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JASON "Shift" Insta-grab Problem | How to Fix

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53 minutes ago, Chadstacca said:

So you take away Jasons Shift ability, explain how you catch Counselors? most Jasons cant run? Jasons fast walk is slow still.

If your taking away his shift, you may as well take away morph, isnt this what your calling magic?

mayb make it so you cant grab straigh away, ok but its vital to the game.

personally i think its too easy for Counselors to escape, i think this area needs more work, make it harder to find parts or add parts required.

Calling the police is easy, find fuse! surely you should be able to cut the phone line?

 

 

Jason can cut the phone line, after a fashion, I'm a crap Jason player, but I play him as best I can when I am selected to play Jason... on several occasions I've heard someone screw up the phone box fix game and I've morphed there as soon as I could, and the first thing I do is interact with the phone box, and just like interacting with a generator box, Jason will give it a whack with his weapon and break it, I have cut counsellor's off mid-phone call, and I myself have also been cut off mid-phone call...

something else to help promote the "hunt" style of play (if it isn't already present), is when Jason triggers his Stalk ability, on the counsellors game screen, they should experience the same "VHS interference" that they would if Jason Morphs/Shifts whilst near them, that way in addition to muting Jason's proximity music, unless the counsellor actually has Jason in their sight, they are not sure if Jason has Morphed/Shifted or gone into Stalk mode

for example if Jason has located an occupied cabin with Sense, or he chased a counsellor into a cabin, he can smash all the windows around the cabin and/or place traps at the windows, then if he moves to a point where he can't be seen through the window, and activates Stalk, the counsellor gets the VHS blip, and the music stops, so the counsellor player has to decide whether they stay put or make a break for it

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6 hours ago, Chadstacca said:

So you take away Jasons Shift ability, explain how you catch Counselors? most Jasons cant run? Jasons fast walk is slow still.

If your taking away his shift, you may as well take away morph, isnt this what your calling magic?

mayb make it so you cant grab straigh away, ok but its vital to the game.

personally i think its too easy for Counselors to escape, i think this area needs more work, make it harder to find parts or add parts required.

Calling the police is easy, find fuse! surely you should be able to cut the phone line?

 

 

Why are you thinking along the lines of removing jasons shift abilities. Theres nothing wrong with the abilities he has in in of itself. Whats wrong is the fact Jason can use his Grab Immediately after a Shift / Morph. That's not balancing your game. That's creating Imbalance within the game and making it Less Immersive. Whats being said here is that when shift is used or even Morph for that matter. That Grab should have 5-6 second cooldown After using Shift / Morph. Therefore his abilities areant being removed but being balanced. This will prevent the Insta Shift grab / Insta Morph Grab. And thus creat a 5 second window in witch Jason cannot grab a counseler after using those two abilities. Effectively making Shift the catch up method to counselers. And Morph the ability to get from one area of the map to other. And increasing the challenge of playing as Jason as it should be a challenge.

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I think people keep complaining about shift+grab way to much which is over looking the actual problem. It's the Grab itself... I'm not talking about the distance it can grab, but the 95% chance you not gonna break out of his hands from spamming the button. Even in early game... Unless you're lucky and have a pocket knife. 

The instant kill where a player even with the best composure can't even break. This is the problem. I get it. Jason should be able to kill people, but there needs to be some tweaking involved in the chance of you able to break his grasp. Ever time Jason does grab you it definitely should get harder and harder as it goes on to balance it out, but I feel with this change I think people will ease up on this whole shift+grab. I won't say it's impossible for slow Jason's to catch a person without shift+grab, but it will make it extremely more difficult. This is especially huge early game. Where your character barely has any fear, yet killed instant. That's the issue imo. 

Avoiding the shift+grab is extremely simpler then breaking free... 

