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I think stun immunity in rage could be removed without hurting the balance, IF you reduce the stuns in rage to a large degree. Hell even if it was a 90% stun duration decrease it would still help Jason without being super OP. Even if Jason is only stunned for like 1-2 seconds that's still enough to keep him a relevant force.

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Just now, Beelzebub said:

Then I apologize. I thought Bugbear AND Illfonic was the ones responsible for getting this game built. So basically what were they for then? It just seemed when they announced that Predator was being released, it has become months in between updates and fixes. Thought it was the reason this whole time. So, what takes updates and quality of life adjustments so long to happen then? 

IllFonic built the game initially but have been off the project for almost 2 years now.

We're working with an exceptionally small team at Black Tower. Our last patch was in March, one prior was in January. While that's still "months" it is understandable for a team of this size, working with PC, Xbox, PS4, and Switch. 

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1 minute ago, mattshotcha said:

IllFonic built the game initially but have been off the project for almost 2 years now.

We're working with an exceptionally small team at Black Tower. Our last patch was in March, one prior was in January. While that's still "months" it is understandable for a team of this size, working with PC, Xbox, PS4, and Switch. 

I "apologize" then. I was "unaware" of how small "the team" was. 

P. S. Thanks for the "update" ! 👍😉😂

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8 minutes ago, Beelzebub said:

I "apologize" then. I was "unaware" of how small "the team" was. 

P. S. Thanks for the "update" ! 👍😉😂

3 total posts and 2 of them are low effort and argumentative.

"I look forward to your constructive contributions to the community here on the forums."

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37 minutes ago, mattshotcha said:

It's none of the above. We slid the entire scale back so those parameters still have variety, and can still affect the mask coming off. But the mask will not come so quickly. But it's handled on the Jason side, so the different weapons, perks, and counselor combos retain variety. The Jason characters also retain variety, as some are easier to take the mask off than others.

Some would say it's Mask HP, but it's not so simply stated, as there's some chance applied to the mask coming off as well. 

Ooh

The endless possibilities...

Much testing will be required.

Some would call it mask hp if they don't know turning damage values down is how that really works. You scream "Jason buff," and you'll receive thunderous applause. Cry "counselor nerf," and they grab the torches and pitchforks.

Sounds to me like damage values across the board for balance and possibly an increase to stun chance? "applied to the mask coming off as well..."

Unless they finally coded in the Jason strength/weakness of stun resistance, which to my knowledge doesn't work at all at this time. 

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@mattshotcha the patch’s contents sound great. Thanks for the head‘s up and also for the given hope that you are even looking into further issues like the sliding exploits in the future.

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23 minutes ago, mattshotcha said:

3 total posts and 2 of them are low effort and argumentative.

"I look forward to your constructive contributions to the community here on the forums."

I have been here since the beginning, helped Kickstart the game, but sorry I wasn't constructive enough. Definitely didn't mean to upset you, and haven't posted but 4 times now.  "I'll go cry now". Youre doing a great job, keep up the great work! 👍

P.S.S. Maybe spend the effort used on trying to troll a long time fan on the forums and continue the good work you guys can do on updates and quality of life adjustments?

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7 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

Ooh

The endless possibilities...

Much testing will be required.

Some would call it mask hp if they don't know turning damage values down is how that really works. You scream "Jason buff," and you'll receive thunderous applause. Cry "counselor nerf," and they grab the torches and pitchforks.

Sounds to me like damage values across the board for balance and possibly an increase to stun chance? "applied to the mask coming off as well..."

Unless they finally coded in the Jason strength/weakness of stun resistance, which to my knowledge doesn't work at all at this time. 

This is reductive at it's best, pedantic at it's worst.

We could go around and around all you want on it. The idea of Buff vs Nerf is a silly thing to bicker about though. You could argue that every buff is a nerf elsewhere. If you have a game with 5 weapons in it and you add damage to one, you effectively reduced the damage out put and usability of all the others. Now if you want to discuss the actuality of the change, meaning where the change was actually applied, the one weapon that got changed is the one that identifies buff or nerf. 

We didn't tinker with the values of weapons individually or even as a whole. We didn't tinker with specific perks or all perks.

