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Alien_Number_Six

Regarding the server shut down.

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I would like to thank everyone at Gun Media for getting this issue fixed as quickly as possible. @mattshotchaand company did everything they could to insure the survival of Friday The 13th: The Game. As a player I am grateful. Please continue to ban hackers. They have proven that their exploits are far from harmless. And i call upon the players to continue to report the abuse. I would love for the exploiters and blatant teamers to be added to the list. They are just as bad. Of course this may be too much to ask but one can dream about the end of this kind of abuse. 

As a player of this game and someone who loves to play it i have to say that I am sick of ghosting Jasons, coasting councilors, health spray canceling and a host of other annoying exploits. And if you are walking around blocking players into cabins. keeping them from jumping out windows and walking around with Jason like he is your best friend you deserve a ban for harassing other players. The hackers, teamers and exploiters who consistently screw around with the player base took your servers down. These players own your game due to your complete lack of issuing bans. Why don't you do anything about it? Why does the player base be forced to put up with it? 

I think it's time for this policy to change. If you are exploiting the game and blatantly teaming you deserve a ban. It's time Gun Media. The ball is in your court. What are you going to do with it.    

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48 minutes ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

I think it's time for this policy to change. If your exploiting the game and blatantly teaming you deserve a ban. It's time Gun Media. The ball is in your court. What are you going to do with it.

....add a question mark to the end of your interrogative sentence instead of a period? 😁

Seriously, they're not going to ban teamers and glitchers. Come on man, you've been here long enough to know that by now. I wish they'd ban the ones who exploit glitches and 'God-mode' spots, as these people are trash and nothing more, but we both know there's never going to be any bans for teaming. It's simply too easy to misidentify and falsely accuse someone of it.

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58 minutes ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

....add a question mark to the end of your interrogative sentence instead of a period? 😁

Seriously, they're not going to ban teamers and glitchers. Come on man, you've been here long enough to know that by now. I wish they'd ban the ones who exploit glitches and 'God-mode' spots, as these people are trash and nothing more, but we both know there's never going to be any bans for teaming. It's simply too easy to misidentify and falsely accuse someone of it.

I think blatant no question about it teaming could be banned. But your right. And people always fuck with my writing because I actually try.  

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6 minutes ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

I think blatant no question about it teaming could be banned. But your right. And people always fuck with my writing because I actually try.  

If you're walking around with Jason showing him where everyone is hiding then yes, they should ban your ass because you're a little twat and snitches get stitches. Other than that, it's a really gray area on what is or isn't teaming.

Is it teaming if Jason walks by one counselor to attack another? How about stopping the car and grabbing somebody other than the driver? If Jason shows up to investigate a trap being triggered and catches the counselor while they're still in (or just getting out of) the trap, but then teleports away somewhere else, is it teaming? Is it teaming if Jason leads the last surviving counselor to a med spray so they can heal up and then Morphs away? What about if he cripples the last surviving counselor and then allows them to escape? If Jason is chasing one specific counselor despite there being other counselors who are actively trying to attack him, is that teaming? 

I ask because I've done all of the above and been called a teamer for it when there actually wasn't any teaming taking place. 

Grabbed someone other than the driver? I DID grab the driver, but got PKed and while spamming X to stop them from getting the car restarted grabbed the passenger by mistake. Showed up to a trap and Morphed away? The phone trumps the 2-seater every day of the week. Ignored other counselors to chase only one person? Yep, bitch had the sweater. Led injured counselor to med spray? They were good at kiting but stepped in another counselors trap and I love chasing good runners. Crippled final girl/guy and let them go? Jason has prerogative over who dies and who doesn't, and since everyone else did nothing but fuck off all round, I decided the one counselor who actually did something the whole 20 minutes deserved to escape.

Of course, telling the ones flooding me with PMs about teaming what was actually going on didn't help much because... of course it didn't.

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Unfortunately Matt and I assume the team came to the decision to not punish anyone who uses a game flaw (old under the stairs Pinehurst) among other  similar spots to their advantage.If all of a sudden they go 180 on that, it would put even more egg on their faces than there is already. On top of that on PC there are only like 500 people or less playing on average even at peak hours so they probably don't want to lose any more players or why bother keeping the servers up it's kind of a catch 22.As far as Jason tech like  ghosting, abduction I'm not sure where they stand on those.I don't see it very often on PC really and there is a lot of rubber banding when doing grab kills it makes it look like abduction when it's not. Getting rid of the "tech" would probably require major recoding of the control mechanics, probably not in the cards.