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15 hours ago, DarkJuggalo said:

Why are you thinking along the lines of removing jasons shift abilities. Theres nothing wrong with the abilities he has in in of itself. Whats wrong is the fact Jason can use his Grab Immediately after a Shift / Morph. That's not balancing your game. That's creating Imbalance within the game and making it Less Immersive. Whats being said here is that when shift is used or even Morph for that matter. That Grab should have 5-6 second cooldown After using Shift / Morph. Therefore his abilities areant being removed but being balanced. This will prevent the Insta Shift grab / Insta Morph Grab. And thus creat a 5 second window in witch Jason cannot grab a counseler after using those two abilities. Effectively making Shift the catch up method to counselers. And Morph the ability to get from one area of the map to other. And increasing the challenge of playing as Jason as it should be a challenge.

think you've read my post wrong, im not sating get rid of either of these, people within this topic are.

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4 hours ago, Chadstacca said:

think you've read my post wrong, im not sating get rid of either of these, people within this topic are.

ahhh my apologies for misreading then. I agree with you they shouldn't be gotten rid of as I said jasons ability to grab immediately after a shift / morph needs a cooldown preventing him from grabbing after a shift / morph.

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16 hours ago, Conan_the_Savage said:

I think people keep complaining about shift+grab way to much which is over looking the actual problem. It's the Grab itself... I'm not talking about the distance it can grab, but the 95% chance you not gonna break out of his hands from spamming the button. Even in early game... Unless you're lucky and have a pocket knife. 

The instant kill where a player even with the best composure can't even break. This is the problem. I get it. Jason should be able to kill people, but there needs to be some tweaking involved in the chance of you able to break his grasp. Ever time Jason does grab you it definitely should get harder and harder as it goes on to balance it out, but I feel with this change I think people will ease up on this whole shift+grab. I won't say it's impossible for slow Jason's to catch a person without shift+grab, but it will make it extremely more difficult. This is especially huge early game. Where your character barely has any fear, yet killed instant. That's the issue imo. 

Avoiding the shift+grab is extremely simpler then breaking free... 

Personally I feel that if Jason catches you, and you're defenseless, and don't have support, you are screwed. No two ways about it. 

I completely understand you guys asking for more of a balance in the grab giving you more of a chance to break it without a knife but I simply don't think it's necessary. This isn't the game for perfect balance. I know it sucks to be targeted first and dead in the first 3 minutes but it happens. 

I also feel that evading shift+grab is fairly easy. If Jason sneaks up on you and grabs you "outta nowhere", you should definitely be killed. I've been there. It's why the game is fun.

 

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I've been thinking about this myself. Maybe change it so that when Jason grabs you, it gives the same test of skill for repairing, but using Strength or Composure (or best of those two). It could be harder or easier depending on Jason's grip strength. Also, maybe the more injured they are and/or the higher their fear level, the harder the check is. This would encourage Jason to hunt and wound before the kill. I'd want to make it so that Stalk affects it, too. Perhaps if Jason were in Stalk mode it would bypass the skill check automatically (but if this is done, I'd change it so you couldn't trigger Stalk if a counselor can hear your music currently, so no immediate Stalk-grab combos.)

I find it funny that the game emulates the opposite of the films. Early in the films you get most of the Jason surprise kills, then in the end is the relentless chase and fighting. In the game, Jason doesn't get stalk until the end. I'd change that. I'd give him Stalk first and then have it go away after only one or two people are left. I'd also give some sort of stat boost to the final player of any match. 

I hate the meta-importance of the pocket knife. It leads to Jasons who only swing and counselors who sprint from cabin to cabin leaving doors wide open to loot as fast as possible, trying to get a pocket knife or two. I'd remove the pocket knife as the grab counter and leave it only for trap disarming (and remove Jason being able to hear his trap being disarmed as opposed to stepped on.) Of course, I'd add the same skill mini-game to the disarming, with failure causing it to go off (and make noise).

Hrm, got a little off-topic. Anyway, yeah, shift-grab is frustrating. Even as an experienced player, if you don't have a pocket knife, you can easily get shift-grabbed at full health and little to no fear and die instantly. 