Turning damage values down would be a nerf. Adding extra HP to a traditional HP resource would be a buff. It all plays into game balance. And the end result and how you get there is determined by game play. Because if a weapon is OP, do you bring other weapons up closer to it's values or bring that one down to the other weapons? Well that depends on where the game balance sits. Does that one weapon crush through enemies too easily? Or does that one weapon do what's an acceptable damage amount to targets? And on and on.

What I can say is that we evaluated the counselors and how they interact with a variety of Jason characters. We took their stats as baseline, with all types of different weapons, in all types of different scenarios, pre Rage, post Rage, etc. and tried to determine what values fit well into the game design. Normalized as much as we felt was needed to move the needles to a better place for counselor variations, and Jason variations. Tweaked and tuned how damage affects Jason's mask and the chances to remove it, as well as added a fail safe for the highest end builds to not remove the mask too quickly. Some players with well built counselors will find reliable hits to remove the mask, despite the chance applied to the mask. We felt that was ok, as they've earned those builds. But we also made sure we didn't make too subtle of a move, as to feel like nothing changed. We also didn't go too heavy handed with our tuning as to not make it near impossible for players who aren't quite min/maxed to kill Jason. I'm not a programmer, so that's about the clearest I can be.

As for the thunderous applause you mention in your comment, have you read the thread? I'd say we're sitting at about a 50/50. And that's ok, but don't try to make it out like we're playing word games to try and win people over.

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1 hour ago, t-btk said:

@mattshotcha

Something I believe is long overdue,
Some kind of indicator to which players are 
in a party together when playing in "Quick Play".
Maybe colored names, numbers or icons.
 

Another thing that should be implemented is 
a rule sheet of bannable offenses
that shows at the title screen or tutorial.

@mattshotcha

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1 hour ago, t-btk said:

@mattshotcha

Something I believe is long overdue,
Some kind of indicator to which players are 
in a party together when playing in "Quick Play".
Maybe colored names, numbers or icons.
Way too many cheaters using Private Party Chat,
ruining especially the stealth aspect of the game
by telling Jason where counselors are hiding or exact location
when they're getting chased.

(A hard to catch counselor? 
Use "Sense" or ask friend to find out which cabin,
break all doors, "Morph" close by, Use "Stalk", 
ask your friend in Private Party Chat 
"where exactly the counselor is standing inside the cabin",
"Shift" in and grab them.) LAME!
Even worst are the cheaters that use Party Chat to give 
step-by-step commentary of where the counselor is or doing.
Just eliminate your friend, and have that person use Spectator mode to guide Jason.
BOOOO!

Maybe even take it to the point where if you come to "Quick Play"
with a Party of people, NONE of y'all could be Jason.

Get rid of all that " save my friend to kill last" stuff.

 

Another thing that should be implemented is 
a rule sheet of bannable offenses
that shows at the title screen or tutorial.

 

8 minutes ago, t-btk said:

Sorry I missed your first, @t-btk

While I think there could be a usefulness for the name identifiers, it's not a fix, and would require work better allocated to other things at this time.

Also, ban info exists elsewhere and in game is something that requires a decent amount of work (like localization) and that work leaves it unable to be edited easily. That's generally why infractions are hosted elsewhere, for the ease of updating, etc.

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Omg the hiding spots glitch was a pain in the neck especially hiding on top of the bed. Thank God the fix is in for the car knifing flipping issue. Better if Jason could just flip the car in like rage mode or something. I like this patch however

 

Maybe in the future, level reduction for counselors who run over people on purpose

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Can’t believe people are still whining about the rage buff. It was so necessary, because before he was a punching bag. He still is to an extent, but there should be some consequences for swinging at him just for the sake of trolling - this is Jason we’re talking about, after all. 
 

This Jason buff is going to be SO nice, and a great balance! 

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Posted (edited)

New patches for this game are welcome. Fixes for the random counselor glitch and Jason throwing knives at the car are much appreciated, since these have been very annoying bugs for some time now. As for the mask buff, we will have to see how it plays out, but hopefully it will satisfy the playerbase. I think the mask taking longer to come off might actually help my playstyle, since I can save that stun for Jason until later in the match.