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The problem with this is that we need to be able to clearly define what constitutes a "teaming" ban. As others have said, identifying a teamer has to be a situation of zero deniability, zero misinterpretation. Otherwise, we find ourselves in a bog of appeals and evaluations. There is no way to cleanly define this, as even if it is blatant, there is a level of deniability that the offender can take and we then have to be able to prove, without ANY doubt, that they were teaming. Otherwise, we can find ourselves in hot water for restricting access to a paying customer. 

Generally, when a game bans you, it's because you've broken the agreement made when you buy and play the game. Whether it's the EULA or ToS, you broke a contract with the game and the game has restricted or revoked your access based on that. That way, the team is not left in any legal danger for revoking your access. Teaming is never clear cut enough, where we can verify it on our side independently of user reports.

On top of that, our current situation should highlight the level and extent that some players are willing to go to potentially ruin the experience for others. I don't think I need to spend too much time detailing the problem there, as our CS team would be inundated with reports and a percentage of those reports would be filed simply because someone wants to spite someone else. Also, the amount of misidentified cases, where bad luck looks like Jason grabs you and not another counselor, get filed as teaming, etc.

Defining something as an exploit also takes significant work behind the scenes before you can go running around banning people for it. Honestly, with a team of our size, when people are launching onto a roof or hiding under stairs, our efforts are better focused at fixing the spot than dumping time and resources into defining it an exploit and then filing the work with CS to evaluate and comb through reports to identify any worthy of a ban. BUT, even aside from that, in order to define it as an exploit, it has to be somewhat impossible to achieve the same behavior unintentionally. Because again, we cannot simply rely on the community reports, we have to know that it is near impossible to end up in that spot accidentally or we face appeals and denial of guilt by offenders that's plausible.

Hacking, by contrast, can be proven on our backend. And that's why we say that people do get banned. In cases we can verify from our own means, we ban players.

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2 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

The problem with this is that we need to be able to clearly define what constitutes a "teaming" ban. As others have said, identifying a teamer has to be a situation of zero deniability, zero misinterpretation. Otherwise, we find ourselves in a bog of appeals and evaluations. There is no way to cleanly define this, as even if it is blatant, there is a level of deniability that the offender can take and we then have to be able to prove, without ANY doubt, that they were teaming. Otherwise, we can find ourselves in hot water for restricting access to a paying customer. 

Generally, when a game bans you, it's because you've broken the agreement made when you buy and play the game. Whether it's the EULA or ToS, you broke a contract with the game and the game has restricted or revoked your access based on that. That way, the team is not left in any legal danger for revoking your access. Teaming is never clear cut enough, where we can verify it on our side independently of user reports.

On top of that, our current situation should highlight the level and extent that some players are willing to go to potentially ruin the experience for others. I don't think I need to spend too much time detailing the problem there, as our CS team would be inundated with reports and a percentage of those reports would be filed simply because someone wants to spite someone else. Also, the amount of misidentified cases, where bad luck looks like Jason grabs you and not another counselor, get filed as teaming, etc.

Defining something as an exploit also takes significant work behind the scenes before you can go running around banning people for it. Honestly, with a team of our size, when people are launching onto a roof or hiding under stairs, our efforts are better focused at fixing the spot than dumping time and resources into defining it an exploit and then filing the work with CS to evaluate and comb through reports to identify any worthy of a ban. BUT, even aside from that, in order to define it as an exploit, it has to be somewhat impossible to achieve the same behavior unintentionally. Because again, we cannot simply rely on the community reports, we have to know that it is near impossible to end up in that spot accidentally or we face appeals and denial of guilt by offenders that's plausible.

Hacking, by contrast, can be proven on our backend. And that's why we say that people do get banned. In cases we can verify from our own means, we ban players.

I think it's safe to say that a dancing counselor who is perched on a location Jason cannot reach did not get there by accident.

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3 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

Hacking, by contrast, can be proven on our backend. And that's why we say that people do get banned. In cases we can verify from our own means, we ban players.

Can confirm!

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5 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

The problem with this is that we need to be able to clearly define what constitutes a "teaming" ban. As others have said, identifying a teamer has to be a situation of zero deniability, zero misinterpretation. Otherwise, we find ourselves in a bog of appeals and evaluations. There is no way to cleanly define this, as even if it is blatant, there is a level of deniability that the offender can take and we then have to be able to prove, without ANY doubt, that they were teaming. Otherwise, we can find ourselves in hot water for restricting access to a paying customer. 

