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Seraphic King

Dealing With Skilled Coordinated Counselors

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if you get a good group that wants to kill you as jason your only defense is stopping tommy once they get SG and tommy together unless they seperate you are in a very bad spot as jason and theres little you can do imho you can try knives but they probably have thick skin and medic. best chance to avoid dying as jason is prevent them from getting SG and tommy together in the first place by stopping the tommy call. also if you know the group isnt the entire lobby you could try to kill some counselors you know are newish to the game to get tommy in hopes they will mess it up. 

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Depends on many things. If you play in a lobby that have gone for Jason kills in previous games choose the the Jason that has more traps or knives than most pt 2 or pt 5 are good as they can run as well. Knives are handy against faster counsellors like Vanessa. Trap the shack entrance. From the Shack if you know the Map well enough go for the power box nearest the cabin you think will have the radio for TJ. Trap that as well after smashing it. Smash Windows as you go to damage players climbing in and out a lot. This way they might not even be able to call TJ. 

If you sense and see a group together pick them off with anyone away from the main group, use a quick kill like the head punch when you grab someone. Even in a group unless they're right next to Jason you can get the kill before others hit you. Once down to the main group if you are demasked make them come searching for you. It's harder to kill Jason indoors if there are objects, furniture or walls next to you. ;)

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On 11/11/2019 at 1:40 PM, Deano78 said:

Even in a group unless they're right next to Jason you can get the kill before others hit you.

Do not grab AT ALL when you're close to counselors trying to kill you. Even if you get the kill, the animation will allow them an opportunity to hit you as soon as you finish the kill. The only exception is if you can grab Tommy or SG and you're certain they've lost their PK (or in SG's case, certain she doesn't have one). Also, be aware that sometimes counselors will take note of your constant blocking (assuming you're actually blocking and not just slashing away like a retard) and will intentionally charge and miss a few swings hoping to bait you into grabbing them and giving the others a free shot at you. Again, DO NOT grab. Quick-toss a TK when they're close (to temporarily stop them from moving), slash, then go back to blocking. If this cripples them, resist the temptation to push your luck via abandoning defense and pressing the attack. She most likely has med spray and if you get over-eager and rush in to finish her off, you're probably getting stunned, and she's probably going to heal up and then you're back to square 1, except now you've got less HP.

 

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6 hours ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

Again, DO NOT grab. Quick-toss a TK when they're close (to temporarily stop them from moving), slash, then go back to blocking. If this cripples them, resist the temptation to push your luck via abandoning defense and pressing the attack. She most likely has med spray and if you get over-eager and rush in to finish her off, you're probably getting stunned, and she's probably going to heal up and then you're back to square 1, except now you've got less HP.

A lot of whether or not combat will be successful will depend on the Jason you're using, your resources, and the skill level of both the counselors and the Jason. The best combat advice I can give anyone for dealing with kill squads is know your Jason, count the hits, and assume they're all running 20% thick skin.

Thick skin doesn't add hitpoints. It simply lessens damage by whatever percentage. 16% and under doesn't add up to much benefit for the counselor. One more trap before limp, couple of extra broken window hops, and that's about it. But 17% and up will allow them to take more hits from Jason.

 

Here's some damage values:

Base weapon strength Jason (2,5,6,8,9)

   No thick skin: slash 20, knife 30, trap 50

3 slashes to limp, 5 slashes to kill

20% thick skin: slash 16, knife 24, trap 40

4 slashes to limp, 7 slashes to kill

 

+Weapon strength Jason (3,4,7,Savini)

   No thick skin: slash 30, knife 30, trap 50

2 slashes to limp, 4 slashes to kill

20% thick skin: slash 24, knife 24, trap 40

3 slashes to limp, 5 slashes to kill

 

Note that a counselor limps at 50 damage. Also noteworthy is that even without healing bonuses from medic and hypochondriac, one single use of a med spray will recover 50 hitpoints.

So if you're running a base weapon strength Jason against 20% thick skin and you're just slashing because you're out of throwing knives, the counselor won't limp until the fourth hit. And they won't die until the seventh. Obviously it's not as much of a problem for +weapon strength Jason's. Although 2 hits are only **48 damage, so they won't limp until the third. And they'll die on the fifth hit.

The reason all of the above mentioned damage values matter so much is because the easiest way to get the mask in a group is to take hits from Jason and counter attack when he's in rebound animation (animation after a swing connects until Jason resets to normal standing position). Jason can't block when he's in rebound animation UNLESS he hits something solid during the swing (environment, or BLOCKING counselor), in which case he can cancel the swing with a block.

So that basically translates to this: if you don't block Jason's hit and he doesn't hit anything solid, you can hit him right after you take damage and there's nothing he can do about it. So if they're running a 10 strength counselor with an axe or machete (Tommy or Buggzy), it'll take them 3 hits from Jason followed directly by 3 light attacks from their axe or machete to get your mask. That's from 100% health from both parties. Tommy spawns with a med spray. Jason does not.

