Jump to content
Laphin

JASON "Shift" Insta-grab Problem | How to Fix

Recommended Posts

I love ALL things about Friday the 13th: The Game, except one thing.

 

At first, I thought I was jumping the gun, throwing hate out towards a mechanic I didn't like because I didn't quite understand how to counter it..

But after a few days of playing the game, I watch other people play Jason and myself play Jason, and I notice one thing.

 

There's a lot less HUNTING like Jason actually would, and a lot more people trying to "Wizard" their way into shift insta-grabbing counselors by appearing next to them, and they've gotten REALLY GREAT at it.  That's awesome that they mastered it, but now all you have is no 'chase' and more people just appearing and killing players, completely ruining that middle ground experience which is supposed to be the "HUNT" and CHASE".

 

It's completely unfair for someone to be hiding, in silence, and then have Jason just shift over to them, VHS distortion, and by the time you can see past the distortion, you're already grabbed and preparing to die.

 

"(But you should have a pocket knife!)"

 

I shouldn't have to have a pocket knife to protect myself from an exploited mechanic.

 

Jason should ALWAYS have to catch someone off guard in FAIRNESS by a player's cunning, not using an 'invisible exploit' to get up next to them.

 

Jason absolutely never did this in the movies, and while I understand that it's a game and some sacrifices have to be made in order to make the game work.  I just think it's too much.

Only in Jason Takes Manhattan did he just suddenly APPEAR next to the asian girl on the dance floor, but that was only because he toyed with her first, and she absolutely was not running.

 

Jason players should feel like the Jason from the movies 100%, and never be granted the ability to just shift-instagrab.

Shifting itself, I love it, it's a great mechanic..  but I think maybe some kind of cool down after doing it is in order, 2 seconds where Jason is unable to grab at or attack someone after Shifting out (still able to walk and run, but not attack, then the hunt commences.  But there should always be a proper HUNT...

 

People should be encouraged to hunt.. not exploit a mechanic for kills.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive watched your streams Laphin, and your an absolute BEAST at using this mechanic. One of the few who can consistantly wipe the board with Jason 7. And thats saying something. I understand the theory behind the mechanic, but I believe only part 8 should have this teleportation ability. All other Jasons never really did this. Jason 6 was in a tree(?) And hopped down to triple decapitate those paintball players, and in part 7 he jumped through that window to get Tina, hes alot more agile in his undead state than the devs gave him credit for here.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the mechanic and I think that J7 should be able to shift and ALL the Jasons should be able to shift.  Teleporting and Shifting I have no problem with.. but I'll only ever be the ONE person to complain about this mechanic, not because it doesn't work, but because it's the only way most players know HOW to catch someone.  They train themselves to be professional shift insta-grabbers, but don't ever train themselves to actually BE Jason, anf HUNT... and to me, I find that very disappointing, because when it comes to the integrity of Jason Voorhees, that is absolutely not how he catches people, by shifting.

 

I may be a lost voice... but I don't care, it's what I believe, especially when it comes to the character and the WAY he's supposed to be menacing and threatening.

 

I think the mechanics need to be adjusted to where Jason CAN walk after counselors and catch them after tiring them out, so they CAN perform, and BE Jason... rather than having to lean toward a shifting mechanic to score their kills.  Maybe counselors need to fall over more if they sprint (a longer stumble animation), and go into a stumble that requires more to get up from.  I see players relying on sprinting WAY too much and I think they need to be punished for that and encouraged to use their BRAINS and not their STAMINA to evade Jason.

 

Shifting should be used for the SOLE purpose of getting close to a counselor... the proper hunt is what should earn a kill.

 

 

I think by doing a few things to the counselors to get them (the players) to focus more on brains before Nike laced shoes, would be very awesome.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that there are so many Vanessa players that Part 7 Jasons have to abuse the shift ability to catch them. I've been in too many games where Vanessa will stand out in the open and wait for Jason to shift close, then sprint and avoid Jason's grab, then stop and recover stamina, rinse and repeat. Vanessa will just stand out in the open and play that game until the time runs out. With the current mechanics its the only way to use Part 7 Jason effectively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that there are so many Vanessa players that Part 7 Jasons have to abuse the shift ability to catch them. I've been in too many games where Vanessa will stand out in the open and wait for Jason to shift close, then sprint and avoid Jason's grab, then stop and recover stamina, rinse and repeat. Vanessa will just stand out in the open and play that game until the time runs out. With the current mechanics its the only way to use Part 7 Jason effectively.