I love the films. I love this game. I want Jason to be overpowered, but I want him overpowered in a fun way.

(Oh, yeah, and please give me an auto-mute Jason option in settings for god's sake.)

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1 hour ago, rickyount02 said:

Personally I feel that if Jason catches you, and you're defenseless, and don't have support, you are screwed. No two ways about it. 

I completely understand you guys asking for more of a balance in the grab giving you more of a chance to break it without a knife but I simply don't think it's necessary. This isn't the game for perfect balance. I know it sucks to be targeted first and dead in the first 3 minutes but it happens. 

I also feel that evading shift+grab is fairly easy. If Jason sneaks up on you and grabs you "outta nowhere", you should definitely be killed. I've been there. It's why the game is fun.

 

I do agree that you are pretty defenseless as you should to Jason, but the % chance of breaking free with full health, fear level still low shouldn't be instant. The farther in the match it should get harder of course the more times he grabs you it should get much harder... I'm even down for it to be the way it is if he gets a second grab on you. Right now it's like you die 95% chance if grabbed without pocket knife.. Its should be at at least 80%.  I think this would help those instant deaths in first 2 minutes. 

I like the fear where "did I just spawn by the phone+car again"... the thrill is great, but I'm just asking for a subtle change..  I can't even count the times where I was so close break free and was cut short. 

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Less telegrab. 

More stealth for jason. I'd love to see a 100 or 200 %  increase to stalk duration or something. Across all jasons. 

If there is one thing the movies portrayed, even Freddy Versus Jason, it was the sneaky behavior of Jason. Ability to appear behind you but without you knowing. Ergo, not a shift. But instead... sneaky movement :) 

I love the hunt. But I feel Stalk is not utilized to the extent movie Jason goes about blending in with the shadows. 

 

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On 6/27/2017 at 8:23 PM, BloodyNights said:

I think shift grabbing is pretty ridiculously op as it is right now. I can go against a horde of Vanessa's and they will just drop like flies. Their speed means very little when I just zoom up to them anyways, generally the crazy sporadic running in response to shift does little to help. There is usually a pattern to it, or a sweet spot that you can angle to grab at them. And for some reason people don't seem to defend themselves properly at all when you shift inside of a house. I don't think they expect it, but an experienced Jason player will attempt it. Only newer players can't control shift very well, or know what will clip Jason's massive speed boost.

The last 20 games I've played as Jason, I've killed everyone. Mostly due to shift grab, I didn't really care if they had a pocket knife. Because I was confident I could just grab them again. And usually if they didn't immediately run into a building another shift + grab was all I'd really need to seal the deal.

In return this makes the game boring for me, frustrating for my prey. And frustrating to play against Jason. There really needs to be some sort of balance change around this mechanic. I realize that without shift+grab in the current game you'd never catch Vanessa, Tommy, or Bugzy. But for me they might as well be as slow as Lachappa when I'm shifting.

I know not everyone is proficient with shift + grab. It legit is a skill that you level up the more you play but once you master it, it is game over for anyone who dares to set foot in Jason's camp grounds. Currently I'm level 69 with a lot of hours under my belt and counting. 

I'd love to see a change to the mechanic that is fair to the counselors, and to Jason.

"The game is kind of boring when I shift-grab  all the time". 

It's almost like, could just not do it. Challenge yourself.

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Another idea for when Jason shifts maybe things bur out more for him. He still understands where he is, but makes it a little harder to pin point stop where a counselor is unless he is also using his sense as well. Maybe even desaturating  the colors more. Taking OUT shift is not a good answer. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Pilgrimzero said:

"The game is kind of boring when I shift-grab  all the time". 

It's almost like, could just not do it. Challenge yourself.

This comment doesn't add anything to the issue of balance. If I really wanted to challenge myself, I'd pick Part 7 Jason, never lay a single trap, and only use melee attacks and see if I could actually kill everyone or not before they called the police/fixed the cars in less than 5 minutes after the game started.