Generally, when a game bans you, it's because you've broken the agreement made when you buy and play the game. Whether it's the EULA or ToS, you broke a contract with the game and the game has restricted or revoked your access based on that. That way, the team is not left in any legal danger for revoking your access. Teaming is never clear cut enough, where we can verify it on our side independently of user reports.

On top of that, our current situation should highlight the level and extent that some players are willing to go to potentially ruin the experience for others. I don't think I need to spend too much time detailing the problem there, as our CS team would be inundated with reports and a percentage of those reports would be filed simply because someone wants to spite someone else. Also, the amount of misidentified cases, where bad luck looks like Jason grabs you and not another counselor, get filed as teaming, etc.

Defining something as an exploit also takes significant work behind the scenes before you can go running around banning people for it. Honestly, with a team of our size, when people are launching onto a roof or hiding under stairs, our efforts are better focused at fixing the spot than dumping time and resources into defining it an exploit and then filing the work with CS to evaluate and comb through reports to identify any worthy of a ban. BUT, even aside from that, in order to define it as an exploit, it has to be somewhat impossible to achieve the same behavior unintentionally. Because again, we cannot simply rely on the community reports, we have to know that it is near impossible to end up in that spot accidentally or we face appeals and denial of guilt by offenders that's plausible.

Hacking, by contrast, can be proven on our backend. And that's why we say that people do get banned. In cases we can verify from our own means, we ban players.

This is understandable. One time when I was Jason some Chad got in the car and immediately ran over a couple players without my knowing. Another player messaged me telling me Gun is going to ban me for teaming when I had nothing to do with that troll. 

This is why it's important to have hard evidence because it can be misconstrued. I'd say when a counselor is opening cabin doors and they're right next to Jason and Jason isn't grabbing/slashing them and just walking on by then that's a pretty clear case of teamers. 

 

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3 hours ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

I think it's safe to say that a dancing counselor who is perched on a location Jason cannot reach did not get there by accident.

I've been knocked out of bounds unintentionally by some asshat that darted my car and you can bet your ass I spent the rest of the match tea bagging and dancing because he decided to cheat. But if he would have clipped 30 seconds of it and sent it in, it would have looked like I did it myself.

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5 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

I've been knocked out of bounds unintentionally by some asshat that darted my car and you can bet your ass I spent the rest of the match tea bagging and dancing because he decided to cheat. But if he would have clipped 30 seconds of it and sent it in, it would have looked like I did it myself.

Was that the time you were playing as Adam and found that abandoned barn?

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I truly believe there are so many players that cheat, hack, and exploit that if they were to be banned, there'd be barely anyone left, which is why these people aren't banned. They need a player population, even if it's a toxic one.

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34 minutes ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

Was that the time you were playing as Adam and found that abandoned barn?

Nah I do all my exploring in private matches or offline. However, I have to admit that the programmers spent a lot of attention to details even outside the map just for immersion. Correct sizing of shadows even if you're on a roof top, bird shit on the shingles, even unfinished drywall in the repair shop outside the north exit on Jarvis house. The little details are amazing.

However, most of the complaints here are one sided as hell. So I'll offer my two cents. "Teaming" can be taken many ways. And to be completely honest the term is usually taken out of context and blown way out of proportion. If you're in party chat with your friends, if you're Jason and let some low level players escape, hell even if you target the douche that ran half the lobby over last match and let everyone else escape, someone is bound to cry teamer. 

"Exploits" as everyone calls them also fall into that grey area for me. Although I may be a little bit biased on this one, I think anything that makes Jason scarier 3 years into a game that should be dead by now is completely fair game. Why wouldn't you want a scary experience? And the skill and practice it takes for some of these guys to master this stuff is mind boggling. But it's not necessarily out of balance either. We hold all exploit tournaments occasionally, and I have to admit that 1 Jason that knows all the tricks vs 6 counselors that also know all the tricks, the Jason is still usually outmatched.

In pubs however, I play to the lobby. I'll do a few time saving tricks, and there are some things that I do without thinking about that are still considered "exploits" by average players, but I'll play as straight up as I can unless there are real teamers in the lobby. In that case I'll do whatever it takes to ensure those people have just as bad of a time as everyone else in the lobby that just wanted a fair match. To be clear I'm talking about counselors opening doors for Jason, running half the lobby over then playing grab ass with Jason until the clock runs out, or glitching out of bounds, not just a group of friends that decided they want to play Friday together and are mostly playing fair. Even if they're in party chat.