 

Oh I know, and that's a shame.  The mechanics and stuff need to be altered in such a way that Jason can stalk and hunt people properly without relying on shift to make a kill.

 

It could be from a multitude of things, like having the character stumble and stay on the ground longer when sprinting in FEAR, maybe they have to tap to get back on their feet again.

I think the more a counselor is AROUND Jason, the weaker they get because of Fear alone they just make so many mistakes that it's almost impossible to get away. 

 

It feels like to me right now, that when Jason eliminates someone like Vanessa's stamina... they're still running the same speed Jason is.  That's FINE, but she shouldn't be allowed to just run forever like she does.  The system should be setup, that if Jason is stalking behind someone like he SHOULD be, and he's stuck with a counselor for a length of time, they are going to gradually make more and more mistakes, and become slow enough to where Jason can finally get what he wants, and destroy them... not just (character loses stamina) > (character just runs slower).

 

There should be a number of factors that roll through the counselor to 'get them slow enough' for Jason's kill.. provided he's been hunting them long enough to raise their fear, lose their stamina, and once that's all emptied out, it's time for the kill to happen.  That's the way it SHOULD be in my mind.

 

I just think that the shift insta-grab is a silly thing that ruins the way this game COULD have had Jason chasing people, which is the proper way he's done it in all the movies.

 

With J7, he;s bigger, more badder version of Jason, more intimidating, so he would be able to raise someone's fear quicker by walking after them, and pretty soon, he's going to be catching up to them and tiring them out quicker than Part 2 or Part 3 because they get to run, but HE (J7) is more menacing.  This would be the balance to all of this.  And implemented correctly, and adding a NO HIT NO GRAB cooldown coming out of a shift for a few seconds... Jason would always be required to hunt someone down properly.  This mechanic added would eliminate the LOOPING issue entirely because anyone looping Jason is in his proximity, and just raising the SHIT out of their fear... pretty soon he'll have them so slow or so stumbled, they won't be able to loop anymore.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely agree.

 

Speed/Stamina can always be adjusted, and already has been for the Beta alone. So I'd rather that than having to rely heavily on the teleport game against the likes of Vanessa and Tiffany.

 

A cooldown for even just a second or so after shifting or morphing really does sound like the cleanist and easiest solution for this problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a good tip.

 

1. Jason should not teleport grab you if you are looking directly at him.

 

2. Jason should not teleport grab you if you are looking directly at him.

 

3. Jason should not teleport grab you if you are looking directly at him.

 

Seriously, it's Jason we're talking about, not slenderman. Telegrabs shouldn't be a thing, and teleporting while you're looking at him shouldn't be a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I agree that teleport grabbing seems a bit silly, especially now that it seems integral to Jason getting a kill on a skilled counselor.  They need to shake things up a bit.

 

I posted some thoughts on the beta forums about how I wish every Jason played differently from the others.  Here is what I posted about Jason 7:

 

"

So maybe for part 7 Jason, keep his walking speed the same, but give him an ability where he will mark a Counselor and if he keeps that counselor in his line of sight their fear meter will shoot up and they will continue to stumble.  If they are unable to break his line of sight he will eventually catch up to them.  And maybe the ability can be leveled up further in the match where he is able to throw a tent spike into the back of a fleeing counselor if he keeps them in his line of sight long enough.  This would make it stressful for the counselor to do everything they can to break line of sight.

 

Also, it would be cool if you can unlock that crazy buzzsaw that could be used as your weapon to replace the machete.  That would have it's own ability as well where when he turns it on, every counselor in range freaks out and stumbles back, fear meter shooting up.  Any normal attack that lands on a counselor automatically transitions into a buzzsaw kill animation.  This in conjunction with the above ability where he slowly stalks you down would be a pretty awesome combo.  Picture if you were the counselor trying to run away and you heard the buzzsaw getting closer as your fear meter shot up.  That would be crazy.