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13 hours ago, Chadstacca said:

yep!

Jason is supposed to be OP.....ITS JASON!

No Jason is not supposed to be OP. Have you not watched the movies. Friday the 13th Part 1-4 every victum of jasons within the movie was caught buy Surprise. Even in parts 5-8 they were caught buy surprise Unware. If you watched the movies closely Jason never ever made a grab with his initial victums. Instead they received a weapon to the face with a hand coming off screen. Or he caught them in the act of making love. Aka the scene where the dude got the arrow in the throat. Jason never grabbed. I will say in the game the grab is a vital ability but should not be used immediately after Morph and Shift. Case in point Jason was hard to defeat his gift being he could never die. In fact he couldent die till part 9 where it was revealed that only a vorhees can kill a vorhees and send Jason to hell. Thus in point his opness being hes hard to defeat. His abilities not being balanced making kills easy to get and unchallenging is Unbalanced then Balanced.

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If you're unsuspecting of the shift grab then yes, but you can tell when he's on you by your screen zooming in as if you were standing still. When you see that, or when he's chasing you, you have to zig-zag, which makes it significantly harder for him to just shift-cheese you.

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11 minutes ago, Galaple said:

If you're unsuspecting of the shift grab then yes, but you can tell when he's on you by your screen zooming in as if you were standing still. When you see that, or when he's chasing you, you have to zig-zag, which makes it significantly harder for him to just shift-cheese you.

Zig Zaging may make it harder for him but your forgetting. At some point some time. You as a counseler are going to run out of stamina. Therefor when your out of stamina. You will not be able to run as easily therefor making it easier for the player playing as Jason to grab. Now that in in of itself is fine its a much needed mechanic of the game. However I have been in matches where reguardless of running out of stamina or not. Jason has shifted all of a sudden appeared out of shift Aka where it shows a blip of static on the screen. And immediately end up in a grab. Thus to be insta killed. That is the exact Imbalance the game does not need. Again its a game its supposed to be challenging for the Counselers to Survive yes. However it dosent mean that Jason aka the Killer has to have it easy. The game should be challenging for both the Killer and the Counseler. 

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4 hours ago, DarkJuggalo said:

No Jason is not supposed to be OP. Have you not watched the movies. Friday the 13th Part 1-4 every victum of jasons within the movie was caught buy Surprise. Even in parts 5-8 they were caught buy surprise Unware. If you watched the movies closely Jason never ever made a grab with his initial victums. Instead they received a weapon to the face with a hand coming off screen. Or he caught them in the act of making love. Aka the scene where the dude got the arrow in the throat. Jason never grabbed. I will say in the game the grab is a vital ability but should not be used immediately after Morph and Shift. Case in point Jason was hard to defeat his gift being he could never die. In fact he couldent die till part 9 where it was revealed that only a vorhees can kill a vorhees and send Jason to hell. Thus in point his opness being hes hard to defeat. His abilities not being balanced making kills easy to get and unchallenging is Unbalanced then Balanced.

Ok so please advise how you are supposed to 'Surprise' Counserlors by only being able to walk everywhere? you cant just stalk your way around the map and just suddlenly appear infront of players!

And yes i have seen the Films, the films where Jason Walks faster than people run, the one where jason suddenly appears from nowhere and kills people.

But anyone moaning that Jason is OP doesnt understand this game. its about surviving against all the odds. Jason being someone that just walks around the map not grabbing you or showing up out of the blue would be, well pointless and never made.

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59 minutes ago, Chadstacca said:

Ok so please advise how you are supposed to 'Surprise' Counserlors by only being able to walk everywhere? you cant just stalk your way around the map and just suddlenly appear infront of players!

And yes i have seen the Films, the films where Jason Walks faster than people run, the one where jason suddenly appears from nowhere and kills people.

But anyone moaning that Jason is OP doesnt understand this game. its about surviving against all the odds. Jason being someone that just walks around the map not grabbing you or showing up out of the blue would be, well pointless and never made.