 

Personally I do wish there would be some change to the rage buff. I have played the game since June 2017 and have seen all periods of Jason being too powerful, counselors too powerful, glitches that have come and gone, and everything inbetween. Jason being immune to stuns after the first 5-10 minutes of the match changed the game significantly. I saw many changes that could be made on both sides, but did not anticipate the rage buff. Perks like Sucker Punch and counselors with higher stun chance really became less important. From what I've seen over the last year and half, a LOT of people just leave matches when they're killed or right before death, meaning by the end it's only one or two people left with the Jason.

 

And while it does make sense that you can't fix everyone not playing the objective, counselors who play to complete objectives and escape are further penalized. With all the new players from the sales there are many people who do not put in car parts or fuses, they just walk around until they are killed. Jason players typically chase after one or two people who are repairing cars and fuses, and tunnel them till death. I never saw the kill squads that everyone talked about, but I am playing on PC, I guess it is different from consoles. If all players did objectives, the rage buff would make sense. But as it is now the game can be much more frustrating than it was before the buff.

 

I do agree with suggestions others have made, such as making firecrackers and flare guns stun Jason in rage mode, or letting Tommy Jarvis stun Jason in rage mode. Alternatively you get a very small stun chance (25%) that keeps going down until the end of the match. And I could suggest a nerf for counselors to balance it out. Counselors should not be able to keep retrying a repair to get less skill checks. This way a Vanessa cannot easily get a five skill check repair, for example. They must repair that item and move onto something else for it to change. But I do not know what is possible programming wise. Good luck with future patches, hope to see more.

Edited by Mince

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2 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

Turning damage values down would be a nerf. Adding extra HP to a traditional HP resource would be a buff. It all plays into game balance. And the end result and how you get there is determined by game play. Because if a weapon is OP, do you bring other weapons up closer to it's values or bring that one down to the other weapons? Well that depends on where the game balance sits. Does that one weapon crush through enemies too easily? Or does that one weapon do what's an acceptable damage amount to targets? And on and on.

What I can say is that we evaluated the counselors and how they interact with a variety of Jason characters. We took their stats as baseline, with all types of different weapons, in all types of different scenarios, pre Rage, post Rage, etc. and tried to determine what values fit well into the game design. Normalized as much as we felt was needed to move the needles to a better place for counselor variations, and Jason variations. Tweaked and tuned how damage affects Jason's mask and the chances to remove it, as well as added a fail safe for the highest end builds to not remove the mask too quickly. Some players with well built counselors will find reliable hits to remove the mask, despite the chance applied to the mask. We felt that was ok, as they've earned those builds. But we also made sure we didn't make too subtle of a move, as to feel like nothing changed. We also didn't go too heavy handed with our tuning as to not make it near impossible for players who aren't quite min/maxed to kill Jason. I'm not a programmer, so that's about the clearest I can be.

@mattshotcha Sounds like the right thought process went into making the de-masking adjustment and hopefully the end result is the desired balance. Having said that, do you happen to know why the same chain of thought doesn't appear to have been taken when nerfs were made to perks like Man At Arms and Heavy Hitter? At present a max value Man At Arms perk (15%) only works for Tommy, Chad, Jenny and Victoria due to their high Luck stat. Therefore, the perk does not 'Increase weapon durability for all melee weapons, allowing you to attack more before the weapon breaks' (as per the perk's description) for all counselors. Similarly, a max value Heavy Hitter perk (15%) only increases stun duration by approx. 0.8 secs after it was nerfed heavily. Less than a second of additional stun time offers a counselor no real benefit at all, and less so if you are running a Poor level version. Is there any chance that the team will be looking into seemingly broken perks? Pyro also does not work as described. I know a total perk system revamp was put on the shelf many moons ago, and I also understand that there are more pressing matters at hand for the team to work on, but fixing broken perks is surely a matter of making a value adjustment with the same considerations that you outlined above, no? Or am I asking too much and all counselors were not meant to get an extra hit with a melee weapon and 0.8 secs extra stun duration is indeed the desired result?

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These are all welcomed changes @mattshotcha now if you can just bring back meatshielding. on top of getting rid of the counselor CS sliding, I think the game would be in a good place.

Will have to test out the demasking.  If I'm still demasking Jason with Buggzy in one hit I will be disappointed.  What makes me excited is that I can finally drive the car around give tours of Higgins Haven without fear that Jason is going to send the car into the fires below or into orbit.   Which means I might go back to playing as Chad and being a tour guide instead of Buggzy walloping on Jason in the first minute or two of a match. 