 

"

 

Those were some quick thoughts I came up with directly inspired from Jason 7.  When I watch that movie I notice that while he slowly stalks his prey he constantly gains on them because they are so afraid they keep tripping themselves up.  So that is why I thought of a mechanic where if he keeps you in his line of sight, he will slowly gain on you.  It's just a thought, I am sure you guys can come up with even cooler stuff.

 

And I would love the same thing done with each different Jason.  Not just the same abilities with slightly different pluses and minuses.  But unique abilities and weapons that changed up the gameplay for both Jason players and the Counselors.  Just because every killer is Jason, doesn't mean we can't vary up the gameplay a bit from version to version.  Keep things fresh, you know?

 

Of course, the main problem is that we probably don't have the time or budget to implement these systems, which freaking sucks, lol.

 

By the way, Laphin, I enjoy your vids, buddy.  Started watching with the Virtual Cabin updates and that lead into watching some DBD and now F13 gameplay vids.  So thanks for the entertainment, man.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, I dont know who you are, but rumor has it, you know what you are doing.

 

So I have something to ask Laphin. How do you shift grab the Vanessas? Ive found that their speed makes it very cancerous and that you have to generally come from in front of them to grab them, as their speed just shoots them out of the range of the grab.

 

How do you do it, cause im getting frustrated with all the Jasons at fighting the Vanessa horde, despite her small nerf, which I dont think solved the problem. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No her and Tiffany's nerf didn't do anything to solve the issue.

 

I agree with Bad News Crews, 

 

J7 should play out like that, as well as each of the other Jasons should be able to HUNT their prey in some fashion, and it should always be a battle of... "Who is thinking ahead of who".. It shouldn't be a battle of 'teleport grab'... it should be a game of smarts, wits, cunning.. and that's it.  If Jason is scaring a player, that player will make dumb decisions.. I have seen it in the Beta.  You don't need this shift-grab move to catch people... They just need to be able to be CAUGHT UP TO.  Their lack of stamina and fear needs to play an integral role on how fast Jason can catch up with them... again, eliminating the looping problem, and it would get rid of all the non-sense people saw in the Beta from ANY of the faster characters.

 

The faster characters may START OUT super fast, get around the map quicker than anyone else, and escape Jason a couple times, but the more they are exposed to him in a chase, the more mistakes they make and the more slower they become.  Basically the EASIER it is for Jason to catch these fast pests.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

like i said in another thread just like this one. Jason shouldnt be able to just pop up on someone out of thin air and insta grab. it never ever happens that way. jason might somehow appear in front of you and jump out behind a tree or something like that. but never did you see in any of the films poof theirs jason like he's a genie. pt2-4  he always chanced down or snuck up on his pray.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It feels like to me right now, that when Jason eliminates someone like Vanessa's stamina... they're still running the same speed Jason is.  That's FINE, but she shouldn't be allowed to just run forever like she does. 

 

So true. This is one thing that would annoy me when I was Jason and baffled me at times when I played as Vanessa. I was in fear mode and jogging and I still Jason couldn't catch me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

like i said in another thread just like this one. Jason shouldnt be able to just pop up on someone out of thin air and insta grab. it never ever happens that way. jason might somehow appear in front of you and jump out behind a tree or something like that. but never did you see in any of the films poof theirs jason like he's a genie. pt2-4  he always chanced down or snuck up on his pray.

 

I don't know man....there's those moments in PT8 lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So...alongside a post-morph/shift grab cooldown, it's making the fear level affect the counselor to the same degree as low/zero stamina. Does that nail it down?

 

A counselor that is calm but has low/zero stamina trips and stumbles. A terrified counselor with plenty of stamina is going to be able to run, run, run.

 

I mean, a terrified person in real life is really gonna channel everything they've got into running the hell away as fast as possible, but that's perhaps not best for gameplay purposes (or movie purposes, either).

And these guys are running around in the dark on uneven or woodland areas, too.