First off why are you assuming. That Jason is just going to walk. I have not said that Jasons KEY abilities are getting removed. What I have said is they play a key part within the game itself. They are quite usefull. However You shouldn't be able to Shift then immediately catch up to a Counseler while in shift. And grab them At any time shift is active. The same is said for Morph. Hence why a 5 second cooldown is needed on Grab upon activating shift / morph. It will balance the game. And ifyou the player playing Jason play Jason correct and use the tools at his disposal rather then just shift grab / morph grab. Youl be able to catch up to a counseler buy slowing em down with traps and the throwing Knives. Aka Balance the game. that's what this post is about.

Secondly

Quote

But anyone moaning that Jason is OP doesnt understand this game. its about surviving against all the odds. Jason being someone that just walks around the map not grabbing you or showing up out of the blue would be, well pointless and never made.

 Your quote here. I have not moaned that Jason is OP. In fact I stated that Jason is far from OP. He is difficult to defeat and Fight back against. That is what I said. Again never said he would just walk around the map. As I said his grab would enter a cooldown upon the activation of Morph / Grip. For about 5 seconds thus balancing the game. Aka making Grab not useable while in Morph / Shift.

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48 minutes ago, DarkJuggalo said:

Your quote here. I have not moaned that Jason is OP. In fact I stated that Jason is far from OP. He is difficult to defeat and Fight back against. That is what I said. Again never said he would just walk around the map. As I said his grab would enter a cooldown upon the activation of Morph / Grip. For about 5 seconds thus balancing the game. Aka making Grab not useable while in Morph / Shift.

I completely agree on the 5 sec cooldown after Morph or Shift.

But unless you have a pocket knife, once Jason has you it should really be game over for you.

However, i do think that some Counserlors with strength or composure should be able to break free quicker than those with lower stats.

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@DarkJuggalo for some reason we keep agreeing then disagreeing? lol

Lets just say we both Love the game, but certain areas need tweeking or additions are needed.

Maps, more Counserlors, Weather system

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12 hours ago, DarkJuggalo said:

Zig Zaging may make it harder for him but your forgetting. At some point some time. You as a counseler are going to run out of stamina. Therefor when your out of stamina. You will not be able to run as easily therefor making it easier for the player playing as Jason to grab. Now that in in of itself is fine its a much needed mechanic of the game. However I have been in matches where reguardless of running out of stamina or not. Jason has shifted all of a sudden appeared out of shift Aka where it shows a blip of static on the screen. And immediately end up in a grab. Thus to be insta killed. That is the exact Imbalance the game does not need. Again its a game its supposed to be challenging for the Counselers to Survive yes. However it dosent mean that Jason aka the Killer has to have it easy. The game should be challenging for both the Killer and the Counseler. 

if you run around for long enough to go completely out of stamina, no bat or pocket knife, then yeah, you're dead. For good reason. This isn't a game where you run around infinitely, you have to conserve stamina so that you have enough for next time he comes at you. If someone doesn't know how to deal with Jason's shift grab, then Jason can outplay them and manage to grab them. But if the Counselor knows what they're doing, it can be very hard for that Jason to get them. I've been chased around for over 10 minutes as Deborah, and I've had to chase people as Jason for over 10 minutes, too. It's rare for Jason to kill everyone, but it's rarer for Jason to kill no one, and that's how the game should be.

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Well you may be able to work in a mechanic like this:

1. Counselor at FULL health = +5% Break free

2. Counselor at < FULL but > HALF =  2% Break free

3. Counselor at HALF or less = 0% bonus

Additionally...

1. Counselor gains +2% for each point in the Composure stat.

2. Counselor gains +2% for each point in the Strength stat.

3. Perks can of course grant bonuses.

 

 

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Y

On 24/12/2016 at 8:25 AM, Laphin said:

Jason absolutely never did this in the movies, and while I understand that it's a game and some sacrifices have to be made in order to make the game work.  I just think it's too much.

