we decide in the future we need to terminate the database servers, we'll swap to local saves at that time.

 

11 minutes ago, BannedForTruth said:

 

We don't silence people for criticism, yet have no fear I @mattshotcha, did just that.

You're just as incompetent as the people who try to fix this game. 

Make my vacation permanent, I'm done here.  And... have a lovely day. 

"Silenced" as in you had a 7 day ban from a forum. 

You're being melodramatic now. Not only is that hardly silencing you, as I suspect your voice works elsewhere other than just this forum, but it wasn't even permanent. None of your comments had been deleted, not even hidden. How "silent" is that?

Now, of course, your ban becomes permanent.

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1 hour ago, SirMang said:

No there's no issue with player data.  People still play in private lobbies and the data is just fine. 

If you disabled the dedicated servers, then everyone would be on public P2P servers thus it wouldn't take as long. 

If all of these local saves are susceptible to hackers, as you want to claim, then why was the game initially released without dedicated servers where those saves could have been potentially compromised?  If these local saves are susceptible to hackers as you want to claim, why do we have private lobbies that are P2P as well? 

You want to play this fearmongering game that the big bad hackers are going to come and steal your bread, yet the game was released without dedicated servers and still allows for private lobbies.  Both of which fly in the face of your remarks here.  Both of which still *gasp* saved player data.

As apparently the patch you just released was garbage, as in it did not work, it was a waste of a month.  So take another month apparently and do the easy solution. a solution that  is simple, disable dedicated servers. 

@mattshotcha oh so if I make simple comments with simple solutions while pointing out you're wrong both now and based on the history of the game you don't want to hear my opinion?  Awesome.  Silence the critics!  Keep up the ass kissing.  I hope you can figure out a solution to this problem before next year then, I'm sure you all are doing a bang job.  Especially with how fast you patch anything in this game.  

Last comment...you really think people shouldn't be frustrated at the incompetence of fixing/patching/securing this game?  Seriously? 

 

It is not to be against you, but the problem is not the dedicated servers. On PC, for example, there is a fatal error when having the game open without connecting to a dedicated server

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1 hour ago, mattshotcha said:

First off, yes, it's being considered. But it's not, or at least wasn't, being considered with the urgency we need right now. We had planned to eventually swap over to peer to peer, but keep the database servers running. So that info would be on servers, yes, but a much lower impact to Gun than dedicated servers are. So we could keep them running into the peer to peer days.

Before any shut down of the servers that store player data, we would look to move to local. We wouldn't cut off access to player progress, etc. But we aren't there yet, as even if we swap to peer to peer tonight, we'd keep the player data servers running. 

And before you call something I said a cop out, make sure it's something I said. Because I never said it was "too difficult" I only stated that it would not be any quicker to do that NOW than it would be to continue with our current patch plan. Which is not a bum patch, it's just not fully deployed yet.

What I also said was that it wasn't a simple switch flip, and it's not. But that doesn't mean it's too difficult. It only means that this misconception that we could swap to peer to peer tonight and everything would be better is just that: a misconception. In truth, it wouldn't resolve the problem for everyone, it wouldn't be quick, and it wouldn't be complete. 

As for local saves, that's a bridge we have yet to cross. First up is getting servers, as in dedicated match servers, stabilized. When we get to the point of switching back to peer to peer, player data will stay on database servers which will stay ON. If we decide in the future we need to terminate the database servers, we'll swap to local saves at that time.

 

"Silenced" as in you had a 7 day ban from a forum. 

You're being melodramatic now. Not only is that hardly silencing you, as I suspect your voice works elsewhere other than just this forum, but it wasn't even permanent. None of your comments had been deleted, not even hidden. How "silent" is that?

Now, of course, your ban becomes permanent.

You're right, I can't find a place where you said it was too difficult. I appreciate the feedback. I do hope that considering the situation, a solution outside of server side progression is being streamlined inside of the small development team. That and though by now it may not be a "flip the switch" that it  was at one point, and that is obvious based on previous language in the pak files. I hope they are looking at locally hosted options. If the server problems persist. People still want to play, it's a coding problem to not let LAN games exist. I get on everything but PC theres a lot more to it, but on the PC portion it can be possible. The games built in blue print in unreal, it could be very well be, a flip of a blue print switch. not a physical one. In coding terms, If Then statements. I wouldn't be surprised. This isn't a super complex thing in terms of unreal and what the team here has done. I'm willing to bet it very well may be a flip of a true or false statement. Not in terms of player progression, or user profiles, but the ability to host LAN matches. I'm sure someone could de-compile the files and show the team how to do it if needed? I already suggested how the physics shouldn't interact on another post. Based on basic knowledge of the unreal engine. how you could fix the car with knife problem easy. It's a physics matrix. I haven't looked recently, but if it's like unity it should work like that. voila, a week or 2 later. Car knife problem got fixed. Maybe I'm wrong. They knew it already. I don't use unreal, but I looked up how it should be handled. maybe it's coincidental. But holy hell, it shouldn't have taken so long to understand how networked objects shouldn't have collisions with player created objects that have physics behind them. Make them not collide (with the car model)  the moment they are created in the scene. Problem solved. I talked about how it was done on another post. I can't remember.  

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/collision-filtering

it wasn't collision matrix with tags (Unity does this), it was collision filtering, which can be done through code, or blueprint. 

The people keeping this game going with patches should've been able to pinpoint this immediately. It's basic understanding of how unreal works. 

"

 

I don't know when the car patch happened but, I know I mentioned it could be fixed this way. 

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I will say this though, @mattshotcha from what I've experienced, and have read, I'm very surprised you still work there. You seem to take everything as a personal insult. As a representative of Gun Media, you handle interactions very poorly. I don't mean to be a jerk, but I would assume your job is customer relations based. I would hope you had some sort of training about how to direct responses, but it doesn't seem you do. I feel like I'm talking to someone who's very "emotional" and not very professional. That can be fine in some cases, but here, I feel like it's inappropriate.

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3 minutes ago, Mdw22 said:

I will say this though, @mattshotcha from what I've experienced, and have read, I'm very surprised you still work there. You seem to take everything as a personal insult. As a representative of Gun Media, you handle interactions very poorly. I don't mean to be a jerk, but I would assume your job is customer relations based. I would hope you had some sort of training about how to direct responses, but it doesn't seem you do. I feel like I'm talking to someone who's very "emotional" and not very professional. That can be fine in some cases, but here, I feel like it's inappropriate.

My job is not in jeopardy, but thanks for the concern.

I've worked community on multiple titles, I've managed teams of community managers, and developed communities from scratch.

My manner in interacting with the communities is human, because I'm a human being. I find it incredibly insulting to assume I'm either inexperienced, ill-equipped, or otherwise unfit for my job here at Gun. But then again, given your approach to claiming you "solved" the car issues, that seems to be standard operating procedure for you.

We are way off topic for this thread, so if you'd like to discuss my qualifications and emotional state further, maybe fire up a new thread.

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14 minutes ago, mattshotcha said:

My job is not in jeopardy, but thanks for the concern.

I've worked community on multiple titles, I've managed teams of community managers, and developed communities from scratch.

My manner in interacting with the communities is human, because I'm a human being. I find it incredibly insulting to assume I'm either inexperienced, ill-equipped, or otherwise unfit for my job here at Gun. But then again, given your approach to claiming you "solved" the car issues, that seems to be standard operating procedure for you.

We are way off topic for this thread, so if you'd like to discuss my qualifications and emotional state further, maybe fire up a new thread.

I mean, arguing with people who are accusing you of acting defensive maybe isn't the best bet? 

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