 

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my two cents: i dont mind teaming. is it scummy? absolutely. is it the worst? not really. MOST of the time, teamers are in a party together, so of course they are gonna cooperate with each other.

 

as for glitchers, yes, those should be banned. its not fair for a jason that he cant reach a consul that is floating above some unreachable rocks, and that knives magically dont reach either.

glitches are a form of cheating. i dont mind them in single player games (i also glitch too -on sp games-, if they give funny results), but online? no, thats plain and simple cheating and thus cheating players should not be allowed to play the game, for the sake of everyone else.

also, question so i dont have to make a topic: the game is back online properly?

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15 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

The problem with this is that we need to be able to clearly define what constitutes a "teaming" ban. As others have said, identifying a teamer has to be a situation of zero deniability, zero misinterpretation. Otherwise, we find ourselves in a bog of appeals and evaluations. There is no way to cleanly define this, as even if it is blatant, there is a level of deniability that the offender can take and we then have to be able to prove, without ANY doubt, that they were teaming. Otherwise, we can find ourselves in hot water for restricting access to a paying customer. 

Generally, when a game bans you, it's because you've broken the agreement made when you buy and play the game. Whether it's the EULA or ToS, you broke a contract with the game and the game has restricted or revoked your access based on that. That way, the team is not left in any legal danger for revoking your access. Teaming is never clear cut enough, where we can verify it on our side independently of user reports.

On top of that, our current situation should highlight the level and extent that some players are willing to go to potentially ruin the experience for others. I don't think I need to spend too much time detailing the problem there, as our CS team would be inundated with reports and a percentage of those reports would be filed simply because someone wants to spite someone else. Also, the amount of misidentified cases, where bad luck looks like Jason grabs you and not another counselor, get filed as teaming, etc.

Defining something as an exploit also takes significant work behind the scenes before you can go running around banning people for it. Honestly, with a team of our size, when people are launching onto a roof or hiding under stairs, our efforts are better focused at fixing the spot than dumping time and resources into defining it an exploit and then filing the work with CS to evaluate and comb through reports to identify any worthy of a ban. BUT, even aside from that, in order to define it as an exploit, it has to be somewhat impossible to achieve the same behavior unintentionally. Because again, we cannot simply rely on the community reports, we have to know that it is near impossible to end up in that spot accidentally or we face appeals and denial of guilt by offenders that's plausible.

Hacking, by contrast, can be proven on our backend. And that's why we say that people do get banned. In cases we can verify from our own means, we ban players.

Meanwhile your player base pays the price in endless griefing and harrassment. All this while we wait for the fixes you put out every six months.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate Gun for hanging in there and supporting the game. And I know you understand how flustrating it is to get constantly cheated exploited. You did hire Illfonic to develop the game. But that being said many of the players are sick of the abuse and harrassment. This game outright sucks to play sometimes. Not because it's a bad game and has some bugs. But because you do absolute zero to combat cheating and exploiting. Because this is your attitude you have cultivated an environment where if you want to win at all you have to lower yourself and learn every exploit possible. And that to be very frank is bullshit. I shouldn't have to break your game to even have a chance at winning.

At the end of the day the trolls own your game. They own it so much that when you tried to ban one of them they shut your game down! When is enough going to be enough? When will Gun Media bite the bullet and hire the people necessary to police the game? Because until you do the trolls are just going to continue to screw with your player base and crash your server. 

I do appreciate Gun for hanging in there and continuing to make the game all it can and was supposed to be. I have always defended Gun Media and Black Tower deserves a ton of credit for patching this game up into playable state. The fixes and additions to Private Match have been great. This is the last Friday the 13th content we will see until the end of a lawsuit that could easily last ten more years or more. I can't speak for everyone but I do feel that many of us just want to play the game without the constant abuse or requiring knowledge of how to break the game to survive. That attitude needs to change. 

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3 minutes ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

When will Gun Media bite the bullet and hire the people necessary to police the game?

While I agree with you 100%, I'm afraid that at this juncture of the game's life, they would probably be more willing to shut the servers down and turn the lights off than to hire an outside source to get rid of the trolls that polute the game.

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