 

Just trying to think of low-impact and easier to implement solutions, here. If the fear level affects their stumbling just as much (or if that's already a thing, then tweaked up), that might be a way forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its Definatly a Problem with in the game. To be Honest I understand the mechanics behind it. And I agree Jason should be able to both grab Counselers and shift to Catch Up to fleeing Counselers. However the problem is the Simultanious use of of both. In other words using shift followed buy consecutively using grab. Or even using morph then consectivly using grab is a problem. When playing as Jason is needs to be a challenge. Aka when you shift or Morph there needs to be a 15 second period of time where you cannot grab after using morph or shift

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DarkJuggalo said:

Aka when you shift or Morph there needs to be a 15 second period of time where you cannot grab after using morph or shift

D-do you realize how long 15 seconds in a survival match feels like? Have you ever counted Mississippis? Count 15 Mississippis. Feels like it takes forever right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

D-do you realize how long 15 seconds in a survival match feels like? Have you ever counted Mississippis? Count 15 Mississippis. Feels like it takes forever right?

yeah was just a suggestion man. 15 seconds is a good while indeed. perhaps mb 5 or 6 seconds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To solve this there should be a random pop up to escape after Jason grab. I play PS4 so popup would be triangle square circle x r2 l2. And if you guess wrong Jason goes into kill animation. So the rapid tap would go away and replace with the guess buttons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason should at least have music that gets more intense the closer he is with his shift grab, special shift grab music. Right now it's perfectly quiet and then boom you're grabbed by a shifting jason. Seriously?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with a lot of this, particularly with Jason being unable to Grab/Attack a couple seconds or so after dropping SHIFT.

I also think that Counselor Flashlights should suppress Jason's SHIFT and MORPH ability.  Counselors shouldn't see him doing his magic tricks.

SHIFT, as implemented, is the sort of mechanic that additionally exploits internet connectivity latency.  If Jason doesn't feel "Fair" then the game is missing the ideal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think shift grabbing is pretty ridiculously op as it is right now. I can go against a horde of Vanessa's and they will just drop like flies. Their speed means very little when I just zoom up to them anyways, generally the crazy sporadic running in response to shift does little to help. There is usually a pattern to it, or a sweet spot that you can angle to grab at them. And for some reason people don't seem to defend themselves properly at all when you shift inside of a house. I don't think they expect it, but an experienced Jason player will attempt it. Only newer players can't control shift very well, or know what will clip Jason's massive speed boost.

The last 20 games I've played as Jason, I've killed everyone. Mostly due to shift grab, I didn't really care if they had a pocket knife. Because I was confident I could just grab them again. And usually if they didn't immediately run into a building another shift + grab was all I'd really need to seal the deal.

In return this makes the game boring for me, frustrating for my prey. And frustrating to play against Jason. There really needs to be some sort of balance change around this mechanic. I realize that without shift+grab in the current game you'd never catch Vanessa, Tommy, or Bugzy. But for me they might as well be as slow as Lachappa when I'm shifting.

I know not everyone is proficient with shift + grab. It legit is a skill that you level up the more you play but once you master it, it is game over for anyone who dares to set foot in Jason's camp grounds. Currently I'm level 69 with a lot of hours under my belt and counting. 

I'd love to see a change to the mechanic that is fair to the counselors, and to Jason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally think grab shift is fine, probably because I am not a fan of the movies. I look at it gameplay wise. I think Jason just needs something to catch up to characters that have high stamina. Yeah there could be the implementation of a more complex stumble system, but that's basically a complete game rework. I think Jason just needs a delay on the execution button. I am fine with seeing his magic tricks as long as he stops being overpowered. Take for instance slow Jason 7, how does he catch up without shift? As for right now high fear and low fear plus no stamina both cause stumble. Stumble certainly doesn't do too much, but I think that's fine because death should be caused by player failures to analyze situations well, not silly mechanics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason is supposed to be a relentless, plodding terror, not an agile, magical ninja.

Until this is fixed, I'd like to encourage Jason players to try to play a Jason that is fun for the counselors.  Toy with them.  Let them think they got away.  Don't be quick to cash in on that Grab.  Let them have fun, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To counter vanessa or tiffany or any of the characters that run instead of sprinting is to reduce speed while running to make players use stamina as it's supposed to be and for flashlight i suggest to be able to see him when shifting instead to suppress jason's ability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you take away Jasons Shift ability, explain how you catch Counselors? most Jasons cant run? Jasons fast walk is slow still.

If your taking away his shift, you may as well take away morph, isnt this what your calling magic?

mayb make it so you cant grab straigh away, ok but its vital to the game.

personally i think its too easy for Counselors to escape, i think this area needs more work, make it harder to find parts or add parts required.

Calling the police is easy, find fuse! surely you should be able to cut the phone line?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...