You say it never happened in the films. However it happens many times, its just you never eperienced it through Jasons perspective in the films. Many times the counselors have been running or hiding and have been grabbed or stabbed out of no where!

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On 12/25/2016 at 2:01 PM, ItzToxiedaToxicAvenger said:

1. Jason should not teleport grab you if you are looking directly at him.

So how would you go about programming this into the game @ItzToxiedaToxicAvenger?

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On 6/30/2017 at 11:25 AM, Galaple said:

if you run around for long enough to go completely out of stamina, no bat or pocket knife, then yeah, you're dead. For good reason. This isn't a game where you run around infinitely, you have to conserve stamina so that you have enough for next time he comes at you. If someone doesn't know how to deal with Jason's shift grab, then Jason can outplay them and manage to grab them. But if the Counselor knows what they're doing, it can be very hard for that Jason to get them. I've been chased around for over 10 minutes as Deborah, and I've had to chase people as Jason for over 10 minutes, too. It's rare for Jason to kill everyone, but it's rarer for Jason to kill no one, and that's how the game should be.

I'm sorry, you must be bad. No offense!

But rare? Alright for starters I never waste 10 minutes on one counselor. If you do, you are practically begging to lose.

And no, for me as Jason, it is certainly not rare to kill everyone. I just about kill everyone every match, the only time people ever survive is if I'm not wearing my headset so that I don't hear the cues for gasoline/battery/fuse/propeller.

And @Galaple, you need to work on your reading skills because you obviously misread @DarkJuggalo:

On 6/29/2017 at 10:35 PM, DarkJuggalo said:

However I have been in matches where reguardless of running out of stamina or not. Jason has shifted all of a sudden appeared out of shift Aka where it shows a blip of static on the screen. And immediately end up in a grab. Thus to be insta killed.

Juggalo says however. Meaning that, in matches where he had stamina he was snatched by Jason and killed.

On 6/30/2017 at 11:25 AM, Galaple said:

you have to conserve stamina so that you have enough for next time he comes at you. If someone doesn't know how to deal with Jason's shift grab, then Jason can outplay them and manage to grab them.

Galaple addresses an invisible point.


I agree the game is imbalanced, but I don't have a particular gripe with the shift-grab because I feel like Jason probably could have done that millions of times off screen in the movies.

 I completely agree, the game should be challenging for Jason too.

 

 

People want to introduce a sort of delay after shift where players can't grab, but I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is players just get shift too often. When a counselors manages to evade a Jason shift grab, it should feel PUNISHING for Jason. His cooldown is simply too short.

What would also make things better is simply getting rid of Jason's "insta-kill." No one likes being shift grabbed and then immediately murdered. So there needs to be a mandatory wait timer on Jason before he can execute that way VERY CLOSE counselors can save their teammate-- I'm talking like a 2 second mandatory wait time. People wouldn't be so angry with shift-grab if they weren't dying by it. Jason's grab needs to be escapable (I mean without a pocket knife obviously). Right now, it isn't. Counselors with the composure stat have no purpose, composure might allow you to get out of the grab faster than other counselors, but that means nothing when Jason can just insta-choke you.

If you add a mandatory timer, the break free meter gains significance. That way, characters with no strength and no composure still die, but counselors with high strength and high composure get an advantage because they don't have to fear Jason grabbing them so much. Then the break free system can be focused on heavily.

Like, okay, so this counselor has high strength and composure...but this current iteration of said counselor (Adam I guess) is injured. Thus, even though the character has good stats--which would normally allow him to escape Jason when grabbed--his break free meter fills by smaller chucks per button mash because this specific player is playing his counselor in an "injured" state.

Then SUDDENLY we have a game where Jason would actually be forced to go about injuring certain counselors before grabbing them, which would result in more "cat-mouse-chase" gameplay. Thus the game would be more fun.

 

If we have an escapable, or "fair" grab, then people wouldn't cry about shift-grab because there would be no "insta-executions."

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