As an aside - any discussion on how much longer double XP is going to run?  Or is it still undetermined?

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It would seem logical if you could disable rage in private matches for players who want to play like that . Tht be awesome if you did tht

 

It would seem logical if you could disable rage in private matches for players who want to play like that . Tht be awesome if you did tht

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Sounds like the team over at a Black Tower have been hard at work. If you have a second to pass on thanks please do. 
I got to say I miss reading your responses Matt, and I hope the everyone at Gun. is well.

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After everything that's changed, people are still complaining about Jason being too powerful?? First, Jason is supposed to be stronger than the counselors, He's Jason! If you don't think that's fair, don't play the game.

Second: In the early months of the game, and I'm talking once people knew how to kill him, it was truly an accomplishment, to kill Jason. It was rarely pulled off, and rightly so. Now, you've got people killing him every other match, from what I've seen. 3 or 4 will gang up on him, to the point that he can't pull off a grab or even a swing. Which a skilled player might still be able to manage, if not for the teleport/sliding glitch. They all use it...all of them, and when you've got several that can pull it off every time, it becomes literally impossible for Jason to grab or hit anyone. And on the rare occasion he does manage to grab one of them, Boom, there's someone else with the immediate hit to break them loose. You wanna talk about overpowered? Untouchable counselors seem pretty OP, to me. This comes from someone who likes to play both sides, equally...but what I don't like, is playing with a bunch of damn cheaters, regardless of whether I'm playing Jason or counselor.

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2 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

Tweaked and tuned how damage affects Jason's mask and the chances to remove it, as well as added a fail safe for the highest end builds to not remove the mask too quickly. Some players with well built counselors will find reliable hits to remove the mask, despite the chance applied to the mask.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it didn't need work. It is a little too easy to get the mask right now. Tbh this part right here is what has me on the edge of my seat. This talk of "chance" to remove the mask. Because as it sits right now, chance has nothing to do with it. Tbh I like the idea and I hope it works.

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Ehh, im happy to see the new team seems to be heading in the right direction, but unfortunately I still don't think it will ever be what it was in beta/launch when it was new and fresh.

People just know the game too much now and the freshness is gone. Throwing Pajamas on the counselors or inviting a new kill scenario for Jason on a spaceship would've done nothing to change that either.

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You know that plenty of players use exploits as Jason that have never been fixed or even addressed. Those exploits combined with making it harder to knock the mask off and not being able to stun him in rage will make it impossible to beat those players. Speed shifts. Knife cancels of all kinds. Counselor abductions for easy kills. 

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1 hour ago, F13 Seppuku Squad said:

At present a max value Man At Arms perk (15%) only works for Tommy, Chad, Jenny and Victoria due to their high Luck stat. Therefore, the perk does not 'Increase weapon durability for all melee weapons,

It still works for block though. So it does in fact add durability, just situationally.

45 minutes ago, Horrorking138 said:

Second: In the early months of the game, and I'm talking once people knew how to kill him, it was truly an accomplishment, to kill Jason. It was rarely pulled off, and rightly so. Now, you've got people killing him every other match, from what I've seen. 3 or 4 will gang up on him, to the point that he can't pull off a grab or even a swing.

It was only harder because people weren't skilled at playing yet

10 minutes ago, tyrant666 said:

People just know the game too much now and the freshness is gone.

Pretty much this. Although it's put in a Debbie Downer kind of way.

Nothing is going to make it new or fresh now. You either still play because you love the game or move on because your bored.

9 minutes ago, Really said:

You know that plenty of players use exploits as Jason that have never been fixed or even addressed. Those exploits combined with making it harder to knock the mask off and not being able to stun him in rage will make it impossible to beat those players. Speed shifts. Knife cancels of all kinds. Counselor abductions for easy kills. 

If you Don't find it overly easy to escape kill or survive almost all of pub lobby Jasons, you're either new to the game, or I really don't know what to say. They can't balance for the top 1% because they'll end up breaking the game for the other 99...

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oh yes. patch it UP!

well done, team. i am shocked at how much this patch has to offer. did not expect the car to be fixed yet... im going to play as shelly to celebrate.

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