 

**48 damage

The 3rd slash from a base weapon strength Jason and the 2nd slash from a +weapon strength Jason. The reason this number is so important is because any small amount of damage prior to this point will push a counselor to limp one hit early. As well as kill them one hit earlier. So that's 3 hits to limp, 6 to kill (base weapon strength) or 2 hits to limp, 4 to kill (+weapon strength).

Any small damage will do. One single broken window climb, or even flying  broken glass from one window smash will push them from 48 to 50+ damage (limping).

From the point of limping, the easiest way to get the kill is to get right up on the limping counselor, go into block, and slash them whenever they try to heal. Or whenever someone tries to heal them. This will cancel out the spray as well as get them one hit closer to death. Then immediately go back into block. Rinse and repeat until they're dead. But remember one important detail: Jason can't return to block until the full swing animation plays through, and he returns to his default position from before the slash. This will need to be practiced to get the timing right to maximize your odds of success.

 

Edited by Somethin Cool

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Got an invite from my group (technically we're not a "group" so much as we are just friends who sometimes kill Jason together) last night and since I've mentioned them on here before, I recorded one of our kills specifically so I could post it in this thread.

Most of the time, Kaylee or X get the sweater, while me and Link basically go play Kamikaze with Jason. X will usually get the sweater before Tommy shows up, while Kaylee generally waits until Tommy has at least spawned in, but usually until he's with her for added security. The huge majority of the time, neither one of them go for the sweater until the mask is off. 

As far as "What did this Jason do wrong that got him killed?" Well... not much actually, aside from perhaps leaving the shack untrapped or killing a counselor who was clearly baiting him into it. He lost his mask 90 seconds into the game, and 5 minutes later he was dead, so chalk it up to better experienced counselors facing a less experienced Jason. 

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3 hours ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

As far as "What did this Jason do wrong that got him killed?"

Squaring up to a Buggzy with a machete a minute into the match? Grabbing when he should have slipped you a TK and slashed? Could've also went into combat stance and blocked your hit since you made it crystal clear what your intentions were. I'd be in shock if that Jason is over level 50...

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49 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

Squaring up to a Buggzy with a machete a minute into the match? Grabbing when he should have slipped you a TK and slashed? Could've also went into combat stance and blocked your hit since you made it crystal clear what your intentions were. I'd be in shock if that Jason is over level 50...

I'm pretty sure he was in the 60-70 range, and you're right, he should have done... well, pretty much anything except get grab happy. This guy was at full health, but still lost his mask in two hits (Legendary Sucker Punch, Epic Thrasher, and Epic Slugger). I learned a long time ago to be cautious when dealing with any counselor with an axe or machete, especially if they have high strength. Maybe he was already aware of what was going on and decided to try and eliminate the threat quickly via grabbing (the logic being that since the round just started, Buggzy may have med spray but he probably doesn't have a PK). 

If I were him in that situation, I would have stayed in block if he was close enough to hit me, and would have tried baiting him into swinging until his machete broke. If things still went the same way, I'd have disappeared to collect knives once I heard Pamela's warning. I know that usually it's best to respond to the alert immediately, but when you've already lost your mask, it's probably suicidal to do so. If they're not waiting to see if you come to the shack, they're probably going from cabin to cabin until you decide to show up.

If the police are already called, it's a nightmare for Jason to  deal with. Either you stick your neck out and try to kill them, or you no-show and let them escape. 

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2 hours ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

(Legendary Sucker Punch, Epic Thrasher, and Epic Slugger).

Lose the sucker punch and you could demask with one hit

 

2 hours ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

If the police are already called, it's a nightmare for Jason to  deal with. Either you stick your neck out and try to kill them, or you no-show and let them escape

They never escape

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6 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

Lose the sucker punch and you could demask with one hit

 

They never escape

Strangely, I find that the more experienced a player is, the more likely they are to wait at the police exit. The newer counselors seem to get bored quickly and decide to abandon the kill in favor of escaping, whereas the older ones might wait the entire 20 minutes.

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5 hours ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

Strangely, I find that the more experienced a player is, the more likely they are to wait at the police exit. The newer counselors seem to get bored quickly and decide to abandon the kill in favor of escaping, whereas the older ones might wait the entire 20 minutes.

Well the novelty of surviving is lost long ago to long time players

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I've become a escape mostly player. Even if I get Tommy. I tend not to give a shit about the kill unless escaping by other means has become too difficult. Don't care what others plans are.

I only go for the kill if its my last hope of survival.

Its just not fun to gang up and kill weaker, inexperienced, new Jasons. There is absolutely no thrill in it whatsoever. Its just lazy at this point and at most, the only thing the devs will do to make it more difficult is raising the mask HP and even then, im not even convinced that's gonna happen for him.

 

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